This is related to Gizmo's illness, but of another topic.

Metacam is prescribed as a pain medication for dogs. In order to give it to sugar gliders, some adjustments are needed.

The local vet (not Gizmo's exotic vet) did some calculations. I asked them to explain to me how they got to it, as it did not make sense as it seemed like a lot of medication for his tiny body. They initally made a mistake with the calculations - it is a good thing I can be such a pain regarding my gliders!


I told the local vet that as far as I know, it is not safe to use Metacam with sugar gliders for more than 3 days. (I may be wrong, but think that I have read it somewhere). She insisted that when diluted 1:10 he can continue to use it.

I need some advice. Tonight will be the second night.

Regardless of the dosage, do not use it more than three days. With gliders it can cause liver damage and even fatal liver failure.

I told her!!!!! Where can I get information on this so I can go and confirm this with her?

I have also heard this from my vet. When Paganini was so ill, our next step in pain relief for him that my vet spoke of was using morphine. I was pretty shocked about that!

Morphine!!!!!!!!! WOW , scary Wendi. I still think of your little Paganini.

My lil girl Finn was on metacam. But dont give any longer then 3 days.

Good Luck!

Metacam is not a "bad" medicine. It is an anti inflamitory and it does have it's purpose but it shouldn't be given to gliders for more than three days. For just pain management, Torbitol is a better choice as it can be given more often and it can be given long term without the damage to the liver that metacam can cause.

Just though I would add to this. When we discussed Metacam with my vet (he had prescribed it for 4-5 days) he explained in the diluted dose he gave it would be okay. He had said in a higher concentration, yes, there would be a risk or organ damage.

Erin, Spencers vet says the same thing about it. it is prescribed daily.

My concern is that Gizzie is on other medication to boost his liver, and now he is on Metacam that may cause liver damage!

Teresa, I will find out about Torbitol, thank you.

I have given metacam (a diluted dose) for a long period to two of my gliders - both still living and bloodwork never indicates liver damage. One of these gliders is Jackie Chan, and his progress and health are well documented.

Torb is a cheaper medication for pain managment, and does have its advantages, but it is also very short lasting (around an hour or so), so is not that effective in controlling pain for more serious issues. Metacam is much longer lasting.

I would love to hear of some documented proof of metacam causing liver damage in sugar gliders. I have asked this many times, but have never been given any solid PROOF. I do believe we should err on the side of caution, but sometimes I think we are told things so many times that we believe them with nothing to back up the statement.

From my experiences, gliders CAN be given a diluted dose of metacam over a longer period than 3 days with no damage done. There will always be exceptions, of course. Are my gliders that exception? I don't know. Still waiting for proof either way.

Yes, where can we find documented proof?

Haley was on Metacam just over a month and her liver was fine. I wish I could give more input but that is all I have for you.

My vet had actually mentioned kidney damage, I can ask about documentation next time I see him.

Metacam can cause kidney damage, aka renal failure, in cats and dogs...why wouldn't it in sugar gliders? The clinic I work at does presurgical bloodwork on all animals before prescribing metacam.

Ok, I thought it was liver damage...is it kidney damage? Or could it be both?

My vets (3 different ones) have told me not to use metacam on gliders for more than three days IF at all because of the potential for organ damage. Having listened to my vets and taken their advice, I've not used it more than three days so have not had any adversely effected gliders.

Just as I posted in a previous thread:

I have given metacam (a diluted dose) for a long period to two of my gliders - both still living and bloodwork never indicates liver OR kidney damage. One of these gliders is Jackie Chan, and his progress and health are well documented.

Metacam has its advantages as it is both an anti-inflammatory and a pain medication. It is a long lasting pain medication, so it is sometimes the best option for managing pain.

I would love to hear of some documented proof of metacam causing liver or kidney damage in sugar gliders. I have asked this many times, but have never been given any solid PROOF. I do believe we should err on the side of caution, but sometimes I think we are told things so many times that we believe them with nothing to back up the statement.

From my experiences, gliders CAN be given a diluted dose of metacam over a longer period than 3 days with no damage done. How many days are safe? I can't say, I can only say that Jackie and Nugget both had it for more than 30 days straight. There will always be exceptions, of course. Are my gliders that exception? I don't know. Still waiting for proof either way.

I think it is more of a case of "can" rather than "will" cause damage. Many animals probably wont have an issue, but some will and that is why they err on the side of caution.

The Healesville sanctuary vets recommend no more than 5 days at a time on meloxicam (metacam)for gliders and possums. Dosage rates are quoted and they are highly reduced amounts after the first initial dose.

Took the words right out of my mouth!

I came across these articles:

http://www.qwrc1.org.au/rnr/10.pdf

Metacam is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID). The active ingredient is meloxicam. Inflammation and pain are triggered by the release of hormones known as prostaglandins. NSAIDS work by stopping the production of prostaglandins responsible for
swelling and pain. This makes the animal much more comfortable following accident or surgery.
Metacam is a new generation NSAID that acts selectively on just one group of prostaglandins, thus resulting in fewer side-effects. Metacam is used post-operatively
for cats and dogs, and for musculosketal disorders in dogs.

In wildlife it may be used in cases of trauma that result in swelling or inflammation, or post-operatively.
Metacam offers only MILD pain relief and is often used in conjunction with other pain relief drugs.

Like all drugs designed for cats and dogs, the dose rates for our smaller native species are very,
very small.

Metacam does not mix with water, so simply diluting the drug in water does not give an easy ‘half dose’. Metacam should not be used on animals with certain gastrointestinal disorders, impaired hepatic, cardiac or renal function, or haemorrhagic disorders. The use of Metacam with other NSAIDs, diuretics, anticoagulants and some antibiotics can cause toxic effects, and even death. Metacam should NEVER be given to a dehydrated animal. As with all drugs, never administer Metacam to an animal without first consulting a veterinarian.
by Sue White (wildlife carer)


http://www.k9obedience.co.uk/doghealth/treatment/rimadylandmetacam.html

Metacam (Meloxicam) under scrutiny

Metacam is another Non-Steroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug (NSAID's) which is also prescribed for relieving the inflammation and pain associated with arthritis and other bone and joint problems which dogs can suffer from.

Listed adverse effects are:
• Loss of Appetite
• Lethargy
• Diarrhoea
• Blood in stools
• Dark, tarry stools

The most serious adverse effects associated with all NSAID's occur in the Gastro-intestinal tract such as ulceration and bleeding. All NSAID'S can cause liver damage in dogs.

3,200 dogs had died or been euthanized and nearly 20,000 dogs had adverse effects within a few years of the emergence of NSAID's, though one must add that by then several million dogs in thousands of veterinary surgeries had been prescribed the drugs.

Caution should be taken when prescribing NSAIDs.

The drug companies still maintain that if prescribed correctly, laboratory tests have been carried out and the dog is carefully monitored their medicines are safe.

“Confident that there are millions of animals whose lives have improved by the pain-relieving benefits of Any owner being prescribed one of the NSAID's for their dog should always ask for a client information sheet explaining the possible side effects of the drug and what to look out for. These are not automatically handed out by vets who buy shipments of the drugs from pharmaceutical companies then repackage them in smaller quantities for the client. In the process, the information sheets may be lost and the vet often does not clearly communicate the importance of monitoring the dog for adverse effects.

Before prescribing NSAID's the vet should carry out appropriate tests to establish blood values. These tests are expensive and not all dogs are covered by insurance. Often owners refuse testing being carried out as they struggle to pay veterinary bills. While the dog is taking NSAID's the animal should be closely monitored. Owners should be aware that even what seems a minor side effect such as lethargy can quickly progress into an emergency scenario.

NSAID's should not be combined with other steroids like dexamethazone, prednisolone, or depomedrol as gastro-intestinal ulceration and bleeding can result. These drugs should also never be given to any dog with impaired gastro-intestinal, kidney, cardiovascular, or coagulation problems.

More information on the adverse effects of NSAID's can be viewed at: www.dogsadversereactions.com/nsaid/comparison.html

Michele Sharkey, DVM says:

"The side effects of NSAID's are very well known and very well documented but this information is not always getting to the pet owners. If the pet owner can recognise a possible reaction, stop the medication and get veterinary help, it could mean the difference between a good outcome and a disaster.”

Stephen Sundlof, DVM, PhD, director of the Centre for Veterinary Medicine (CVM) says:

“These are valuable drugs that help many pets to live to a ripe old age”.

Millions of dogs have benefited by taking NSAID's worldwide and on the whole these drugs give excellent pain relief for many arthritic dogs. With adequate pre-screening, intensive monitoring and improved communication between the veterinarian and the client adverse reactions to these drugs could be reduced.

Linda Baker, of "Adopting A Dog" said:

“Adverse drug reactions in dogs is still a little known, misunderstood topic which needs much more public education.”
Summary:

Any drug that dog owners give to their pets can have serious side effects and as owners we have the right to know as much as possible about any veterinary medication that we give our dogs just as we have the right to know about medicines we take ourselves.


Additional interesting reading when it comes to humans:

http://www.nsaids.info/nsaids/nsaid-drug-listing/

Oxicams
Enolic acid, a carbon- and hydroxyl-containing molecule (C=C–OH) made from carboxylic acid, is the base from which oxicam drugs are derived.
NSAIDs that are Oxicams
Droxicam
Lornoxicam
Meloxicam
Piroxicam
Tenoxicam



http://www.chiroweb.com/find/archives/general/consumer/nsaids.html/t_top

The authors are quick to note that different NSAIDs are no doubt associated with different degrees or types of risk, and that these risks may be influenced by patient-related factors such as age or disease. However, they also note that their results "strongly" suggest that chronic oral NSAIDs pose a high risk of adverse effects and urge that "patients receive minimum effective doses for the minimum possible time."


http://searchwarp.com/swa258501.htm

Liver and Renal Failure

Many people do not consider NSAID as drugs. Thus, they just take it without much consideration. Although the cases of liver and renal failure due to the prolonged and frequent use of NSAIDs are very few, the seriousness of this complication should be a real cause for concern. Experts believe that taking too much NSAIDs for several years could contribute to liver and kidney failure because of the way these drugs, particularly naproxen, affect urination and the overall metabolic system of the body.

http://www.arthritis-glucosamine.net/article-detail.php?ID=89

The FDA Identifies Safety Problems With NSAID Use

The FDA has been more closely examing NSAIDs in recent years and publishing repeated warnings about some serious problems associated with their use. In September 2002, the Nonprescription Drugs Advisory Committee, along with experts from other committees, examined the evidence of U.S. cases of accidental and unintentional overdoses with NSAIDs and acetaminophen and related cases of gastrointestinal (GI) and renal (kidney) toxicity and identifed certain risk factors. The advisory committee's discussions and advice are at: http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/ac/cder02.htm#NonprescriptionDrugs
In January 2004, the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research (CDER) reiterated the concerns raised by the 2002 investigation when the CDER sent a letter to every State Board of Pharmacy to advise of safety issues for products containing NSAIDs or acetaminophen -- more specifically, the risk factors for GI bleeding and renal toxicity from their use.
Conclusion

Has enough been said about the dangers associated with NSAID’s? If you have not read the information on our websites and in “The Arthritis Chronicle,” please do so.
Stay with what we all know is clinically safe. If you suffer from osteoarthritis, high-quality glucosamine formulas can help control your pain and rehabilitate damaged cartilage without causing you to face all of the safety problems associated with NSAIDs.

I haved used it with no side effects or anything on my gliders.

Just with any drug we take- there can always be side effects. It just depends on the glider I think. It could cause kidney damage on one glider and another will be ok with being on the Metacam.

We as glider owners need to watch and make sure we also give the correct dosage.

This is true of ANY medication we give our babies.

I think that all of us understand that with ANY drug there are possible side effects and complications. What I don't like seeing is the panic we tend to ignite when we tell people "don't give it for more than 3 days, it can cause damage!" If a vet says give it for 10 days, and we have NO evidence that 10 days is, in fact, any more dangerous than any other drug MIGHT be, then why do we worry so many new owners, or owners already stressed from dealing with an injury in their baby? Often, we act like metacam is this big, bad, dangerous drug, when in fact, it is very helpful in many situations - and often the one I CHOOSE to use because it is so good at controlling swelling and pain.

I have always wondered where the "3 days only" thing came from also. WHERE Did that come from? Who started telling everyone that more than 3 days is dangerous? Why 3 days - why not 5, or 7, or 10....? Where did "no more than 3 days" come from?

MY opinion is that it is better to educate owners about the possible side effects of ANY medication they are prescribed and let the vets determine the number of days a medication should be given. After all, the POSSIBLE effects of metacam are just as serious as the POSSIBLE side effects of torb, baytril, flagyl, TMPS, and so on. One must ALWAYS weigh risk vs. benefit.

Val, I don't know where that "no more than three days" came from, but my vets seem to believe it. It wasn't anything I told them, they told me.

In fact, one of my vets, that I use ONLY for laser neutering, refused to give the boys metacam after neuters because he insisted that it was too hard on their livers. Well, the boys GOT their metacam after the neuters, but only because I firmly insisted.

I agree, the intention of the post was to be informational covering pro's and cons of metacam.

After conducting the research I had a discussion with my vet and feel much more at ease now. In fact, no decision related with any medication should be taken without consulting with one's vet.

There are pros and cons with any medication.

The following can be taken from my previous post, related to Metacam:

PROS:
This makes the animal much more comfortable following accident or surgery.
In wildlife it may be used in cases of trauma that result in swelling or inflammation, or post-operatively.
The drug companies still maintain that if prescribed correctly, laboratory tests have been carried out and the dog is carefully monitored their medicines are safe.
...there are millions of animals whose lives have improved by the pain-relieving benefits...

CONS:
Metacam does not mix with water, so simply diluting the drug in water does not give an easy ‘half dose’.
Loss of Appetite
Lethargy
Diarrhoea
Blood in stools
Dark, tarry stools
All NSAID'S can cause liver damage in dogs.

NB:
Metacam should NEVER be given to a dehydrated animal.

i have used it as well for dolce's pouch infection....but i did hear about the cons of it. dolce's pouch is no longer infected and she seems to be doing great! now my concern is gabbana when i noticed a little swelling on her finger...one vet suggested to give her some metacam, but i will have to talk with their actual vet that was absent when i called. when i did ask him about why not baytril instead of metacam, he said baytril is a stronger antibiotic....what is the difference between both??

Ok, first off....metacam is NOT an antibiotic. It is a pain reliever that helps reduce swelling.

Baytril IS an antibiotic. It is used to fight infection.

These are two different types of medicines with very different functions.

can both be taken at the same time?
for the pouch infection and swelling he prescribed metacam and some antibiotic trim sulfrate(not sure how to spell it)...so is baytril a similar, if not, same function as the trim sulfa?

It would be best to clear this with your vet.

yes, the sulfa is an antibiotic and yes, they can be taken at the same time.

That's what he prescribed to her.

What about Metacam and Baytril?
What's another med that is safe for gliders with similar functions as Metacam? So that I may ask the vet about maybe switching to that.

I"m not sure what med is similar to metacam that is used on gliders. Metacam's main benefit is the anti inflamitory properties.

Torb is a pain reliever that is used on gliders but it works differently than the metacam. Torb does not help with inflamation.

Metacam and Baytril are safe to give together too.

thank you! =)

now I heard that we should not give Metacam over 3 days, some say 5 days....but how long should one wait to try offering it after the 1st period of medication? also, what if the inflammation (or whatever its supposed to be treating) has not gone down or worse?

I'm not really sure what you mean about waiting to try offering it after the 1st period of medication? If the inflammation gets worse or doesn't go down, that's normally a sign of worsening infection and the antibiotic isn't working. After reading this thread earlier, I actually emailed my vet about the Metacam since they've prescribed it for us before. Am I allowed to post her response here?

I believe metacam is given once per 24 hours. What did your vet instruct?

I am not sure if you have measurements or dosages in your vet's reply. A moderator will be able to tell you if you can post this if this is the case. But in the mean time, please PM me the vet's reply.

Yes, there are some dosages listed. That's why I thought I'd better ask... PM sent!

My vet told me to give my lil girl metacam for 7 days? Do I dare do it? I dont want her suffering anymore or getting sicker.

I would do as your vet indicates. What my vet stated in a nutshell is that they have prescribed Metacam for longer periods for healthy gliders. If liver or kidney issues were suspect, they prescribe something else.

If you have your vet's permission to post her response here, you may do so. You must remove any dosages/dilution rates before posting.

I would like to remind everyone that we ARE NOT vets. If you have a question/concern regarding dosages/strengths prescribed please discuss them with you vet. Veterinarians have access to the VIN (Veterinary Information Network) where they can double check these kinds of things if they have questions. You can also give them consultation #'s for glider knowledgeable vets, if you are concerned.

[color:#6600CC]Here is a link to where you will find a list of vets who are willing to do Phone Consultations.
Vet Consult #s

Here is her response. I've emailed her and talked to her about other things before too. I told her the reason I was asking was to relay information but that I will absolutely stress that people need to follow their own vet's orders. I'm removing the dosage info.

What i meant was...many ppl say that Metacam should not be taken longer than 3 days (the most 5 days, as some mentioned) what is the time frame one should wait to offer metacam after the 3 or 5 days are up?

b/c, like humans, gliders may be different and may respond to the medication quicker or slower...that being said, they may have to contniue taking the medication a bit longer until it has taken effect. now i know a glider shoudl not be on medication too long, but what if the problem continues? what is the altimatum if the meds don't work?

bump

I honestly don't know Have you asked your vet about it?

I agree, I would ask your vet, they have a wider knowledge base regarding these medications.