I don't think you had any right to say who she could or could not have in her home. If Susan wanted to have anyone over at that time, it is her right, appointment or not. May not be the best business practice, but that doesn't give you the right to say who she can have in her own home.

Umm...you wont like this but NO, I dont think you had any right to say who could be in Susans home or not while you were there. It is not your home.

That would be like saying if you came to visit me, and Karin came into town due to unexpected circumstances and wanted to come to my home the same day because it was the ONLY day she would have a chance to...I am supposed to say no because you are there?

Dont work that way....

Honestly, I think it was right for Lynsie and Virginia to infringe on Sheila's visit with Susan. If I were Sheila or Susan, I would be upset/annoyed by 2 people deciding they wanted to interrupt a visit with a long time friend, but I also wouldn't be rude and say "No, you can't come over". What would you guys be saying about Susan if she had refused to let Lynsie and Virginia come to her house???

Also, how do you think Sheila feels after planning this visit for several months, just to have it interrupted by somebody that's repeatedly belittled Susan... Lynsie, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but why would you ask to go to Susan's and look at some of her gliders, when you have no intentions of ever buying from her (or so you've claimed)? To me, it looks like you were just being nosy and trying to dig up some dirt to use against her... And since she wouldn't allow you a chance to knit pick her cages, etc. So, instead, you are going after her for giving you the opportunity. Maybe I'm seeing things wrong, but that looks like the most obvious explanation to me...

OT kinda..........................I was looking to purchase "something special" one summer (gift from hubby). I to prefer to see where I am getting my kids from (at least pics)
I went to a ladys house around Dallas somewhere................she only had a couple pair of breeders and some pets.................................bout 7 cages.......................anyway I could smell the gliders before I got to the door! inside the house was not really dirty............................but the glider smell turned me off completely and My hubby..........he was ready to go when we got there. her gliders were friendly. She had a cinnamon advertised but the glider was a CG. Needless to say I did not nor would I purchase from this woman. she said she fed BML I believe. Not much enrichment either. Pics would not have let me in on the smell issue.

Leyna, Actually Virginia was looking to buy a Cremino. She wanted to see different ones, so she wanted to see what Susan had and she wanted to see what Priscilla had, Lynsie was looking for a platinum baby...so yes they BOTH were looking to purchase gliders...

They did not *plan* to interrupt anything. Lynsie and Virginia drove all the way down here from Illinios to bring Lidia to see Dr.Tristan. It was NOT a planned trip. When they were at my house they were telling me how they were going to go to Priscillas and asked where FFR was located. I told them it was near Sugarland, on their way up to Priscillas, so they wanted to stop by there as well.

What made them decide not to purchase, was the fact that Susan would not allow them access to the area where the gliders were kept.

There was no *evil plot* between them to interrupt anything with anyone. So I think THAT part is blown a bit out of porportion. This is why this is even being brought up...

We would of had no problem at all if Susan didn't want us to come over, but we called and asked and she said it was fine. If Susan didn't want us there then she should have said so. We did no infringe on her visit with Sheila, Sheila had already invited Priscilla and Tyler to come with her and we did not arrive until after they had all left.

BTW: I had never bashed Susan before I had went to her house. I had said that I would not buy from a mill breeder but I had not decided for myself that Susan was a mill breeder before I went to her house. I am a person of second chances and I was hoping that I would go to Susan's and it would change my opinion of her facility since we were left to assume the worst, but my opinion was not changed. She told us that we could not see the room, that the cages were small and we would not be happy with them, the diet she feeds, and that she does not handle her gliders. SHE told us that and those are the reasons that I decided not to purchase from her.

Sheila, I'm glad I didn't interrupt your time with her. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get the creme-ino joey I was hoping to purchase.

Do you think people will stop buying joeys from you now that you've bought a joey from Susan?

Peggy as I tried to explain last night, If you are a client of Susan's and have purchased a glider or have a deposit on a glider, you have every right to see her glider room if you want. Since you have never been her client nor Alicia,and didn't inquire about purchasing a glider from her until yesterday, I didn't feel like she should have to show you and the rest of the internet any pictures unless you were purchasing a glider from her.
The reason for her discretion is that there are many people who's standards for the way a glider room looks is way higher than others. Lynsie is a good breeder but everyone knows that having everything perfect for her gliders is wonderful, but it is not the same standard everyone holds. If you know Lynsie, you will know that every cage has a cage cover that matches with matching toys and pouches. Lynsie gets her breeders out and plays with them a lot which is a good thing. Even with the sickness she has had lately I would not hesitate to purchase from her because I know the high standard that Lynsie has when it comes to her gliders care and room. I myself have more gliders than her and am a midsize breeder. Since every glider is not gotten out every night, I do put put a wheel and at least three toys in a cage. I have spent $1000's on my toys and have boxes full that have never been opened. I could load each cage down with toys, but I would never have time to rotate them so I don't rotate them but once a month or every other washing. Because not every glider is out every night, they need more room to glide in the cage - meaning not a cage packed down with toys. Gliders love to glide and sometimes too many toys, or not switching toys out can cause problems with their happiness too. I have found gliders to have more fun with an empty oatmeal box than with any expensive beautiful toy. Being a breeder of 50 cages like Susan, she is most likely not getting them out every night to play. Susan does have cages in her office too and while we were there she brought out a platinum cremino that was purchased while we were there. I also do not have the same standard as you as far as seeing pictures of people's glider rooms before I purchase from them. Peggy, would purchase a glider from you without ever coming to portland to see your room, and I also would not go looking for pictures on the internet where you have posted pictures because I have talked to you enough and know the standard that you have with your gliders plus I have seen your gliders in person. All I was saying Peggy was Susan did not know you and for you to ask her right then and there in front of everyone to show you pictures for whatever reason you were asking was not something she wanted to do. I am sure in the future we will see pictures of her room, but I am more inclined to think that it will be her clients only who are privey to those photos!

This thread is NOT about who got to see Susan at what time.

Please do not lose the important point in this. As I posted earlier, this has nothing to do w/Susan as a "person/human being". It only has to do w/the glider situation. No one is being malicious or manipulative by questioning a situation that seems to be "hidden"...for lack of a better word. I still have people who adore Pocket Pets and swear that they are the best and most knowledgeable breeder out there. It is simply not true. The personal feelings about Susan have no relevance to this discussion. There seems to be a trend of the same people coming to defend a "person" when there's no need. The "person" is not being questioned and all that is accomplished is to lose the meaning behind the questions. As for history following a person who's trying to change, how about history repeating itself? That's the worry. If Susan, or any breeder who had a questionable past, is sincerely making changes and wants the community to support them, it is their responsibility to stand up and show the changes. No one can do it for them. People are talking about feelings being hurt...how about the gliders being hurt? (not saying Susan is hurting gliders, just making a general point). I guess it can be viewed as good that she allowed an ill glider to be "returned" and "replaced" it, but to me that sounds way too much like returning a defective toaster to Walmart. It's the attitude. Perhaps it's just my perspective that makes me feel that way, but I don't see any ill/injured glider as needing to be "returned" and "replaced". How can that be if you love that animal? That's just something I don't understand. OK, guess that's a bit OT, so back to the issue. Discussions should be able to take place w/out any personal insults/issues/offense. If that can't happen, why is there even a glider community?

Not trying to step on any mod's toes, but Sheila, this isn't about anyone's visit to Susan. Could ya'll please discuss that in pm so that we can continue to discuss the glider situation in this thread? Thanks.

Well if People choose not to purchase from me it is up to them. I would think since I have never had a parasite here in 9 years that would say something about how safe the person will be in purchasing gliders from me. I also stand behind my gliders and warranties. I offer hours upon hours of support to my clients. In six years I have purchased four gliders from Susan. I only had a problem with one and that was recently. The glider was sent back and I was refunded my money in full. No parasite was found with the glider, I just wasn't happy with her temperament and she did not eat properly for me. Susan took her back and put her with an older female and she is only going to be a pet, not a breeder. Many people on this board have offspring from those gliders that I purchased from her. Those original gliders are still alive today and are healthy and these gliders were sold to me when Susan was a large breeder.
I am very proud of my gliders and I do love them. Many of the gliders I have are 6 generations that I have kept and I keep a lot of my stock and rarely do I purchase from other breeders. I have only purchased one from Priscilla, none from Stacey, none from Kris, none from Lynsie, etc. I hold on to a lot of my gliders because I like them, but I am particular about how they are raised. I have seen good breeders compromise on diet, etc., and in 9 years I have never fed anything except the BML or the HPW. I have never run out of food substituing other ingredients or deviated from the original recipes to make the food stretch (like some breeders do using applesauce). If I feel an animal is not up to par, I won't breed it and will remove it from the program. When I say up to par, I mean acting depressed or showing signs of stress because they are old and having joeys and not wanting to breed. In that case, I neuter the males they are with.. I have given many gliders away to loving homes never asking for money for them. Some have been 100% hets for albinos and mosaics because I care more about the home they go to. I have a standard too and it is not about making money. I raise gliders because I love them and I love being challenged with figuring out colors. Since have done it for a hobby for 9 years I must love it. I think that in the long run people will appreciate the things I do do for the gliders I have. I think that wins out over anything else. I think people should be more concerned about integrity and honesty because that is a virtue that is rare. I think the fact that my gliders are healthy and well cared for and love should say it all.

wow...look what I started.

it wasn't my intent.

my question has been answered...thank you.

Virginia asked me if I thought Susan would mind if they came over too so I gave my opinion to her because she asked. I knew Susan was nervous about just having me over the first time. I could have just said to Virginia, this is my appt time, you will have to set another appt.

SoSorry but by the time I finish typing my post there are a lot more coments made.

And that's exactly what I did. I set up a different time. Unfortunately, when I expressed a desire to purchase one of her creme-ino joeys, she didn't feel it necessary to let me even glance in her glider facility. I told her it didn't matter that she had insulation showing or what it looked like, I just wanted to see where the gliders were kept. But...nope. So that was that....

"What made them decide not to purchase, was the fact that Susan would not allow them access to the area where the gliders were kept."

If that were the reason, I don't know why they went there to begin with,because they knew ahead of time that no one has been allowed there in the glider room and they knew that before they called Susan. They knew that they would not be able to view the glider room so that should not have been the determining factor as to whether they would buy the glider. Since they only saw gliders that were healthy I don't know what they saw that would have changed their minds. They also saw the same joeys we saw which were not unhandled joeys.

Virginia did call Susan and Susan told her that they were welcome to come, just not during the time we were there and that is why they came at a later time.

Jennifer,

I am glad your question was answered that started the original thread.

ya,

I think there is enough information in this thread for people to make their own judgments....

we're just beating a dead horse at the moment.

I agree. There are some directions in this thread I doubt people really want to go.

I am now closing this discussion as the question has been asked and answered.

It seems that everyone agrees that pictures would answer lots of questions. I am, naturally, paranoid because not everyone has my best interest in mind. I may have been more likely to show photos before I was put under the microscope, so to speak. Peggy makes a good point that some people might be dissuaded from buying from anyone that that doesn’t allow potential buyers to view their facility.
When I had recent guests here, there was an on going discussion about me so, naturally, I became very skeptical about sudden visitors. Sheila’s visit had been planned for a very long time. I felt very comfortable with her. I made a mistake by not letting her view my glider rooms. My feeling was that once I allowed 1 person, I would have to allow anyone. That was wrong thinking. She was invited to come back later for a visit, but time would not allow it. My thinking was wrong, because I should be able to decide who my friends are and who my enemies are and should be able to allow or disallow anyone I choose. I don’t think I should give my enemies any more ammo.
As for my reasons for not letting people into my glider rooms, they are two fold. Disease is always a consideration, but I also know what can happen when strangers are allowed into a breeding facility. Diane, I appreciate your dog analogy. It’s common knowledge that I once ran a much larger operation. It required help, 7 days a week, 8-10 hours a day. I took my responsibilities seriously. There was a lot of activity because of the time that was required to take care of so many gliders. There was also some cannibalization and mutilation, especially after a stranger entered the premises. After I downsized, I became the sole caretaker of my colony. They are in a secure, quiet building (not a barn, Lynsie, but on the other side of the barn). I can honestly say that since I made those changes, I have not had 1 rejected joey, nor any joeys mutilated in any way.
The point of this post is that, if my past customers want to see photos of my cages and glider rooms, I will be glad to supply them for their viewing only. For future customers, I will consider photos after I determine that they are a serious buyer and a deposit is received. The deposit is usually non-refundable, but I will make an exception if the sale is cancelled because they find my facility objectionable either through photos or a personal visit. Because I still firmly believe that my gliders are very happy in their quiet environment, personal visits will probably mean standing at the door and looking in.
I am doing my best to evolve. Believe it or not, I find some of this very helpful, but there’s a lot of hurt too.