I understand that, but the majority of glider owners do not understand nutritional analysis or the ratios involved in diets. We now have members worried that they are killing their gliders and panicking when they are really feeding good diets... I'm not saying not to post this, but make sure when you do that you aren't causing a panic...

Quick question. I know that grains is a measurement so did you go by the measurement amount or by individual grains? The Sanctuary actually refers to feeding 5 individual granules per week not 5 grains (as in measurement). With that in mind, there is a lot more than 437.5 granules in two tablespoons unless of course the pollen grains are a lot bigger there than in Australia.

Also there is a signicifant difference in nutritional stats for the chinese pollen and australian pollen. 100g of chinese pollen has 35.0 protein (aus 23g), fat 5.0 (aus less then 1g), sugars 26.6 (aus 50g) etc.. I would never,ever feed the Chinese pollen due to poor quality control methods but it is most commonly used for repackaged sale due to pricing. It is half the price of australian pollen!

Dear Marz, I have a document from the sanctuary entitled "Healesville Sanctuary diets" dated August 2006. It has the diet data sheets for all of the animals at the sanctuary and I guess I few they don't even have...

I read the adjacent articles and I think you have discovered the source of some ambiguity. This does not change the formal analysis; however, as I used "tablespoons" for the HPW diet as that is what is published.

For my *informal* comparison between the respective diets' pollen usage, I did indeed use the "unit of measurement" of grains, not individual pollen granuals based on what I read. (of course, using granuals assumes you have granuals and not powdered pollen to begin with).

The reference on page 22 for sugar gliders is where they say: "5 pollen grains - once per week." I took the meaning to be "grains" not granuals as you suggest.

Interestingly; however, in the diet sheets for other marsupials, just adjacent to the glider one, they have listed a gram value expressed as follows:

Squirrel Glider:
0.4 g pollen grains - once per week.

Yellow Bellied Glider:
0.4 g pollen

Leadbeater's Possum:
0.2 g pollen grains - once per week

As you can see the notations are not consistent in this document. (note the Yellow-Bellied Glider nomenclature does not use the word "grains" nor does it stipulate "once per week" although I reckon that's implied, nor does the syntax of the sugar glider listing seem consistent with these).

That said, if we were to assume that the sugar glider sheet is supposed to say 0.5 g (grams), which sounds reasonable to me, here is what that turns out to be:

.5 g = 7.71616 grains

In the end, it looks like these amounts are ironically very close to each other and if this new assumption is correct, the HPW diet amount of pollen would be closer to 3x not 4x the Healesville diet. Either way, I am less concerned about the pollen amount now than I was before the analysis.

If you could shed light on whether or not the glider data sheet has been updated or if you think it is just wrong, please tell me.

Also, thank you for your advise regarding the source of pollens!

In a PM I have asked Peggy to rejoin the discussion.

Ok so here is the deal, Ed and I have worked things out . He isnt going to sound condesending anymore and Im not going to throw myself out of the conversation any more. Instead I am just going to tell him to hush and reread and throw mealies at his head and he is going to tell me when I am being hotheaded and need to have my head stuck in the freezer with the HPW.

Ok so Ed here is the deal...a couple things I am going to ask from you...dont duck, it isnt that bad...

1.) in your above thread you stated to Marz



Are you talking about the Healesville diet you mentioned or indeed the HPW diet? The reason I ask is because you have the amount wrong if it is the HPW that is linked from here. I offer 1-1/2 TEASPOONS per glider. So just wanted to check on that one as it reads rather confusing.

2.) Now, lets talk about confusing...one of the things that creates the panic and one of the reasons I left the thread. I really dont like to see so many people starting to wig out thinking they are doing wrong because they dont understand HOW to come up with the numbers. Is it good to just leave a thread as I did? NO it isnt and I WAS wrong in doing so. But normally when I come back in and try to explain things it turns ugly and the post winds up locked and I didnt want that to happen. So to Ed and everyone else, I apologize for leaving the way I did...back on topic now...

I think what you can do to help people out here is this...
Not all of us understand the ratio breakdown and how it is collected, me included as I stated earlier. I was told what to feed that would be safe and that is what I have fed for years with no issues and I personally dont plan to change it, but for those out there that do indeed what to be able to have a wide variety of food choices, maybe you can put like a sample chart up to show the choices YOU personally would feed along with the HPW and then show why. Explain how you come up with the 2:1 ratio and also what other vitamins it contains. such as (and I am just throwing things out there, I have no chart and these numbers WILL BE FALSE)

HPW
Mixed veggies (spinach 3:1 vit a, c iron... Carrots 2:1 beta carotene, vit a vit b1 green beans 1:1 vita vit d vit J (meaning just dont like them))
Mixed Fruits (Papaya 4:1 vit c iron, trace minerals, apples 1:4 vitc vita vite)

So now tell us why these are the right foods to choose to go along with the HPW diet in CHILDISH ENGLISH terms that ANY of us, including the young children (which I feel I am when it comes to figuring this stuff up)and how it adds up to the proper ratios and why we dont have to worry about the other vitamins and minerals in the foods.

Look, I told you those numbers would be WAY off, they were just made up because that is what they all look like to most of us when we are trying to figure it all out!!

What I am thinking here is maybe we should come up with like a *South Beach diet* plan for gliders!! Seriously.
Make a list of three different veggies and two fruits that can be offered with the HPW. These can either be fed nightly with the HPW or it will give you different choices if you want to switch it out nightly.

EXAMPLE AGAIN

HPW
green beans, peas, carrots
cantelope, honeydew melon

Next go
HPW
collard greens, corn, broccoli
papaya, apples

with the ratios always being *proper* or very very close to it.

Then if someone comes along and says ok, how about if I feed
HPW
collard greens, peas, broccoli
apples, cantelope

We will then be able to tell them, well that really isnt a good choice because the overall ratio for the fruits/veggies is either not high enough or too high.

See what I am saying?

But I do really think it is VERY important that everyone understand and know that it is NOT just the calcium that is a playing factor when it comes to diets.

One of the things I see (and I will probably get mealies thrown at me)and I am not saying you should NEVER feed, but people feeding potatoes. Even sweet potatoes. One thing people have to remember is that a potato turns right into glucose (sugar) when it is digested. There has been documentation on diabetic gliders which will also bring me to yet another concern, which I am currently looking into, so have no concrete proof but due to the diabetic gliders and living with a diabetic (type 1) made me think...

There are certain fruits out there that should be limited, mainly because of the vitamins they contain and also an overweight glider should be limited to the fruits due to the natural sugar intake especially when feeding the gliders HPW with the honey already in it.

Ok so now that I confused myself ten times worse (thanks Ed) and have confused all of you even more...I will turn this over to Ed and see what he thinks of the *Glider Beach diet*

PS...Thanks for the PM Ed.

What??? You - hotheaded??? You know I love ya Peggy! I'm glad to see you guys "playing nice"! I think everyone will benefit from it. Just couldn't let that one go though! lol

Ohhh Tracie...dont make me get the paddles out on you too missy!!!

[size:26pt]N[/color][size:23pt]O[/color][size:20pt]O[/color][size:17pt]O[/color]OO! You promised NOT to! lol

I am so missing this paddle thing...

I have been reading all of this and it is quite interesting to me. The one question I have is how do you find out the Ca:P ratio of the fruits and veggies? I feed a wild variety every night simply because I keep tons of different kinds of fresh veggies and fruits (for myself and the kids) so what I do it reach in and grab a few of each and make a mix. I guess I was thinking variety more than ratio's so I need to learn more about what is in those fruits and veggies so I can pay more attention to the balance. I guess I do have one more question. As far as how to prepare the fruits and veggies, how small should they be? Do they need to be blended? Any of them need to be cooked? I am a first time glider owner so I am just starting to learn all of this.

This is really for the good of the gliders! I'm glad you guys have worked things out.

You may have paddles, but *I* have a wet noodle gun. I'd SO hate to have to shoot you both!

River, you can look up the nutritional content of practically any food on www.elook.org. Just go the Nutritional Information link. You can either scroll through by letter or click the search.

It will bring up the values for a 100 gram serving (as well as a conversion like 1 cup (16 tablespoons) = XXX grams). To get the Ca:P ratio, just scroll down and find the Calcium and Phosphorous values. Divide the Ca number by the P number, and you have the ratio. You are looking to a total mix of somewhere between 1.5 and 2.

That doesn't mean that EVERY item has to be 1.5-2 in Ca:P. However, if you feed one "low ratio" food, you should feed an equal amount of "high ratio."

As others have noted, a variety is still important so that they get all the other vitamins and minerals they need.

I think Ed meant that he calculated the pollen weight for the HPW mix based on the 2 Tablespoons per batch listed in the diet.

Well guess I should be smacked with a wet noodle!! If that doesnt make sense now that I go back up and read it, I dont know what would!!

Thank you Block

Peggy, first thank you for coming back to the discussion. I wanted to have a separate post just to say thanks :-) I'll try to answer your questions in a separate post below...

Cheers, Ed

Yes it is confusing, I'm sorry. I was saying that the HPW diet calles for two tablespoons of honey and at the "batch level" that's where I derived the numbers for the analysis. The mention about the Healesville diet was to compare the amounts. But there is some ambiguity between the different animals' diet plans in the Healesville "book." My note to Marz was showing how inconstent the notations are. My guess is that they really mean .5 grams of pollen per glider per week, not 5 grains of pollen per glider per week. I am guessing this is true based on the notations adjacent to the glider data sheet in other possum species. I think it bears mentioning here that I did openly question the "hypoloading" of pollen in the HPW diet, and although that comment was hyperbolic, it was probably undeserved. In the end, and after having done the nutritive analysis, the amount of bee pollen in the HPW diet seems OK. I can tell you it is not so easy getting definitive information on the conent of bee pollen. Unfortunately, it is not on my favorite site "nutrtiondata.com." A lot of the data came from an Australian government RIRDC report and the remainder from a few other specialty web sites. That's how I pieced it together. Here are just a few of the URLs I had resarched to get the pollen data:

http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HBE/01-047.pdf
http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/7/11/193201.shtml
http://www.alternativescentral.com/beepollen.htm

Interestingly, pollen is somewhat of a chameleon because its contents, including mineral ash, change depending on the source plants the bees collected the material from. For this analysis, I used the higher 35% protein content number...



That's understandable. In fact, I love your idea about the "Glider Beach diet."

Peggy, your example has prompted me to do the same thing but to do the calcuations so the ratios are pretty close.

Along those lines, you can use the following fruit and veggie combinations (along with the HPW diet mix of course) which are reasonably consistent with the 2:1 ratio (below). So if people don't want to figure, but they want some variety, they can do something like this (it is a little more than two tablespoons so there will be some waste). So if people want to try a variety of fruits and veggies with their HPW diet but we don't want panic, they can do this:

Sunday: 2 blackberries. 2 (domestic) grapes. 1 small orange slice. 1 teaspoon chopped broccoli. 1 tablespoon chopped parsley.

Monday: 2 tablespoons of Papaya and 1 tablespoon of Banana. 2 small slices of cucumber and 1 tablespoon of corn.

Tuesday: 2 small slices of apple and 2 small slices of orange. 1 tablespoon chopped collard greens or kale. 1 teaspoon of peas.

Wedesday: 2 tablespoons of Pineapple. 3 (domestic) grapes. 1 tablespoon chopped cabbage leaf. 1 teaspoon peas.

Thursday: 2 tablespoons of watermelon. 2 small slices of orange. 1 small slice of squash or cucumber. 1 teaspoon corn.

Friday: 2 blackberries. 2 (domestic) grapes. 1 orange slice. 1 teaspoon chopped broccoli. 1 tablesppon chopped parsley.

Saturday: 2 tablespoons of Papaya and 1 tablespoon of Banana. 2 small slices of cucumber and 1 tablespoon of corn.

OK, so what you just saw above is the "Glider Beach diet" kind of idea that Peggy was suggesting. Here, in the daily rotation example I gave, you have a pretty good mix that is pretty close to a 2:1 CA:PH ratio each day. In other words, if you just use what is prescribed above for fruits and veggies, there is little to worry about and you don't have to do any tedious figuring...

NOW, and this is a different discussion for those of you who wish to try to do the balancing on your own... I have tried to put this into plain english but unfortunately there is still just a little math. But it's not too bad math-wise because all you have to do is some adding and then one act of division. So if you promise not to freak out, here is more of a step-by-step explanation of how to do the basic figuring in case you want to venture out from the "Glider Beach diet" example:

[It is absolutely true that it is not ALL about Calcium:Phosphorus and that other minerals and vitamins must be taken into account. But the generic 2:1 ratio is kind of a starting point. Once you "get" this, you can move on to balancing the other minerals and vitamins - this is a simple starting point].

OK, so first, we will discuss how the "ratio" is figured out for ONE item. Then, we will talk about how to figure it for more than one item and then how to change the quantity of one of the items in order to bring the ratio in line...

The way to figure out the ratio for a single item is to simply divide the calcium figure by the phosporus figure.

EXAMPLE:

a cup of Papaya has 33.6 mg of Calcium and 7 mg of Phosphorus.

33.6 divided by 7 = 4.8

So you take the 4.8 and you put a :1 after it and you have 4.8:1

4.8:1 means there is just shy of 5x the Calcium as Phosphorus in Papaya.

Now, this 4.8:1 ratio is not the 2:1 ratio we are looking for, so the idea is to add a portion of another fruit that will offset this to bring the ratio a little closer to 2:1. Let's look at an example of how to do that.

Like before, let's use Papaya as an example:

Calcium = 33.6 mg
Phosphorus = 7 mg.

Now, let's look at something on the other extreme side of the scale - Banana (one small one is about a cup):

Calcium = 7 mg.
Phosphorus = 27 mg.

Observe how these two fruits are kind of "opposite" one another. In this example, if you wanted a 2:1 ratio, you'd have to DOUBLE the amount of Papaya in order to offset the Phosphorus content in the banana.

Now let's check to make sure that would work. OK, lets figure one cup of Papaya and a HALF cup of Banana. That would be:

1 c. Papaya Calcium: 33.6 mg
.5 c Banana Calcium: 3.5 mg
Total Calcium in both: 37.1 mg

1 c. Papaya Phosphorus: 7 mg
.5 c Banana Phosphorus: 13.5 mg
Total Phosphorus in both: 20.5 mg

Now we can take the total Calcium and total Phosphorus and do the division like we did in the Papaya-only example to see how close we come to a 2:1 ratio by serving half as much Banana as Papaya:

Calcium 37.1 mg divided by Phosphorus 20.5 mg = 1.8

That's the same as saying 1.8:1 meaning if we use the simple "cutting in half" of the banana we get pretty close to a 2:1 ratio.

So the idea is (only if you want to do your own figuring) that you take these steps:

1. You take a look at the fruits and veggies you have available to you.

2. You look at the cheat sheet to see what the values are per unit (how much CA and how much PH in mg)

3. Judging from where the items are (on the top of the list vs. the bottom) take a guess at how much more of one thing than the other you need so that there is twice as much Calcium as Phosphorus.

4. After guessing, you then jot down the amount of CA and PH for each item based on your guess (like we did above).

5. Add up the changed Calcium numbers and add up the changed Phosphorus numbers (from all the fruits or veggies you are using)

6. Divide the Calcium number by the Phosphorus number
and the answer is your ratio. If the answer is close to "2" (2 is the same as saying 2:1), then you are good to use the proportions you figured. If not, reduce the amount and re-divide until you get pretty close to 2 (2:1).

Of course if the unit of measurement is "cup" you simply change it to "Tablespoon" for the actual serving size...

It is a good idea to rotate both the fruits and veggies so your gliders get a good sampling of vitamins and minerals from the variety. This insures a well-balanced approach. In the "Glider Beach diet" example above, I was sure to mix in a variety that offers Vitamin E, trace amounts of Iron, The A's and B complexes and some protein. The rest of the minerals and vitamins are sufficient in the pollen and the HPW powder.

OK, I hope this helps a little. Here we have discussed a simple plan you can follow of a variety of fruits and veggies with the ratios already figured out AND we have discussed how to figure the ratios on your own.

LOL, I'm reading all of these well thought out combos of fruits and veggies and I'm thinking about the bowls I pull out of my cage every morning... LOL

My gliders can't read this! And if they could, they wouldn't care!

Just as you claimed not to be on a "diet" I think that they are pretty unaware that they are on one. They see an aray of fruits and veggies, just like we see a selection of foods when we open our fridge... and they decide what they want to eat and how much of it. They decide what the "ratios" are, not us.... sure we try are best to manipulate it towards the 2:1, but how often does that really happen???

Am I the only glider owner who has this happen? Do all your gliders eat everything you put out as part of your well ballanced diet? or do they pretty much eat what they choose? You offer the best and they eat what they will... ?

All this STRESSING OUT can't be good... Quite frankly I need to go take an antianxiaty after reading that last post of yours... its all a bit much! I really thought I was doing ok... And the longer this goes on the more I'm starting to worry... And I really was rooted in my feelings... But yikes man... I feed this diet!

Kathryn our gliders can't read either, and they likely share your gliders' indifference. Ours can also be picky so we blend sometimes to overcome that pickiness :-)

My most recent post apparently failed in its core message:

1. If you don't want to figure, try this simple rotation
2. If you do want to figure, here is an example of how

Admittedly, I was selfishly involved in trying to answer some questions put to me and also trying to stay in the spirit of the topic at hand. I responded to what I thought was an excellent idea from Peggy to come up with a simple rotation with the ratios pre-figured. Then I tried to explain plainly as I was asked to, how the ratios work.

Now considering also the topic of this discussion:

HPW diet NUTRITIONAL ANALYSIS

Doesn't that title in itself engender a certain geekiness and a leaning towards detail? I reckon the topic is taking its natural course along those lines and the dialog has been appropriate. One wonders why anyone not wishing for detail and its assocaited dialog would care to subject themselves to the tedium of such a topic.

I therefore strive to be diligent and complete in my answsers in order to be true to the topic at hand. Consider also how a short answer that does not address the question may be perceived as disrespectful by the person who asks it. Vainly, perhaps, I am also hoping that there are fellow suggie lovers that actually appreciate the dialog and who quite the opposite of needing to be medicated, actually find comfort in it.

I will not go happily into the rest of my day knowing that my words cause you to take anxiety medicine. Unless, of course you were being facetious about that and only meant to publicly mock me. Not knowing your sense of humor I am duly humbled by your sentiment.

I don't know if it was just easier to read or what...but I think I get it now...at least I'm beginning to. I think to start out, I will use your suggested "South Beach..." diet...but to try to figure out my own combinations, seems more...attainable now.

Thank you Peggy and Ed...your great appreciation for these little crittes we love so much, makes me WANT to learn. And now, I think I am!

Many thanks

I've blended to with only a single nights success... and lots of failure! They aren't juice bar fans. I wish they were.

As a responsible glider owner how can I pass by a thread such as this one? But I have to be honest the more I read the more stressed out I've become! I've contacted people through PM's and IM's seeking reassurance that my gliders are ok with their diet and still I'm stressed.

Reading your food combining segment was a bit much for me.... I saw GREAT combos lots that I have used myself!They look good on paper and the numbers add up but I can just picture pulling out half eaten bowls each morning. Just like I do now.... What then? Have I totally messed up their diet cause your REALLY putting a lot of weight on these fruits and veggies.

I know they are important... But yikes.. they don't live on farms in the wild. Perfectly balanced farms.

No I'm not trying to be facetious, the more I read, the more it freaks me out! I care very deeply for my babies! And I would never want to jeopardize their health. But short of tube feeding them a smoothie, I'll never get your proposed mixes down them. And it sounds like they will be malnourished if I don't....

Sorry... But it just freaks me out a bit.

Oh, and by the way, your patronizing me is quite offensive.

The way I look at it is this - if you provide everything their bodies need, they'll eat it as needed.

Ever get cravings for anything? Sometimes I feel like I just have to have a bannana... and I HATE bannanas! Guess my body knows I need potassium or something.

If you watch gliders closely, you'll see that some nights they eat more of something and other nights they won't touch it!

I think that as long as you provide them a good balance, they'll work the rest out!

Thats what I always thought???

Kathryn, I was hoping against all hope that you were being facetious about my words driving you to medicine. Now you have clarified that you were not being facetious. To be gracious about it, my giving you an anxiety attack is far worse than the slight insult suggested by that same proclamation.

I beg you to consider that the completeness of my replies and the nature of my style should not be read as being patronizing. They are more of an honest disclosure of my intent and meaning. I respectfully submite to you that is not patronizing.

Patronizing is when you attempt to suggest that the person you are addressing is not smart enough to understand. I did not do that with you at all. I carefully explained my position and made observations about the intent of this post. Another example of being patronizing would be if I failed to recognize the sincerity or importance of your words and then implied that your opinion is not as important as mine. That to would have been patronizing. I did none of those things to you.

My questioning whether or not you were attempting to be humorous versus ridiculing me was appropriate. In doing that I was giving you the option of clarifying your comment so I would not read you the wrong way. You have taken that opportunity now and seem to have clarified your original intent.

I meant no hostility towards you and I still don't. I hope that is reciprocal. Perhaps you do not like my use of irony in osbervation. But please do not mistake those qualities for being patronizing as that is truly not my intent.

This topic was meant to be, and I am hopeful it can continue to be, an intellectual exercise that allows all of us to explore and share ideas that may be helpful in our suggie husbandry.

I am once again humbled by your sentiment and I say that truly, and with no hint of sarcasm.

LOL last night my gliders ate the "diet and NOTHING else.. but that was there choice not mine. So they only got one mealie and that was it and I put them to bed. LOL.. I guess they will eat tonight.. I think it has something to do witht he weather change or something..
I wrote down the food nights and stuff. It will come in handy later.. Thank you so much for doing that. I just got to get them to eat the HPW.. I got to get them to be NORMAL gliders LOL and not spoiled brats! HAHAHAH this could be fun
sarah

ugh....

Over it. I'm insulted that you feel the need to give me definitions of words. Believe it or not I have a college education and I am well aware of exactly what I said.

I'll remove myself from the conversation, as I feel my point has been made and quite frankly it IS stressing me out!

I just hope that some poor noob doesn't find this and get overwhelmed!

And again... your patronizing manner is very insulting.

Yes, Sarah, they'll be good and hungry tonight I bet.

You are welcome, I hope that rotation idea does indeed come in handy.

We owe thanks Peggy in all fairness because it was she who inpired me to do that with her idea up above here.

Let us know if you want any help on this....

I think I am getting the ratio thing.. I have been looking at the packages alot and I am now trying the math.. mind you is my up most worst subject. I am glad if I need help I know I can come here to get it.. THANK YOU LUCKY AND PEGGY!! I have to figure out how to save this so I can go back to it when I need to figure out the math part LOL..
thanks again
sarah

Sarah - at the top of the topic, there is a little box called Topic Options. Click on that, and an drop box will open. You select "Save Topic to Watched Lists" (something like that).

Then, at any time you can go to "My Stuff" and click on that, and go to "My Watch Lists" and the topic will show up in there.

I have to do that all the time! I know there are posts that I'll need again!

With some more undertanding, you will see are no ambiguities or inconstistencies in the document when it comes to feeding of pollen.

It is 5 pollen grains per week not grams or grains in weight. If you looked at that doc, you will see the tiny creatures like the antechinus and feathertail glider only have 1 grain per week. These guys are the size of a mouse.


The squirrel glider is a larger animal than a sugar glider so therefore they can start weighing the amount of pollen so they are fed 0.4grams per week. It appears that the Yellow bellied glider actuaully eat more pollen in the wild and being up between four to eight times heavier than a sugar glider it does get fed pollen nightly which is there is no "per week" in the diet document. Just because they are all gliders doesn't mean their needs are similar. In fact the Greater glider's diet is purely Eucayptus leaves and in fact, rarely drinks water! (just like the koala)

You will see some variances in amounts of pollen given in comparison to size of the animal and there is a good reason for this. For instance the Eastern Pygmy Possum which weighs a whopping 15-43gms in weight yet gets 2 grams on pollen each week. This is because pollen is a major part of this little animal's diet and because all these diets have been carefully researched from their needs in the wild.This is why the variances of pollen appear in the diet document otherwise they would ratio out the pollen purely for the size of the animal.

There is no missing g next to the 5 and there is no error when it comes to the yellow bellied glider.


Hope that helps in your researching.

Cheers Marz

Wow Marz, as Johnny Carson used to say:

"I did not know that!"

If you will indulge me further, my original purpose in trying to compare the HPW diet versus the Healesville vis a vis pollen as that it has been generally observed that the pollen amount in the HPW diet was high.

Now my comparison was clearly flawed but this does not change the nutrtional value observations of the HPW diet.

Anyway, since the pollen we get from exoticnutrition.com is not in grain form but is "powdered," do you have any suggestions for figuring how to compare 5 bee pollen grains (granules?) against two tablespoons of bee pollen (powdered)?

Any guidance on that would be helpful. Thanks again!