Awww I know! Paraphrasing would even be great at this point! However, rules are rules I suppose <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> . Hopefully he gets back to you soon tonight!
Also, Ern, about the superscript stuff... all that is is another way of saying "per" because the superscripts are a negative value. It is standard in scientific notation to use negative values for values that fall in the denominator, just so it all remains on one line... so for instance:
In the Womberoo-presented formula 1.5 g per 0.75 kg per day, it is noted as 1.5 g kg [superscript]-0.75[/] d [superscript] -1 [/]
Also, I can't believe I over-looked this whole protein section back when you asked me about protein requirements those few months ago. LOL. I was an ignormaus! Anyway, it was really ShaunG's numbers that he got from GU that helped me come to a figure based on the formula. Who knows if that is even accurate...
wow after reading all that my head is buzzing and im amazed that some of it made sense. gee i think in the 5 months ive been here ive learnt more then when i was at highschool. i suppose if your really interested in stuff it sinks in. hey Mikey thanks for the green writing, its nice to just summerize after u read something. and wow Mikey, good looking, talented and smart. a rarity amoung humans.
Ahhhh Peri! Would you like your hug and kiss now or later?!
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" /> [:"green"]LEGEND: Follow the GREEN brick road to get there.[/]
I also forgot to mention that generally most captive gliders (particularly females) would require more protein than the calculated 0.1 g daily, also because I'm assuming the large majority of us glider owners allow our gliders to breed year-round, hence there would naturally be a greater demand for protein. The calculations I worked out previously were for an adult glider that was simply functioning under normal protein maintenance, and not in gestation or lactating.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/read.gif" alt="" /> [:"green"] Why we generally should provide over 0.1 g of protein daily to our gliders REASON #3: most of us allow the gliders to breed year-round, hence more dietary protein than 0.1 g daily would naturally be necessary; the 0.1 g of protein daily was calculated for a normal non-pregnant not lactating glider.[/]
[:"blue"] I haven't had a chance to fully digest the information in this section of the thread, yet; but thought I would throw out the following. There has been a lot of discussion about protein; but little or none about Ca:P ratios. It would also be interesting to compare the vitamin analysis of HPS with both Herptivite and Sustigen.
One thing I would like to mention is there seems to be some information that selenium is a necessary part of a marsupial diet. They don't need much but apparently do need some. Wombaroo HPS does contain a little selenium as does ENSURE. Herptivite and Vionate do not and I don't have any information on Sustigen.
BTW, if you are thinking about comparing vitamins and minerals, "DO NOT USE" the figures on the Wombaroo web site. There are some obvious mistakes with some of the figures and I have no idea which ones are correct and which are not. I was going to suggest that you use the information on an actual label; but given the recently discovered problem with Herptivite labels, that may not be a guaranteed source of accurate information either. [/]
[:"blue"] The guy from Wombaroo replied to my inquiry concerning the accuracy of the information on the web site and agreed that there were a few mistakes. He sent me a chart purported to be the correct figures which I have posted as an attachment. If someone has a package of the Wombaroo HPS and can compare their label with what I have posted, I would appreciate it. Seems like it is getting harder to find accurate information on the Internet and you have to double check everything to be sure it is accurate!!! [/]
Ok here is a label that Pockets scanned and sent to me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> The amounts on the label are expressed as percentages rather than volume per kilogram.
[:"blue"] Wake up, Charlie!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />
The numbers are not missing.....you just have to scroll right a little bit. You can't attach DOC files to GC posts and the TXT files don't always turn out exactly the way you would expect?? It is a pain though and I will reformat it so it is a little easier to read.[/]
I am able to change the protein level very easily by adding or subtracting amount in "PML" & I do (will explain at later date)
Also remember that when using 'Wombaroo High Protein Supplement' - you only need to use half the quantity because of its superior protein quality & higher concentration!
Winkle The original Leadbeater's mixture calls for 75 grams of High Protein cereal. If using the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement, you use less than half that amount, due to it's superior protein quality & much higher concentration.
I choose to lessen the amount of protein amounts I give to my <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s during the year - I personally feel that doing so is better for them.
No, it is not a complete diet, it is just the nectar mix, & it is as close to the original Leadbeater's mix I have been able to achieve - so far! The original Leadbeater's mix was never intended as a comple diet - just the nectar part of the diet!
Duh!! And to think I downloaded your attachment so I could add the quantities later and didn't catch my oversight. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
Thanks Winkle! And thanks to Ern and Randy. Now the PML makes sense to me. Probably need some expaliation about varying the amount of HPS to use. Also would help if you went into more detail about the amount and type of fruits, vegs, and insects. People who are new to gliders could get a little lost without a more detailed explaination. Charlie H
OK - I'm sure Pockets will be by shortly with her supreme knowledge of the product, but here's my best shot! LOL! This is an exerpt from my Wambaroo Specialty Products Pamphlet "High Protein Supplement" section -
Wambaroo High Protein Supplement can be substituted for the High Protien Cereal used in many food recipes for animals and birds. You only need to use half the quantity of the Wambaroo High Protien Supplement because of it's superior protien quality & higher concentration.
Providing protien intake supplies adequate levels of all essential amino acids then maintenance protien requirement for mammals ranges from about 1.5g to 6g per kg-0.75 per day. Protein requirement is related to the amount of energy expended. If there is gain in body weight then energy intake can be substituted for energy expended. An Average value of 6mg of protein per kJ of energy intake can be used to estimate maintenance protein requirement. For Wombaroo this translates into 90mg per kJ of energy or 4g per kg-0.75 per day. The amount of supplement needed will depend on the protein quantity and quality in the existing diet and the species of animal.
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Providing protien intake supplies adequate levels of all essential amino acids then maintenance protien requirement for mammals ranges from about 1.5g to 6g per kg-0.75 per day. Protein requirement is related to the amount of energy expended. If there is gain in body weight then energy intake can be substituted for energy expended. An Average value of 6mg of protein per kJ of energy intake can be used to estimate maintenance protein requirement. For Wombaroo this translates into 90mg per kJ of energy or 4g per kg-0.75 per day. The amount of supplement needed will depend on the protein quantity and quality in the existing diet and the species of animal.
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BTW I looked back and I found a typo in one of my posts; it should really read:
...meaning "blah blah" per 0.75 kg of digestible organic matter per day. I accidentally left out the negative sign (-) infront of the 1 (i.e. d exp -1)!
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Ok here is a label that Pockets scanned and sent to me <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> The amounts on the label are expressed as percentages rather than volume per kilogram.
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[:"blue"]Only partially true. Some items are expressed as a percentage and some are expressed as an amount(weight) per kilogram. [/]
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> ...BTW I looked back and I found a typo in one of my posts; it should really read...I accidentally left out the negative sign...
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[:"blue"]And in one of the earlier posts a decimal point was also left out. Don't think that one was yours, Mikey; but can't remember for sure.....doesn't really matter. But maybe this helps some folks understand why questions are asked and people are running around in a confused state!! [/]
I'd believe it if it was mine, though! LOL I reread some of my previous posts in this matter and there were one or two more typos and places where I didn't specify enough the units I was refferring to. I get too caught up in my explanations at times and it makes me forget even the real simple details, just because I'm an idiot like that!
