They talk about this type of neuter on the ISGA website

http://www.isga.org/informationcenter/HealthIssues/neutering.htm

They may talk about it, and keep in mind a glider's tendency to SM when in pain, but I challenge a male HUMAN to try it. Because they hide pain until they can't, doesn't mean the glider doesn't hurt. Just because one site talks about it, doesn't mean it's humane, or right.

Oh, I was never saying it was right. that is for sure! Refer to my previous post I just was just kind of aghast a page on the ISGA site actually suggests that this is a good neutering practice. Of course that page does have a 2003 date.

Unfortunately, some people, and even some vets, think animals "don't feel things like we do". If that were the case, no SM would ever happen. There is definitely something gone wrong with the glider in the pic. Hopefully, he's got a high enough pain tolerance NOT to SM, but that can lead also to systemic infection before you know there's something really wrong...they hide it TOO well.

If this is the type of neuter they performed than it's possible that it didn't so much go wrong as it may have gone "as planned". However, if he were my glider I'd definatly find another vet for a second opinion on whether this needs to be treated with antibiotics, pains meds, and/or surgery. Good luck with this little guy! I hope it all turns out alright!

Ewwwww. Why'd I have to read that?! >.< Oh man...can you imagine how much that would hurt? Actually, the circulation is being cut off so it would eventually go numb then fall off...but still! That's so gross. But, it does sound like that's what they did to the little man. Poor guy!

Even with this type neuter it should NEVER be bright red. That says it's (the blood flow) not completely cut off and there's still circulation-there shouldn't be. Necrotic, or dead, tissue is black (and risking systemic infection) not red.

Good point!!

Should information about this type of neuter (and the associated risks!) be added to the Neutering FAQ sticky? Some people may not even know this practice exists and may not even think to ask their vets if this how they perform a neuter. Sorry if I'm getting OT here...

I finished up his fleece cage cover today, i will make a hole in the side and let the heater aim in that way, thanks for the idea I think mine is also the 100 watt. Im redoing the inside of his cage this week, changing shelves and whatnot, i have about 2 yards of extra fleece, im going to line the back of the cage with it, and maybe one side, and then line the 3rd side with leaves/vines etc.. get some new shelves and new toys for him. He doesnt seem to be in much pain at all, he runs around does his wheel, and grooms normally. so im not to worried, but i do watch him.

Ask how many glider owners, with a dead or dying glider, said "but they were just fine yesterday...or a few hours ago". That is NOT an indication of health. They will show it when they are dying, and not before. Gliders are not like the domesticated animals we are used to. Because ALL of their wild instincts are intact, and in the wild a sick glider is a dead glider, they are the absolute best at hiding what's wrong until it's too late. They don't go dragging around for days before they die-hours if you're lucky, sometimes not even that. Discoloration is likely all the warning you will get until he's dying or you find him dead on the bottom of the cage or in his pouch. I've been there 9 times personally, more if you count other gliders I've helped with. When you have a symptom, ANY symptom, it is not to be taken lightly, and 'wait and see' is most often fatal, and I don't know how to stress that any more strongly. Some gliders will eat and play until they simply drop dead-they are THAT good at acting.

Here's a thread, with pictures of my own Gimli, you might want to read. My own Chronos amazed the vets-no usable liver left and a blocked gall bladder about to burst, and other than the jaundice (yellow color on feet/hands/nose/ears) and a bit of weight loss-he didn't act like there was anything wrong at all. There's another I'll see if I can find. But I can't stress enough that your little guy needs medical attention NOW.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/77384#Post77384

And I can't remember the name-can anyone find LSardou's (I think) post on why NOT to ignore symptoms in a glider? Gone thru 18 pages of threads and I'm just not seeing it.

Here are pictures of my Chronos THE DAY he died.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/495199/fpart/1

Found it:

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/421377/fpart/1

PereGrinus, Any news? Were you able to get your little one in to see a vet today?
Please let us know how he is.....we are concerned.

I'm praying your little one will be fine. I've been following your thread but haven't posted because I didn't want to say the wrong thing about the vet.

However, please find another vet. What this vet did to your glider is beyond inhumane and I seriously have to wonder about his "credentials" as a veterinarian. That was cruel to say the least what he did to your baby.

Please keep us posted as to how your glider is doing.

The vet nearby in Appelton deals with sugar gliders, and i made an appointment for monday, it was the earliest time available, I will update everything then. Thanks for all the kind words, and support.

I named him Sebastian by the way,

Give Sebastion a rub behind his ears from all of us here, and tell him we're all pulling for him to get better.

If this gets ANY worse, or ANY other symptoms show up, DO NOT HESITATE to just walk in with him and insist they see him on the spot. Gliders go downhill SO fast, once they begin to present as sick the word 'wait' is frequently a death sentence for these animals.

Wating for an update on 'Bastion's vist. (Couldn't resist-reminds me of the Neverending Story )

yeah ^^ i actually was always rather fond of the name from it being used in the movie " Cruel intentions "

heres a picture i took just now, its LARGE, so, 56k beware. lol

click it for full size

Click for full size.

I checked His pom, and got good pictures of it, it has gone down in size, more then half of how it was when i first brought him home. Which is what the vet who called said would happen, he said, it would shrink back down, shrivel up and fall off, which is not only gross but just... evil. But so far, what the vet has told me, has been true.. so we will see, and im taking him in on monday reguardless... so yeah! changed his cage around big time today, and he seems to love it way more then the old setup lol

how much is normal for grooming? I was in a tent with him for 3 hours tonight, He finally trusts me enough to hold him and i got 3 or 4 " face hugs " lol but i noticed out of the 3 hours we were in there, when he was running around on the top of the tent, he stopped maybe 5 times to lick himself, it wasn't extensive, just maybe 5-10 seconds each time, i watched closely, is that normal? or should I be a bit more worried? I'm glad I made an appointment for monday now. If things dont change by then, i'm going to see if they can just do it correctly... if they can even fix it now, who knows.

http://www.isga.org/informationcenter/HealthIssues/neutering.htm

it says here, the method they used on my glider, after 7-10 days it should shivel and fall off, its day 10, and it looks like it does in the picture still. Im starting to wonder if they did it incorrectly afterall.

the swelling did go down slightly, and it might still happen before monday, but its not looking to promising...

It seems to me, as Xfilefan said before, that if they fully cut off the blood supply you'd expect it to lose the red color quickly, becoming pale then black, and not swell. Perhaps it's difficult to cut off the blood supply entirely using this method and thus maybe it's "normal" to see swelling and redness at first. It's pretty sad, though, because the swelling and redness looks painful!

Hope your little guy heals from this with no incidence!

As far as getting charged $75 to do this type of neuter, that, to me, seems outrageous, unless it included pains meds and antibiotics. My vet charges $85 for a "poms-on" incision neuter under anestesia.

i agree, and if it ends up not being properly done, i really hope the breeder will at least refund me the neutering money so that i may have it done correctly, but for some reason that seems like a far stretch from reality to me. I dont think it would be to much to ask though? would it?

well after talking to the owner, i guess he was actually neutered on friday. so today is only day 7ish, so theres still time for it to work out properly, thank god. but even still,

and agree on the pricing. There was NO antibiotics or pain meds given, he was taken in, tied up and released as far as i know. BUT, just basic take in and check up is $47, so i guess its basically 30 for the neutering if you go off that? which is more realistic

Quote: it says here, the method they used on my glider, after 7-10 days it should shivel and fall off, its day 10, and it looks like it does in the picture still. Im starting to wonder if they did it incorrectly afterall[/

I have medical experience and from the pictures that I'm looking at that the pom still has a blood supply and this "neutering" (if you want to call it that) is not working. Since it still has a blood supply then it still has nerves and feeling. Therefore he is probably in pain and hiding it.

The reason that I can say that it still has a blood supply is because it is still pink. Dying flesh would be white to blue and would be turning black over a period of time.

This method of neutering is inhumane to say the least and I would have definitely gotten him into the vets office immediately.

Sepsis (Blood Poisoning) may have already set in to his system. He needs to be on an antibiotic and he needs a qualified vet to attempt to finish this if it's possible at this point. Depending on how much circulation was actually cut off will determine the amount of toxins in his pom.

Please if there is any way possible - please try to take him into the vet sooner. He needs to be seen.

You must have failed to read my edit. Its only day 7 right now, she failed to tell me he was only neuterd the day right before i picked him up.

OK posted on the other thread. I would be calling and demanding the neuter money back. That was not a proper neuter and has done nothing but cause you heart ache and worry. Not to mention that glider is hurting if you see it or not. Tie a string around your pinky finger tip. When it gets to the point it hurts most it looks like his pom. (Yes I was a dumb kid and tried it once *ok twice or more* too)

The breeder should have KNOWN what the vet was doing before entrusting your baby with them. I feel you and your little man were failed by your breeder. I pray the new vet will be able to make him all better, I worry this procedure was done wrong and the bad blood circulating back into the body is causing him issues. I will go cry now then I will be post a warning on AC in breeder ref!

thanks for the kind words, and i did email her and ask for money back, but i highly doubt i will get a reply back about it, from what i hear, she was kind of shady in the first place... If i dont get a reply i will visit her again, since she lives only 10 minutes from where i was SUPPOSE to be moving in a month

anyway! heres the updated post from the other thread! i will def keep everyone up to date!

Sorry - I didn't see the timing of the posts ... you are taking him to a new vet to be reneutered? That would be so good. I am horrified this was done to your poor boy! No wonder he didn't seem to want to play much.

Has his behavior changed? Is he more playful?

I'm so sorry for the unexpected expenses you encountered, but I'm so glad that this little guy has you!

yeah, i took him to as nearby vet, the vet AND the nurse were BOTh sugar glider owners actually, i was very releived to find that out.. Tomarrow they are going to fix, and finish the job correctly, so he will finally be a happy fixed little boy! yay