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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #904196
02/08/10 03:47 PM
02/08/10 03:47 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79

Just like the raffle stuff, and breeders, rescues should have standards and be as legal as possible.


I think 100% legal.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #904206
02/08/10 04:03 PM
02/08/10 04:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Well, as mentioned, there are "Rescue Homes" and people who help out. Rescues are not the same as Rescuers.

I have 9 little rescued gliders here of the 19 I took in a few weeks ago. I do not consider myself to be a "Professional Rescue" but I do consider myself to be someone who can help out when there is a need.

I couldn't have done it without help from the community. However, having gotten these guys, it was my responsibility to make sure they were vet checked, neutered, and medicated where necessary. If I violated laws in doing that - I'm not aware of it, and I'm sorry. It was my attempt to be completely legal.

I think the "legal" card would only be played if someone chose to be judgemental of the way I did things. There are laws, yes, but - if I'm being supported by this community, there's no need to call in authorities or report my actions. If I do something wrong, I rely on loving support and education.

I am not a "rescue facility" so I'm not aware of standards and laws, etc. I was asked to help out, and I did so. We do need to have community-wide standards, which apply to ALL gliders, rescues or pets or breeders.

However, those standards need to be supported with EDUCATION, not judgementalism. We need to encourage and help everyone to meet those standards, and only "write them off" when they refuse to be gently led. THAT'S where "we cannot save every one" comes in. We cannot force other owners to do what we perceive to be right.

However, are we going to start calling out those who are helping out in the best way they can? Are we going to start criticizing the "standards" of people who stumbled into rescue and are helping out the best way they can? Or are we going to STOP lecturing and START helping? Educate through assistance? GIVE and not TALK?

I'm sure any member of the community could come into my house right now and examine these little 9 sweet rescues and immediately start finding fault. OR, you could come in and offer to make a batch of HPW, or help wash toys and wheels, or send some pouches. What are WE doing as a community to help out those people who Rescue when it is needed.

(I am NOT referring to myself. I have received HUGE support from this community, and I'm VERY grateful.)


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ValkyrieMome] #904211
02/08/10 04:26 PM
02/08/10 04:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
Alden, I would not consider the subject of this post to be geared towards you.

When Eddie and I are talking about standards in the glider community, we are talking about people who call themselves rescuers, are known to be rescuers in the community and have websites geared toward rescuing or are designated rescuers by someone with their permission (I certainly I covered that correctly).

We would NOT be talking about someone who was asked in an emergency to take in a few gliders. I know you would not have taken in 60 gliders regardless of the situation. At least I'm pretty sure you would not have crazy


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: josefine] #904221
02/08/10 04:52 PM
02/08/10 04:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I do NOT take this about me. I am only stating my experience.

I question saying things like if you want to rescue, you need to register 501c3. As I said, there's a difference between Rescue Homes, and people who rescue. There are laws that I don't know, and didn't even consider.

I was in a situation of finding out the laws as I went along, and I'm sure there are many I still don't know.

I was in shock from rescuing 19! I can't even imagine rescuing 60! I am NOT speaking about myself, only trying to distinguish between those who rescue and rescuers.

My attempts were to add another view to the conversation, not make it about me. I certainly do NOT feel at all attacked, and I'm not taking this conversation personally at all.

Edit to add: I found out a great deal about this community from my experience. I now know the difference between people who TALK about rescuing and people who ACT. There is a vast gap! All are in a position to help, whether they are rich or poor. However, few do so. Those few, whether they help with products, money or advice, are golden.

Last edited by ValkyrieMome; 02/08/10 04:54 PM.

Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #904228
02/08/10 05:02 PM
02/08/10 05:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79

Just like the raffle stuff, and breeders, rescues should have standards and be as legal as possible.


EXACTLY!

I recently made a post about this very thing on The Sweet Spot. I see disaster coming for our community rescue process if we don't make changes. Some of us began the process of making changes years ago, but you know how that goes and how things get perceived and so on and so on.

Peggy - I am here, but have very little time to respond. I will look up and copy and paste my definition of a "rescue" as it applies to Kingdom Kritters soon.

There have been many great points made in this thread so far, and I really hope that they continue.

One thing that I hear very often is that many of our rescue homes/rescuers don't want to go through the trouble to be licensed, registered, 501c3, whatever because of the cost, the time it takes to do so and the regulations by both state and federal governing bodies that must be followed once you do.
First, I say - why not? If helping with rescues is something you want to do, then there are options. BUT, if you feel called to be a RESCUE HOME, then you must be concerned about just more than your heart. Being a RESCUE HOME is not just about taking in a glider and finding them a new home and caring for them while they are with you. That is the FUN part of rescue work, but is not at all everything that is required. Why would anyone jeopardize their own gliders, their family, their finances and their home by disregarding the law while posting all over the internet that they are a RESCUER/RESCUE HOME and able to take in both gliders and donations (monetary or material)? I do not understand that at all.

The reality is that most of us that ARE either registered, 501c3, licensed, or appointed as agents of agencies that are (or ALL of the above) understand that rescue work is far more work, paperwork and accountability than one would think.

There is room for ALL levels of rescue work in this community. BUT, the legal responsibility for rescues that are legally seized will ONLY be transferred to properly licensed facilities. That is just a reality. So, if you want to help out, but don't want to go through all the legalities of becoming licensed/registered, etc for yourself, why not contact one of our ALREADY legal and established rescue homes and discuss becoming a legal agent of their rescue home? I know that I am open to taking on agents, and have already done so.


A few things need to happen in this community:
1) Standards for rescue work must be set. Karen and Eddie, I would love to talk with you both about this more.

2) We MUST begin to follow those standards, one of which must include following the law.

3) We MUST use as our mentors those organizations who ALREADY understand the law and the standards set for rescue work outside of this community. It is not enough to consult other "established and experienced" rescuers if they are not, themselves, already involved in this process. It is helpful, but you just slow your own progress. If someone is not ALREADY legal and following a set of written standards, then relying on them for advice could leave you having to take 3 steps back again and again later on down the road. This is not because they don't love gliders or understand the process, but it is because they do not have the experience to properly guide you along your journey - there may be things they have never considered or encountered.
If you are not comfortable with your choices within this community, look outside of the glider community for this type of mentoring from a qualified organization or individual. YES, we should learn from the experience and mistakes of those that have gone before us. No sense continuing to repeat things over and over again if we can learn from someone else and do better from the "giddy-up".

The rescue situation in this community is very concerning to me. Has been for a long time. It has not stopped me from being part of the community, from taking the beatings that I have taken for speaking my mind on this issue, from taking in, rehabilitating and re-homing many lovely gliders, or from becoming one of our legally registered rescue homes.


clap clap

I have to agree with every thing that Val just stated. And we need to remember, not everyone is going to agree with the Legal and Proper way of doing rescue, sometimes the legal rescues will even be put down as Val has been done many times, because in a Legal aspect, their hands are tied. Let me try to give an example...

Lets say Jane Doe can no longer care for her gliders at this time due to the economy, so she talks with Marsha and Marsha agrees to take them in. Marsha realizes that she may have gotten in over her head and reaches out for help. She then says she received these gliders from someone she considers she *rescued* them from. Everyone wants to jump in to help (just the kind of people we are)but Jane never signed any papers stated she was relinquishing these gliders to Marsha. So Terry hears that Marsha needs help with gliders and offers to lend a helping hand in a financial manner. Since Terry is known to do rescue work everyone supports her.
The gliders are taken in for wellness checks and all the males are neutered.

Two months later Jane contacts Marsha and says she is back on her feet and would like her gliders back. Jane becomes LIVID when she finds out the males were neutered. It has ruined her business as she was a breeder. Marsha knew she was a breeder as did Terry. Terry *THOUGHT* that Jane had released them to Marsha, and although she asked for papers showing Jane had released them, in the end she just took Marshas word for it, after all, these males really needed to be neutered.

Jane decides she is going to take legal action against Marsha for making this decision and then she hears that Terry was involved as well, so she adds her name and organization to the suit.

The judge hears the case and asks Terry if she was aware that these gliders were just in the care of Marsha, when Terry states I thought they were released, the judge is going to ask if she saw any legal paperwork releasing them to Marsha. Terry has to say no.

The judge is then going to ask Jane what her losses are. Jane will come up with a number as to how many joeys she THINKS within reason those gliders COULD HAVE produced for her now and the years to come and take the figure of the cost of each joey that she could get TODAY for each one. THAT is the cost, along with court costs, that Jane could then be granted. This money will NOT only have to come from Marsha, but also from the Terry and her Organization.

Legal steps HAVE to be taken. YES, it IS going to cost money, time and a LOT of headaches in paperwork and aggravation in not being able to help every case, but in the end it WILL benefit the whole community and gliders.

So although we ALL want to help, proper steps HAVE to be taken. Like Val said if you dont want to go through all the steps, become an agent to an organization that already has. There ARE legal ways to help.

Eddie and Karen, thank you for allowing this to stay here. It IS something that NEEDS to be discussed, learned and understood.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb] #904229
02/08/10 05:03 PM
02/08/10 05:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
For informaton purposes for those of us wanting to know what a 501c3 is:
501(c)(3) exemptions apply to corporations, and any community chest, fund, or foundation, organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, testing for public safety, literary, educational purposes, to foster national or international amateur sports competition, promote the arts, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.

Another provision, 26 U.S.C. 170, provides a deduction, for federal income tax purposes, for some donors who make charitable contributions to most types of 501(c)(3) organizations, among others. Regulations specify which such deductions must be verifiable in order to be allowed (e.g., receipts for donations over $250). Due to the tax deductions associated with donations, loss of 501(c)(3) status can be highly challenging to a charity's continued operation, as many foundations and corporate matching programs will not grant funds to a charity without such status, and individual donors often will not consider making a donation to such a charity due to the unavailability of the deduction.

Testing for public safety is described under section 509(a)(4) of the code which makes the organization a public charity and not a private foundation,[9] but contributions to 509(a)(4) organizations are not deductible by the donor for federal income, estate, or gift tax purposes.

The two exempt classifications of 501(c)(3) organizations are as follows:

A public charity, identified by the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) as "not a private foundation," normally receives a substantial part of its income, directly or indirectly, from the general public or from the government. The public support must be fairly broad, not limited to a few individuals or families. Public charities are defined in the Internal Revenue Code under sections 509(a)(1) through 509(a)(4).

A private foundation, sometimes called a non-operating foundation, receives most of its income from investments and endowments. This income is used to make grants to other organizations, rather than being dispersed directly for charitable activities. Private foundations are defined in the Internal Revenue Code under section 509(a) as 501(c)(3) organizations which do not qualify as public charities.

Obtaining status
Most organizations acquire 501(c)(3) tax exemption by filing IRS Form 1023. The form must be accompanied by a $750 filing fee if the gross receipts for the organization are expected to average $10,000 or more.[11] If gross receipts are expected to average less than $10,000, the filing fee is reduced to $300.[11] There are some classes of organizations that automatically are treated as tax exempt under 501(c)(3), without the need to file Form 1023:

Churches, their integrated auxiliaries, and conventions or associations of churches
Organizations that are not private foundations and that have gross receipts that normally are not more than than $5,000

On January 3, 2010, these fees were increased. After that date, the filing fee will be "$850 for organizations whose gross receipts exceed $10,000 annually over a 4-year period". "$400 for organizations whose gross receipts are $10,000 or less annually over a 4-year period".

The IRS also expects to release a software tool called Cyber Assistant in 2010, which will assist with the preparation of the application for tax exemption. Once Cyber Assistant becomes available, the user fee structure will change again. The fees will then be $200 for all organizations (regardless of size) that file using Cyber Assistant. Organizations that do not use Cyber Assistant (regardless of size) will pay a user fee of $850.

Political activity
Section 501(c)(3) organizations are subject to limits or absolute prohibitions on engaging in political activities.

Elections
Organizations described in section 501(c)(3) are prohibited from conducting political campaign activities to intervene in elections to public office. The Internal Revenue Service website elaborates upon this prohibition as follows:

"Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes.

"Certain activities or expenditures may not be prohibited depending on the facts and circumstances. For example, certain voter education activities (including presenting public forums and publishing voter education guides) conducted in a non-partisan manner do not constitute prohibited political campaign activity. In addition, other activities intended to encourage people to participate in the electoral process, such as voter registration and get-out-the-vote drives, would not be prohibited political campaign activity if conducted in a non-partisan manner.

"On the other hand, voter education or registration activities with evidence of bias that (a) would favor one candidate over another; (b) oppose a candidate in some manner; or (c) have the effect of favoring a candidate or group of candidates, will constitute prohibited participation or intervention.

"The Internal Revenue Service provides resources to exempt organizations and the public to help them understand the prohibition. As part of its examination program, the IRS also monitors whether organizations are complying with the prohibition."

Lobbying
In contrast to the absolute prohibition on political campaign interventions by all section 501(c)(3) organizations, public charities (but not private foundations) are permitted to conduct a limited amount of lobbying to influence legislation. Although the law states that "no substantial part" of a public charity's activities may be devoted to lobbying, charities with very large budgets may lawfully expend a million dollars (under the "expenditure" test) or more (under the "substantial part" test) per year on lobbying.

Last edited by Tish84; 02/08/10 05:09 PM.

TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #904235
02/08/10 05:17 PM
02/08/10 05:17 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
With the price going down to $200 this year, there shouldn't be any excuse for those rescuing full time or most of the time to not be 5013c certified.

That's a big plus for Rescue work.

Last edited by Tish84; 02/08/10 05:19 PM.

TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #904247
02/08/10 05:56 PM
02/08/10 05:56 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
It is a plus, Tish. Unfortunately, the money is not the thing stopping most people - the legal regulations and accountability are the thing that so many do not wish to be held to.

If it were only about money, SO many would have already gone through the process.

Again, I am impressed with the great points made so far in this thread. Can't wait to read more!


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Tish84] #904277
02/08/10 07:07 PM
02/08/10 07:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: Tish84
With the price going down to $200 this year, there shouldn't be any excuse for those rescuing full time or most of the time to not be 5013c certified.

That's a big plus for Rescue work.


Me personally and I'm sure for others- it's not about the money of becoming 501c/non-profit- it's about the requirements for getting such an organization started.


ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: jacknsally] #904278
02/08/10 07:14 PM
02/08/10 07:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
For me, it has been about the money. I hope that the price does go down. Even $200 is a LOT of money for me these days but I'm sure I can get it somehow.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #904279
02/08/10 07:18 PM
02/08/10 07:18 PM

G
glidernanny
Unregistered
glidernanny
Unregistered
G



Been reading a bit in this book and find it very informative for myself and hope posting a book title isn't against the rules. I'm also very open to any other information anyone would be willing to share that is not written in a way to baffle and confuse a regular gal with very little legal education.

Nonprofit Kit for Dummies

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #904348
02/08/10 09:25 PM
02/08/10 09:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79

Just like the raffle stuff, and breeders, rescues should have standards and be as legal as possible.


EXACTLY!

I recently made a post about this very thing on The Sweet Spot. I see disaster coming for our community rescue process if we don't make changes. Some of us began the process of making changes years ago, but you know how that goes and how things get perceived and so on and so on.

Peggy - I am here, but have very little time to respond. I will look up and copy and paste my definition of a "rescue" as it applies to Kingdom Kritters soon.

There have been many great points made in this thread so far, and I really hope that they continue.

One thing that I hear very often is that many of our rescue homes/rescuers don't want to go through the trouble to be licensed, registered, 501c3, whatever because of the cost, the time it takes to do so and the regulations by both state and federal governing bodies that must be followed once you do.
First, I say - why not? If helping with rescues is something you want to do, then there are options. BUT, if you feel called to be a RESCUE HOME, then you must be concerned about just more than your heart. Being a RESCUE HOME is not just about taking in a glider and finding them a new home and caring for them while they are with you. That is the FUN part of rescue work, but is not at all everything that is required. Why would anyone jeopardize their own gliders, their family, their finances and their home by disregarding the law while posting all over the internet that they are a RESCUER/RESCUE HOME and able to take in both gliders and donations (monetary or material)? I do not understand that at all.

The reality is that most of us that ARE either registered, 501c3, licensed, or appointed as agents of agencies that are (or ALL of the above) understand that rescue work is far more work, paperwork and accountability than one would think.

There is room for ALL levels of rescue work in this community. BUT, the legal responsibility for rescues that are legally seized will ONLY be transferred to properly licensed facilities. That is just a reality. So, if you want to help out, but don't want to go through all the legalities of becoming licensed/registered, etc for yourself, why not contact one of our ALREADY legal and established rescue homes and discuss becoming a legal agent of their rescue home? I know that I am open to taking on agents, and have already done so.


A few things need to happen in this community:
1) Standards for rescue work must be set. Karen and Eddie, I would love to talk with you both about this more.

2) We MUST begin to follow those standards, one of which must include following the law.

3) We MUST use as our mentors those organizations who ALREADY understand the law and the standards set for rescue work outside of this community. It is not enough to consult other "established and experienced" rescuers if they are not, themselves, already involved in this process. It is helpful, but you just slow your own progress. If someone is not ALREADY legal and following a set of written standards, then relying on them for advice could leave you having to take 3 steps back again and again later on down the road. This is not because they don't love gliders or understand the process, but it is because they do not have the experience to properly guide you along your journey - there may be things they have never considered or encountered.
If you are not comfortable with your choices within this community, look outside of the glider community for this type of mentoring from a qualified organization or individual. YES, we should learn from the experience and mistakes of those that have gone before us. No sense continuing to repeat things over and over again if we can learn from someone else and do better from the "giddy-up".

The rescue situation in this community is very concerning to me. Has been for a long time. It has not stopped me from being part of the community, from taking the beatings that I have taken for speaking my mind on this issue, from taking in, rehabilitating and re-homing many lovely gliders, or from becoming one of our legally registered rescue homes.


Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
1) Standards for rescue work must be set. Karen and Eddie, I would love to talk with you both about this more.


We are here, just let us know when wink I think yes standards do need to be set, but dont feel it will be welcomed by some "existing" rescue homes. My response to that is oh well, we can make the change with or without them!! What I really and truly think the community needs is for a legit, legal rescue site/forum established. One that knows the ins and outs of the laws, one that has their 501, one that will allow homes who they checkout work as an agent under their 501 umbrella if need be.

If a legit and legal site like this does happen, then things will be taken more seriously by vets, by the legal system and who knows can possibly work to try and get grants & funding! Ive been wanting to see this happen for years, but sadly it hasnt.

Over the years we have seen some well known rescue homes collapse, crumble, and still around for many disturbing & selfish(on the rescue homes part) reasons. That needs to stop and focus back on what we can do for the gliders, not what they can do for us!


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #904353
02/08/10 09:32 PM
02/08/10 09:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
We are here, just let us know when wink I think yes standards do need to be set, but dont feel it will be welcomed by some "existing" rescue homes. My response to that is oh well, we can make the change with or without them!! What I really and truly think the community needs is for a legit, legal rescue site/forum established. One that knows the ins and outs of the laws, one that has their 501, one that will allow homes who they checkout work as an agent under their 501 umbrella if need be.

If a legit and legal site like this does happen, then things will be taken more seriously by vets, by the legal system and who knows can possibly work to try and get grants & funding! Ive been wanting to see this happen for years, but sadly it hasnt.

Over the years we have seen some well known rescue homes collapse, crumble, and still around for many disturbing & selfish(on the rescue homes part) reasons. That needs to stop and focus back on what we can do for the gliders, not what they can do for us!


clap clap


if it is done LEGALLY a LOT more doors will open to help.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb] #904366
02/08/10 09:58 PM
02/08/10 09:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Thank you so much for making this post. For the first time I was, in a round about way, involved in a rescue. I was very upset with how this particular organization handled a rescue - they placed an intact male in a home that they told was a female joey. (Many issues there!)

Standards, in my opinion, are a necessity. Not meaning to be offensive to anyone that does the occasional rescue, but I still think standards are needed, and obviously desired in this community.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: GliderNursery] #904435
02/08/10 11:48 PM
02/08/10 11:48 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis
USMom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
After reading through this, I have several points to what's been said already, and some thoughts of my own.

A non-profit, whether 501 c-3 or simply state registered, is required to have a board of directors. A vet can be brought into the process there, if the rescue so chooses. Just randomly bringing a vet in does nothing.

Re-homing gliders is not rescue work, so talking about that is pointless. What is being discussed here is rescue work. Working as an organization, bringing in gliders, working with them, getting medical care for them, vetting new homes, etc... This includes recieving donations, solicited or not.

Alden, this wasn't about you, but you bring up a good point. This is, for the most part, a helpful and loving community. And most people won't turn someone in. But, some will, and they have. So, being 100% legal thwarts this.

Those things being said, becoming legal and gaining non-profit status opens a lot of doors. There are grants that can be applied for, research is available, so much becomes available. It is a win all the way around. And, as has been pointed out, being not legal is a lose for the gliders. If this had been a glider mill, most of the gliders would have had to be euthanized. Being legal won't change that eventuality overnight, but it will help mitigate it.

I am very interested in what the rest of the community has to add here. I think we are a bunch of smart cookies, and can get to where we need to be, in order to fully defeat the mills, and protect our babies. But, we have to work hard, and together for a common purpose. This is step one.

Good job, Anita, for opening the door. hug2


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: josefine] #904947
02/10/10 08:20 AM
02/10/10 08:20 AM

T
travhops
Unregistered
travhops
Unregistered
T



What about Glider Rescues in conjunction with the SPCA. They do have the legal right to rescue animals. They also have access to vets. Perhaps GC can work with them on education about gliders as it looks as if in the near future there could be some massive rescues needed. I'm in Canada where gliders are relatively rare but have let the SPCA know if they rescue gliders I will foster them until proper homes can be found. Gliders, I feel, are NOT something that should be sold through a pet shop. They're an animal that requires long term commitment and a lot of prior education on how to properly care for them. No animal, and especially a glider, should be an impulse buy.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ] #904949
02/10/10 08:44 AM
02/10/10 08:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict
LabNGliderMom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
That is a good point- because most SPCA and Humane Societies are NOT equipped to handle sugar glider care and therefore, if a rescue organization is not on their "Call in case of" list, sadly, the ones dropped at these plcaes are often euthanized.

Those who ARE rescues should determine the range they and tehir agents are able to travel in the event of an emergency "came and get these critters" call from an SPCS or Humane Society, and then take the time to track down the ones within their driving radius and get to know them and offer their help in the event that a gldier or gliders are surrendered there.

JMHO, of course...


Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: LabNGliderMom] #904961
02/10/10 10:15 AM
02/10/10 10:15 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
The SPCA here in Texas will not place animals with an outside rescue home unless the rescue home is also 501c3. The Humane Society will, though. So, be sure you are checking out those laws.

It never hurts to get information into the hands of such organizations.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #904989
02/10/10 11:01 AM
02/10/10 11:01 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Originally Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom
The SPCA here in Texas will not place animals with an outside rescue home unless the rescue home is also 501c3. The Humane Society will, though. So, be sure you are checking out those laws.

It never hurts to get information into the hands of such organizations.


They won't here. They will only release the animals to a licensed org. We don't have an SPCA only a humane society and they will only release exotic and wild animals to legitimate,licensed rescues. Like some people said though, people can help the licensed rescues with out having a license them-selfs.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #905129
02/10/10 03:32 PM
02/10/10 03:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I read this at 2 am this morning and slept on it. There are many areas we need work. I moved a lot of gliders from A to B. I never had an escape but I did have an injury. We need to make sure people moving these animals for the groups are covered too. Loss, death, injury. How will those be handled.

I was going to move Chewy (SM'er but turned out not to be) from MI to TN and had a home lined up for him but fell for him and he is still here. The potential new owner was ok with me keeping him. These types of things do need to be addressed legally though.


If something happens to a glider or volunteer who will be responsible? What if a donor says they were stolen from, or attacked? We never really used to think about these things but the world is a changing.....


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #905130
02/10/10 03:36 PM
02/10/10 03:36 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
You are correct Cyndie, there are more laws made protecting bad people then there are the ones who do good, so the more we do this the right way the better it will be.

Yes the world is changing and so must we. We cannot do the same things we have done in the past, especially with the growing popularity of sugar gliders.


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #905392
02/10/10 11:20 PM
02/10/10 11:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 591
Delaware
PintoLady09 Offline
Glider Lover
PintoLady09  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 591
Delaware
First, is there a 501 c-3 rescue for gliders in the states?

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
You are correct Cyndie, there are more laws made protecting bad people then there are the ones who do good, so the more we do this the right way the better it will be.

Yes the world is changing and so must we. We cannot do the same things we have done in the past, especially with the growing popularity of sugar gliders.


Sugar gliders are growing like a wild fire... I agree! I think something really should be done. Maybe even think outside the box, gotta find someway. Maybe even find volunteers in different parts of the country to be part of one BIG rescue group... would there have to be seperate 501 c-3 applications filed if they were all part of the same? It wouldn't be easy, but that way one standard could be set, one name could be looked up and referanced all over the place.

Just an idea...


Trina

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: PintoLady09] #905395
02/10/10 11:27 PM
02/10/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: PintoLady09


Sugar gliders are growing like a wild fire... I agree! I think something really should be done. Maybe even think outside the box, gotta find someway. Maybe even find volunteers in different parts of the country to be part of one BIG rescue group... would there have to be seperate 501 c-3 applications filed if they were all part of the same? It wouldn't be easy, but that way one standard could be set, one name could be looked up and referanced all over the place.

Just an idea...



I think this is how Val - JackieChansMom is set up with her rescue, you can become her agent.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: GliderNursery] #905413
02/11/10 12:11 AM
02/11/10 12:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
I think this is how Val - JackieChansMom is set up with her rescue, you can become her agent.


Does Val have her 501 yet? I thought it was still in the works?


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #905438
02/11/10 12:47 AM
02/11/10 12:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Val's is still pending. The Southeast Sugar Gliders in FL just announced they are now a 501c, Lucky Glider Rescue in NV is also 501c & SuggieSavers in CO is also 501c.


ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: jacknsally] #905580
02/11/10 10:57 AM
02/11/10 10:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 591
Delaware
PintoLady09 Offline
Glider Lover
PintoLady09  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 591
Delaware
I would love to be an agent. I should probably wait until I have a whole house though. I live in DE and there isn't much in the way for gliders here. Finding a good vet is hard enough. There just isn't the experience here and that includes me. At this point I wouldn't know what to do if a glider with special needs came my way except see the vet and come to this community. Considering I just purchased my first 3 back in January.

Don't get me wrong, if a glider needed rescue here, I wouldn't turn it down! I try to help all people with their gliders that I come across. Even if it's to get them off a bad diet or something.

I guess if a glider did come my way, and a 501 was required, it wouldn't hurt to have it just in case... My spca around here are sticklers and don't think they would just hand out gliders without the 501-c... Infact, they are just as quick to euthanize anything they don't know anything about! I hate them by the way!


Trina

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: PintoLady09] #906412
02/13/10 09:20 AM
02/13/10 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline OP
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
I'm sorry that I got side tracked and I didn't get back to this.

I might be wrong but I don't think everyone needs to be 501c3. I think just the major orgs need to be. And to me it is about more than just being legal. To me it is about those who are experienced mentoring those who are just beginning so that the newby will know what the pit falls are. Unfortunately, we often see an "I'm gonna do it and no one can tell me anything" attitude from the newby until the fall hard a time or two. But yes, being legal should open doors that are not open now.

In the past, we have seen railroads set up and one member of the railroad decide, without approval, to keep them. We have seen colored gliders kept while grays are passed on. We have seen sick or hurt gliders not get medical care for weeks or months. We have seen rescuers that didn't keep records or even have vet checks. We have seen rescues that also breed. We have seen rescuers get in over their head and need to be rescued from. We have seen rescues that don't even know how many or what sex is in some cages. And occasionally we have seen people who just saw the attaboys who didn't realize how much work went with it.

Don't get me wrong. I don't want to slam rescues. Most of the people were good people with big hearts who had no idea of what is involved in running a rescue operation.

And like many have said here, how long before we see gliders being euthanized in huge numbers? It is coming and could be already happening. That is the reality of having more animals in a system than available homes.

And my opinion is that these legal resue orgs should work hand in hand with the mill breeders Project. Reducing the numbers entering the system is the only way to slow down the numbers entering rescues. JMO


Anita Rae
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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy] #906420
02/13/10 09:54 AM
02/13/10 09:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
...I might be wrong but I don't think everyone needs to be 501c3. I think just the major orgs need to be.

I agree, only a few really need to go that route, then they need to train and work with others under them to accomplish a large chain of rescuers, so to speak. A large network, it could be so productive. And working under the 501s would ensure things being done properly, including vet checks, record-keeping, etc.


Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
...In the past, we have seen railroads set up and one member of the railroad decide, without approval, to keep them. We have seen colored gliders kept while grays are passed on. We have seen sick or hurt gliders not get medical care for weeks or months. We have seen rescuers that didn't keep records or even have vet checks. We have seen rescues that also breed. We have seen rescuers get in over their head and need to be rescued from. We have seen rescues that don't even know how many or what sex is in some cages. And occasionally we have seen people who just saw the attaboys who didn't realize how much work went with it.


That is just sad! With a community as great as this is, with hearts as big as we all have, it just amazes me that this type of thing can happen. I guess I like living in my own little world, but reality does happen.

Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
And occasionally we have seen people who just saw the attaboys who didn't realize how much work went with it.

Doing any of this type of work should never be about the attaboys. If we break our arms patting ourselves on the back, we get nowhere in the end. Anyone involved in any organization needs to understand up front the hard work, and sometimes heartache, that comes along with it (as I'm sure every rescue doesn't end up with a happy ending). But again, that is where the mentoring will come in.

So, what's the first, or next step to get this moving forward?


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: GliderNursery] #906590
02/13/10 05:18 PM
02/13/10 05:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,860
LittleRock, AR USA
Oh Anita, where to even start. You have no idea how glad Eddie and I are that you started this thread or how long over due it is. Thank you so much.

Eddie and I have been talking for a long time about wanting to take GliderCENTRAL in a new direction where Rescues/Rescuers are concerned but when we see no positive change within the community, how can we do that?

Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
...In the past, we have seen railroads set up and one member of the railroad decide, without approval, to keep them. We have seen colored gliders kept while grays are passed on. We have seen sick or hurt gliders not get medical care for weeks or months. We have seen rescuers that didn't keep records or even have vet checks. We have seen rescues that also breed. We have seen rescuers get in over their head and need to be rescued from. We have seen rescues that don't even know how many or what sex is in some cages. And occasionally we have seen people who just saw the attaboys who didn't realize how much work went with it.


Some, if not all, of these things are still happening. Donations do not get where they were intended. Monetary donations are asked to be sent to a middle party rather than directly to the recipient. Why are things like this happening.

I saw a post on another board asking why people were not posting about these situations with specifics. We all know the answer to that question unless we've only been in the glider community for about ten minutes.

It depends on who it is doing the rescuing. Plain and simple. The old double standard is alive and certainly well ensconced in the glider community.

Unless and until the rescuers come together and agree to abide by a set of standards any animal is entitled to, nothing is going to change.

The double standard is also going to have to change by not keeping silent when there is proof. There should never be profit in rescuing any animal regardless of what kind it is.



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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #906610
02/13/10 05:56 PM
02/13/10 05:56 PM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Quote:
Some, if not all, of these things are still happening. Donations do not get where they were intended. Monetary donations are asked to be sent to a middle party rather than directly to the recipient. Why are things like this happening.


Don't have an answer as to why this is still happening, however the solution to the monetary donations is an easy fix. Any monies for rescues should be paid DIRECTLY to the vet, no monies should you paid to an individual UNLESS they are a 501c3.

Quote:
I saw a post on another board asking why people were not posting about these situations with specifics. We all know the answer to that question unless we've only been in the glider community for about ten minutes.


We have to get past this "Good ole boy" politics in the glider community, and also realize that the ground is even here, there is no one above or below any others. We've come along away in just a few short years, we've learned alot about gliders and the excuses of "this is way it's always been done," doesn't fly anymore.

Quote:
Unless and until the rescuers come together and agree to abide by a set of standards any animal is entitled to, nothing is going to change.


The breeders have unwritten rules as to what constitutes a "reputable breeder," and most people look for that when considering purchasing a glider. Why can't rescues have a code of ethics? There are a few of us that have those already, we've read them and agreed to them and most importantly, abide by them. Maybe this is something that we can make public for all to see as well as who is in agreed to uphold those ethics. This would go a long way in helping a person decide should they want to help a so called rescue or rescue home. And just like breeders, if the rescue is out of compliance with those ethics or fails to uphold them, with proof they too can be place on a beware list. Just a thought.

Quote:
The double standard is also going to have to change by not keeping silent when there is proof. There should never be profit in rescuing any animal regardless of what kind it is.


I agree with this statement 110%, and my belief on this is, if you know something like the above and you choose NOT to speak out about it, you are just as guilty as the person who committed the offense.

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