Where/Who would the money be going to?

For what reason would someone register rescues? I have rehomed about a hundred rescues in the last year and have many more sitting here looking for forever homes. We all know that not EVERY dog is registered with the AKC - WHY would we be asked to register rescues for whom we have no familial history and know they will never be breeding? What is the benefit? What do you plan to do with this information? Under what circumstances would someone need to look up a rescue glider in your data base?

I agree with those that have stated that you will be hard pressed to get people to pay for a service that is already provided by others for free. Then again, I have not followed discussions in the past about a registry. Let me ask - Why not invest the time and energy into improving the existing databases rather than starting a whole new one? I wish you the best of luck, and appreciate that you have made special considerations for rescues. However, I doubt I will be taking time out of my already busy schedule to register the hundreds of gliders that pass through my rescue home each year (unless you can give me some really good reason for doing so).

PLEASE NOTE: The $25 Charter Member fee has NOTHING to do with becoming a member of the registry OR the Association. The Charter Member fee will be going to CREATING and PAYING for the database and the start up of both the NSGR and the NSGRA.


What you receive in return for becoming a Charter Member among other benefits is 10% off ALL OTHER FEES when you DO register.



ONCE AGAIN The Charter Member Fee DOES NOT reflect in any way the fees of the Registry. Keep in mind, joining as a Charter Member acts as a vote "YES" for the creation of the NSGR and NSGRA. Stated a different way, the Charter Membership Fees are providing us with some of the start up money that is necessary for this effort.

Think about it, if we don't get enough response at this level, we will not be able to continue. The majority of glider owners out there are NOT on these boards(GC, SGN ...) however, without the Community's initial and ongoing support of such an undertaking, the Registry will not come to fruition. You are what is going to make the Registry work.

Addressing the Rescuers out there:

Here is why the Registry will benefit Rescuers. First of all, most large scale rescuers do not have the capacity to follow up on every single one of their rescued gliders. Furthermore, it is widely known that breeding rescues is not to be done, but how do you keep tabs on that?

The Registry is going to provide Rescuers with an easy solution to these issues. When a rescued glider is added to the registry it's registration number will reflect the fact that it is a rescue. Furthermore, the glider (whether it be male, female, neutered, or not) will instantly be registered as being "Pet Only" therefore disabling the ability for any joeys to be registered with a rescue glider as their sire/dam (extenuating circumstances can be provided for).

That way, when someone adopts/buys a rescued glider and later breeds this glider and tries to register joeys, a red flag will go up in our system and YOU the Rescuer could be notified of this if you choose to be.

Isn't the point of rescuing gliders to find good, forever, PET homes? Isn't the most difficult part of re-homing a female rescue not being sure that she won't be bred in the future? The Registry will become another way to make sure that Rescued gliders get a second chance to live a better life.

CAN someone breed and sell gliders without the registry? CERTAINLY!

Just like the AKC, many owners will probably choose NOT to use the Registry. However, the NSGRA can become the go-to authority if YOU decide to make it that way!

Am I the only one who thinks this is a good idea for the gliders?

I can really see a lot of benefit here if people get on board with it.

Just a few random things I was thinking about:
1. If I sell a pet-only glider and the person later makes arrangements with me to be allowed to breed the glider, can the pet-only status be changed in the system?
2. If I retire a pair of gliders, change their status to retired, then the female has one last set of joeys (this happens), can the status be changed for the purpose of registering the joeys? It sounds like you said it could for special circumstances, but I just wanted to make sure.
3. This could be a great solution to those of us who are breeding colored gliders and selling pet-only colored gliders. This would be a great way to prevent them from breeding the pet-only glider. It would be harder for them to sell their babies....and this could be explained to prospective adopters.
4. Will people have access through this database to view lineage and inbreeding % of potential pairings? If I want to buy a glider from someone, I want to know the lineage and know that it works with the 2nd glider that I'm considering.
5. When a litter of joeys is registered, do they get marked as "breeder" or "pet only" at that time? Because we don't usually know what their status will be until the adoption terms are worked out with the buyers.
6. Can this system be used to track health issues, cause of death, diet, etc? It would be great in the future to be able to run reports on things like any health issues coming about as a result of leu to leu pairings or kidney problems or whatever. It would be great to be able to look at lineage and determine that there's a common health issue with a line of gliders, so the breeders can be aware of it.
7. It does sound like a lot of work, especially for those with a lot of gliders. Have you considered discussing this with Priscilla & seeing if there's a way to export the data from her database and importing it into yours from there. I'm sure it would take some programming to manipulate the data & get some numbers assigned & add some info, but at least you could get it all together. At the very least, when someone applies to register their gliders, you'd have a list of all of their gliders that were in Priscilla's database & all of their gliders' info. Then it would just be a matter of having the owner verify and then tweaking the data a little.
8. Start-up fees can be a lot for this type of thing. I don't think it sounds like they're trying to get rich by starting this thing up. I don't know what all is involved specifically, but getting a website going, a program to handle all of this data, server space & bandwidth.....plus the man hours to get it all going and input the data....it's not cheap.
9. If you don't want to register your rescue gliders, you don't have to. No one said you have to use the database. If you are rehoming rescue gliders, this could be a great way for you to designate that they are pet-only. If you are keeping your rescue gliders, maybe you won't want to mess with registering them. That's up to you. If you do choose to, it'll be nice that they're documented & in the system in case you die or something happens to you & your gliders do have to be rehomed.

I know there are other databases that are free for us to use. I like free too and so far I'm pretty happy with using Priscilla's database. But this is much more than just a database. It's a way to be credible in the community and a way to help weed out some of the bad breeders. Not only that, but when searching by glider name, I have experienced how confusing it can be when there are multiple gliders with that name. Not only that, but anyone can enter a glider into that database & say it came from someone else. There's no system of checks & balances there. Plus it's confusing that some people are using this database & some are using that one & others are just posting a family tree on their website. I like to have it all in one place to really look it over closely.

Ok those are my thoughts for now. I'm sure I'll have more later.

Misty

Misty,

THANK YOU for your post! Now we are getting somewhere! We are not trying to impose an in-place registry on this community. We want your input and involvement to get this up and running! Questions like these are what we need to create a Registry that will be successful.

Where/Who would the money be going to?

I believe they said the money would be going to support the website/get it running. (If you meant specifics, I can't answer that)

ultimately, I think it's a good idea! It will be a mess and a lot of hard work at first, but it's a good idea.
Maybe other databases will agree to work together for more accurate records, etc (that's kind of a wild speculation, I know... ) but like Iowamisty put: It would be nice to not have to jump back and forth to other websites when considering buying a glider.

I feel this is a good idea too. I think there should be a breed standard that we all can agree on like the AKC for dogs.

You have asked this several times and we thought we have answered this several times. To make this very clear, the money coming from the Charter Memberships (Which is ALL we are collecting at this time) is going towards the start up fees for the NSGR.




Nicole, we are starting this registry because it is needed in the Community. This Registry is for the good of the glider.

Let me re-iterate once again:



I, as an individual, am not going to be making decisions for the Association. The Association is made up of YOU the COMMUNITY and it is neither my place nor my desire to influence the Association.

Well, not all AKC registered dogs are breeding stock- some are just family pets- but the owners still chose to buy a pedigreed dog and to register it. Here is where it gets tricky- you don;t see a registry for DOGS without pedigrees- so would you still want to register GLIDERS without pedigrees? Now I for one think the AKC needs a sister club- one where you can register heinz 57 mixes who have litters... why? Because you could then more acurately track what a dog's heritage is. For instance, the AKC manages records for PEDIGREED DOGS, whether or not those dogs breed, because they have lineages. So I am all for a glider registry, where a glider owner who knows their gldiers' lineage can register joeys before allowing someone else to take them- and then they can be "tracked" from owner to woner from there- allowing for breedings producing offspring to continue to be tracked and thereby lessening the chances of line breeding AND helping o track genetic issues and defectes better. BUT I think that there should ALSO be a place to register gldiers with NO lineages, so that those gliders can be tracked as well AND so that if they DO produce offspring (we all know it happens) then the new joeys can now be tracked at least back to the gliders without a lineage that goes any further, ALSO helping to track genetic and hereditary issues. I mean, the AKC had to start SOMEWHERE, right? They had to start with a few dogs that maybe someone knew back to the grandparens on and it grew from there- that is what I am thinking needs to happen here- if it gets started, then think how easy it will be to track 5, 10 or 20 years from now- a centralized database where Jane from California who is thinking of breeding her leu with a leu from John's house in Maine can pay a dmall fee or a yearly membership fee even for access to an online or by mail complete history as far back as she wants it to go- or as far as it does go- on both gliders and see if they are related or if any specific genetic defects are likely. I think it is a wonderful idea. I also think, as I said before, that COST is going to be a major factor. For instance, a registered rescue home can register gliders for free whether lineage is known or not... a breeder pays a flat fee based on the number of breeding pairs owned and gets to register all gliders BUT has to pay a per glider fee for gliders obtained by purchase or transferred to the breeder after the initial registration for their original pairs has been completed. breeders can register new joeys for free but a new purchaser of those joeys pays a fee to transfer the registration into their name. A pet owner pays a different fee based ont he number pet gliders being registered, and no matter who you are, neutered males cost less to register than un-neutered males but proof from a vet is required to get the discount. Then a whole other fee for gliders anyone obtains as a pet with no lineage like from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets or Craigslist.

Coming from a livestock background- (horses and goats) I really was surprised that there already wasn't something like this out there.

If done right, it could be a very positive thing. Everyone knows that AKC is a darn good reg. It also increases the value of the animals. I know I pay more for a reg goat then I do a non reg!

I do not currently have gliders, but will very shortly, and if this reg is really going to be as open to suggestions and working with the collective group, it could be wonderful.

As far as the mentioning of fee's and the extra work with the big breeders- Really really, Those are the people you Want to be friendly to. They produce high quality animals and have a following. If you convince Them to come play in your play ground, the rest will want to as well. Just IMO-

Also, anyone ever thought of a sugar glider show? Conformation, color, obedience even? Lots of possibilities!

Remember that the costs probably are for things such as domain registration and hosting, bandwidth fees (can you imagine the fees incurred on a huge database?), maybe servers, backup drives (not cheap and can always break, more like a RAID setup maybe), and if we need to pay someone to program the website or database.. it will add up quickly. If only things could be free! I am just guessing on this but I know if there are plans for a website and such these are only the tip of the iceberg for fees and costs of maintaining one. I don't feel that a few fees to register are going to be unreasonable, or how else would we continue to maintain such an organization? I doubt jorey registration would cost $50.

I'm just curious, will you be publically publishing a detailed document with ALL your fees collected and expenses? What will happen to the excess monies collected? I know firsthand exactly the costs of establishing and running a database, and I can tell that with the projected fees, you're going to be bringing in a lot more money than you'll be spending...

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering about as well. I know it costs alot to get established and that you want to get that money back, but I'm curious what's going to happen to all the money made AFTER the original investment is paid back. I think that if a good percentage of it is going to help rescues and such then you'd get alot more people interested in it.

Also, would part of the money be going towards all the original breeders(such as Sheila, Judie, Priscilla etc...) who I'm sure will be playing a big part in helping to make sure all the information is correct? I can imagine that if I was one of those breeders I might get a big upset if people are making money off of all the information that they are going to be the ones providing. :\

Sorry, I know I sound like I'm against the idea, but I'm not AT ALL. I just think that it needs to be very well though-through and that since money will be made out of it then some of that money ought to go towards helping gliders in need, since the whole point of the registry would be "for the good of the gliders" in the first place. Know what I mean?

Nicole, that is exactly why I was asking about them going non-profit status. That makes them VERY accountable for all money received and spent. Not to mention making it tax deductable.

was just thinking....lol, just think how much they could make if Perfect Pocket Pets were to pay a $25 registration fee per joey THEY sell! (said semi-sarcastically since they sell "tens of thousands")

Oh! That's a great idea! It would especially be a great incentive for bigger breeders to register their gliders since it would be tax deductible!

Honestly, I don't think I'd want to sign up for something like this unless I knew for sure that the money was going to help gliders. So, non-profit status would definitely give me comfort knowing where the money's going.

I guess for me, for this to be "credible" and "legitimate" it needs to be set up as a non profit. Otherwise it just seems a way for someone to make money off of what is (mostly) already being offered for free.

I brought this up before and the reply was


I guess it seems to me that the "committee" needs to be established FIRST and all the details sorted out.

Also, have you consulted a tax lawyer? State and Federal taxing agents? If you do this without the non profit status, or atleast without setting up the "comittee" as it's own corporation/business, then YOU have to claim this as personal income tax.

And I have to object to the claims that this registry will stop people from breeding rescues. It might discourage some but let's face it....GC (and really all online boards combined) are only a small portion of those that own gliders. I had gliders for 6 years before I found GC. Unfortunately, those NOT on the boards may not realize how strongly we feel about breeding rescues. Shoot, there are those that ARE on GC, that have rescues and are breeding them anyway (and selling the joeys). While the offspring of rescues may not be registered, there are soooooooo many that really couldn't care less if their animals are registered or not. I stated I have one pure bred dog, and I do. But I also have 5 others that are mutts and without "papers" on them. I couldn't care less if they are registered or not (they are all spayed/neutered).

I am on the fence line with this.

If this is all just about and for the gliders, then this should be set up as a Non-Profit status.

We would need to ask WHY would you not make it NON-PROFIT, if this is indeed for the good, better of the gliders?????

Like Nicole said Non-Profit Status would give her and I am sure many other people comfort in knowing exactly where the money is going.


I do think this could be a Great thing if it were set up right and done correctly.


I for one would not support something like this AFTER the original investment is paid back the money wasn't going to a good cause.

I do not support anything or anyone that money is just going back into their pockets. When this would be something that is for the gliders as said.

So that being said I would not be behind or even consider backing this up unless I know it is a NON-PROFIT STATUS.

This is just my thoughts and view on this.

Well, NGS, maintaining a website and a database DOES take alot of work, so I could understand wanting to keep SOME of the profits as payment for all the work they're doing, but I do think that a good portion(if not MOST) of the profit should go towards something to help gliders.

Hi All,

sounds like you are starting to get the idea of this... have any of you considered joining the NSGRA when the time comes to form that committee? Those are the types of responsibilities that the NSGRA will have.


As for non-profit status, that is something that we are open to considering. Please keep in mind that right now the NSGR and the NSGRA are NOT established (we are waiting for the COMMUNITY's response).

Nicole, I see what you are saying but that is not what I am reading in most of these post.

What I am getting is that this is all for the gliders and to make things easier for people to track them.

If this is the case then I feel it should be totally NON-PROFIT and all in the good for them. (the gliders)

Now if they want to do something good and make Money off of it too

then they should have just been honest with everyone and openly

said you know what we thought of something that would help and we would like to get paid for it. (This should have been said from the get go.)

I do not like things that start out one way (for the good and well being of the gliders, Which would mean NON-PROFIT) and end up going in the other direction toward Money.

Puts me on the fence when I see this.

I feel like this whole thing is shot in the dark. It seems really unorganized with no product available and set up/ready for people to invest in. How are we supposed to invest in something that isn't tangible? We need a demo, and we need more than, ..."that hasn't been determined as of yet" or... "the community will get to decide that." Right now, it's like you're trying to sell just an idea.

Is it a good idea? Yes, of course. Are the other 2 already established and free databases a good idea? Absolutely.

It's been said that this would alleviate the breeders responsibility to provide lineage and background information on their sugar glider joeys. There is just no way that that is ever going to happen... unless people suddenly just don't care about lineages and inbreeding and family history. Responsible sugar glider owners/seekers are going to depend on the breeders for that type of information BEFORE they purchase a joey from them.

It's also been said that when a joey is sold to a new owner that they'd have to register their joey with this "organization" in order to get lineages and family history? Isn't that a little backwards? People need to be able to have that information provided to them beforehand so they know if the new sugar is compatible with that which they already have.

I don't know... seems like this is a LOT of doubled efforts. breeders will have to keep up with their own databases... there's no getting away from that, plus if they want to, they can also pay to provide that information to this "organization".

And then people looking for a specific sugar glider? Well, if I were looking for a joey, I'd go straight to the source for my information.

One other point that has been brought up that this registry would provide is developing a standard for specific breed types and colors in sugar gliders. Um... isn't that already taken care of?? We all (the community) figured out and came to conclusion on one of the color breeds just a few weeks ago. And we did right here... and free of charge.

With those things said, I am not intending to be combative. I'm only bringing up questions that I have in my own mind about this, figuring that others may see it the same way.

Oh, just for the record...

501c3 allows for those working on it to be paid. It is just all the money has to be accounted for publically and has to be reasonable amounts.

However, I'm betting IF the software/database, server etc was set up, that there would be people willing to volunteer some of their time to help input data and get it running leaving more money to go to help gliders either through different rescue homes or even through the vet funds or TGI.

Teresa-- thank you for all the insight about the non-profit status information. I too, think that doing that would definitely make this more appealing.

Meghan, I have read all the posts... and that's exactly where my all questions and concerns come from.

Please don't avoid those concerns by repeatedly stating for me to read your posts. It seems that you're trying to take the focus off the concerns so other people think they've already been answered, and that I'm asking irrelevant questions. That's not fair.

Regardless. I hope you'll take this thread and really figure out what product you're going to try to sell at the SGGA. If the questions and concerns are taken care of beforehand, and if there is a product for people to see and interact with, then perhaps you'll stir some interest.

I'll look forward to reading about this after the SGGA.

Thanks