LOL, I told you they will let you know.. LOL

Happy Thanksgiving everyone, you all have done a great Job,

spoil them today with your LICKY treats, you have a wide selection to choose from, remember it is for today only, so use your imagination..

no garlic, onion, or lima beans, avoid gassy foods, chocolates,

no nuts, seeds or HEAVILY peppered items.

ideas: pumpkin pie, banana pudding, cranberry sauce, mashed potatoes, raisin sauce, sweet potato casserole etc....

LICKY only, nothing they have to use their teeth on...

have fun and let us know how things are going....

Nikki......

Please you have to tell everyone what you have been up to these last couple of days..!!!!!

I am so proud of you...


I am so proud of all of You, you all have made great strides, moved mountains, and I think everyone has new gliders they are now working with.

who would have believed it,

how about a quick update on the before and after?

Happy Thanksgiving!
Shadow did awesome again yesterday. No crabbing in the cage, and he was really good in his bonding pouch as well. At first he crabbed in the bonding pouch, and I made him crab alot too as instructed. I had him with me for several hours and I was cleaning cages (he HATES that) no crabbing. I even didn't get crabbed at one of the times I stuck my hand in the bonding pouch! When I took their pouch out of my shirt and returned them to the cage there was no crabbing! (They always crab when I do that!) By that last hour none of the things that used to make him crab upset him anymore. So awesome from the little man who crabbed constantly in the pouch only a week ago!
It is so neat to be able to pet Shadow! It really is all I hoped for He is so cute and sweet just looking at me!
Since he is being so cute this morining I dug out my old camera, here is my little angel:



Hand under him and peting him. No crabs

Well, Rough & Tough let me know I was getting too anxious and moving too fast for them again. Another crabbing BUT no one jumped to the back of the pouch or out of the pouch. Bourbon told me to back way off and just go in every three hours, raise the door to their cage and talk to them for a few seconds then close the door and leave. It was so funny! The first few times, they both looked at me like I was nuts, but no one moved. Then only Tough would look at me. Finally, neither one paid a bit of attention to me! I love it! It's so awesome to see such an IMMEDIATE change in them AND in ME! I'm learning what *I* need to do, to get *them* to do what I want with the end result being happier and healthier suggies. So far, it's so simple (once Bourbon tells you what to do LOL!) that I'm wondering why I didn't see how to do this months ago! I plan on working with ALL my gliders to strengthen my bond with them.

My girls have pretty much been on a break from this whole thing the last couple of days as I went out of town for the holiday. But we are starting again this evening... as soon as my claritin kicks in! I scared the crud out of DOnna last night sneezing and she ran all over the cage to get away from me. So I will not attempt to handle her again till I KNOW I won't sneeze!

Things haven't changed here. I'm still going in every 3 hours, opening the door and talking to them briefly then closing the door and leaving the room. They look up at me briefly until I close the door then they go back to sleep. That's ok, boys. Mommy has a lot of patience. :-)

Good job Connie, it will pay off big time!

I had an awesome time in the tent with Shadow and the girls tonight. They were gliding all over, to my hand and me. They had a blast. As soon as I started to move my hand towards them they jumped on it. I made videos, I need to order a new camera cord so I can share. I got one good one where Shadow and Sunshine both glide to me at the same time They are getting really good about being in the bonding pouch, they are no longer exesivley crabby. I even clipped their nails today with out too much trouble (you should have seen me after playtime on Thanksgiving, I was rubbing antibiotic ointment all over my arms) Clipped 100 some nails today lol

Anyway lots of progress here, the PP pouch is almost closed now, it is open about 2 inches maybe at the top. I am adding back in the accesories in the cage one at a time. They have the wheel a vine and a toy now. I caught Sugar sleeping in the wheel and kicked her out. I am hoping she chooses the pouch next time so they can keep the wheel.

Here is a pic of Shadow from the other night!

I have to post on here otherwise Bourbon's going to get mad at me! lol

So, my first day started about 3 days ago, I soaked up as much information from Bourbon as possible. I took everything out of my boys cage that they could possibly hide in. The next morning while leaving for work I almost left with tears in my eyes! Mak was in the top of the cage and Xylo was on a hammock on the other side of the cage - both wide awake and not moving. I wrote to Bourbon and told her about it - and said that I would check on them during my lunch break (she thought I was going to break the rules and put the pouch back in lol)

When I went home to check on them, they were snuggled together in the make-shift pouch that I made out of one of my bridges. Play time that night was excellent! Mak was the sweetheart from the beginning - letting me pet him, but Xylo was always the one to crab at me and get really mad - even lunge at me through the pouch.

That night I was able to give licky treats to both!! No crabbing what-so-ever!

The next day (Friday) my boyfriend and I both got off work unexpectedly early...Eric arrived home and begged me to put the pouch back in the cage - I came straight home and called Bourbon right away because the boys were both on the side of the cage and not sleeping in their pouch - again - and neither of us were sure if they had slept at all that day or not. They just looked so unhappy, so with Bourbons help - and switching of the phone between Eric and I we finally got the boys settled down again - and sleeping In my Hands!!! - I was so incredibly excited! Xylo refused to sleep any other way - I was ready to spend the rest of the day holding him in the cage if need be. Then I was given instructions to leave the cage with him (of course made me nervous) but come to find out Xylo wouldn't leave me!!

They are mad at me right now - I can tell - because they are stuck in their travel cage which is about 1/3 of the size of their regular cage. But I took their entire cage apart to clean it - and it's like a puzzle! - I'm having one heck of a time trying to put it back together! lol - tomorrow they will be back in their own cage, and hopefully not so mad at me lol.

I also received the PP pouch in the mail today - and they actually really like it! I haven't received one crab at all, and they willingly take their licky treats, they still cower down a little bit when I go by them, but I am slowly earning their trust - I can see it in both of their eyes...which makes me SO incredibly happy!!

I will keep everyone updated from now on...sorry to write so late!!

And a huge huge huge Thank you to Bourbon - for always being their when everyone else needs, and without blinking an eye always willing to help with the best advice, and taking the time out to make all the gliders lives better!!
Thank you Bourbon!!!

How can i get one of those pouch protective pouches?

You can order one at The Pampered Glider

http://www.thepamperedglider.com/products.htm

Okay thanks for the info.

Is there any other place to order them, their website is closed until Dec. 15?

Not that I know of. Some people have make a makeshift pouch out of bridges or hammocks. Maybe someone can post a pic of their temp PP pouch?

Mine were not a fan at all of the make shift pouch - they chose to sleep on the bottom of cage instead...it was really hard to watch that, I had Xylo sleeping in my hand because that was the only way he would sleep, they do fine now that the actual pouch is here.

When I tried to order my pouch the website told me the same thing - if you PM her she still had 3 left when I ordered mine, and she will let you pay her through PayPal - unless she sold hers...

Also, from what I have heard - the material that the pouch is made out of is extremely expensive, and she only charges $13 per pouch. The material is $25/yard...
She would be worth the wait if you'd have to.

Good Luck! - and your going to love the results of this pouch!!

Bella and Donna came out of the makeshift pouch long enough for me to replace it with the REAL THING today! Righ now they're sniffing it and checking it out. Hopefully they will decide it's okay to sleep in it soon. (EDIT: I tempted them into the puch by dropping in a few mealies. Hopefully they stay in it.)

We seem to have reached that dreaded plateau that Bourbon mentioned. Donna will take the licky treat, but only if I stick it under her nose. She won't come to the front of the pouch to get it now. Before I could show her the treat then bring it to the front of the pouch and she would come after it, but not anymore. And she has started laying with her back to the front of the cage, and she won't even turn around to look at me. She just keeps her little back turned to me. I miss having my babies in the bonding pouch, and I miss having Bella in my bra. I miss playtime too! But I can't take them to the bathroom till they willingly come to my hand. Don't get me wrong here... I am so glad I am not getting crabbed at and bitten, and I am very happy that I can pet Donna without fear. But I feel like I just have 2 caged miserable animals now...

This is what the makeshift pouch looks like in my cage. I used the 11 X 13 inch hammock I made to match my cage set...

When I tried to order my pouch the website told me the same thing - if you PM her she still had 3 left when I ordered mine, and she will let you pay her through PayPal - unless she sold hers...

Who is it that i need to PM?

Her name is Karen...her name here on GC is sugeebaby.

Maybe try sending her an e-mail through her website as well...

RE Karen: She said there would not be any more pouches to ship out before December 15 folks. My guess is she is taking a vacation or just doesn't have time to make any more till then. Use your hammocks or bridges in a "V" shape till you can order one in December. Several of us started out that way, just follow the same steps and instructions that Erin and I did from the beginning of the thread.

Karen had surgery on her ankle/foot the other day, she will be down for a couple of weeks.

Robin, I will call you for your next set of instructions, she is okay , don't worry she is not miserable.. LOL you are cause you wanna snuggle with her LOL

Yes, Bourbon is right... I'M LONELY HERE! LOL JK But I do miss playing with them, even if I did get bit and crabbed at sometimes.

My newest assignment, since Donna is so against coming to me, is to literally SCOOP her up out of the pouch. Yep, like ice cream. My thinking is that this will show her that I can get her in my hands and out of the cage, but she STILL doesn't have to fear me bc I won't hurt her. (???) I managed to do it once, then she got one tiny paw on a cage bar and she was back in that cage in a flash. I haven't managed to do it again since every time I open the cage door she runs out of that pouch like her tushy is on fire! But this is all so new to her, and I have to give her time to get used to the idea of me doing it. We'll get there... but at HER pace.

On the downside... the new calmer Donna must be much easier to bully as Bella has been being really aggressive to her. I watched them eating their BML earlier and I could see Bella nipping at Donna while she was eating, and Donna was hissing up a storm. I was FLOORED! And Bella even nipped at me when I scooped HER out of the pouch! Folks... I think we have insight! Bourbon was right AGAIN. Bella is the aggressive one, and I think maybe that is why Donna has always been so defensive.

I am finding that the more aggressive gliders like Donna, is really the most insecure , which all makes sense .. they are afraid of everything.. it seems as we teach the insecure ones to trust us more, that the cage mates take on the more dominant roles, which is why it is very important that when you do the petting and treats that both cage mates are involved. keep it fair and as even as possible.

Bella, is not getting afraid , she is flexing her muscles in her new role, and looking to see what she can get away with, it won't last long..

Robin put in another feeding station and get them out for playtime some. even if it means using her old cage pouch to transfer them to the play area. while in the play area, work on the hand trust techniques

I have been following this topic from day one and there is a LOT of good information here!
However, I think I need your help Bourbon....
I know you must be busy right now but any chance we could talk about my pouch protective glider? I tried to send you a PM but it says you are over your limit-not surprising!

Day 10: I DID IT I DID IT I DID IT I DID IT!!!

I got Donna out of the pouch with the scoop method! For the first time EVER I had her in my bare hand and she didn't crab at me or bite me! She did seem a bit startled though. She looked at me like, "Now how the heck did THIS happen?" But before she could decide to get upset (about 15 seconds I would guess), I brought my hand back to the open cage door and let her back into the pouch. I AM SO STOKED!!!!! And I knew it! She is soooooo cuddly! I can't wait to do it agian in the morning!

And I will try to get them out of the cage for playtime either tonight or in the morning. They seem to be a lot more active in the morning these days, so that may be the best time to do it. YIPPEE!!!

YAY! Robin! I can just imagine how excited you are..

Congrats!

I've been reading this thread from the begining as well. I tried some of the techniques as Pogo is very pouch protective. She seems to get better then plateaus. We've been at a plateau for awhile now. She's great with licky treats but she still gets defensive in the morning. Scooping her up is currently out of the question. We're working on it though.

So we've taken a backwards step =(
This is a frustrating process isn't it?!?! lol

I'm sad to say that my boys are still really scared - and even bit me today and broke the skin...I'm so sad - I don't know what happened!
I received the pouch in the mail yesterday and everything was fine - I was going in there, petting and giving them licky treats. I thought they were mad at me for not being in their big cage, so last night I stayed up until about 3am putting their cage back together, and put my boys in their. I stayed with them in the cage for a bit.

This morning everything was normal...I woke up took out their food - gave them a pet and got my hand taken off!!!! It's the first time the skin was broken.
I stayed there and didn't back away and started humming and kept petting until they calmed down enough for me to stop and leave. A couple hours later I went back in there to pet again and there was consistent crabbing from Xylo, which in turn made Mak crab. I pet again for a good couple of minutes until they were both calmed down - but I don't know what happened...

Nikki, sit back, and see from their eyes again, look at the changes in the last 3 days... you had the trip, changed the pouch, cleaned the cage and removed all the smells, and changed the pouch again, right now they are really undone, give them a couple of days to get used to everything again,

start with tonight to let them get adjusted, then tomorrow only open the door to talk to them, once in a while giving them licky treats, and only a few pets during the day and for a short period of time, If your petting them is calming them down, continue that while talking to them. Be sure the pouch is open enough where they can see you. remember, the goal is no crabbing, then we move forward to sitting in the cage again.

Nikki, you know what you can accomplish, have faith and trust things will work out. We are back on their time.