thanks so much peggy.. mine hasn't come yet and that answers a big question (tho I was going to get it anywho)

Wow, this is SUCH an awesome thread!

How many people have actually gone through and read the whole article now? I can't wait to try out the leadbeaters mix!

This diet is not complicated at all, it's just different. I realize some of us hate change.... but if it's better for the glider shouldn't we try? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

I hope someone lets Dr. D-L know what a fantastic job she's done and how much we in the pet world appriciate her hard work.

I find this interesting and was already planning on offering live plant materials... and I think this diet makes a ton of sense, but I also think its not something I can reasonably do to a T at least not right away... So at least for now I am going to stick to Ernie's diet, but supplement with plants that are more native to them... I am already growing eucalyptus and acacia from seed (they won't be ready for the animals for awhile) and bamboo from the nursery, and we won't even have our babies until 4th of July weekend. I also grow many flowers, some of which I will have to check and hopefully will be able to feed them... or at least let them play on...

Amie

I am planning on making a trial batch of the leadbeaters in the next couple weeks. My glidesr already eat insectivore fare and love it. I now have to come up with a list of fruits and veggies they can have on this diet who wants to start one with me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tonia, I'll help you out! What kind of fruits and veggies are we looking for? Ones whith 2:1 ratios or something different.

The page in the links section that goes to the retile page is great.... I'll go look for it. It has CA:P ratios for almost every fruit and veg I can think of.

*HUGS*

well the diet doesn't mention veggies but some veggies really are fruits.. so i'm going to try to complie a list of foods that would fall into this category an then go by ratio.

Here's the link I was talking about
Iguana Den Ca:P ratios

i'm not sure if this is getting off topic or not so I will pm you.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Okay, I have read some of her information, and I have a question. Our gliders have 4 teats in their pouch, right? I am pretty sure that is true. If you read in her paper on the first page, where her signature is, it says that they only have 2. Is this a typo, or does she not know this basic piece of information? Or, am I wrong? Cause if they have 4 and she doesn't know that, I am a little leery about trying her diet.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Okay, I have read some of her information, and I have a question. Our gliders have 4 teats in their pouch, right? I am pretty sure that is true. If you read in her paper on the first page, where her signature is, it says that they only have 2. Is this a typo, or does she not know this basic piece of information? Or, am I wrong?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I wondered about the 2 teat versus 4 teat thing too.

lol - you guys are funny!

Even if Cathy did error it is hardly practical to throw away all her info!

Here may lie some of your confusion -

Petaurus breviceps - 4 teats, & Petaurus australis - 2 teats

as i recall she wasn't the only one who wrote the study??? or maybe i am wrong. so it could be that someone else errored too. either way i agree wtih pockets, i wouldn't completely distrust cathy because of that one statement.

I have not been privy to this diet study quite yet, but do know much of Cathy's info has been collected from several Australian publications.
I have been using a diet similar to what she is posting for several years, as many know, I have always preferred to follow as close as possible to my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s natural native diet.

What I will say to a few - I am sure happy you guys are not housing & feeding Koala's, Panda's or Ringtail Possums, just to name a few species (lol)

I am not throwing away the info I have gotten from her, I am just confused. I like having as much info as possible on my babies, and I thought I was wrong.

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
What I will say to a few - I am sure happy you guys are not housing & feeding Koala's, Panda's or Ringtail Possums, just to name a few species (lol)

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Care to expand? Now you have me curious?

Also, Pockets, since I do value your opinion, what do you think the reasoning is for no vegetables?

She is quite aware of Wombaroo, she is actually negotiating to become a distributor of their product line <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> But, she didn't put it in her diet b/c she said it isn't widely available in the US, has to be ordered direct and that takes some time, and she felt if there were complications in getting the materials it would encourage people NOT to use the diet, so she was trying to keep it as simple as possible for now.

Also, great idea you guys to make a list of glider-safe produce, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> and the Ca:P is very important, but please see my previous post as to why fiber content ought to be taken into consideration as well. We should make a list of safe flowers too, http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/alphalist.html so we can give them those while our australian plants are growing...

Ha!
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
(referring to the two teats quoted rather than 4 on female gliders)Even if Cathy did error it is hardly practical to throw away all her info!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
lol <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
It was just something I noticed <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure others would like to take that misprint and run with it though...
I still think her info is great regardless.
Like you mentioned Pockets, it was probably just a little misprint or it was referring to P. Australis.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> STANDING OVATION <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/party.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> to this thread! I never thought I'd see the day when more naturalistic diets would step into a positive light and undergo a general acceptance around here! Hooray to all of GC for the good of the glider!!!

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

not just glider safe produce, but glider safe and can be used with this diet since veggies are not allowed

i am willing to start a list if anyone wants to help <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What exactly are we looking for Tonia? Good Ca:P ratio and low fiber? and they have to be fruits right?

that's what i'm assuming from everything discussed in this thread. i might have some time tomorrow to start putting one together.. not sure what exactly is "low" fiber but i'm gonna try my best. the bf works a late night/early morning shift tomorrow so i have some time to think <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tonia, here is a link you may or may not already have, http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ It will give you the nutritional content of just about anything, including phosphorus, calcium, and fiber. It might help for comparisons.

yup got it... it's in among other links in my three volumes of the glider bible <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Actually you can order the High Protein Wombaroo

HERE

If you call and speak with them, they are VERY helpful and very nice folks.

awesome info, thanks for posting! PM sent.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />Thanks Srlb, she did tell me about wombaroo.com, but it was the "not widely available"/shipped only by a very few suppliers part that worried her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />TMarie & Nihm: Great idea about the list! Maybe I can clear up a few misunderstandings:

Nutritionists consider "high" fiber to be = 5g of fiber/serving. Moderate fiber is 2.5g/serving. "Serving" as defined here is a HUMAN serving (i.e. usually 1 cup) but the amounts are proportionate, i.e. something that has 5g of fiber/human serving is "high" in fiber for suggies even if you only feed them a tablespoon.

We should stay "moderate or less" for our <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> most of the time, but some fruits (apples) are high in fiber and can be fed every once in a while. The diet doesn't say no veg, it says fruits=no more than 5% of dietary intake. So, no matter what we chose to feed, they're not getting much.

"Fruit" is a BOTANICAL term, not a dietary one. (see my last post). There are no common nutritional features that will allow us to group all fruit into "good" and all veg into "bad" categories for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />.

That's why I'm saying produce, b/c many things we may think of as veg are actually fruit: pepper, eggplant, tomato, lima beans, peas (the whole pod is the fruit), corn, squash, peanuts, cucumber, avocado and sunflower seeds. Some things we think are fruits aren't (strawberries), and some veggies have more sugar and less fiber than fruits (carrots are veggies but have less fiber than raspberry).

This is why I said we have to choose based on fiber (low) natural sugar (high) and fat (low), as well as Ca:P and no "spice" (peppers, garlic) instead of titles. The website USMom posted is a great resource for this info!

Hope this helps! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/muchlove.gif" alt="" />

Okay so it should be a list of "produce" that has good ca:ph ratios and is low in fiber? I can look at this this weekend.. I just hope my melons and berries aren't on the bad list

I am curious to see more of these lists as people come out with them, and I have read the entire article.. but not having my gliders yet- they aren't old enough to pick up from Ernie (waves). I find this entire discussion interesting since on the one hand I'd like to give them as natural a diet as possible, but I also want it to be as healthy as possible. Since they will be coming to me used to Ernie's diet (more natural in some ways then bml due to the acacia and bee pollen) I would love to be able to share some of my gardening produce with them though, and am hoping to find out here more about what would be acceptable to them (flowers, etc) I have already tried to start growing some more native plants... and I have a variety of other plants that hopefully at least a few of will prove to be safe for them. I'm off to read the list that was attached... I was starting to research that subject...

Hello Maria
There is only 1 Wombaroo distributor in the USA!
If Cathy Delaney would also like to sell Wombaroo Products, I would advise her to contact Geoff Schrock - []GSchrock1@aol.com[/] or contact me at []tinytracks@austin.rr.com[/] for further info -

I have been feeding Wombaroo HPS for 5 yrs & have never had a problem getting it!
Geoff can & will set her up - if she wishes!