I run a company other than breeding. Honestly people look at it and think well they make alot of money that is an absolute lie. Most mom and pop places barely stay afloat. Profit only comes after they pay all the expenses and usually the expenses outweigh the the incomming money. It is the same with breeding in that respect. Even those that have the colored gliders have alot of expenses in upkeep purchases and other costs involved. I doubt very many of those people actually make a profit. You also have to consider that most gliders only breed for about 4 years. They have to be a year old (or are suppose to be) to have babies and most breeders retire then at about five years old so that is a really short window. So I do not believe that many make a profit they may cover costs but very few profit from it.

everyone keeps saying that all the money made from selling joeys goes to cages and cage sets. not to be rude or call anyone a liar, please dont think im doing that, but a good cage should last you at least 3-5 years, and a good cage set should last a year. one normal grey joey goes for 150, the price of a cage, the second grey joey can buy 2 expensive cage sets premade or enough fleece to make 10 cage sets. if each person sells 4 to 8 hrey joeys a year thats 600 to 1200 a year in sales, minus the 2 for cage set and cage, that leaves you with 300 to 600 a year. thats just people who sell only greys. im not trying to offend anyone, just saying if you budgeted better and bought better stuff then you would make more profit. plus, the cost of breeder gliders and all the food and toys and cages and vet bills is just part of owning a glider regarless of wheather you breed or not.

JMO...
Most breeders on this site are not into breeding and selling their joeys to make a profit. And yes it is a bit offensive for me to hear that if we budgeted better and bought better stuff etc. etc. that we would make a profit. vet bills can far exceed any amount that you would make from breeding ~ you don't think twice about taking your sick glider to the vet or how much it would cost to get them better. I have paid thousands of $'s for toys, materials, and treats for my sugar gliders (this is probibly not even close to the amount that others pay for stuff for their suggies). Any money that I receive from selling a joey supplements what I've paid out or what more I can buy for my gliders. "in it for the money" I wouldn't think so, as a responsible owner and breeder puts a lot more money into it than the amount of money they would get out of it.

sounds like a great plan, Crazy.

However... I currently have my 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th joeys here.

My first, a Buttercream, I sold for $75- because I loved the home she was going to.

The second I kept, because he was cranky. He's calmed down a ton now. But, I didn't want to let a crabby joey go.

2 of the ones here currently are going to a reduced price to a great home. One is a WF, one is a gray. I'm not getting ... what is your estimate? $300?

The other two I'm also selling for reduced prices to excellent homes. The sale price of these two will go a long way towards paying off their father, who I still owe a good deal of money on. I have a second glider whom I owe money on, also. The two joeys I'm selling won't bring in enough to pay both breeders. But - I will be able to make payments, and I'm glad of that!

I could "budget better" as you say. I could sell my gliders at flea markets. I could keep them all in 1 foot square cages. I could buy them cheap pouches, no wheels and no toys. But ... I'm not doing that.

You are extremely naive. And I don't appreciate you implying that my friends and I are either foolish with our money or lying.

Well, my accountant can testify that I haven't made a penny. Even being a larger breeder and having higher end colors for sale is not a guarantee to make money. The money I invested in my gliders was spent when gliders were more expensive. I paid $2500 for my leus, $5000-$6000 for my albinos, $7500 for my creamino, $5000+ for my mosaics and even $1500 for my 100% leu hets. By the time my gliders were old enough to start breeding and producing, the prices for those offspring have dropped significantly. They are continuing to drop. The initial investment was enough to put me in the red for many years. Having a lot of gliders also increases your expenses. I spend around $200 every week for fresh fruits and veggies, never mind HPW, honey, bee pollen, super worms and wax worms. That is just food. I also have the expense of cages, pouches, toys, wheels, etc. vet care is also a large expense. Every one of my gliders gets a yearly exam. That is $75 for each glider.

Eventually, I will come out of the red. I am hoping that by next year I do see an actual profit. It would be pleasant to have a bit of money to compansate for the amount of hours I spend every week cleaning cages, socializing babies, answering emails. There is no way it would ever be enough money to make a living on. That is why hubby and I both work outside the home. Those jobs are the ones that pay the bills.

The one thing that does make me laugh is when someone sees a glider for sale for $2000 and all they see is profit. Do you realize that 30% of that money goes to the government? Yes, Uncle Sam gets $600 of that $2000 "sale", leaving me with $1400. I also have the added expense of my USDA licensing, which requires paying a vet to come to my house every year and paying the USDA their "share" of my sales.

Even when a breeder finally does come out ahead, take the amount of money that they actually take in as profit and divide that into the amount of hours they spend caring for the gliders. I will guarantee you that it is far less than minimum wage. I wonder how many people would truly be willing to work for so little pay?

Well said Alden and Stacie!

Cage sets do NOT last 1 year or I am to picky about my cage sets.

Cages should be replaced when showing signs of rust ASP and they would last about 2 year if they cost 150.00 unless I am doing it wrong.

Just my opion.

Lol Stacie I was thinking the same thing but did not know how to put it I knew you would come and put it in better words... Good posting stacie =]

i shoulda known my comments were gonna get blown outta proportion like that. Stacie, how many gliders do you have that it costs 200 a week to feed them?

JMO, but breeders who have that many gliders cannot be giving enough attention to all of them. its just not humanly possible, and since none of you are making any money then i know you dont have any hired employees to help care for the gliders and play with them every day, unless you have a husband or wife to help. 2 people cannot give 10-20 gliders enough love and attention no matter how good their intentions are. especially if those two people work secular jobs, as all of you say you do.

to the people who took offense to my comments, i started off by saying im not trying to call anyone a liar or offend anyone, so those who accuse me of calling people liars and offending people can only blame yourselves for misinterpreting my intentions. i am not a breeder, and i was trying to give breeders reasons why people say you must be making a profit. i am trying to show you what other people think so that you can better defend yourselves.

michelle, you need better cage sets if they dont last a year. and powder coated cages wont rust as quickly as the pvc coated ones, a powder coated cage should last longer then 3 years.

OMG WOW!

It's the same way for anyone that runs their own business. Whether you are selling gliders or offering a service. Lot's of people think I make lots of $$$ because I teach massage therapy and charge $2500 for tuition. Sure if I get a class with 4 students, thats $10,000, but most of them do a payment plan and a few don't keep up on the payments, which makes me have to go to court to collect and costs $$$. Even if they all paid at once, it would have to be budgeted over the 16 weeks of the session. I have to pay rent on my space, utilities, phone, and books and items for the class. There's not much of a profit when you factor everything else in.

I buy from the best. They just don't last 1 year. Like I said I might be picky too. But I also have only 6 gliders and one room of stuff for them too.I do hand wash mine too. As far as the cage mine is powder coated but I am just now seeing some rust. Maybe I scrub to hard.

Very well put Stacie and Alden! I was just about to make a post regarding our time. I only have a fraction of the gliders that others here have, but I spend quite a bit of time on them, e-mails, phone calls, etc..

I spoke with a person about a glider for easily over 10 hours on the phone educating them. I then refused to sell for various reasons, they honestly would not have been able to provide for the glider the way I feel they should. Their hearts were in the right place though, and maybe someday they will be wonderful glider parents.

But my hourly rate would most likely be considered that of a "sweat-shop"!

I can tell you one thing as a new breeder I have not seen any profit in my first year. Unless you have experienced the responsibility of being a eithical and responsible breeder you have no idea how much it actually cost.

By Cost I am not just talking about $. Although that is a large part of it. Cost to care for each glider who I consider to be my pets first. I don't have my gliders in small cages but in flight cages. I think I have as much fun as they do decorating and watching them have fun in the cages. Cost of making sure each glider has a proven diet and mealies and proper fruits and vegetables. Cost to make sure each has proper vet care, cultures, fecal floats. My vet is not cheap, he is extremely expensive. Ask Peggy she knows everytime I leave his office it cost me $300-$500. I make sure that each and every joey that leaves my home is healthy and well socialized.

Now lets talk about emotional cost. Sleepless nights, joeys that don't make it. As a new breeder every birth of a joey is a wonderful experience, a little nerve racking, as a good breeder hopefully that will never change. Hours cleaning and making sure their environment is safe. The time I spend interviewing and making sure that each glider family is the best suited for my little joeys. Time that I spend answering questions, etc. etc.

I can tell you I have not seen 1 cent of a profit. I still owe some money for my Mosaic. The cost of being a good breeder will never be made up in profits.

The thrill of watching a set of triplets survive PRICELESS.

yes, but what i am trying to say is the cost of cages and vet and food and toys and time spent bonding and cleaning and decorating and the emotional toll of taking care of a sick glider is all there even when you arent a breeder. so the only time you could count those things as breeding expenses is the food and vet and emotional toll for the joeys. the adult breeders are your pets, and therefore the cost of caring for them is just cost of owning a pet.

my chihuahua has never been a breeder, and i have spent well over 1000 on her toys and beds and vet bills and clothing in the 2 years ive had her, and the emotional stress when she is sick (my poor baby is sick now and i sat with her for hours) are just the cost of owning a pet. those costs wouldnt be covered if she had puppies and i sold them for 600, what they would be worth. but those also arent extra costs from breeding her. 600 for a puppy would cover the EXTRA cost of breeding- deworming the puppies and getting the first round of shots would be about 50 a puppy, plus maybe 10 in food before they sell. so thats pure profit of 540 per puppy, and that would leave plenty of room to negotiate a price to send a puppy to a good home. i could sell them for 100 and still make profit. now i know the numbers are different for gliders but the concept is the same. the original breeder cost doesnt count, you chose an expensive color as a pet, which in 5 years or so after you retire them from breeding is what they will be, a pet. you dont get rid of them because they arent "earning their keep". i know all good breeders keep the gliders and love them just the same.

and yes, i have a vey close friend who was an amazing pug breeders, and she did make money.

I've gotta speak against that...

My husband and I are currently caring for 17 gliders and 2 joeys OOP and ALL of them get handled each night! I can get a video clip of hubby chasing his babies around the house as proof if you like!

It takes alot of time and effort, but I can gaurantee you that where there's a will there's a way. You can ask any breeder with that many gliders(or more) and I'm sure they'll say the same thing.

Also, my house is open to people visiting and you can pull out ANY of my gliders and the only one that MIGHT bite you would be Milky Way, but I bought him and his mate as adults and they weren't handled much, but they're coming along nicely and are slowly becoming angels like everyone else.

Heck, just ask Leyna! I brought Gollum with me to her house yesterday and she snatched him right up and even clipped his nails and only one got little nippy(he always does one "taste", not being mean, it's like that's his way of seeing who you are, lol). He never crabbed or got mad or anything and for a moment I thought he was going to go down her shirt for a nap!

Anyways... yeah, I just wanted to say that.

you may hold all 19 everyday, but for how long? and just because a glider is nice doesnt mean they get a lot of attention. i got zoie because her owners couldnt give her enough attention and she never crabs or bites and bonded to us immediately. thats just how she is.

btw nicole, if the 19 gliders get attention everyday that must take up a lot of time. for example if you and your hubby each play with 2 gliders at a time for an hour you can do 4 gliders in an hour. thats 5 HOURS to give the gliders the time the deserve. so how much time do the ferrets and cats get? ferrets need A LOT of time out of the cage to run and explore, and they need supervision to keep them safe. you have to admit someone isnt getting all the love they deserve. and what about work? if you arent making money in breeding you must be working, say 8 hours a day. well thats 13 a day not including commute and dinner. so we'll say an hour to commute and eat (multitask). that only leaves maximum of 10 hours a day to sleep and play with the ferrets and cats and clean up after all the animals and talk on GC and talk to potential buyers.

Some people have cages of 5+ gliders; not everyone has cages of just two gliders. If you have 20 gliders, all in cages of 5, then that would take two hours if the hubby and she did it that way. Some people will hire other people to come in and play with gliders, so that cuts time by a lot as well.

I have 26 gliders, plus 12 babies and I handle each one of them every day! PLUS, I have tent time for at LEAST an hour with half of my 11 cages one night and half the next night (one cage at a time). Granted, I don't work at a job outside my home anymore, I'm disabled now so I can't work, but even if I did, I would find the time to spend with them. I did it before while working and I'd do it again.

Crazy, in case you didn't notice...gliders are nocturnal! Ferrets and cats have me ALLLLL day, then the gliders get us all night! lol

My cats get my attention whenever they want it, so they're not lacking. My ferrets' heater went ka-put recently, so we've had to put them in a cage in the kitchen instead of their big walk-in closet(wah!). I used to let them have run of the sewing room(all fabrics and stuff up off the floor and out of reach, of course, lol) every other day, but now that they're in a cage again hubby has set up an enclosed area in the livingroom that they get to come out and play in every day till they get pooped(usually a couple hours, then they're in a pile asleep and one or 2 are dragging themselves lazily through the tunnel, haha). So, they ferrets aren't lacking.

As for the gliders, it depends on who the gliders are. Some will come out, such as the older joeys, and play with me for an hour straight(although they usually end up asleep in my pocket, lol). Others, such as Milky Way ad Leda and Sysko and Celest will NOT come out and play. They'll just stand frozen and look terrified, lol. So, for them I set up the tent a couple times a week and let them have their own time in there to play out of their cages without me [censored] them out.

I also take turns carrying around different gliders each day. Joeys get bra-time EVERY day from the time they are 2 weeks OOP. And, of course, every morning I pull out each pouch and hand out treats, do once-overs, and give them all kisses and tell them their my little smookums and gives kisses to those that let me, lol.

Then again, maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't work a "job". My job is to make bedding, that's all. So my hours are my own to make.

For ther record, I don't think you would make a $540 profit from selling any kind of puppy or animal for $600. you take into account the cost of feeding the puppies, vet visits, vaccinations, vet appointments for the mother who is pregnant and the nursing, possibly paying a stud fee, paying for puppies that get sick and need additional care, caring for puppies that don't get sold right away, extra nutrition for the mother...if you think about it every last penny goes into caring for the dogs that are bred, and it's no different for gliders. Glider vet care alone is so much more expensive than dogs in many cases, not to mention having to buy their food, pay for shipping, pay for cleaning supplies for the cages, buying new gliders to prevent inbreeding, emergency funds, bedding, toys, food bowls, water bottles, bonding pouches, tent toys...just to namea few things that gliders owners are faced with. People with full time jobs have those jobs for a reason; to pay their bills and take care of their gliders. i don't know about you but if I bred gliders I would put all the money I recieved from selling joeys into caring for my gliders, so I could save the money i make working at my job and put it towards a retirement fund or college for my kids or fixing that leaky roof...And just because people work full time jobs and have 20 gliders doesn't mean that each glider doesn't get all the love and attention it needs and deserves. i work full time for the military and have a 45 minute commute everyday which means i wake up at 4 am and don't leave work until 5pm, don't get home until 6 pm, eat dinner at 7 pm, take a shower at 8 pm and by 830 pm I'm pooped but you know what? I still make my gliders' food and take them out and play with them for at least an hour after that so if I don't get to sleep until 1030 or 1130 at night, then that's a sacrifice that i willingly make to ensure the happiness of my gliders. I even stay up late to play with my beta fish because he likes to get petted!! life is all about sacrifice and if it means sacrificng a couple of hours of sleep to make sure everyone gets played with and is happy, then I'll do that, and I'm sure every other good person here would do exactly the same.




Sorry for the sort of rant, but I needed to get that out...

Crazytank... How long have you owned gliders? sorry.. I've been on vacation so I dont know you...

Breeding gliders is also different than breeding chihuahuas. Gliders need cages - good sized, fairly expensive cages. vet care is also (typically) more expensive for a sugar glider than typical vet care. You can also get either $150 for a glider or $5,000. BUT you typically get two babies. Sometimes one, sometimes three, but normally if there's three, one of them has to be handraised. Sugar glider breeding is NOTHING like chi breeding. I'm not saying I have experience in this, that's just my opinion on the subject.

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We have some very experienced breeders posting in this thread and some who haven't had the first joey experience picking apart what they are doing and arguing with their posts.

I think it is time to stop unless you are speaking from personal experience.

Ya I think a lot of us are sleep deprived I feel like the glider room is a time warp sometimes. I go in there for a second and hours pass lol

I know I stay up till 2 or 3 all the time and get up at 6 for work :/

It's totally worth it tho, I love all my babies. I have 14 here now and they all get attention every day.

My schedule has been changed to be with my babies. I don't usually go to sleep before 5-6:00am, but I get to sleep in too! LOL

yep gotta be a night owl for these guys !!

well i dont think i was being mean, but since so many people are getting upset and offended and so many mods are getting on my case im just gonna gracefully bow out of this topic. but fyi-its a controversial topic, debates get heated, thats just what happens.

whatever, bye