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Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520718
04/04/08 07:18 PM
04/04/08 07:18 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
This is what I have at my home right now thanks to Steve Larkin.

IF this little one survives, it certainly will NOT be because he answered his phone or paid a single cent for the care this little one is receiving for early onset HLP, severe malnutrition, severe dehydration, a parasite and the SM that has happened because he is so miserable from all of the aforementioned conditions! This little one was pulled from his mother at 3 weeks OOP, and now at 8 weeks OOP is only 24 grams. THIS is what Steve Larkin sells. THIS is how much he cares. THIS is the condition that he leaves these precious lives in:


Naruto's Pictures

What exactly is he doing wrong? ............. Is that a real question?

Last edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom; 04/04/08 07:34 PM.

~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Current Research, Studies & Resources
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #520724
04/04/08 07:25 PM
04/04/08 07:25 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
Those pics just brought me to tears....that poor, sweet, innocent baby! How can a supposed human do this????? Praying this little one can overcome this. Bless you for taking her in.

Last edited by pappy1264; 04/04/08 07:26 PM.

Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: pappy1264] #520728
04/04/08 07:30 PM
04/04/08 07:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
OMG Val that poor little baby. THANK GOD he has you.


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Trigger] #520731
04/04/08 07:39 PM
04/04/08 07:39 PM

L
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
L



do you have the news story ?? i would love to see it!!

It was REALLY hard to look at those pictures. Just AWFUL!

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520736
04/04/08 07:50 PM
04/04/08 07:50 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
petsugargliders Offline OP
Glider Slave
petsugargliders  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,532
Andover, Ohio
I am not sure what happened to the link. I was given permission to post it here, but it seems to have been removed??

I sent you a PM with the link.


Jennifer Chandler
Owned by sugar gliders for over 14 years
Pet Sugar Gliders
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: petsugargliders] #520738
04/04/08 07:52 PM
04/04/08 07:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,338
Lenexa, KS
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict
TracieB  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,338
Lenexa, KS
First, let me just say that I don't believe Steve Larkin or CCW was the one to actually sell the gliders at this particular expo in PA. His name was mentioned here and I was just telling who he was.

Originally Posted By: petsugargliders
What we do know is they guys name was Rodney that actually sold the sugar gliders and ran the booth at the expo called "Wild Creations". He handed out pamphlets from "Pocket Pets of Dallas Grand Prairie, TX".

The name/phone number of Steve Larkin was on the top of her "paperwork". The company that went through on her credit card was called "Wild Creations Myrtle Beach S.C".

Apparently she had contacted this Steve Larkin and was told that it was likely a man named Rodney Taylor that sold the sugar gliders at the PA expo. He said "I know Rodney and he is a very conscientious breeder and lover of Sugar Gliders." She tried to contact Rodney but never received a reply.


Now my answers/comments:

Originally Posted By: ABRB
I fail to see where, YOUR choices, where Steves fault. When he sold you the SG – he told you that this was the minimum size cage that you could use. So if you were concerned with the small size – buy bigger.

I was concerned about the small size and questioned it several times, but he assured me that cage was big enough for them to live in for their entire lives. After I found GC and started getting better information for the health and happiness of my gliders, I did get them a bigger cage. I built a 2' x 3' x 6 1/2' PVC coated wire cage for a little more than what that small cage and travel cage cost me.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
As for the travel, fold down cage, he tells you that this is only to get your SG from one place to another. I’m sure that he told you that if you couldn’t take the BIG cage with you, having your SG in the travel cage, for up to two weeks would not hurt them. The travel cage was NEVER meant be you SG’s vacation home. But Steve was telling you that if your back was “against the wall” and this was your ONLY choice…it would not harm them. Again, that would be YOUR decision as to how many SG’s you pack into the accommodations that YOU are providing.

Actually, he never mentioned using this fold-down travel cage to get them from place to place. He said that it folds down flat so it's easy to pack in your suitcase. He also never said anything about "if your back was against the wall and it was your only choice....", he said it was big enough to house them for a week or two while on vacation. (By the way, I now put their pouch in it when I'm cleaning their big cage, and the pouch barely fits so I do not believe that they'd be fine in there for a day or two, much less a week or two.)

Originally Posted By: ABRB
When you buy from Steve, you get ALL the information that you need to get started and even his personal cell phone number, to call ANYTIME, that you have a problem or question. How many other breeders or pet stores, do you know, that you can reach ANYTIME you need them?

I did get information, a lot of it bad (heat rock with a T-shirt on the bottom of the cage, dry pelleted food as a staple, was told they don't pee and poo all over, etc). I was wrong in buying sugar gliders on impluse without a lot of research. I talked to him for several hours over a two day period. I thought that since he was a breeder that he was giving me the right information for the health and happiness of the gliders - I was wrong. And yes, I was given his cell number. When I got my gliders they had diarrhea and he told me it was from them eating too many apples at the show and that I should feed them grapes instead and get some Bene-bac to give them. I did that and it didn't help so I did call him. He said to give them more Bene-bac and wait a few days. I'm glad I didn't wait very long. I was so concerned that I took them to the vet and found that they had Giardia (which is not caused by eating too many apples). In the first six months that I had the two gliders that I bought from CCW, I spent over $3,000 in vet bills on them. Since then I have gotten one other glider and have that persons phone numbers, email, website address and can also contact them here...all anytime, but I've had no reason to other than just to give updates and send pictures. This glider has had no health issues.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
So PLEASE explain to us – what Steve is doing wrong?

Selling ill gliders for one thing. Giving out bad and/or incomplete information for another. Had I known all that was truly involved in caring for gliders I most likely would not have bought them. Of course once I did buy them, I knew they would have a forever home and I grew very attached to them. Again, the only research I did was talking to Steve for several hours then doing a few hours of research on the internet (unfortunately I didn't find GC until after I bought them). But, he is obviously in the business to make money and giving complete information would probably result in less sales.

Originally Posted By: ABRB
I am PROUD that I bought from Steve Larkin.
I'm embarassed that I did, but glad I was able to get these two gliders the medical help that they needed. Had I listened to Steve and just continued giving the Bene-bac waiting for their diarrhea to stop, they most likely would not have survived.


Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011




Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: TracieB] #520741
04/04/08 07:57 PM
04/04/08 07:57 PM

L
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
L



Who in the world is ABRB?? I must have missed that whole post!

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Trigger] #520742
04/04/08 07:57 PM
04/04/08 07:57 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,732
Utah
S
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave
silverwolf  Offline
Glider Slave
S

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,732
Utah
I am also sorry to hear that you bought from steve. I was hoping that Utah was immune to his practices since I have never seen him at any events but I will definately keep my eye out for this guy now. I know how to be a squeaky wheel and I may not get him closed down but I will make it hard for him to come here to Utah and sell if at all possible. I have a glider that I didn't get from him but I got her from a not so reputable breeder and now I am having to deal with liver damage so don't say that just because you avoided problems that you won't have to deal with the repercussions later. Val I'm sorry to hear about your baby and I hope he pulls through no baby should have to have such a rough start.

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520745
04/04/08 08:03 PM
04/04/08 08:03 PM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



Hate to bust everyones bubble - but Steve was NOT the one selling in PA and that is by your own forum info. It was NOT "Pocket Pets of Dallas". And I suppose Steve is the ONLY one in the world , who sells the "Pellets" that were seen on the table. Which unless you could read the label - looks just like other products that you all endorse or suggest here. What a closed minded bunch you are. I quess that, if I were a breeder, I would be knocking the competition too. As for the phone - I have NEVER had a problem reaching him, so I don't need to wake other people. If you go back and read the post about the breeder who did this, you will read that Steve was the one that revealed the REAL person responsible...so I guess he CAN be reached. You all are so busy slamming him that you don't even pay attention to your own posts. I never said that he gave you all the info that you,ll ever need.... but between the informative cd, the book, and the fact sheet that is included, with every SG - It IS everything that you need to get STARTED. By the way, it really isn't THAT hard to copy someone else's flyer at Kinko's or on ANY copier and hand them out as your own... the REAL perp wasn't even smart enough to change the flyer to his own business name. As for diet - Yes my gliders are Healthy, Happy and "ODOR FREE" - MY CHOICE. As Steve would tell you - "There is no "one right way" to raise or feed them." That is why we have these forums - to exchange ideas and success stories. But if slamming people makes you feel better - that's YOUR CHOICE.

HAVE A GREAT DAY

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520760
04/04/08 08:32 PM
04/04/08 08:32 PM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



Silverwolf - I don't understand this - "so don't say that just because you avoided problems that you won't have to deal with the repercussions later" I have had healthy gliders, for YEARS - what are the repercussions? And at what point is the breeder no longer responsible for the illness of the healthy glider that you bought. Do you blame the doctor who delivered your children for the illnesses that they get all through life? AMAZING

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520762
04/04/08 08:35 PM
04/04/08 08:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
No one is slamming you, ABRB -

Why don't you tell us more about your experiences, rather than starting from a defensive, angry, hostile and alienating tone?

If Steve is so great ... the fact is ... we ARE an open-minded group. We are all always willing to learn more about our gliders and their care.

So rather than attacking everyone for their opinions - please, back yours up.

If Steve is the terrific person you say he is ... that would be such wonderful news! That would be one less thing I'd loose sleep over at night! Please ... tell me! I'd love to learn that he is wonderful and we were all wrong.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ValkyrieMome] #520763
04/04/08 08:39 PM
04/04/08 08:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
Do you work for him, because you sound like your are his pr person. In your first post, you were saying Steve did this and said that. Now you saying 'it wasn't even Steve.' Interesting.


Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520765
04/04/08 08:40 PM
04/04/08 08:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
Just as a baby that has inadequate care as a newborn can and usually does have health (and other) issues that carry on well into their lives (sometimes their whole lives), such is what I believe Silverwolf was referring to. I am sure they will answer for themselves, but that is what I got from it.

Last edited by pappy1264; 04/04/08 08:42 PM.

Timmy, Gidget(RIP), Bandit, Petey(RIP), Phoebe, Jake (RIP) Piper(RIP), Pru(RIP), Paige, Cole, Molly(RIP), Oliver, Wyatt, Roo(RIP), Romeo, Pennie, Mandy(RIP), Madison, Garth, Kikipoo, Stasia, Bella, Petunia(RIP), Helen, Sydney, Kizzy and Sweet Pea's mom,
Mary
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #520768
04/04/08 08:46 PM
04/04/08 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
early onset HLP, severe malnutrition, severe dehydration, a parasite ... This little one was pulled from his mother at 3 weeks OOP,


I edited Val's post- to only contain the things that I can say are directly attributed to Steve Larkin.

This tiny glider was NOT bought at the PA expo - but rather bought directly from Steve Larkin. Yes - this IS Steve Larkin's joey.

Again - I obviously have only one side of the story. Granted - it came with pictures, and documentation about what horrible care this glider got from Steve.

But - I'm open to the other side of the story.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520769
04/04/08 08:46 PM
04/04/08 08:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict
Mel2mdl  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
Originally Posted By: ABRB
Do you blame the doctor who delivered your children for the illnesses that they get all through life? AMAZING


If the doctor who delivered your child, pulled them at a premature age for no other reason than money or convenience, gave you bad advice about how to care for the baby and that baby had health issues - that doctor would be responsible!

(My sister's friend was induced - the doctor had the wrong due date and the baby was only 26 or 28 weeks gestation. Guess what? 22 years later that doctor is still paying for health care issues. )



Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: pappy1264] #520772
04/04/08 08:47 PM
04/04/08 08:47 PM

L
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
L



Um.. i;m not a breeder here, and i dont indorse him AT ALL.. i think ANYONE who mass produces animals is NOT doing the right thing. It makes me NO MONEY AT ALL to slam him.. but you know what, this person, AMONG OTHERS are just NOT GOOD PEOPLE when it comes to the animal world. They are putting REAL LIVES in danger, lying to people, and trying to make a quick buck.

So what is his excuse for selling gliders with an intestinal parasite?? THAT was a well documented case.. So what is the answer for that>?

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520773
04/04/08 08:48 PM
04/04/08 08:48 PM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



TracieB

I am TRUELY sorry that you had such a bad start. I was not trying to pick on you - I have never seen or heard of any problems with Steve and I have visited his booth every time he has come to town, staying hours at a time. The babies are seemingly healthy and dispite what others say - I have never seen a babby that looked younger than 7 weeks OOP.
I wish you the best - and again - SORRY for your bad experience.

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520793
04/04/08 09:07 PM
04/04/08 09:07 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Well, if you look at the pictures I posted, then you HAVE seen a baby that STEVE himself sold WAY TOO YOUNG. This little one may not even survive. He was sold to a teenager, who was told that he was 10-11 weeks OOP. Steve was very happy to also sell her a cage that is too small and bad advice on diet. This baby CAME with parasites, malnutrition and dehydration, all of which are very well documented from the 9 times that this little one has been to the vet in the 5 weeks since he was bought from Steve.

I am very glad that you, ABRB have had good experiences with him. I am reminded every other hour when I have to supplement feed this little one and the twice a day I have to administer medications and sub-q fluids that Steve and others like him are NOT at all interested in what is best for these little ones.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #520800
04/04/08 09:14 PM
04/04/08 09:14 PM

T
tigg1268
Unregistered
tigg1268
Unregistered
T



truly heartbreaking pics.... def will keep u guys in my prayers gangel

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #520879
04/04/08 10:19 PM
04/04/08 10:19 PM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



Answers to several posts

I am not Steve - not his PR man - don't work for him
I guess that I am just quilty of believing in the breeder that has treated me well and I have seen no problem with. I am going strickly by experience - not rumor or gossip. My story is short and simple. I bought two gliders - they grew up happy and have had healthy joeys. Steve has alwys been there when I needed advice. So now I should HATE him?
Next - How many babies is a breeder supposed to have? If you make your living, selling sugar gliders - doesn't that mean that you will be breeding a good amount of them?
Next - My understanding is that Steve was one of the very first to start breeding and selling them. With this being a regulated and inspected business, If Steve is such a horrible breeder - Why has he not been shut down? They have had many, many years to do so.
Next - As for selling sick babies - I guess he is the only one in the breeding business to have a sick baby get sold. Wouldn't it be a wonderful world if we could all tell when something or someone is going to get sick? Who's to say he did this knowingly? My guess would be that, the teenager that bought the SG that "Jackie Chans Mom" has, did not buy that SG, looking like that. Of course that's possible too.
Yes, a responsible breeder would pull and treat his sick babies - and who's to say that he didn't try? How do you tell if you got them all or that a seemingly healthy group this week is going to get sick a week from now?
Lastly - I don't see where I contradicted myself. In my first post, it was only about Steve and the sale of the SG's to TracieB and in the following ones - the only thing that I said "wasn't Steve", was the Seller in PA.

Last edited by ABRB; 04/04/08 10:26 PM.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520905
04/04/08 10:45 PM
04/04/08 10:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidergrl1513  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
No one is saying you should hate him. If you have had a good experience - then good for you. I'm glad your babies are happy and healthy. That is what we all want for all sugar gliders, regardless of where they came from. I do not condone the actions of any mill breeder, I don't care who they are; mass producing any animal and selling to whoever has the money is wrong.

Yes, but when they are mass produced so severely that they do not get individual attention and out of cage time, then how is that responsible? I would bet that his breeders do not get the attention they deserve and that the cages are not 2'x2'x3' or have toys. IMO (take it for what you will) animals should not be bred to "make a living". Not when the animals are suffering for it - or even lacking for it. If a person feels they must breed, it should be for the love of the animal, to bring up healthy and happy babies, to spoil their animals rotten, and to share the joy of owning them as pets with people who are truly committed to giving them the best lives they can have.

He has not been shut down because, according to the USDA, his conditions are acceptable. But they do not know how proper important care is. Anyone with 1'x1'x1' cages, some food, and some water could get licensed if they know the right people (and it DOES happen that way in many cases with mill breeders).

No, he's not the only one to ever sell a sick baby. Did anyone ever say that he was? Even the most responsible breeder could have a joey fall ill. It can and does happen. The difference is that these breeders do all they can to help fix the problem and be there for support. And once they know about the issue, they go back to the source of the problem (whether it be a genetic problem, environmental, or just an accident) and fix THAT as well. I'm sure Steve does not know which joeys come from which parents after they are sold, so how would he know where the problem was coming from (assuming that he cared enough to want to do anything about it)?

I don't think the teenager bought the glider looking like that either. That poor baby is obviously very ill and it's obvious that Val is working very hard to get him better. Sugar gliders go downhill fast, but there probably were some indications that he was ill when he was for sale. However, it may not have been something that a new owner (probably never having seen a sugar glider before) would have known meant he was sick.

Again, there is no telling when a glider will get sick sometimes. But when there are that many problems, it's not something that happened "just because". There were reasons behind it - no responsible breeder would sell a glider to a brand new owner that has that many of those kinds of problems.. and I doubt they would have those kinds of problems anyway if the gliders are being cared for as they should be.

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520917
04/04/08 10:53 PM
04/04/08 10:53 PM

S
suggiemom
Unregistered
suggiemom
Unregistered
S



So you got lucky and ended up with a couple of healthy gliders....good for you. So, for that, we should all love him now? Ever feel like yer spittin' in the wind?


Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520961
04/04/08 11:27 PM
04/04/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: ABRB
If Steve is such a horrible breeder - Why has he not been shut down?


Just as other breeders who are known for horrible conditions, they have ways of avoiding the system and only show the USDA inspectors the "good" side of the business. There is no such thing as a surprise visit- so they always know when their coming & I'm sure clean house.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520976
04/04/08 11:47 PM
04/04/08 11:47 PM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



Yes - It does feel like I am Spitting into the wind.

How is it that - after many years of Steve, selling sugar gliders - I am the only "LUCKY ONE". Why could it not be that, of the hundreds of gliders that Steve has sold, over the YEARS - the few of you that have had problem.... were just the "unlucky ones"? It sure is easier to join the crowd or bandwagon and SLAM someone, than give them the benefit of the doubt. That's because of safety in numbers, I guess. I find it hard to believe that hundreds and hundreds of people, from the East coast to the West coast - have all gotten a raw deal from Steve... except me .. (of course) and he is STILL in business and there haven't been mass protests in his name. Of the many times I have hung out at his booth - I have never seen or heard anyone complain. You don't have to LOVE the guy - but if you haven't personally seen or heard any of this. How can you condemn him? I'm not disputing the sick sugar gliders.... but let's face it... sometimes these things happen. If I were to find out that Steve did these thing purposely - I would also be against him. but like I said - I have not personally experienced it and find it hard to believe that there are hundreds and hundreds of unhappy customers out there and no one comes back to the show to complain. He has a booth at all the same shows every year - so he wouldn't be hard to find.

Done spitting into the wind !!!

May you sugar gliders stay healthy

ABRB

Last edited by ABRB; 04/04/08 11:49 PM.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #520985
04/05/08 12:07 AM
04/05/08 12:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
As I said before: Please ... Please PLease!!! Change my mind!

You aren't really offering anything besides contradictions and irrational leaps of logic.

I'd LOVE to be shown how wrong I am. I'd LOVE for this to be a case of "mistaken impression."

Show me he isn't a mill breeder? Tell me his breeding pairs are in large cages with toys and wheels? Tell me he personally interviews every single person who buys from him?

Heck - tell me he responded to that sick glider's owner when she called him! Tell me he offered her money back... or to pay for vet fees ... or said he was sorry!

Tell me SOMETHING good! Besides "My gliders are healthy" I mean ...


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ValkyrieMome] #521007
04/05/08 12:48 AM
04/05/08 12:48 AM

L
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
LindsayAnnG
Unregistered
L



I agree with Val.. show us some proof to change our minds. You are giving us hearsay. these other people (multiple people btw) have documents from veterinarians that SHOW that those animals came from him sick.

If he is so proud of his breeding practices, why wouldnt he post pictures of his "breeding room" Why doesn't he come here and show us proof of vet checks on hundreds of gliders. Give us the name of his vet ANYTHING concrete. Dont even come here, just post is SOMEWHERE for the public to see.

HE is not the only one i disagree with about their breeding practices.. but i do disagree none the less. I think that ANYONE who uses animals as a main source of income then looses passion for it and it just comes about the money, like with ANYONE who needs to survive. ESPECIALLY a small business owner. I personally run a small business, i KNOW what it takes to keep afloat. I would NEVER apply that to my animals. It just NEVER turns out well for the animals when they are money makers. I'm sorry, there is nothing you can say to change my mind about that.. but PLEASE prove that he sells proper age joeys that are healthy and he has 100% healthy conditions for his breeders.

Do you know what he does with his retired females or males? Have you ever asked him that?

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ValkyrieMome] #521011
04/05/08 12:50 AM
04/05/08 12:50 AM

A
ABRB
Unregistered
ABRB
Unregistered
A



The ONLY differance between me and you - is that I have had personal contact with him and I can speak from my own experience. I have no more "PROOF" - I thought, that you were innocent until proven guilty. I see no proof of his mass wrong doing. Where are YOUR pictures of his facility and the breeder mill that you all talk about? A few sick gliders - does not make anyone a bad breeder. How is it irrational to think that very few complants - with hundreds and hundreds of past customers - people coming back to his booth the following year, to buy more gliders from him and him still having a successful business. That tells me that he is doing something RIGHT. You all want me to believe that Steve is corrupt - the USDA and all of its' inspectors are corrupt or maybe that this MASSIVE mill operation that Steve runs can be so very quickly cleaned up for inspections. You want me to believe that he keeps all of his breeders in really small cages and then PERHAPS, he moves them to another warehouse, with bigger cages that meet the inspection standards. Maybe he just "PAYS OFF" the inspectors.
Who's being irrational now?
And where have I contradicted myself?
I don't see your proof.

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #521017
04/05/08 12:59 AM
04/05/08 12:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidergrl1513  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
We are not being irrational. There are quite a few instances of "proof" that mill breeders will pay off USDA inspectors, or keep the bulk of their "stock" at a different location (there is even a mill breeder who has his warehouse in an illegal city - do you want to tell me that there is not something fishy going on there?). Personally, I don't have proof that Steve does these things, but I wouldn't put it past him.

The reason that we don't hear all of the terrible experiences from these mill breeders is that the impulse buying are supposedly told "all they need to know". If they are led to believe that they now know everything there is to know about glider care, why would most of them go looking for more? And if they don't go looking, how would we find them and hear their stories? But one thing you can do is talk to any of the rescuers in the areas where these mill breeders set up their booths. I'm sure you will find no shortage of sick, neglected joeys from uneducated impulse buyers.

Honestly, I have not heard many stories of people being happy with the gliders from mill breeders.. not many at all. The bad greatly outweighs the good in what I've heard.

You keep asking how he stays in business. How do businesses that use child labor in third world countries stay in business? We all know how bad it is, how wrong it is, how cruel it is, yet these people are still making money and selling their goods. Maybe people don't care enough or maybe there aren't enough regulations, but there are ways around morals if you want the money bad enough.

Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #521019
04/05/08 01:01 AM
04/05/08 01:01 AM

M
macwood6
Unregistered
macwood6
Unregistered
M



I have no idea who Steve is?? Never done business with him..

But I have to say one thing before I head off to bed..

If you are in such close contact with him, can you call or email him and ask him to come here and defend himself if the opinions and facts being written here are so wrong??

I would think if you are a happy customer interested in his reputation you would like for him to know about this and come here and discuss things things being said.

That should not be a problem-- I would think he if he is so caring he would be eager to clear up any questions and want this corrected so it would not hurt his business.
You say he is so helpful, well let him be helpful here.

I just want to add one thing-
can you ask him to bring references from some of his satisfied costumers ??
That to should be easy since most breeders keep that information handy for anyone interested in their gliders.

Last edited by macwood6; 04/05/08 01:05 AM.
Re: Gliders in PA being sold at expo, made the NEW [Re: ] #521020
04/05/08 01:01 AM
04/05/08 01:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Oh well. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

Because your responses are alienating and hostile, I'm not likely to be swayed by your "he is a nice guy because I said so" argument.

Perhaps you just don't understand that you came to a site where people feel passionately about the care and well-being of sugar gliders?

Perhaps you just like to argue.

Either way - I don't really care. You've done nothing to help me see your point of view. Only made me feel annoyed at your hostility. Too bad, because I really would have liked to hear your experiences.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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