What I've read online is that they treat people with lead poisoning with a form of calcium (calcium disodium edetate (EDTA)) and a form of penicillin (D-Penicillamine). I thought that was interesting since calcium issues are common to gliders.

I'll ask tonite when I see our regular vet.

Lynn

Just got back from our local vet -- I feel better... at least we have a plan of action.

First -- no surgery. The risks are too big... the potential good is too small... and realistically, the money is too much... and the risk of a negative impact on Ozzy's quality of life is too great.

Second -- for the moment we will work under the assumption that he has a bacterial infection that may have caused complications with the liver/kidneys (time will tell on that one). We will keep him on antibiotics for three weeks, wait a week and run a urinalysis/culture & sensitivity -- and go from there.

Third -- she recommended that we start researching and as much as possible start supplementing his diet with foods that are indigenous to his native environment. In her opinion, one possibility with all the liver issues gliders have is that an enzyme that is available in the wild -- is missing in a captive diet. She also gave me the number of a zoo in the region to call to talk with the dietician.

That's a brief synopsis of our conversation. We talked for 45 minutes and she charged us $10.00!

Lynn

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]oh, that is so wonderful! you have such a great vet. i am also relieved that you decided not to do the surgery. please keep us updated on ozzy's progress. hope he is up and about in no time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />[/]

i would go to a top notch exotic vet and get another opinion but no surgery. u can call my vet at 919 644 9166 dr dan johnson he saved my glider over a year ago from pnumonia and bacterial infection. maybe u need an antibiotic in shot form it goes right into the bloodstream

[:"blue"]Lynn,
Thanks so much for updating us and that sounds like a great plan .... all for $10 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> How great is that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

I hope that Little Ozzy continues to do well and hopefully at the end of his three weeks of medication the vet will be able to find/not find results in the tests. [/]

I am so happy to hear about your vet. They sound wonderful. I pray that Ozzy continues to get betterand that the meds help. If you find out something that is needed in our babies diets, please let us know.
Megi

So glad to hear that Ozzy is doing well. I sure hope these antibiotics take care of the problem. I will kee him in my thoughts and prayers. Keep us updated on how he is doing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ozzy is in his third week of antibiotics. His skin has pinked up -- he's his normal perky self. Someone at work ran a urinalysis for me. He has no blood in his urine, no white blood cells, still has a small amount of bilirubin. So far, things are going well. He'll be off antibiotics on Friday then we'll have an anxious three to four weeks while we wait to see if the blood in his urine and jaundice return.

Lynn

SO glad to hear that the antibiotics are doing their job. I will keep him in my thoughts and prayers in hopes that once the antibiotics are done everything goes fine. Thanks so much for keeping us updated on him.

I thought about the antibiotic treatment...what my thoughts on this iare is this:
antibiotics kill certain bacteria in the stomach/intestines, so whatever causes the toxicity that causes the other symptoms of blood in urine, enlarged liver, etc, could be slowedto almost a halt, cause certain bacteria are no longe rpresent to help with digestion issues. That's why they recomend freindly bacteri to be reintroduedto our system to help bring our digestion back on track.
So my guess would be that something you are feeding or something the glider comes in touch with that is ingested, could be toxic ? That would then mean that the glider would sooner or later possibly be deprived of other nutritional components, as the antibiotics are slowing down whatever is entering the body...
I don't think it has that much to do with the diet we give, or esle we'd see this sort of problem a lot more often maybe? I don't disagree with a more native diet, but that's going to be very hard to accomplish.

I'd like to ask your vet that question, maybe you can.

Tanja

I've gone over the cage, etc. Nothing obvious. Also, his brother is totally healthy -- and they're together always. So not sure what it is. We are supplementing him with acidophilus so hopefully have kept his intestinal flora up. So... if it is a toxin, its a subtle one... or something that he's suseptible to, but his brother isn't. Any ideas?

Lynn

Hmm the only thing i can think of is that he's possibly more susceptible, or that he has some sort of virus or bacteria, that creates atoxin in his system, but doesn't get eradicated by the antibiotics used, or somehow comes back ?
I readsomething on that a while back, but i can;t for the life of me remember right now if it was a virus or a bacteria, and what sort of toxin it released... if i remember i'll let you know.

Tanja

Your vet sounds wonderful -- thoughtful and knowledgeable! I like the observations about diet -- there are a number of people these days who theorize that liver problems in gliders may in part be related by something they're not getting here that they get in their natural environment.

And it sounds like the fact the fact that the antibiotics are working may mean that you've found the source of the problem. I'll keep my fingers crossed that this is the case!

I was so optimistic three days ago... pink nose and everything seemed fine. Yesterday was Ozzy's last day of antibiotics. When we took his and Chips dinner in, I looked at him and he'd turned jaundiced again. Very yellow. I don't want to admit it. But it looks like we have along-term problem that antibiotics won't fix. I'm so sad. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />

I'm sorry! I know you'll be worried about him, but the best thing you can do is watch him for other signs of health and illness, and watch his diet (limit protein, etc). I would definitely ask your vet about milk thistle, too. Ozzy (and you) will be in my prayers!

I'm sorry you two are having to go thru this. Keeping you both in my thoughts and prayers.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> to each of you! Hopefully something will turn up. With the jaundice, I wonder about liver problems. I'll be keeping you all in my prayers, please give Ozzy a hug from me!
Chey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

I will definately hold him in my thoughts and prayers in hopes that things get better.

We did a urinalysis today -- six days off the antibiotics. Blood is back in his urine... bilirubin still there too. No white blood cells, so can't do a culture and sensitivity. The vet decided it was too risky to wait for white blood cells to appear and has put him back on antibiotics. Ozzy is acting fine, still jaundiced, no visible blood.

Lynn

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> [:"magenta"]aw, poor ozzy. i wish he was doing better. but it could be worse. at least the antibiotix seem to help. [/]

be very careful with the anti-biotics, the over use/overdose of some meds will also cause the jaundice with blood in the urine,

I too am worried about antibiotics. However I'm not sure what other options we have right now short of cutting him open to try to figure out what's wrong. Ozzy is bright yellow this evening -- in the creases of his ears and nose... and of course his paws and nails also. Loose stools from the antibiotics, so will be pushing yogurt and gliderade tonite... looks to be a long weekend. I'll see if I can find someone with a digital camera to post a picture.

Lynn <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

Here are the pictures of Ozzy...

Lynn

Second picture

Lynn

Third

Last one

Lynn

awwww that poor baby!! He is so cute but he is so jaundice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Have they said anything about increasing the vitd for him. I would automatically think of having some kind of time in bright room!! small amounts of time of course but some kind of uv. something...poor little guy.

The poor little guy. He is so adorable though even with his yellow little hands, nose, and ears. I really hope something can be figured out. I feel so bad for him. I will continue to keep him in my thoughts and prayers.

surgery isnt the answer in my opinion. u can call my vet in the morn. at 919 844 9166 and ask for dr. dan. he saved my glider over a yr ago. he used a shot antibiotic that kills any type of bacteria or infecton as mine had pnumonia and bacterial infection. it was amakacin penicillin and sterile saline all combined in one shot given twice daily the amount was 1 1/2cc sterile saline amakacin 4mg/kg and reg. penicillin 30 000 iu/kg devided in to body weight of glider. and i gave it 3 wks. but my ruby was almost gone. she was gasping for air breathing with her mouth open. and in oxygen. this was pure experimental since dr dan used it in rabbits and that was our only hope. it might just do the trick for u.

You know, Lynne, that it's hard for me to look at Ozzy and not think about Gladys. What strikes me about these pictures, though, is that he looks alert and healthy, apart from the jaundice. I hope that is an encouragement to you -- Gladys really didn't look well from the time she developed the problem.

I so hope it's a matter of something that can be cleared up with antibiotics. Not all liver problems are equal, and I'm sure keeping my fingers crossed. Thanks for forwarding the labs. You're doing a valuable service by letting us learn from Ozzy along with you. Thank you --