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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: hwh4ev]
#927965
04/08/10 12:13 PM
04/08/10 12:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843 Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a leu can be a mosaic underneath the leucistic coloring, therefore you can have a glider that BOTH leucistic and mosiac. So a glider that looks leucistic and can produce leus or mosaics. I am not sure who first discovered this or how it was proven, (anyone?) but with several generations of careful pairings you would be able to prove that a glider can be both mosaic and leucistic.
I have my platinum white mosaic 25% leu het "Twilight" paired with a leucistic/possible mosaic "Winter" from Sheila's new line. Their first joeys are almost OOP, they are both pure white- leucistic/possible mosaic under the leu coloring. 50-75% of this pairs joeys should be mosaic, so odds are at least one of the joeys has mosaic hidden under the leucistic coloring.
Sugaree Gliders Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: SugareeErin]
#927967
04/08/10 12:15 PM
04/08/10 12:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843 Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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"mosistic" too funny!
Sugaree Gliders Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: SugareeErin]
#927976
04/08/10 01:10 PM
04/08/10 01:10 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855 Orlando, FL
Tish84
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
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So interesting BeckiT!! She looks like a leu because the white mos I've seen examples of have the spotted ears. If she does turn out to be a "mosistic" that'd be soo cool.
TISH Lana (Siberian Husky) 2 Turtles Bunny Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day) www.fancysuggies.com
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: Tish84]
#927977
04/08/10 01:21 PM
04/08/10 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
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Florida, USA
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Erin,
I know what it is that you are talking about... someone did post saying that a Leu proved to be a mosaic as well.. wish I could find that post now!
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: oakley]
#927988
04/08/10 01:51 PM
04/08/10 01:51 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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so two MO's could potentially produce a leu... Just want to clarify this. Two MO's COULD potentially produce a leu but ONLY IF the MO's are also leu hets. If there isn't leu in both family trees, then no, they would not be able to produce the leus. We do know that leus can mask the mosaic, just as leus can mask wf. (pairing a leu with a grey and getting a wf means the leu is also a masked wf).
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: oakley]
#927989
04/08/10 01:52 PM
04/08/10 01:52 PM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402 Michigan
gliderma
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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I am still trying to understand all the genetics, too, but am curious how you would know a leu is a mosaic "underneath"? The only way would be that it would prove out in joeys with no mosaic in the lineage, correct? If a "leu" has other colors, it would be a mosaic and not a leu if I understand it correctly? And where does the "super" come in? This is all the more reason for a standard being made for all the colors, so there is no confusion and everyone is on the same page with what they have and can produce, in my opinion. Sure wish someone would publish a paper on glider genetics!
Lynn Martel 616-272-4374 989-400-5686
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: gliderma]
#927994
04/08/10 02:03 PM
04/08/10 02:03 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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am curious how you would know a leu is a mosaic "underneath"? The only way would be that it would prove out in joeys with no mosaic in the lineage, correct? If you take a leu/possible masked mosaic and pair it with a grey and get a mosaic joey, then your leu is also a mosaic. But there is the chance that the leu is really a white mosaic though that chance decreases with the family tree. It seems that the leu coloring is stronger than the mosaic coloring so can "mask" the mosaic.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: Dancing]
#927999
04/08/10 02:39 PM
04/08/10 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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Dancing,
I've got a female like that right now...
She is either a leu masking the MO coloration, a white MO, or just a leu... Her parents were very low leu hets if I remember correctly, so she is probably a white MO or a leu that is masking the MO markings.
She is from Judie Hausmann and I have her with a gray from KDR. She has joeys IP so I'm very excited to see what I get!
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: oakley]
#928001
04/08/10 02:46 PM
04/08/10 02:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Is one of her parents a mosaic? If not, she isn't a mosaic.
If she is a leu, being with a grey, she won't produce leus so if you get white, you know you have a mosaic! (or masked mo)
I think this uncertainty is why I have no desire to pair leu with mo. I guess I want to be sure what my joeys are. (besides cute)
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: Dancing]
#928003
04/08/10 02:50 PM
04/08/10 02:50 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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Yep, one of her parents IS a mosaic... neither are leu if memory serves... I just PMed Judie about her lineage.
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: Dancing]
#928073
04/08/10 06:11 PM
04/08/10 06:11 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224 North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
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Didn't someone recently have what they thought was a Leu throw a mosaic joey? Meaning that the parent glider is actually a white mosaic and not a leu after all? I think there's starting to be quite a few leumo's out there that people don't know what they are until they start producing but even then, it's still hard to tell. And if they keep paring them with leu hets, then the questions of leu, white mo or leumo will continue. Kara's lil boy Burl from Alicia, looks like a leu but he had a mo & a wfb in his first set of twins. Then there's their new baby, the little girl I'm getting, she could be leu or could be mo or maybe the leumo- but unless she starts to color up, we will never know. With Karin's, they are leu het's with the dad being a pretty low percent. Last I read I think she was thinking leu but...
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: jacknsally]
#928087
04/08/10 07:02 PM
04/08/10 07:02 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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It get's pretty confusing when you start to factor in the possibility of gliders looking like one thing, and being able to produce another!
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: oakley]
#928226
04/09/10 09:34 AM
04/09/10 09:34 AM
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NGS
Unregistered
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NGS
Unregistered
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All this is discussing the "genotype" theories. Anyone considered the "phenotype" theories?
A phenotype is any observable characteristic or trait of an organism: such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, or behavior. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and possible interactions between the two.
Look at the mosaic joeys Alicia produces. She seems to have some secret lab (or atleast is accused of having a secret lab) where she is creating an abundance of extraordinary joeys. Maybe there is some truth to the theroy of Alicia's joeys? You know what? I HAVE thought about this. In one of my recent posts, I said that I believed mosaics tended to produce joeys that had markings similar to themselves. My MO has a large break in his stripe (much like many other MO's) and even his most minimally marked joeys have a hint of a break. You know Gucci right? Kris' Glider with that spot on his hip? Well that spot has been passed on to some of his joeys. And yes... Alicia must have a secret lab, how else can we explain how she hits the joey jackpot so often?!?!? Not to go off topic but just wondering Does Alicia have a website? I would love to see some of her gliders. Thanks
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: ]
#928238
04/09/10 10:11 AM
04/09/10 10:11 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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No she does not! I really wish she had a site where we could drool over all of those pretty babies whenever we wanted to!
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: DirtyPaws]
#928259
04/09/10 11:25 AM
04/09/10 11:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305 Florida, USA
oakley
OP
Glider Slave
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OP
Glider Slave
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
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I know... I just don't see a link to it anymore on her profile on SGN... I'll ask her..
Meghan ~__/> {{ }}
Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers Horse: Nugget RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli Oakley's Glider Site
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: DirtyPaws]
#928580
04/09/10 09:59 PM
04/09/10 09:59 PM
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partyofsix
Unregistered
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partyofsix
Unregistered
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The Jolly Gliders also has a lot of white mosaics also. My mosaic boy seems to only produce white mosaics. The gene is very strong in this line I'm told.
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: ]
#928617
04/09/10 11:09 PM
04/09/10 11:09 PM
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855 Orlando, FL
Tish84
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
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The Jolly Gliders also has a lot of white mosaics also. My mosaic boy seems to only produce white mosaics. The gene is very strong in this line I'm told. Good to know
TISH Lana (Siberian Husky) 2 Turtles Bunny Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day) www.fancysuggies.com
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: Tish84]
#942741
05/13/10 04:27 AM
05/13/10 04:27 AM
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threewingedfury
Unregistered
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threewingedfury
Unregistered
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I'd personally like to see the statistics of joeys produced from a Mo x Mo pair. What would be interesting to see is the number of joeys produced from the pair from each litter, how often they're produced and what phenotype they appear to be. This can become difficult though since glider litters are so small.
The reason why I say this, is because we don't really know if mosaics can even exist in the homozygous state. I'm gonna bring up another species to explain (please don't think I'm trying to compare another species to gliders, I'm just speaking genetics here). With chinchillas - you don't breed two mosaics together or two black velvets together because the white (mosaic) gene and the TOV (black velvet) gene can not exist in a homozygous state. It's pretty much considered the lethal gene, and the homozygous fetus dies in utero and is reabsorbed resulting in a lower number of kits. Now, if you were to take a mosaic pair and realize that you get less joeys (regardless of phenotype) from a certain mating, then it is possible that mosaics can't exist in the homozygous state.
This is something I'd personally like to test in the far future or study from afar, but rather interesting to digest. I don't like comparing species, but it's practically the same idea.
In fact, are there any lethal genes that have been discovered in gliders yet?
Last edited by threewingedfury; 05/13/10 04:29 AM.
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again)
[Re: ]
#942746
05/13/10 06:43 AM
05/13/10 06:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664 Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
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I don't think there are any "lethal" genes as you describe. However, I know the albino gene is very fragile. I believe albino's life span is significantly shorter as well.
Krys DeRosa Godfather of the NY Glider MafiaKrysKritters.comA child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
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