Last night when I went to feed my colony, Stewie didn't come out to greet me. I found him in his pouch, he had passed sometime yesterday. I don't know what happened, he was perfectly fine on Thursday, and I had no indication that anything was wrong. I took the rest of the colony to the vet this morning, they all checked out ok, but that may not mean anything.

I had them pack Stewie to send his whole body FedEx to Amtech for necropsy & lab work so maybe we can find out why he died, or at least find out if he had something that I need to treat everybody for. Here's where I need help - Amtech is going to charge me over $300 (and I just got laid off) - I know Peggy posted somewhere about how Tristan is willing to do reduced/low cost necropsies along with all the info on where to send the body & who to contact when you ship it, but I can't find that info & if I am going to send Stewie to Dr. Tristan instead of Amtech, I need the info before Amtech picks him up between 11-12 today (EST).

If you have this info, please contact me ASAP: 423-213-2529 or 423-474-3433 Thank you...

OH NO! Gina, I am so sorry to hear this about Stewie! I'm sorry that I can't be of much help with the information your looking for other than suggesting that you try and give Peggy or Dr. Tristan a call to see what they suggest.
Sending you many many hugs and prayers.

I got a hold of Dr. Tristan - we may have to send tissue samples out instead of his whole body in order to make sure they are still able to get the info they need. I am supposed to have Dr. Kate call him this morning for instructions.

I'm so sorry for your loss of Stewie Gina

Pat

OMG Gina I am so sorry for your loss!

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Ok, spoke to Kate - she managed to get through to Tim - samples have been collected & will go out Monday. She said that time is not an issue anymore because of how they handle the samples, I did not get too in depth on that topic, but it is taken care of for now. She said she didn't see anything obvious, but she's primarily a dog/cat vet, so we will see.

I also had her send Amtech poop from those who willingly went while we were there (Isis & Panda), she said the fecal results should be back Monday.

So now I guess I just sit and wait & hope no one else gets sick or worse.

I am very sorry for your loss of Stewie.

I am glad Dr. T can help maybe shed some light on what happened. I will keep the others in my thoughts that it is not contagious and they are fine.
If you ever need to talk call me I am here.

Oh Gina, I am so very very sorry.

RIP little

Gina, I'm so sorry to hear about Stewie.

I am so sorry Gina. You really have been hit hard lately. Peace be with your little one...

Gina I am so sorry to read about Stewie. Sending you hugs and love.

Gina,
So sorry to hear about Stewie.

Sending good vibes your way, and praying that no one else is sick!

I'm so sorry for your loss.
I hope no one else is sick!

I'm so sorry Gina

Gina, I'm so very sorry to hear about Stewie. ((((((HUGS)))))))

and prayers coming your way, I'm so sorry for your loss.

I am so sorry G.....big big HUGS!!!!

Karin

Gina,

I am so sorry to read that you lost Stewie, I hope you get the answers you need from the necropsy.

May your memories of Stewie comfort you in the days to come.

Gina, I'm so sorry for your loss of little Stewie. I pray you find peace with any answers that come your way.

Gina, I am so sorry. I know how much your babies mean to you.

Gina, Im so very sorry for your loss! Godspeed little Stewie. (((hugs)))

He actually is having my vet send them to a pathologist that he uses, so he won't actually see anything, but I will make sure to post the report.

I sincerly pray for comfort for you. I hope you find the rest are just fine. God Bless sending lots of hugs. Him and Petey can play together.

Oh Gina! What a sad year for you! I am so sorry to hear of Stewie's passing. I hope your other babies are ok. You are such a good suggie mom and gave Stewie so much love, he had no doubts of how much you love him!

Ok, Stewie's samples have been sent to the lab - at $290, I only saved $10 from Amtech's price plus the $100 for the cremation = $390 total!

The fecals on Panda & Isis came back negative, so we are relying totally on the tissue samples now. I got to talk to Dr. Kate a bit more in depth about the post & she said that his liver was enlarged, it weighed 35g - she also said that he had very thick layers of fat & that the fat layers were also present in his patagium. She said all the fat combined was about 17g. She is wondering if he had a heart attack. Fawkes had the enlarged liver as well as the cardiomyopathy, so it could be something hereditary depending on what the lab says about Stewie's heart. She said that based on the amount of fat, she would have classified Stewie as morbidly obese even though he was only 157g - I realize that 157g is considered overweight, but I was suprised to hear that he was "morbidly obese".

Given that I have 3 other overweight (ranging aroud 160g) sons of Fawkes and Stewie, Kate recommended that I cut the oatmeal in the Priscilla's mix down by half & think about thyroid testing on all 3 boys - again, dependant upon what is found with Stewie's labs.

I got the necropy results for Stewie today, though I can't say it helped me any - Dr. Kate couldn't really explain the results except to tell me that Stewie was fat. I have faxed the report to Peggy in the hopes that Dr. Tristan can find something meaningful in it. I don't know how to use my scanner, so here is what the report says (maybe Peggy know how to attach the actual report):

Clinical Information: There was an unexpected death. This sugar glider is over-conditioned.

Microscopic: Submitted were seven tissue sections.

Kidney: Examined were sections through the cortex and medulla of the kidney. These sections are moderately autolyzed.
Lung: The lung is severly congested.
Liver: The liver is severely congested. There are multifocal areas of lymphoplasmacytic and rare neutrophilic infiltrates randomly throughout the hepatic parenchyma. These are also present within the portal triads.
Spleen: No lesion recognized
Pancreas: There is extensive fat infiltration into the lobules of the pancreas.
Intestine: The intestinal sections are moderately autolyzed.
Heart: Examined is a longitudinal section through the ventricle, atria, and great vessels of the heart. No lesion is recognized.

Diagnosis:
Liver: Moderate multifocal subacute cholangiohepatitis

Comment: The primary lesion identified is of a cholangiohepatitis. The cause of this is not determined and no specific microorganisms are identified. The intestinal sections, which I suspect would be the point of origin for an infection, are significantly autolyzed.

I'm so sorry Gina that the results did not help you any. I hope Dr. Tristan will be able to help you better understand what happened.

Click on it to see the larger image of it....

Thanks Peggy!

Gina, basically...his liver was bad and he contracted pneumonia. Not sure about the rest.

He had a fatty liver, infections. etc.,

This was NOT caused from his weight. Many gliders have passed from liver disease in the wild.

Also, his kidneys and intestines were being broken down by his own body... Perhaps an autoimmune disorder as well?

Sorry about your loss. It is good to see that people want to know what happened so that it may be avoided in the future.

A little help from my wife:

Primary cause of death is unkown but....A fatty diet could lead to pancreatitis which causes hepatic lipidosis leeding to the chlangiohepatitis. The mention of fatty infiltrates in the pancreas leads one to have that conculsion. Autolyzed means decomposistion has set in. But without performing the necropsy herself it is hard to say.

Not sure if I typed it right or translated it properly. She was telling me this while traveling to one of her clinics.

A fatty liver is seen often with diabetes also.

It can be caused by preservatives in foods mostly, not by eating "fatty" foods.

It can also be a hereditary factor.

Here ya go Gina....tried to call you but got your voice mail...

Hmmmmmmmm, we see that word hepatitis again.

Karin

Peanut had hepatitis also. Jaundice showed up a couple of times before though and she was almost neon yellow by the time she passed

Inflammation of the liver is all that means...then, we must find out WHY the liver inflammed...that seems to be the hard part.

Well, the cholangio part is referring to the gall bladder. I was actually starting a form of hepatitis due to a gall stone and gall bladder infection. Anything could have caused it, and then again it didn't really NEED a cause to happen.

I am till sad about your Stewie. Thank you so much for sharing this information so that others might learn from your loss.

A glider that stops eating for a period of time can also develop fatty liver-it happens to cats a lot. It can also happen quickly. That was suspected in Chronos because it was thought he may have stopped eating for a bit...48 hours without food is all it takes. Turns out his was cirrhotic (scarred) but wasn't fatty at all, plus the blocked gall bladder in his case.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of hepatitis is being discussed? Hephatic isn't related, other than to indicate the liver itself was what was having an issue, lipidosis meaning 'fatty' but the cause is not known. Hephatic=of the liver. I'm thinking this isn't what people get, which is usually viral caused?

Gina, you had to go so I didn't get a chance to say on the phone, and haven't been able to get online in over a week-but I'm so sorry about Stewie.

I am also concerned for Clotho, as she is Stewie's daughter-and 190 grams. There aren't any fatty foods in her diet though, no oatmel, etc. Main issue with her is getting her out of her pouch to DO anything. I'd say a genetic component isn't unlikely. Keep me updated.

Gina - I am so sorry to hear about Stewie - hopefully the lab results will show you what happened -

From reading your posts - my Junior is FAT and now I'm definately going to cut down on his feeding habits (sp)

God speed little Stewie and RIP

Sue
Owned By &
Mom To

Thank you guys for trying to help me understand this, it means a lot to me. Stewie was on Priscilla's for the last 2+ years (PML, BML, and Darcy's were all tried prior to that), so I don't think fat in the diet was an issue, otherwise, you would think PP would have had hundreds of cases like this.

I do have a few questions though:

1. How would a glider get this type of infection? What would be the possible causes? Could it have been something I fed him, something I gave him to play with, etc? I want to make sure this wasn't my fault, and if it was, I need to fix it for my other babies.

2. This sort of goes hand in hand with #1, but what are possible preventions to this type of infection?

I guess I just don't understand how an infection starts in the intestines. I want to make sure this is the only death of this nature I will ever have - it still really worries me that the twins died so young & they have babies out there that may or may not have a genetic predisposition to something.

Did Tim know that this was Fawkes' twin brother? I'd like to know his thoughts on that. I realize that it could just be a coincidence, but man... Could the "disease in the intestines, pancreas, gall bladder, etc" have been cancer? Does cancer always difinitively show up on pathology reports? Would this type of infection be something you could expect to see secondary to cancer?

What about the "fat" issue? I realize that 157g IS overweight for a glider, but I would never have classified it as "morbidly obese". Is there a reason that his obesity would affect his liver differently than it would one of the many gliders that is up over 200g? I guess I'm wondering why HE died specifically when there are SO many gliders that weigh WAY more than him.

Forgive me if these are stupid questions, but I really want to understand what happened to my boy.

This is what I'm worried about - Stewie has 4 children, one is still with me and the other 3 are with good friends. Stewie also has 5 nieces and nephews, 2 still with me. ALL 3 of the relatives I still have are overweight (NONE of my other gliders are overweight). Fawkes (Stewie's twin) was 186g before he was diagnosed with lymphoma. My other boys are between 165-170g.

Ok Gina:

Here are Tims answers in with your questions...I will change their color so they will stand out more.

1. How would a glider get this type of infection? (We don't know what it is so its hard to say). What would be the possible causes? (bacterial overgrowth in the intestines) Could it have been something I fed him, something I gave him to play with, etc? (Could be something new in his diet that upset his normal GI bacteria). I want to make sure this wasn't my fault, and if it was, I need to fix it for my other babies. (Don;t think it is your fault, especially since we are all still learning.)
2. This sort of goes hand in hand with #1, but what are possible preventions to this type of infection? (Don;t know until we are able to identify the cause and influencing factors)
I guess I just don't understand how an infection starts in the intestines.(bacteria normally lives in the intestines...in a normal balance, when that balance is upset, one of those out grows the other. If there is inflammation in the other areas, it might dilate the ducts and allow bacteria to go where it normally would not. Its like the short urethra in human females predisposing them to UTI's) I want to make sure this is the only death of this nature I will ever have - it still really worries me that the twins died so young & they have babies out there that may or may not have a genetic predisposition to something.

Did Tim know that this was Fawkes' twin brother? I'd like to know his thoughts on that. (Not sure I could comment) I realize that it could just be a coincidence, but man... Could the "disease in the intestines, pancreas, gall bladder, etc" have been cancer? (no, it would have said that on the report )Does cancer always difinitively show up on pathology reports? (Almost always) Would this type of infection be something you could expect to see secondary to cancer? You can always build a case for anything, but not in this case
(Tim: Fawkes was the glider with Lymphoma. )

What about the "fat" issue? I realize that 157g IS overweight for a glider, but I would never have classified it as "morbidly obese". Is there a reason that his obesity would affect his liver differently than it would one of the many gliders that is up over 200g? (The liver is the primary organ for utilizing and maintaining fat stores, so it depends on all the factors involved) I guess I'm wondering why HE died specifically when there are SO many gliders that weigh WAY more than him---Good question.