I've had Smith and Wesson since about the end of October. I got them as joeys. Around Christmas I successfully introduced them to Chloe and Jasmine and now I have a happy little quad. They have access to their own glider-proofed room that has toys and fleece all around it to play on. I go down there and feed them and play with them every night. Well Smith and Wesson have been biting a lot. I do not chase them or do anything threatening. When I walk into the room, they stop whatever they're doing and run over to me and jump on me and crawl all over me. But they won't stop biting. Wesson bites more than Smith. He bit my ear twice tonight and I was bleeding all over the place. I don't know if they like the taste of blood or what, but I'm to the point where I can't take it anymore. I thought they'd grow out of it, but they haven't. No amount of hissing at them, pushing them away, yelling, telling them "no", blowing in their faces, etc will get them to stop. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my temper and really hurt them. How do I get them to stop biting me? It's not a fearful thing because I'm not chasing them... it's completely their choice whether they want to come over to me or not. And they don't bite when they're sleeping in my shirt, it's only when they're awake for the night. What do I do? I'm running out of patience (and blood)... I'm not using any different lotion, shampoo, laundry soap, I don't think I smell any different than I usually do... I've gone down there after I've showered, when I haven't showered, with clean clothes, with clothes they've scented thoroughly, the result is always the same and it's *very* painful!

I am so sorry to hear that they have not grown out of the biting. I am sorry I can't help with any suggestions but I am sure someone with more knowledge about biting will be here soon to help you. I am also sorry to hear you are getting bit all the time, I know that can't be fun.

How long have they been biting?
Is this a newish thing, or has it been since they first came?
Are their times that they do it more or less?
Have you spoken to Bourbon about them?
Are they neutered?
Is it worse at different times of the month/week that they do it more/worse?
Does it seem totally random or do they have specific areas that they bite regularly?
Do they seem upset when they bite, or does it seem to come out of the blue?
Do they lick at all when they are biting, could it be grooming?
Do the bites start with nibbles, or just firm bites?
Do you know the girls' heat cyles? Do they bite more when the girls are in heat?

Answering these questions will help me (and others who can help) determine what is going on and how to fix the situation.

Lonea,

I am sorry those little stinkers haven't quit biting. I think it might be best if you try taking them off of you and not letting them even get to the point of starting the behavior that leads to the biting.

I think that when they are playing in the room and are all wound up is when you are having the biting issues.

They are still sweet bra babies aren't they?

If you put them off of you (use a piece of fleece so they can't bite your hand) and not let them on you to start the biting behavior it may make them think that if they bite they do not get to play on you.

Just curious where are the girls when the little scamps are on you?

I agree with Kimberley on this one...I think you are going to have to be consistent and take them off you at this point, so that they learn they can't be on you and bite. If they're good in your shirt or bra, it's not a "you" thing. If this was the case, they would be biting no matter WHERE they were. Again, I agree that it's something that's happening when they get wound up and they haven't learned to come down from that high and don't know how to behave. I know it's difficult to have biters...but please, don't raise your voice at them. And honestly, since they're still young, it's very possible that right now, when they do this, they're looking for attention (just like little kids) and hey, even negative attention will work. Do you get what I'm saying? They bite, you holler. Huh...if I bite, she'll pay attention to me! Children, as I'm sure you know, will look for attention, even if it's negative, just to get you to know they're there. So, my advice - if they bite. Gently pick them up with a piece of fleece and set them elsewhere. Don't say a word. Don't make an issue of it. Just move them - each and every time!

Nadine, thank you for your response. Here are the answers to your questions:

1) They've been biting since December or January

2) They've been doing it since about the time I put them all together, but before that, I didn't spend a whole lot of time with the boys in the tent because they were still pretty fearful and I had a hard time catching them to put them back in their cage.

3)No, they bite all the time, not just certain times of the month, but only when they're awake

4)No, I have not spoken to Bourbon about them. I've been talking to Feather about them because I got them from her and she has their older brother. She says their older brother also bites.

5)Yes they were neutered as soon as I got them (at about 9 weeks oop--was a pom-on neuter with no complications)

6)I have not noticed any change in frequency corresponding to the days of the month or week.

7) Wesson mostly bites my ears, wrists, hands, fingers, nose, chin. Both he and Smith bite at my clothes too but when I have 4 critters crawling all over me, I don't always notice them biting my clothes.

8) No, they don't seem upset when they bite. It's completely out of the blue. When they jump on me, I pet them and talk to them and try to keep them away from any exposed skin. It's interesting because sometimes they'll crawl up the sleeves of my sweatshirt and they don't bite my arm or skin when they're under my sweatshirt. I thought maybe it was a light thing, but I keep the lights in their room quite dim when I'm in there.

9)Wesson does not lick when he bites. He just comes up to me and chomps down. Smith crawled onto my hand once and started licking. I praised him and told him what a good boy he was and he reached over to another finger and bit it. Then he started licking again and I told him what a good boy he was and then he reached over and chomped my little finger again. He bit the same finger both times and it was not a finger he had been licking.

10) Nope, they do not start with nibbles, it's just an all-out bite. And I can feel the effort they put into biting down so hard. It's like they're putting all of their strength into their bite.

11) No, it's strange... they don't bite at all when the girls are in heat.

The girls don't bite at all... they're sweet girls that love to lick and lick. Chloe likes to lick my ears and hands while Jasmine likes to lick my face. Jasmine gets a bit rough sometimes when she grooms, she doesn't draw blood and stops nibbling when I hiss.

Aimee, I *do* pay attention to them when they're not biting. It's interesting because they'll jump on me and crawl around and sniff my hair and jump off of me and jump back and then all of a sudden, they'll run up and bite my ear. When I came into the room last night, I walked up to Wesson and was talking to him and telling him how handsome he is and asking him very nicely to not bite me. I didn't touch him or go after him. He was on a piece of fleece on the wall and I just stood there and talked to him. Then he came over to me and I pet him and rubbed his back. After he jumped off of me, I went out of the room, got their food together and got some mealies and came back in. I gave them their mealies and after the mealies were gone was when he started biting my ears. He had jumped off of me and was running around the room and then he came back, jumped on me and bit my ear immediately. It all happened so quickly, I didn't have time to react. Sometimes I yell out in pain but I don't make it a habit to actually yell at them. I push them away and they come right back. And keeping them off of me is difficult. I was pulling them off of me last night, and the funny thing was, they didn't bite my hands when I did that....

Sometimes when the girls are grooming me, the boys will come over, smell whatever part the girls are grooming and then bite. And it's never just a little nibble... they almost always break the skin.

I just keep hoping they'll grow out of it. My friend Sarah tells me about her sweet little boy who rubs all over her and never bites. I love Smith and Wesson and wish they would rub on me and snuggle with me instead of biting. I try to keep them away from exposed skin, but it happens so quickly that most of the time, I don't see it coming.

Hold up! I think I see a pattern! You said they were biting AFTER the mealies were gone! Is this the norm, or just a coincidence? When I got my first gliders, they were fingertip biters because their breeder fed them mealies through the bars.

My solution for that was to either use a tweezers to feed their mealies, or usually I leave the mealies in the food dish for them to grab.

This sounds like a food related behavior. It couldn't hurt to stop with the mealies by hand, use yogis or licky treats for bonding and teach them slowly how to be gentle with your fingers (and the other body parts should follow). Licky treats work wonders!

Let me know if you try this, you should see results after a few days IF that is the problem.

out of curiousity do you by chance where your hair in a ponytail or something similar when you play with them? i have 2 males who bite me when i wear a ponytail they attack the back of my neck where the little hairs arent long enough to stay in the ponytail and my ears for the same reason

Nadine,

They bite regardless of whether I'm giving them mealies (I don't give them mealies every day because I'm afraid they'll get overweight so I give them about twice per week). And yes, I knew they were not careful where they were grabbing when I feed them mealies, so I put the worms in a shot glass and let the boys and girls grab them out of the shot glass. I rarely feed the worms by hand because of the accidental bitings by both boys and girls.

I've been using licky treats since day one... and they've never bitten with the licky treats.

Danileigh, sometimes my hair is in a ponytail, sometimes it's down. They bite through my hair into my scalp sometimes regardless of the hairstyle. The last time Wesson drew blood, my hair was down. But yes, they also will bite the back of my neck when my hair is back.

Lonea,

In regards to their brother biting, Tobin only bites when he is marking me, he would bite and then scoot his but and chest all over me.

With the boys biting after they have run around it sounds like they are all wound up and excited.

Are they marking you with urine at all? Tobin would bite, drip then rub always on bare skin. Their sisters don't do it at all. Tobin, Smith and Wesson all have pom on neuters so there is some residual testosterone production.

I feel it is a marking and excitement thing and keeping as much skin as possible covered.

Kimberley,

They bite bare skin, but don't try to rub on it. I usually wear sweat pants and a sweat shirt when I go in to see them. The only thing that's left uncovered is my head, hands and feet. They don't bite my feet but will bite my wrists, hands, ears, head, etc.

They don't mark as much as Chloe and Jasmine do. Chloe and Jasmine leave behind little dots of urine all over my sweatshirt, but the boys don't seem to do that. But with all 4 of them crawling all over me, I might be wrong.

I have Smith and Wesson sleeping in my shirt today. I thought maybe we needed some more bonding time together. They don't bite when they're sleeping.

So if it's an excitement thing, how do I teach them that I don't like being bitten? It's easy to say "keep them off of you" but it's harder to actually *do* when you have all 4 of them jumping to and from you. There's really nowhere in the room I can go where they can't jump on me. I try to keep them from my ears and face, but I love it when Chloe and Jasmine lick my face and ears and I want to encourage them while discouraging Smith and Wesson's biting...

Ok so it's not an excitement thing... Smith and Wesson were sleeping in my shirt all day and I felt them start to wake up so I took them downstairs to put them back with the girls. As I was holding my shirt open for them to climb out, Wesson sleepily poked his head out, climbed up on to my hand, chomped down and then jumped into one of the hammocks in the cage to finish waking up. *sigh* I'm getting so tired of getting bitten. I love them so much and just wish they weren't demon possessed... maybe an exorcism might be in order??

Hmm.. So I just posted something simular to your problem. I didn't read this before I posted it. My male who is nuetered (pom off) does the same thing. Its on bare skin, except for me its mostly my arms and it happens randomly. Tonight in the tent he was having fun jumping around and then he randomly started biting me and drew blood for the first time. I hope we can find whats causing this!

I wonder if they are biting you were they smell the spots where the girls have left their scent?

As far as waking up and biting you like he just did, pick them up and put them down.

I know how everyone else will take it but if it were me I would try gently pushing them down and hissing at them when they bite, like their parents do to them.

sorry hun... I have already given all of the advice that I know to give... I will try to call Bourbon tomorrow and have her look at this thread... maybe she will have some ideas that we haven't come up with yet!

Don't give up on your boys!

Dunno if this is appropriate since I'm a newbie to all of this, but it sounds like this happens when all 4 are playing with you. Have you tried limiting the variables to see how they do if it's just the two of them with you? Also, with just the two of them it might be easier to keep them from biting. I would think 4 at once would be confusing to keep track of who is biting.

I don't think so Kevin. She recently said that she had just the two with her and he started biting. So I don't think your theory is quite right.

I only got halfway down reading the thread, I have to read the rest of it, but if you got them at about 9 weeks, they should be right about now be at that "adolescent" bitey stage. Lots of gliders go through this at about this age, and the way they demonstrate their rebel-ness is to BITE.

Whatever you do, you cannot lose your patience and yell (or God forbid hurt them like you mentioned). If you've read Bourbon's article on bonding, http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/..._wit#Post933759, you'll know that gliders bite in reaction to us. I know I re-read this article every so often to remind myself of THEIR perspective and how THEY must feel.

A thought: you mentioned the phrase "when I walk into the room"....first, are you leaving them alone in a glider-proofed room to run around by themselves? If so, not recommended, no matter how safe that room is, they should NEVER be un-supervised while out of their cage. Second, and this is something to think about, if you are walking into the room they're playing in, think about how you must look. They're in the room, playing happily. Out of the blue, a huge massive giant (you) comes into their territory. My instinct if I were them? Bite the heck out of you. Besides, beyond exercise the whole point of playtime is to be WITH them as a way of further bonding.

Try being in the room WITH them during playtime, before they even come out of the cage, and in a SITTING position so that you become a non-threatening fixture, part of the room so to speak. As of now, when you come into that room, you're introducing yourself as something new and could be viewed as a threat by them. Just something to think about.

Good thought, Kevin. it's sometimes hard to tell what is causing things. That is why I started up top asking all the questions I could possibly think of to find the cause of the situation... and I am currently stumped on how to fix it.

Jess, I've thought of that too, and I've spent hours in there sitting on the futon and letting them run around and investigate me at their leisure. I also come in while they're sleeping and give them treats and just talk to them. They don't *always* bite but when they do, it's quite deliberate and out of the blue. When I come in, they run over to me. They can jump to me and jump off of me. They do not seem threatened when they bite... like last night, Chloe and Jasmine were grooming me and Wesson came over to investigate what they were licking and just bit my hand and then ran away.

I didn't realize it was unsafe to leave them alone in the room. From now on, I'll only let them out when I'm in there, but they've had run of the room for so long now, I don't know how I'll get them back into their cage when I leave...

I appreciate all your thoughts in trying to help me figure this out. I love my little guys and would never intentionally hurt them. But when they bite, my first reaction is to eliminate whatever is causing the pain. And as for yelling, I tried it *once* when I lost my patience and nothing else was working. I don't make it a common practice to yell at my babies. I love them far too much and don't want to be a big scary thing to them. I just wish they would hurry up and outgrow this stage and become as sweet as my little girls are...

Just a random thought... since they have run of the room I wonder if the biting may be somewhat related to the room being their "territory." Eventhough they may be showing no signs of being threatened by you, maybe it's them trying to let you know it's their space.

I notice my fuzzies are much more nippy when I interact with them in their cage cause it's their territory, but when in the tent biting rarely happens because it's more of a neutral zone.

Maybe try putting them back in their cage whenever they bite so that they make the association that playtime is over when they bite you?

Honey, I sent you a LONG PM about this... take the time to read it and respond to me.

Nadine,

I read it and responded. Thank you very much for your insight and advice. I will start over with them from scratch and hope I'm able to undo my mistakes. :-(

FYI... those of you having the same (or similar) problems with your gliders, this is what Bourbon (aka the Glider Whisperer) said. I'm basically going to start over again with the bonding process and hope that Smith and Wesson can forgive my mistakes.

Bourbon has been following this thread, and she called me tonight to discuss what to tell you.
This reply is divided into sections on the environment, what you have done to be threatening, and what they are doing to defend themselves, their environment, and their “happy little quad”. There is also a section on where to go from here and Smith.

PLEASE do NOT take offense to what is being said, it is for your information and to help you. Don't feel like a failure or a bad glider mom... we have ALL been there, and we ALL made mistakes at some point along the way, thinking we were doing the right thing when we were totally wrong.

INTRODUCTION:
I've had Smith and Wesson since about the end of October. Around Christmas I successfully introduced them to Chloe and Jasmine and now I have a HAPPY LITTLE QUAD. They have access to their own glider-proofed room. They've been biting since December or January.
I didn't spend a whole lot of time with the boys in the tent because they were pretty fearful.
I'm not using any different lotion, shampoo, laundry soap, I don't think I smell any different than I usually do... I've gone down there after I've showered, when I haven't showered, with clean clothes, with clothes they've scented thoroughly, the result is always the same.

They went from your environment into their OWN environment in their OWN glider proof room where they now have their OWN colony (the happy little quad) and their OWN territory to defend. You are telling us that there were no changes with the smells, but you also told us that you have not given them a chance to learn YOU.


WHAT YOU HAVE DONE:

I do not chase them or do anything threatening.

These are the things that you have told us about that the gliders perceive as threatening.

No amount of hissing at them, pushing them away, yelling, telling them "no", blowing in their faces, etc will get them to stop.

This is ALL negative reinforcement.

I go down there and feed them and play with them every night.

You are entering their domain.

...because they were still pretty fearful and I had a hard time catching them to put them back in their cage.

This is where you first established the relationship with them. They were initially fearful of you, and you were forcing them to go into an area that you wanted them to go into. By chasing them, you reinforced their fear of you and they perceived your actions as predatory (you were gonna have them for a snack... or so they thought.)

and try to keep them away from any exposed skin. Sometimes I yell out in pain. I try to keep them away from exposed skin, I push them away, And keeping them off of me is difficult. I was pulling them off of me last night.

These are ALL things that can be perceived as a threat to them. A moving hand, a loud noise, and any other quick movements are things that they see as threatening, and they will defend their colony against it. They use their teeth to defend themselves (see defenses below).

I'm to the point where I can't take it anymore. I'm afraid I'm going to lose my temper and really hurt them. I'm running out of patience.

They are going to feel every tiny bit of apprehension and fear that you have of getting bitten. Those negative emotions are something that they will defend their colony and territory against. Is it not true that the biting gets worse when you get more frustrated and angry with their behavior?

We MUST remember that we are a giant in their little world. Please read this thread, it will help you get into the mindframe of your glider, and see life through their eyes: http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/..._wit#Post933759
Remember, basic animal instinct is fight or flight when they are afraid. Before the introductions, they resorted to the flight behavior because it was NOT their environment or territory; AFTER the introductions the only defenses that they have is their teeth to defend their territory and their “happy little quad”. Below is a list of ways that they have used their defenses against what they FEEL is a threat.

THEIR DEFENSES:
They've been doing it since about the time I put them all together.

BECAUSE they now have their women and their own room to defend.

When I walk into the room, they stop whatever they're doing and run over to me and jump on me and crawl all over me.

They are automatically going after what they see is an intruder to their territory, and you MUST remember that you had to CHASE them in order to put them into their cages. They look at you as trying to take them away from their “happy little quad” or have them as a midnight snack.

Wesson bites more than Smith.

He is the top dog in the cage, and it is his responsibility primarily to defend the colony. Smith will follow along, but as detailed below, his issues are quite different.

Wesson mostly bites my ears, wrists, hands, fingers, nose, chin.

That is what was exposed when you were chasing them around the tent and using the above negative reinforcements.

Both he and Smith bite at my clothes too.

The clothes have your smell, and it is another part of the intrusion to their territory. We still cannot eliminate smells as a contributing factor.

And they don't bite when they're sleeping in my shirt, it's only when they're awake for the night.
They bite all the time, but only when they're awake.

(Bourbon joked that her and her husband only fight when their eyes are open.) The fact is, whenever they are awake, he will protect his territory and colony. When he is awake, he can see you and recognize/remember you as a threat. When he is inside your shirt, he is in YOUR territory and it is not his to defend.

You said they don't seem upset when they bite. BUT, you also said: And I can feel the effort they put into biting down so hard. It's like they're putting all of their strength into their bite. Wesson does not lick when he bites. He just comes up to me and chomps down.
They do not start with nibbles, it's just an all-out bite. Obviously they ARE apprehensive and/or afraid. Because they initially reverted to flight, and then changed to fight, I would ascertain, based on everything you wrote, that they are biting out of apprehension and fear.

WHAT TO DO NOW:
Basically, the first thing to do is work on trust issues. They need to trust you, but you also need to develop trust in them. For this to work, you need to start at ground zero... which is where the next paragraph begins. PLEASE do NOT take offense to what we are saying, we ALL have to start somewhere, and this is where we think you need to start.

As Angelic4296 said: Try being in the room WITH them during playtime, before they even come out of the cage, and in a SITTING position so that you become a non-threatening fixture, part of the room so to speak. As of now, when you come into that room, you're introducing yourself as something new and could be viewed as a threat by them.


The first thing you need to do is get a flannel shirt. Call that THEIR shirt. Do NOT remove their shirt from their room. That shirt must also become a part of their environment, the shirt will NOT be perceived as a threat as it will always have their smell... do NOT wash that shirt for a month (when you do wash it, wash it without any detergents or fabric softeners so it retains some of their smell), it needs to be stinky and smell like them. Take that shirt after they mark it and urinate on it, and wear it every SINGLE time that you walk into that room. Rub the shirt on your hands, face, and ears so that they ALL smell like them. Take a shower before this with NO soap, NO shampoo, NO lotion, NO bodywash, NOTHING that has an odor on it. (and NO deodorant!!!) Tide, Gain, and Era are the WORST for gliders as they have very pungent smells to them. Ivory Spring, floral soaps, body washes, fruity shampoos, and ANY other scents that you put on your body MUST not be present. That way, we can distinguish whether or not the smells are a contributing factor to their behavior.

During the first 2-3 days, while the flannel shirt is being marked by them, you need to wear a hoodie, keep the hood up to protect your ears, and keep your hands covered. DO NOT allow them to climb into your shirt to sleep. NOT even the girls! If the girls are sweet, they will remain sweet during this process. You can carry the girls around with you during the day, but do NOT remove the boys from that room. The girls MUST be back in the room BEFORE the boys wake up. The food MUST be present when the boys wake up. At that point, the boys will see that you are bringing the girls back to them, which will help a little with the trust. When you are in the room, stay FAR away from the food. Keep the food dishes next to their sleeping area. That way, when the boys come out, they can eat without feeling like they need to protect the food.
DO NOT try to touch, pet, or reach for the boys AT ALL for an entire week. You can see the boys at all times, YOU avoid THEM. The intent at this point is to become a part of the environment, NOT a part of the boys. If they come near you, hide your face, and keep all skin covered. They will climb around on you, and that is acceptable, but DO NOT attempt to interact with them at this time. DO NOT RUSH THIS PROCESS! This process is on THEIR timetables, and it must remain that way. It's about what they want and need, not what we want them to be for us.
When they climb on you, you can gently lift your arms to encourage them to jump onto something else, this is NOT about them interacting with you, rather it is about them being comfortable with you in the room and NOT feeling threatened (basically you are a tree). If the GIRLS are inside of your clothes, or the girls are interacting with you, the boys MIGHT consider this as threatening (remember that you are perceived as trying to eat them... so handling the girls is trying to eat their colony).

If you had known, this process should have been done before they got introduced to the girls. But, since they are together, we need to work with them as they currently are. They should have learned to trust you before they were allowed to be with the girls AND before being given their own room. The trust needed to develop before more freedom/space/gliders were introduced. I'm not trying to be harsh, and you didn't know any better at the time, so lets just move forward from here. These boys don't HATE you, they are terrified, and this process with help to mend those fences and create trust between you.

Spend as MUCH time in the room in the corner as you can. During the day as well as at night, you can read a book in the corner while you sit there. As often as possible, and in a non-threatening way to get them used to your presence without feeling threatened.

THIS is NOT the end, they will need work, but they CAN learn to trust you and become your friends.
Please remember that this is all about the differences between intentions and perceptions, you are going in there with the BEST of intentions, but they are so terrified and they don't see you as being helpful.


SMITH:
Smith is a follower, his is more that he sees your pinky finger as an escaped giant mealworm that he REALLY wants to eat. But he is going to follow what his brother does, so as things get better with Wesson, they should also improve with Smith. Smith is looking at Wesson as his protector, but he is also a warrior... Wesson is a leader, and Smith protects as Wesson directs.

In summary:
1.Get the flannel shirt to keep in their room.
2.Wear a hoodie at first to cover your face and hands.
3.Avoid them, sitting at the opposite side of the room from the sleeping pouch and food.
4.Do this for an entire week, NOT attempting to touch them at all. Become the environment.
5.Don't carry the boys around, and always have the girls back when the boys wake up.
6.This could/should have been done before the large room and extra gliders were brought into the picture.
7.ALWAYS take a shower before entering their room, with NO soap, just water.
8.ONLY wash the flannel shirt once a month, and wash it in plain water so it retains some of their smell.
9.Always wear the flannel shirt whenever you are in their room, do NOT remove the shirt from the room, they must trust the shirt.
10.Don't expect your gliders to be like anyone else's gliders, they are all different, learn to appreciate the differences. Don't set your expectations too high, it can lead to frustration. BUT don't set them too low, just work on one step at a time and be sure to love them as they are.
11.Read the article on what bonding is like from a glider perspective, it will give you a deeper understanding of your gliders.
12.Don't feed biting treats from your fingers, it will associate their teeth with your fingers.
13.Resume with the licky treats after the first week.
14.KEEP US UPDATED!!
15.CALL BOURBON! She is awesome and she really wants to help you with your gliders. She can also give additional help with these boys.
16.IF this method doesn't work... Bourbon has MANY other options as to how to proceed with these boys.

NOW... first make sure to read the linked article!! Then, let me know if it would be okay to post this on the thread... then others with this problem (believe me, you are NOT alone) will be able to have this method available to help them as well.

this may work if they actually rationalize, however gliders are creatures of habit, and their mode of thinking is very basic, by removing them from their colony, actually is looked at as a threat to their colony as they are not there to protect them if needed.. now this is based primarily on their own mind frame meaning.. if they are unsure of the safety of the colony and they do not trust, then it is a threat. if they already trust their humans, their environment it is perceived totally different.

I have a colony of 6 that is very trusting, I can remove cage mates, handle them, enter their domain.. no problem, but when I take "Jack" the boss dog out with me.. he is very anxious in a closed environment, he has to see what is going on. in the cage he also has to have an open environment type pouch, with that he has no problem. but Jack had to learn trust before I could colonize him, and had to get the others to trust as well. if not I would be constantly waiting to get bit, and would risk the biting behavior be spread back through the colony, after all if one is afraid, their fear becomes one with the rest.

This is often noted when you have one glider who crabs, and the rest follow, find the crabber, teach them to trust, many times the others are quiet as well

Just a quick update for those who are interested. Monday night, I went into the glider room wearing a hoodie and sat on the floor on the opposite side of the room from where their cage is. They came over and started investigating immediately, but I was completely covered so when Wesson (I assume it was him but with my face covered, I couldn't see hehe)started biting me, it didn't hurt (much) and so I was able to sit still and not make any noise. He came back to investigate a few times and bit me on a few of those occasions (only around the head and upper shoulder areas) but eventually gave up. Then I got tired and took my hoodie off and left it in the room for them to scent and slipped out the door quietly.

Last night, I actually talked to Bourbon on the phone for about an hour. She told me to keep him in my sight at all times so I can learn his body language. She told me about a couple of tricks I can use to lure him down below my shoulders (with licky treats) and keep him in front of me so I can watch him. Hopefully, with careful observation, I can learn what triggers his biting. Bourbon thinks he may have a "little man complex" (aka a Napoleon complex). For those who may not be familiar with this term, it is basically when short/small people (or I've seen this in dogs too) try to act all mean and aggressive to make up for what they may be lacking in size.

After I got off the phone with Bourbon, I went to the glider room, put on the hoodie that I had left there the night before, and brought some yogurt with me. Any time Wesson jumped on me, I offered him some yogurt. When he tried to get on my back and my shoulders, I attempted to lure him back to where I could see him with the yogurt. This didn't always work, but at least I didn't get bitten at all last night. YAY! She told me to steer clear of treats that require teeth at this point. So no mealies, dried fruit, yoggies, etc. She wants him to learn to associate licking with me.

Bourbon said she wants to talk to me every night so I can report my progress and see what she has to say. So I will call her tonight after I get home and can get showered (no soap) and change into the clothes I've been wearing into the glider room. She's really sweet and I've enjoyed chatting with her. She really knows a lot about their moods, body language and instincts. I will post updates periodically so that others having the same problem can follow along and try some of Bourbon's recommendations with their gliders.

Wesson may never be as sweet as my girls are, but my goal is to have him be happy and to trust me. I don't want him to be fearful every time I go spend time with them. Thank you, Nadine and Bourbon for all your help!

This is AWESOME - I'm enjoying reading about your progress and what you're doing with these two. Keep the updates coming...and thank you so much for sharing your experiences with these two little ones! Good luck!

Thanks so much for sharing your story. I have certainly learned alot! I look forward to hearing how things go.

awesome! I look forward to hearing more about how it goes!

A bite-free night, that's great news! ::) Bourbon will definitely give you advice to get you through this, so keep workin hard with your babies and definitely thank you for the updates so other newer members can follow along if they're having the same issue....

Ok update #2:

Wednesday night I ended up having to work really late so I didn't end up getting home until around 2am. Luckily, I had remembered to feed them before I left for work that afternoon so their bellies were full by the time I came down there. I took some baby food peaches down into the glider room with me. They weren't crazy about them but licked at them a little bit. After they all greeted me, I sat down on the futon in there and read a book for a little bit. Everyone just kind of went about their business. Smith came over and sniffed at me once, but other than that everyone just kind of left me alone. The futon is located under a window and Wesson climbed up on the screen and pretty much kept an eye on me from there. I should also mention that I forgot to take a shower before going down there and I didn't really notice much of a difference in their behavior. After a while, I took my ("their") sweatshirt off and left to go to bed.

Thursday night I got out of work late, but not quite as late as Wednesday night. I hadn't fed them earlier that afternoon, so I had to grab their dishes, clean them and put their food out for them. I brought blueberry yogurt down with me and they loved it. I had all 4 of them on the front of my ("their") sweatshirt going to town licking the yogurt. After the feeding frenzy died down (haha) I went and sat on the futon again. I took the yogurt with me and was talking on my phone with Bourbon. Smith and Wesson played on the window screen for a while and I held some of the yogurt out to him (but much closer to me than to him). After a while, he started to timidly approach it and finally licked at it. But whenever another glider would make a noise, he'd jump away really quickly. I can see now how "apprehensive" (Bourbon's description) Wesson is around me. I can't believe I hadn't noticed it before and I felt really badly that he felt that way. So now I'm just taking it slowly and trying to teach them that I'm friendly and not going to eat them. :-) Wesson did start to crawl onto my shoulder and start sniffing my hair (again, I had forgotton to shower before going down there) but he did not bite! Also, everyone was in such a hurry to greet me when I came in there, I hadn't had a chance to put my ("their") sweatshirt on over my tank top before everyone started jumping on me. I thought for sure with all that exposed skin, Wesson would be chomping down, but he didn't bite at all. I was so proud of him!! So for a treat, when I was getting ready to leave and go to bed, I had cut some drinking straws (the ones from Arby's are clear, so those are the ones Bourbon recommends using)into about 3" sections and picked up some Hunt's snack pack vanilla pudding from the store. I sucked pudding up into each of the straws and gave each of them a straw as a treat after such good behavior. Bourbon said that they don't make the connection that since they were good, they got a treat. She said doing that is more for my sake and also reinforces the idea that Nae = yummy things. :-) She also said that if I hold the straw and let Wesson lick the pudding out of it, it's a trust-building thing because not only am I in close proximity to him, but as far as he's concerned, I have vanilla pudding coming out of my fingertip! And maybe he'll think that if he licks me (instead of biting) I'll taste like vanilla pudding. :-)

(So for those of you that are keeping track, that's 3 nights in a row without a single bite! Yippee!!)

Anyway, I'm going to keep taking things slowly until Smith and Wesson are more comfortable with me (when they can approach me without trepidation). Another thing Bourbon suggested was instead of leaving their cage open all the time, to close it after they've gone to bed so that *I* can be the one to let them out when they wake up each night. This establishes to them that the glider room is not their territory, that I am allowing them to have their freedom and use of the room.

I can definitely see progress with Wesson and I don't mind taking a step back and taking things slowly and getting to know my little guys better. I will continue to post updates and keep everyone informed as to progress, and, God forbid, setbacks. I hope someone else can learn from my experiences. I told Bourbon last night that when I got my girls, they were already sweet and outgoing from the beginning so it didn't take much to bond with them. So when I got the boys, I may have taken things too quickly with them. Bourbon actually said that when she rehomes rescues, she prefers to send them to homes with no previous glider experience for that reason (so people will have that fear of doing something wrong to hurt them, and will take things slowly to get to know them so they'll be more careful).

Great to hear things are going so well!

I've been following along in this thread, and I am so happy that taking a step back has allowed more of a secure bond to start forming, that's such great progress! Definitely keep updating, it's super refrehsing to read about an owner really doing her best to have the best possible relatioship with her gliders, no matter what it takes!

Great News Lonea!

Alright, update #3:

Friday night was more of the same... came home after work, let them out of their cage, fed them and spent some time sitting on the futon reading. Everyone went about their business eating, playing and running around and didn't really take any notice of me, which was fine.

Saturday night, we were out late for a friend's birthday party. After we got home, I went down to feed them and let them out of their cage. Chloe was licking my hand (like she frequently does) and Wesson came over to investigate. Usually when he does this, he bites. But I held still and let him see what Chloe was doing. He then started licking my wrist!! I smiled and told him "Good boy!" He bit me once--really gently, not as hard as he had done in the past-- and I hissed at him and he stopped (hissing has never made him stop in the past). He licked a little bit more and I praised him and told him what a good boy he was and then he bit (gently) again. Again, I hissed at him and he stopped. After that, I kept a close eye on his mouth and when he opened it and looked like he was going to bite, I hissed and he stopped before he even got his teeth on me. These signs of progress are so exciting!!

Sunday, I spent the day cleaning the room and washing some of the fleece I had hanging on the walls and their cage set (except the pouch they were sleeping in) so I didn't let them out Sunday night. Call me selfish, but I wanted the room to stay clean for a little longer hehe.

Last night (Monday), I went down to feed them and let them out. I brought some blueberry yogurt in with me and talked with Bourbon (giving her an update on how the weekend went) while I sat on the futon and watched them play. Whenever Wesson would (timidly) approach, I would hold out some yogurt to him and he would come lick it and make those happy little contented sounds (I love those!!). He didn't even attempt to bite. I stayed down with them for about a half hour and made sure everyone got some yogurt and then gave them some straws filled with vanilla pudding. They seemed more excited about them this time than they were the first time I did this. Wesson wouldn't hold onto his straw so I held it for him as he licked the pudding out (which kept him in close proximity to me for an extended period of time).

This week, I'm just going to kind of observe their behavior and try to learn their body language. I'm going to continue to attempt to earn Smith and Wesson's trust and teach them that biting (even softly) is not okay. I find myself looking forward to our time together and I'm more relaxed now that I'm not constantly trying to defend myself from Wesson's teeth. I would love to someday have the kind of relationship with them that JillMarie has with Arwen or Liezl has with her gliders, but until that day comes, I'm going to delight in getting to know them and just take things at *their* pace.

I will continue to update as things progress. I'm sure I'm not the only one with apprehensive gliders and if this thread helps even just one person build a stronger friendship with their glider(s), then all the time I've spent writing updates is worth it! :-)

Wonderful news!!!!

Update:

I didn't spend a whole lot of time with them this last week. I had been working days so I was getting up at 4am and working 10+ hours/day. I was exhausted by the time I got home, so I would feed them and go to bed. The plan was to just continue observing them and getting to know them. Bourbon told me that I wasn't to give them any treats that they had to use their teeth for, but as they are on the Priscilla Price diet and it calls for daily mealies, I was worried that they weren't getting all of the nutrients they needed. So I put their mealies in their food dishes figuring that if I wasn't holding the dish or mealies, they wouldn't associate them with me. Well, I didn't wash my hands after putting the mealies in their dish, so I imagine my hands had a delicious smell prompting Wesson to take a chunk out of my thumb. In his defense, he has never been very careful about where he bites when mealies are involved. He would commonly miss the worm and bite my fingers when I would hold the mealies. So I think that's what happened. To test my theory, later in the week I put more mealies in their food dishes but washed my hands before going back into the room and I didn't get bitten, even though my hands were inspected thoroughly. All 4 of them tasted my hands but no one bit. Yay!

Wesson was really sweet one of the days... everyone was sleeping except him when I came in, so I had a little one-on-one time with him. He came over to me and let me pet him and give him kisses and scratch his back and he even gave me kisses. I think he's still a little apprehensive but I will continue to take things slowly and earn his trust.

Posting these updates really helps me to reflect on my experiences each night and examine my behavior as well as theirs. It would be easy to focus on getting bitten and think that I'm losing ground with them and forget about the progress that has been made. But it wouldn't be the truth. I have been letting Wesson near my skin and I haven't been wearing the hood on my hoodie sweatshirt and I haven't had my ears bitten in 2 weeks now. He got a little rough when licking/grooming me one night, but I watched his mouth and hissed before he bit and it reminded him that I wasn't going to stand for that behavior any more.

So there is definite progress being made, despite the fact that I haven't been spending a lot of time down there. I'll be working nights again this next week so I will be able to spend more time with them. My only worry is that this next weekend, we're going to MN to visit my husband's family for Easter. I don't really want to take them all with me, but I don't know who is going to feed them while I'm gone, or whether it would be a good idea to have a stranger come in and feed them. I will talk to Bourbon and see how best to handle the situation.

Thank you for the update, it's great to follow your progress.

Really enjoy reading your posts and seeing all of your great progress!

I too enjoy reading your updates. Thanks for taking the time to do it!

Had a bit of a setback this past weekend... I was going in to feed the critters and my husband wanted to come in with me. I told him I was working on trust issues with Wesson and didn't think it was a good idea but he came in anyway. He was quite nervous about Wesson so I made sure to coax Wesson to jump to me any time he jumped over to Nate. My first mistake was that I didn't bring any yogurt in with me to distract him. Also, Wesson is quite territorial and didn't like Nate coming into his territory. So he started biting me after Nate left. I ended up having to put my hood up to protect my ears and neck. At one point, Wesson jumped onto my head, came up over the top, reached down and bit the bridge of my nose and then just as quickly, ran away. I was afraid that I had done irreparable damage by letting my husband come in, but Bourbon assured me that I wasn't starting again at square one. She said that sometimes you don't know whether your gliders are ready for the next step until you try. I now know that mine are not ready to have others in the room with them yet (at least the boys). I also know the importance of consistency... I need to have the licky treats with me *every* time I come in and I need to continue taking things slowly and moving at their pace. Wesson approaches me with less trepidation now, but I still have not earned his trust, nor he mine. It's still going to take some work, but to see the progress we've made in such a short amount of time is encouraging. I'm enjoying getting to know my little fellas and I have high hopes that we will be good friends if I continue learning his body language, facial expressions and generally what makes him "tick". Bourbon has been a great resource for helping to explain the way gliders think and interpreting some of their behavior for me. She has been quite reassuring that even though it may have not been a great idea to have Nate come in with me the other day, I did not undo everything I worked so hard to accomplish these past couple of weeks.

I will continue to keep updating and will include the good and the bad. Bourbon thought it would be important to include this story to reassure people that may be following along that it's ok to make a mistake or two. Gliders are benevolent creatures that will forgive your mistakes and it's still possible to make progress with them despite slip-ups.

let me add that last night they had a fairly good night which was good to show her that even though he had a bad night the night before, that with the consistency , he fell right back into the new routine.

when dealing with issues, every day will not always be a great day, not every day will be as expected.but we too must allow them the opportunity to have their little quirks, it is up to us, to learn how to deal with them.

I am very proud of her, she has done such a great job with Wesson, I told her to go back and read what she first posted.. look at the progress she has made, and remember that it will take consistency and time , but that she has done a great job, and so has he..

This has been really interesting to follow, and even though both my gliders are very bonded to me, it's been a great reminder on how to take things from their perspective and really watch their body language and their responses and behavior....congrats on all of your progress, you must feel so proud and thrilled!

Quick update:

Nothing has really changed much. Wesson seems to approach me with more confidence now, but is still apprehensive. The other day, Smith was standing on my hand and licking me. I praised him and told him what a good boy he was and then he'd bite. Not hard enough to break the skin, but hard enough to make it hurt. Then he'd lick a little more and then bite again. I'd "hiss" at him every time he bit and would praise him when he would lick. I wanted to encourage the licking but not the biting. I eventually called Bourbon to ask her what his behavior meant and she asked how many times Smith would lick before he bit. I told her it varied. Between 20 or 30 times sometimes or 2 or 3 times others. She told me to let him lick 2 or 3 times and then move my hand and give him a treat. Then do it again and gradually increase the amount of times I allow him to lick before I give him a treat. This teaches him to lick when he wants a treat and not bite. It rewards him for the good behavior but stops him before he can exhibit the behavior we're trying to discourage. It really made sense. I haven't had the opportunity to practice this yet as Smith hasn't tried to lick me again. Last night I worked until almost 2am so I didn't spend much time with them as I was tired and wanted to go to bed. I put some mealies in their food bowls which kept them pretty distracted and I slipped out of the room.

It's pretty slow-going, but I'm looking forward to having some happy babies that trust and love me and I will do whatever it takes for however long it takes to achieve this.

Very cool strategies from Bourbon, keep updating whenever you can, I know that I appreciate hearing this info alot

I think Bourbon needs to write a book!

Yea! Bourbon rocks!!! She has helped my boys and I, as well, tons!!

Nae - SO much for taking the time to write this thread and continue to update it! I have learned a lot from reading this and I am sure others have also. It sounds like you and Wesson are going in the right direction! YEA! How wonderful that Bourbon has been such a great mentor!

Another quick update:

I've been having computer issues and I've been lacking the patience to deal with them so I haven't been updating. Bourbon called me last week to make sure everything was still ok since I hadn't posted. She's such a sweetie! I've been SO tired working first shift that by the time I get home from work and eat dinner, I'm ready to just collapse into bed. So needless to say, I haven't been spending the amount of time with them that I should be. I work second shift again this week so I'll be able to spend plenty of time with them. Next week, I need to be getting myself ready to work the graveyard shift (6pm - 6am) so I'll be spending all kinds of time with them in the glider room. :-)

So there hasn't been a whole lot of change in the situation. Things are pretty much status quo. Smith went to town grooming my hand the other night and it used to be that he would bite every so often after licking it. The other night, he didn't bite at all. I tried to do what Bourbon suggested, which was count the licks and offer a treat after 5 or 6 licks to catch him before he starts biting. This encourages the licking behavior and teaches him that he gets yummy things when he licks me, but when I offered him the yogurt after a few licks, he wanted nothing to do with it and kept licking my hand haha.

I took both Smith and Wesson (and the girls) with me to the Wisconsin Spring Social last weekend. They were so good and just slept in my shirt all day. Jasmine kept getting restless and wanting to crawl out of my shirt and find a place by herself between my shirt and my sweatshirt, but I was not sitting still and was afraid she'd fall out or get hurt, so I put her in a bonding pouch for a while. After she settled down, I would offer her the chance to go back into my shirt to snuggle with the others and she would do fine there. Smith and Wesson even got their nails trimmed and were very good about that too. They didn't crab, cry, or even stress-poo. After the nail trimming, they got a great big mealie and the whole experience was forgotten and everything was peachy haha.

Wesson is still apprehensive in his approach to me, but isn't biting. Smith has started biting my shirt a little bit, but doesn't bite my skin. He used to bite my hair, but since I switched shampoos, he hasn't done that. It may be coincidence, or it may be that he took offense to the smell of my other shampoo. Quite frankly, I wasn't nuts about the smell of the other shampoo, nor was I happy with my hair after using it hehe. So I will not go back to that shampoo again. :-)

So pretty much, things are staying pretty much the same. I'm sure I'll have more to write once I start spending more time with them.

Congrats on continued progress, that's great

I think it's about time for another update...

When I work day shift, I am so exhausted when I get home that I don't spend much time with the gliders. I just go down, feed them, let them out of their cage and then slip out and go to bed. I feel bad about it, but I'm just so tired...

I worked night shift (2pm-10:30pm) so by the time I get home, they're up and about so I feed them, let them out of their cage and then I generally stay down there for an hour or two. When I'm standing, they all want to jump on me and interact. When I'm sitting on the futon, they're all apprehensive of me, and they rarely come over to me. I find that strange... even the girls, who are generally very friendly, don't ever come over to me when I'm sitting down, even when I have treats for them. Any ideas why this would be?

Also, one night (I don't remember what night it was), Wesson came over and bit my ear really hard. I had been giving them yogurt and Smith had been licking my hand so I was watching him to make sure he wasn't biting and Wesson ran over, bit my ear, and ran away so quickly I didn't even see it coming. I know Bourbon would tell me it's my own fault for not keeping an eye on Wesson at all times like she advised. But Smith still bites once in a while when he licks and I was focusing on him and trying to interrupt his licking with treats before he bites. The problem is, when he's licking my hand, he wants nothing to do with treats of any kind... even vanilla pudding! So it's hard to stop him before he bites.

And the bite from Wesson? I have no clue what provoked it. I was wearing the sweatshirt that stays in their room, I wasn't chasing him or anything, I had been giving him yogurt when he came over to me earlier. I'm stumped. We were doing so well!

I still don't trust him though. Smith was licking my hand last night and Wesson came over to investigate and bit my finger. It wasn't as hard as it had been before I started working with Bourbon, but it was still a bite. I don't know...maybe he was just trying to remind me that he can bite me if he really wanted to...

I'm also not sure Wesson exhibits "typical" alpha male qualities. For instance, the other night they were just waking up from a nap and were all still on their pouch. I held out a spoon with some yogurt and the girls (who were closer) started lapping it up. Then Smith came over and was licking at it and Wesson, who was more toward the bottom of the pile was trying to peek through Jasmine's legs to get some. He didn't hiss or bark or make her move or anything. Then at one point, Smith was literally standing on Wesson's head while he was licking the yogurt and again, Wesson made no move to get Smith's foot off of his head. In fact, I don't necessarily see any of them demonstrating what I would think of as dominant behavior... When I get a chance, I'll talk to Bourbon about this...

Starting this weekend, I will be working 6pm - 6am shifts temporarily. When I'm at work, obviously I won't be able to spend any time with my babies at all, but on my days off, as I need to kind of keep on the opposite sleep schedule, I'll be able to spend all night down there with them. I'll probably grab my laptop and watch movies or something... I'm not sure how much time I'll have to post updates, but I'll post when I can...

Thanks for the update

Sometimes I chalk up a random nip/bite to it being just that...random lol....

I have some experience with biters not as much as Bourbon but I am in WI myself( Kenosha) if you need help or support just let me know my number is in my profile.

Any new updates? I've learned so much following your journey with your quad. Wishing you the best of luck!

I didn't think anyone was interested in this anymore but evidently there are still a few followers so I'll post an update.

I went down to spend some time with them last Tuesday night (after 4 nights being away at work). While I'm not home, I keep them locked in their cage all night. They have toys and wheels in there to keep them occupied and it's a sufficiently large cage so I'm not too worried about it. I make sure they're fed before I leave in the evening.

I fully expected Wesson to be unhappy with me keeping him locked up for 4 days and not spending much time with them, but they were all very good. They wouldn't let me out of the room to get food for them! They kept jumping on me. Chloe and Jasmine were licking and licking and even Smith was licking and licking my hands (no biting). Wesson was on me and letting me pet him but he didn't show any affection (not that I expected him to). So I stayed in there and played with them all for quite a while. I didn't bring any yogurt in with me because I wanted to see how things would go. Since they were so good, I brought in some vanilla pudding-filled straws and they were all kinds of excited about them. Jasmine is very independent (she even likes to sleep by herself) and while the others would prefer to have me hold the straws for them, Jasmine takes hers and won't let me touch it. I tried to turn it around for her and she grabbed onto it with both hands and her mouth and wouldn't let me, so I let her be. The next night when I gave her another pudding straw, she grabbed it and ran up near the ceiling in case I tried to take it from her again. LOL They're way too cute!! I adore the cute little chirping noises they make when they're eating something yummy.

Even though I couldn't/can't spend time with them whem I'm on shift all night, I go in during the day while they're sleeping and peek in on them to make sure everyone's alright. I sometimes will give them a yoggie or a piece of dried fruit. I usually stroke them and give them kisses and tell them how much I love them.

So on my 4 days off, I spent time down in the room with them and on the 4th day, Wesson bit me (my ear and my arm), Smith bit me (while he was licking me) and actually drew blood, and Chloe bit my leg. It was like they knew I was going to lock them in their cage for the next 4 days. Chloe usually only bites when it's an accident (she's not careful when she's grabbing mealies from me) so I was surprised by this biting from them. I haven't given them mealies in a while because their bedding got moldy so I had to change out their bedding and keep them out of the fridge for 3 days so they could get the moldy stuff out of their system so they'd be safe to feed to the gliders again. I even had yogurt with me that night. I don't know what the biting was all about... maybe they were just crabby. I don't know, but I am not taking it personally.

I haven't been spending much time with them because my parents were visiting from Michigan and we were quite busy. So far, there hasn't been much of a change. I need to find time to get in touch with Bourbon so I can talk to her about the next step and actually try to build a relationship with them. Smith and Wesson are still quite apprehensive and I'm not seeing much progress. However, I've been SOOO busy, that I haven't been spending nearly as much time with them as I should, so I know it's going to take quite a bit longer than it normally would because of that.

I was surprised at work today that they changed my schedule, so I'll be working second shift for the next 2 weeks. When I get home tonight, I'll be able to spend some time with them. I was going to close them in their cage today while they're asleep (like I usually do) but they're not sleeping in their cage. They're hanging underneath some fleece I have hanging on the walls and I can't get them into their pouch (little stinkers). Bourbon thought that if I actually wait until they're awake and let them out at night, maybe Wesson wouldn't be so territorial. I honestly don't know if it's making that much of a difference. Wesson has still been biting (though not nearly as much as he used to, and not as hard).

I'll post another update after I talk to Bourbon. It's been a few weeks since I've talked to her and she's probably thinking I've given up haha.

good luck! It sounds like you have your hands full.

Just keep working at it! You are doing the best you can for your babies and they will see that and love you for it, its just gonna take time but its worth it! Good job so far!

Hi! I'm new to GC, but I've been working with Bourbon a little over a week with my very pouch protective girls. One of my girls Ofi tends to bite very hard as well, but I know that she is extremely protective over her friend Mai. It's slow going but I can tell an immense difference from when I first started. I still am not at the point that I can hold them, but they let me pet them and feed them yogurt. I make sure to bring the yogurt every time I go into their cage so that they associate me with something delicious. I know that it is hard to want to scoop them straight up and and kiss them, but I remind myself that the progress we've made, no matter how small and slow, is still progress. I wish you the best of luck in creating a relationship with Smith and Wesson and please don't give up. It seems that every glider and human slave moves at their own pace. Even though we get frustrated and want to be further along, I remind myself constantly that we have to move at their pace and their comfort level. I know my babies have trust issues, but like you, I will do whatever it takes to build my relationship with them. Please keep us updated!!

I talked to Bourbon the other day. It has been far too long hehe! Her advice was to BE CONSISTENT! I was experimenting with not taking yogurt in there with me and was getting bitten. She reminded me that it's going to take longer with me since my schedule is so erratic. So I've been taking yogurt in there with me every day. I've been trying to spend at least an hour in there with them every night after work.

But unfortunately, I'm going to have to change things up again... I discovered last night that my gliders have been chewing holes in the window screens (my husband is going to be TICKED) so I'm thinking that letting them run free in the room isn't a great idea anymore. I can let them out while I'm in there supervising, but I have no idea how to get them back in their cage when I'm ready to go to bed. Anyone have any ideas? They're used to having run of the room and getting one in the cage isn't a big deal, but keeping that one in the cage while adding others? I don't know how many hours it took me last night! haha I'm scared that I'm going to scare them and undo any progress we've made when I try to get them back into their cage. I've tried putting treats in their cage but they usually grab a treat and then run up to the ceiling where I can't reach them to eat it.

Bourbon's assignment to me was to find 3 things about Wesson that others can't say about their gliders. She wants me to get to KNOW him... to study him like I've never seen him before. I've been trying, and I have found plenty of things about Smith, but Wesson seems pretty normal (other than the fact that he bites all the time). So that's what I've been working on lately. (The example she gave was that one of the other people she works with noticed a white spot on the inside of one of her gliders' ears that she hadn't noticed before). So my challenge to those of you who keep up with this thread is to find 3 things about your gliders that no one else can say about theirs (nothing like the color, or they have a tail...). What color are their eyes? They *look* black, but what color are they really? Are there any distinguishing characteristics that distinguish them from another glider of the same color or type? I'd be interested in hearing your responses. :-)

My little Ofi has buck teeth and Mai's stripes come to a little point around her ears. By the way, I had been petting my doggies today and forgot to wash the smell off of me. I got a couple of light bites to remind me to wash my hands lol. As far as getting them in the cage, I wish I had advice to give you. Mine have not had play time out of the cage yet because I know I could not get them back in, and I only have two.

My challenge to you is to find their pupil, trust me you will know when you find it, and once you do go tell bourbon what it looks like.... and another hint look behind the black in their eyes and see if you notice a special color!

As far as getting them back in he cage it wouldhelp if you could post pics of it so we know what your working with but my suggestion right now is get 2 in a zippered bonding pouch and the other 2 in another zippered pouch and carry both into the cage and unzip and release lol then shut the doors quick!

P.S. my kodah is the glider with a white dot in his ear, and the other ear has a little black freckle. Cutest marks I've ever seen!!!!

That's a great suggestion MeganElizabeth! I have even put yogurt drops in the bonding pouch to help entice them in (Ofi has escaped the cage a couple of times ). You are doing great NaeJ and you have made progress. I tried to move to the next step yesterday and slide my hand under my babes, nothing doing. They got very nervous and adjusted themselves to where they would not be in my hand. It is frustrating but I'm just gonna keep on trucking cause I know eventually we WILL get there.

You will absolutely get there abbey, and I tell you what happens, they decide when you are ready for them and then they open their little hearts to you! That's how my kodah was an now he is a bra baby. I still hear crabs when he doesn't want to do something and we are still working on him stayin on me but we get further every day and I finally learned how to listen to him and be ready for him and that was when all the magic began and naej you wll get there too, like bourbon said the most important thing ever is to be consistent, and when in doubt bourbon knows best keep workin hard and pouring your heart out!

What does the color behind their eye mean if you see it? I see it one mine all the time.

Nae - I just completely read through your post from beginning to the end. It's amazing the amount of progress you've made with them and that you now know why they're biting some days and not others!

It seems my little Bella is going to go through a nippy phase...Reading your posts has given me some ideas and encouragement.

And starting tonight, I'll be looking for the special things about Bella and Mia. And their pupil...that ought to be interesting...

This post is great. I just got two new little girls to add to my group and they are both very anti social so I'm gonna be joining you guys in trying to win their trust. I swear my little Tundra has learned bad language and calls me names and swears at me everytime I come near her...lol. She is the most vocal glider I have ever heard. I'll have to study the two of them today and see what I can find different in them.

It doesn't mean anything exceptthat you pay attention to your gliders well enough to notice, good for you! Many owners cannot list one special feature about their gliders because they don't ever take the time t truly learn them.

It doesn't mean anything exceptthat you pay attention to your gliders well enough to notice, good for you! Many owners cannot list one special feature about their gliders because they don't ever take the time t truly learn them.

Any everyone looking forthe pupil, post on here when you findit, I want to know! I swear when you find their pupil you find their soul!

Seriously Just Laughed Out Loud At My Desk!!

Mine only crab when they are in the pouch now. They may bite if I push things a little to quickly. I had to put them in the pouch the other day and good gravy it sounded like a battle in there. The open environment bonding pouch has worked wonders for my girls.

Yea I think pouch protective babies are the best, you spend so much more time wit them cuz they aren't hidden away I personally love it!

OK - So I haven't found three things yet that are different about each girl, but finding a couple on each so far!

I have to say, my babies aren't pouch protective (except a very rare nip when one just really doesn't want to come out). However...Bella has recently started getting very skittish and nervous. Nipping often and not coming to me like before. We've started with the licky treats...and it's helping a little.

I'm also much more concientous of Bella's movements and postures. I can tell when she is starting to stress now! I'm also not being nipped nearly as much. Woohoo!

And all of the comments of stepping back and taking things at their pace - Such a help!

It was time to get out of the tent last night. Mia willingly went into her pouch. Bella, however, was stressed and not going. I tried to persuade her with treats (Mia LOVED that part)...no go. I tried to coax her into the pouch with just a tiny nudge....no go. Ugh. So, I put Mia in the cage, gave Bella a couple minutes to calm down some, and went back to the tent with treats. After lots of saying "It's going to be ok" and a couple treats, she started to relax her posture, and I was able to scoop her up. Of course the sound of the tent zipper freaked her and she jumped again....but definitely a step in the right direction!

This weekend I should have LOTS of time with the girls in the evenings. A couple questions for those that are going throught the process....

1) I'm using Priscilla's diet and mealies are part of the protien source. I'm assuming it'd be best to use those as foraging treats and the others in their 'kitchen'? I've read about Bourbon wanting them to associate nothing they have to chew with me.

2) My girls get tent time every night for at least an hour. Bella, however, is becoming reluctant to come out of the cage...and Mia just sits in the tent waiting for Bella if I put her in alone. Do I just forgo tent time and try to keep Mia corralled in her cage while working with Bella?

3) When getting your babies to walk onto your hand...how long do you sit there and offer it as a perch?

Thanks!!

Ok answers to all 3:
1) bourbon does tell you not to associate chewing food with hands except in the case of mealies unless you have extreme biers (as far as I know from working with her) and it does not sound like this is ur problem at all. It sounds morelike mealies from th hand would work in ur favor for ur girls especially bella because she is becoming stressed and shy and to reverse that you have to show her first and foremost mommy is safe and nothing bad comes from mommy, and then teach her that mommy is the keeper of the good stuff and if she comes to mommy she will get yummy things. Mealies are working great for me and my baby (per bourbons instructions) I am ONLY allowed to feed live and the must come from my fingers I can't even use twezers. Then my rule is he only gets them in my bra during th day and at night he only gets them while he is on me, it is rlly hlping a lot with teaching him to want to be on me.

3) as far as working with bella crawling onto our hand, start this in the cage, put your arm in up to your elbow and just lay it on the bottom of the cage palm down and sit there like that until you want to go to bed, the more time ur arm spens in there the better, and when she does decide to approach you and crawl on you you can stroke hergently with your fingers bu if she runs away again let her. Once she is consistently staying on your arm in the cage ven hen you move, that is when I would try taking her out and wrking with her outside of the cage environment.

2) I would try bathroom time instead of tent time (this will give you more room to interact with you babies in full height so they get used to you standing and moving around with them. If you have a small cage or travel cage that you could put bella into you can bring her in the bathroom inthat and your other baby can roam he bathroom playing while you work with bella in a safe zone. If you don't have that then for now I wuld keep your girls in the cage so you can work on getting bella comfortable again, you want to work in her comfort zone.

I'm sorry these were answered out of order my cursor must have jumped while I was typing lol. I am gonna pm you about some other stuff too! Good luck

Ok so I haven't heard from anyone in a few days, I want to know how everyone is doing. As for my own update..... drumroll please..... kodah has no crabbed in 2 WHOLE days!!! And tonight he dove down my shirt for the first time ever, so id say as a whole we have almost reached our ultimate and I am sooooooo happy!!

Just so everyone knows, our ultimate goal was for him to become so close to me that he wants me above all else enough so that he will always stay on me and never leave me unless it is playtime. He is getting pretty close to this goal right now and currently we are also on a 30 day countdown to see if he can make it 30 days without crabbing, bourbon says if he does then I will never hear crabbing again unless he is absolutely petrified. I want this so bad for us and we our working our little bootys (and tails) off to get there.

Everyone keep posting updates, I think its really helping everyone here to hav the suport of this group! I can't wait to hear how everyone else has been doing!

That is wonderful Meg!

Meg - I love seeing the progress you're having with your little guy!

My little ones aren't pouch protective...so I feel a little odd posting here. But, I have been using so many of the techniques from you guys (and Meg was Awesome answering questions for me) that I'm just going to!

My girls and I had LOTS of quality time together this weekend!

We did bathroom time for this first time which was a totally new experience for them. And they actually stayed on me until they got comfortable with the new room! I was so happy. Bathroom time also allowed me to see how comfortable they are getting with my son (no worries anyone - everything he does is completely supervised!). They were jumping from the cabinet to his shoulder, chattering at him, begging for treats, and Bella even gave him kisses!! He was absolutely on cloud nine!

We also worked on them coming to my hand. Up to this point, Mia would occasionaly come to me when I offered my hand....Bella was very rare. So this weekend I let them play on their cage - when Mia would come to the side of the cage, I would put my hand out, palm down, with that 'L' shape. At first, she just looked at me like I was nuts....the second time she actually looked at my hand and jumped to my arm (better than nothing!), ran up to my shoulder and jumped back to the cage. This started a cycle where she would come to the side of the cage, jump to my arm, run up to my shoulder and then jump back to the cage. After a couple minutes, she stopped jumping to my arm and was climbing onto my hand! We played this game for a while...Bella watching pretty closely. Then Bella actually came down to try it! I was in shock! She only did it twice, but what a feeling.

Yesterday, Mia wanted to play the game again...alternating sides of the cage this time. I decided to take it a step farther and when she jumped to me, I would take a step away, and then back to the cage before she could jump back. Aparently this was even better and one step turned into walking across the room and back. It only took Bella a minute to realize we were going to walk around (which she loves) and she was joining in the game. And then they stopped jumping back to the cage! So, I walked around the living room once, and back to the game room. They jumped back onto the cage and came right back to me. The second time I walked around the living room, they refused to go back to their cage and wound up staying on me while I paced for 15 minutes before they jumped back.

We also did lots of licky treats this weekend....and I'm happy to report that for the first time in almost two weeks...Bella didn't nip me once last night!!!

Thanks to all of you for posting up your progress and the things you're trying with your babies. It is helping us so much!

oh my gosh tricia that is WONDERFUL!!! the game you were playing with your girls is referred to as playing tree, you are their tree and they jump off of and back to you, this is very intrumental in teaching them that you are in fact their permanent tree! i am so happy to hear of the progress you made and absolutely ecstatic to hear that even bella followed suit!!! and no nips you go girl you are doing just absolutely awesome!!

you are making wonderful progress with your girls, i am proud of you and this wasnt even my doing! and btw your girls do not have to be pouch protective to be a part of this group, we are just a bunch of people trying to get that forever bond with our babies and most of us are trying to surpass some struggle along the way to that, you totally fit in

wow, i am so excited for you guys, that made me smile so big to read that post!

Thanks Meg! I'm so excited about going an entire evening with no nipping!

And thanks for letting me be a part of the group. I know bonding takes loads of time...and they were pretty good and starting to trust me...BUT this weekend was wonderful.

I've been sooo worried about Bella going backwards instead of progressing. It's nice to have people to talk to about it!


Sooo - Who else has an update??

Everyone's progress is so encouraging! I worked days all last week so I went to bed before the babies even got up. I'm on nights this week and I'm looking forward to suggie play time!

I have been able to find Smith's distinguishing characteristics, but nothing about Wesson yet (I've been comparing Wesson to his twin brother to see if the things I notice about Wesson also occur with Smith and usually they do). I pulled their pouch out during the day while they were sleeping and looked at their eyes. Chloe's appeared to be brown, and Smith and Wesson's appeared gray. Jasmine wouldn't keep hers open long enough for me to inspect them haha. At night, I keep the bedroom light dimmed so I don't leave enough light to see into their eyes. MeganElizabeth mentioned that "when you find their pupil, you find their soul" and I feel as though I'm missing something. I saw their tiny little pupil, but didn't feel as though I found their soul.

To be honest, I'm starting to feel a little frustrated because not only do I not have the time to be "consistent" with them, but I don't feel like I'm making progress any more. In fact, even though I've been wearing the smelly sweatshirt and bringing yogurt or pudding in with me when I go play with them, Wesson is still nipping. I don't *feel* frustrated when I go in to play with them, so I don't think I'm giving off any vibes that they're reacting to. I just want a close, bonded relationship with them so badly and I don't know what to do to show them I'm a trustworthy person.

Even though I haven't spent much time with them in the last week, I do go in there every day to feed them and pet them while they're still asleep and tell them I love them and give them kisses. Many times, I'll give them yogies or fruit to make up for the fact that I just woke them up haha. (Don't worry, I just put the yoggies or fruit in their pouch with them... I don't feed it to them so they don't associate my fingers with something they need to chew)

I plan to spend a lot of time with them tonight and for the rest of the week as they're usually awake by the time I get home from work. I'm looking forward to seeing them because I miss our play time when I'm working days. This summer is going to be hectic both at work and with vacations and such so I feel bad that I can't establish more of a routine with them. I know it's only making the bonding process take longer but I don't know what I can do about it. I wish I had an office job so I could take them to work with me and spend more time with them while they're asleep, but I work in a lab and around chemicals and I'm thinking that wouldn't be the best place for them.

Lonnea as long as your time with the boys is positive you don't need to feel like you need to be with them every day. Even just wearing them in a bonding bag for an hour while they sleep helps.

I think you have been doing great.

ok, so what i have said about seeing into their soul, its something that you may doubt yourself on because you may let it be something you think so hard on trying to just feel it that you miss it, i did this for a while (and bourbon was my mentor through this process so all i kept telling myself was i cant possibly be connected enough to feel this yet if bourbon can feel it cuz shes way better than me) DO NOT let yourself believe this, while bourbon is incredible beyond her own realizations and an absolute magician/saviour/every good word in the world you could insert here lol, we do not love our babies any less because we are less experienced, and if the love is there i promise you can make this connection. when you see there soul, or rather when you are looking for it, clear your mind of everything but your baby, have only thoughts of your little suggie and look into their eyes and hold theire little gaze and let it just wrap around your heart, the feeling of warmth and love that comes over you while you do this, that is seeing their soul, you connect in a moment of love so strong and all you see is eachother, when that happens youve done it! just keep trying i promise when you are feeling all the right things it will happen, dont force it though, if you try and do it through thinking about it youll miss it, just let it happen.

as far as inconsistencies, i know it is rlly hard when you are working a changing schedule to have availability, and i understand work not being a safe place to bring them to. i cannot bring my baby to work with me to either of my jobs because at one i work with a child with autism who kicks and hits a lot and i cant risk him hitting the baby and my other job is with food and deep frying which is a very bad combination with gliders for obvious reasons lol. so i know its hard to work and leave the babies at home, and it is also hard to make time for them around your schedule, i have school and it is very hard for me to stay up late enough to play every single night. i stay up late as many nights of the week as i can, but an alternative to this is to start waking your babies progressively earlier and earlier each night until they are trained to wake up at a certain time like 7 pm or whatever time it is that works best for you. i am going to start working on this with kodah because although right now i can spend most nights with him playing for at least an hour, when the fall semester starts ill have to be asleep much earlier so i am gonna start adjusting him to my schedule so we will still be able to play together and work around the issue. you may really benefit from trying this as the more time you can get with them consistently the better. as far as the other consistencies such as bringing in the yogurt, wearing the stinky sweatshirt, and all of that, you are still doing all those thing and i know it doesnt seem like it is helping right now but it will over time, and right now in your situation time is key. i know it is hard to do but just keep having patience, asmuch as you can muster, i promise you will continue to see changes and if you workhard enough you will get the relationship, its there you just have to discover it! something that worked seriously like a magic trick for me was live mealies from my hand, i know in all other instances you should not give them food they have to chew directly from you hand, but in the case of live bugs (the thing they love most in the world) it was EXTREMELY beneficial to our relationship to have this treat come only from momma because he learned that to get it he had to be with me and be sweet, and his behavior has done a 180 and he will literally claw his was back to me during the day if i try to set him down. at night and in the early morning when he is in play mode he is still not great at staying on and coming back t momma but we are working on this with mealies and my trick is to not only give them from my hand directly but to ONLY give them when he is on me, maybe this will help you too, i would at least give it a shot, and trust me use live meal worms it works a 100% better. i hope some of this helps you, keep updating us and maybe together we can crack the code of your little boys!!

I agree with Meganelizabeth. Also, don't worry that the relationship is taking longer to build. Mine is taking a little longer as well. The problem with consistency does hamper the process a little but it will happen. Sometimes I don't think I'm doing a thing right that Bourbon has told me to do, but then a little glimmer of progress will show me that it is working, just a little more slowly. My mantra is to look for the positive every time I work with these littles cuties.

ok everyone, how are you all doing i havent heard any updates recently!? kodah and i are fantastic, it has been one week since i have heard that little sound of terror, only one day since hes made a crab of irritation but we will get there on that front, it will just take a little more time because he is fussy in the mornings (that is the only time he still makes the little grumbles at me lol) but i am working on putting an end to that as well! so how is everyone else, i wanna hear some updates!!!

Hi I have been working these last 2 weeks with Bourdon. I have two pouch protective gliders Chloe and Mojo. Chloe is my quiet and ever sooooo stubborn one and Mojo is my curious one. With Bourdons help and guidance I have been able take them from crabbing at the lest little noise or breath I took, to being able to put my hand on top of them with out to much fuss. The other day Mojo had his nail caught in the pouch I had to take the pouch out of the cage with both of them in there and believe it or not neither one of them made a peep and they both held still so I could get Mojo nail unstuck Now remember these two have never been held or really even petted (we are still working on that) It was one of those OH MY GOD moments that Bourdon talks about

Aww that is so awesome to hear! Congratulations to you and your babies we definitely love the omg moments

Well my most precious moment happened today. Ofi and Mai grabbed my hand when I slid it in the pouch beside them, and they kissed and hugged it. They actually moved my hand under them and slept in it for two whole hours!!!!! My eyes teared up. I could not believe that these are the gliders that crabbed at my every move just a short time ago. It was the most amazing moment. My heart has bubbled over with joy at this progress

That is wonderful Abbey! So very fulfilling!

Congrats Kathy! You're doing great with them!! And I'm sure Mojo will remember you helped him!

And Abbey - That's wonderful news!



Thanks to the support and ideas on this thread, my Bella is trusting me more and more. I don't get nipped very often anymore (it's been a couple days) and it's definitely a warning, not a bite. And almost every day she will chatter when she hears me get home until she is safely tucked in my bra for cuddle time. We're moving forward again! And Mia is just blooming! She loves the 'human tree' game these days. Last week when she woke up, she stuck her little head out of my shirt and just chilled out with me, watching everything going on (and with a 4yo little boy...it's a lot!) for about half an hour before she got antsy and wanted to go play and run around.

LOVING THESE LITTLE ONES!

That is awesome Tricia It is amazing how much joy the little things they do bring. bonding with my sweet little rescues has helped me majorly with impatience(I'm one of those that wants everything to happen immediately). The rewards of slowing down and letting them guide me is beyond measure. You definitely learn to appreciate the little accomplishments along the way, even if Bourbon has to remind me of what those are.

Hehehe, I am so proud of everyone on here!! You all are doing so awesome

The omg moments are just so wonderful, I can never get enough of them lol, I so love hearing everyones progress and I'm glad we are going through this process as a group (makes me feel like I have friends and support out there in this process and that is a very good feeling!) I am also glad that the conversation is providing people with useful ideas to try with their babis, that is definiely great! Keep up the good work guys, you are all doing so awesome I'm just so excited for all of us

Hi everyone sorry I haven't posted but I have been sick all week, just getting back on my feet. Before I got sick I took your advise meganelizabeth and just put my hand in the bottom of the cage with a yoggie in it and just sat there, after a while Mojo came over and jump right in my hand and sat there and enjoyed his yoggie LOL I had to immediately text Bourbon it was 6:30 in the morning I haven't made any head way with putting my hand on them when they are in their pouch due to being sick.I have the next two days off so that is what I will be working on. I did notice this morning that Chloe was not hanging up in the corner of the cage but was running around and also came over to see what my hand and arm was.So that alone was exciting and here is the big news!!!! While they were in the pouch I gave them both a yoggie and was able to reach in with my finger and pet each of them on the head a few times each!!!!! Can wait to tell Bourbon that Everyone have a Happy and safe 4th of July

AWW! My heart just melted a bit reading that so sweet! Congrats

Oh yay!!! I'm so so happy for you that is fantastic progress you are doing so awesome! I am so glad to hear of your amazing moments, omg moments rejust so antastic, I'm so proud of you for taking their cues and letting them getused to you, that is definitely how the magic happns!!

Hi well right now I am at a stand still They DO not like me putting my hand down on them when they are in the pouch. I think I am startling them out of a sound sleep and scaring them as I can feel them lunging at my hand and they have a panic crab so I have stop doing that As long as they have a yoggie in pouch I am able to put my finger in and pet them a few times, of course they try to pull away,but there is no crabbing . When they are up in the cage and I put my hand in there ( I have tried both ways palm up and palm down) Mojo will sometimes jump in my hand and eat his yoggie and sometimes he takes the yoggie and runs, he has on two occasions climb up my arm to my elbow but then has jumped off. Chloe will come over and sniff lick and then she wants to nipped on my arm, she will sometimes put her little hand on my finger and take the yoggie but I haven't been able to get her to sit in my hand. Some times they will let me pet them while they are eating there treats and sometimes not. So I'm not sure where to go from here

You just keep doing what you are doing hun, you should listen to what you are saying, you are able to pet them and feed them treats right now, that's a pretty good improvement. I know its still with difficulty that you are doing all this but its much better than when you started and you've got to remember that. Its gonna take a lotof time and work o reach that ultimate relationship but you will. For now just be the treat god, I recommend if you aren't having any serious biting problems that you start feeding live meal worms when they come to your hand, I know this will sound gross and unpleasant but it helps soooooo much! This will make you the treat fairy and your gliders will want to come to you more, I also recommend using a phrase for this so they orient a sttement with treats, bourbon taught me "look what mommy has" and it works great for us! If you are already feeding live worms but not by hand, the bst thing I have to say is man up and get ur hands involved lol. It was very hard for me to talk myself into doing it because I'm terrified of bugs but as soon as live worms started coming from mommies hands kodah literally fell in love with me, it was actually when I started using worms that we started the crabbing challenge because his crabbing disapeared. Other than treat bribing just keep working on what you are doing, they will come around, and as far as fear of you goes try and break that by making urself part of their environment. I know yu are very very busy but whenever you have a chance, and I mean every single time, put your arm up to your elbow in the cage and just lay it there, I know they re still running from you but the more often and longer you do this the more they will get used to you. Just keep workin hun you are doing great!

I just want to thank you all for chronicling this! I plan on getting gliders sometime this summer, and reading what you all have done to build relationships based on trust and absence of fear has been truly enlightening. Please continue to share your experiences and outcomes with me/us!

Sumsum I absolutely agree with what you had to say, I think this thread has been soooo helpful to so many owners new and old and I truly hope this thread continues strong because it has been truly fantastic!

I haven't posted in a while... been working and went to MI to visit my parents for a week. I didn't take the monkeys because I thought it would be better for them if they stayed at home. I had a neighbor feed them every day while I was gone and she did it while they were asleep.

I got home yesterday evening and assumed they'd be upset with me for being gone all week. They weren't. They were almost as glad to see me as I was to see them (though I'm sure the mealies helped haha). I was exhausted from the trip so I didn't spend a whole lot of time with them, but I did spend about 20 minutes or so and pet them and talked to them and told them how much I loved them. No bites (but they were pretty busy getting the mealies out of the bowl I put them in).

Tonight I went down there to feed them in shorts and a tank top (my sweatshirt that I leave with them was still down in their room). I had left the cage open last night and tonight they were already awake so they were jumping all over me when I walked in before I had a chance to put the sweatshirt on. I was certain that Wesson would take that opportunity to take a few chunks out of me, but much to my surprise, he didn't! Also, my husband had been rubbing my feet and legs with grape-scented lotion (yes, I'm spoiled) and I thought that would bother them, but it didn't seem to faze them a bit.

The most exciting thing, though, was I gave Wesson a yoggie and he hung on the outside of the cage eating it. I stood there and kissed him all over his back and his head and pet him and told him how handsome he was and how much I love him and he LET ME!! He just sat there calmly eating his yoggie and I got to give him about a zillion kisses! I also noticed later that like babies, Wesson explores with his mouth. I was wearing "their" sweatshirt that they are quite familiar with by now and he was looking at the drawstrings for the hood. I watched him and saw him bite at them a little bit and then lick at them. He has seen (and tasted) them before and he bit at the first one and then the second. He wasn't attacking, nor did it appear that he was biting very hard. I think it was just his way of tasting and exploring (correct me if I'm wrong, you guys). He did bite my hand gently tonight ("gently" being the operative word here) but not aggressively and not hard enough to draw blood. Chloe was already on that hand licking it and grooming it as was Smith so Wesson probably just wanted to see what all the fuss was about. (He evidently didn't think it was worth the fuss because he immediately lost interest and jumped back to the cage where I had put out some fresh monkey biscuits for them to munch on).

Anyway, I was just so excited about the kisses and love I was able to give Wesson tonight that I just wanted to tell everyone! :-)

OMG I am so excited for you! That is awesome news!! Yes they do explore with their mouths but even the tiny tastes should be discouraged cause that can lead to bigger bites. That is such wonderful news NaeJ. I am so happy for you. (And jealous cause my babies won't let me kiss them yet)

YIPPEEEEE!!!! SUCH good news!! I was a little worried for you, I will admit, but it sounds like it was just about a perfect homecoming!!
So happy for you Lonnea!!! I will have to fill you in on our goings on! Crazy boys!!

I absolutely LOVED your thread! Thank you so much for sharing this with all of us. And your updates are amazing. I am so excited and happy for you, especially after your latest update! And yes, I notice that my fuzzbutts explore with their mouth, often times a gentle nibble is not a bite, just curious exploration. I am very happy for you, thank you for showing that with love and patience, progress, albeit slow, is a guarantee. Looking forward to hearing more!

See PART TWO