IMVHO




I’m of agreement that Salmonella is present in the wild; however I disagree that it is in the numbers we currently see on OUR store bought eggs due to the unsanitary way our chickens are kept and handled. How much Salmonella is needed to make a human ill? What about a glider? This is what I ask myself.

Salmonella isn't something that is “treated” for in our poultry (it’s very difficult to treat for period, even after you contract Salmonella poisoning, the proper name eludes me at the moment) so it runs rampant amongst the eggs we consume every day. However most of us cook them before consuming.

I just don’t think it’s the best idea to KNOWINGLY allow our gliders to consume something we don’t know enough about. Not only is there risk when you crack the egg from Salmonella but there are nasties that live within the yolk... Most animals can carry Salmonella in their intestines, so I don’t think it’s a matter of organic or other species of bird eggs either.

It’s just a big ?? at this point.

If you do offer your glider(s) raw chicken eggs, could you let me know the outcome?

Another problem with Salmonella is it is becoming more resistant to antibiotics. If we isolate it from someone's stool, we only report out Ampicillin, Bactrim, and Cipro or Levoquin. A few years ago any of these could be used. Now it is not unusual to see Salmonella that is resistant to Ampicillin and Bactrim. It just isn't worth it to me. I'm such a phobic I change spoons when I cook eggs. One for the raw egg and another for serving up the cooked egg. I do the same with ground meat when I cook for the non glider family.

It gives me the goosebumps thinking about it, I do the same thing with eggs, ground beef, and raw chicken!

I think it is necessary to cook chicken eggs to kill out the bacteria that is on the shell if nothing else. The egg and the poo come out the same hole! They definetely need cooked for sterilization!

Wandaf

Well, on the Marsupial Society of Australia site, they talk about a formula that they make for babies, it is water, cream, honey and egg yolk (raw) and probably something else, too. But, they are feeding it on purpose.

Here is what they have: "42 parts of water to 7 parts of tinned full cream evapourated milk, two teaspoons full of egg yolk and a quarter of a teaspoon of honey"

I have wondered about the raw eggs myself. If I ever do it, I'd get fresh eggs (from a chicken, not a store) and just crack the shell a bit and see what happens. I mean, if you're gonna do raw eggs, let them have some fun with it!

Thats what I was thinking Shawna. I probably wouldnt do store bought eggs. Not enough assurance that they would be safe. But I live on a farm and it wouldnt be nothing to get a couple chickens (or even bante's for those small eggs)and raise them myself. Or I could just go over to my mothers and steal hers. She might get a little upset if I stole her quail eggs. Oh well, for my babies it would be worth it. But I am waiting for more definate answers if it would be safe. I love all the feedback we've been getting on this subject.

I cultured Eggland's Best egg shells and egg yolks. Four of each were cultured. No bacteria grew out from any of the cultures. I was shocked. I figured they would be loaded with intestinal flora and I would have to isolate for Salmonella. I am going to try this again using store brand eggs.

Thank you! That is awesome that you are doing this. I cant wait for the results for the next culture.

See, I think the salmonella comes from us. We handle the eggs, crack them, then close the container with our eggy hands and put it back in the fridge. The salmonella grows on the container, then we use our hands on the eggy part of the container, grab an egg, crack it, then...Anyway, I would be willing to try it, but only on a night before I'm gonna clean the cage, imagine that mess!!!

Salmonella is only found in the feces of animals/humans that carry the bacteria. (Cats are often carriers without symptoms.)

With eggs, the feces is on the shell. If the bird is a carrier, the egg shell will have bacteria. Because of the conditions in egg farms - literally thousands of chickens in very small areas - it is difficult to find store bought eggs that DON'T have the bacteria on them. (Standard washing does not get rid of it.) And the sick chicken's eggs are sold until the animal stops laying - then it is slaughtered for food!

When you crack an egg, it is unavoidable that it touches the shell. High temperature will kill the bacteria - not viruses, but it does kill bacteria.

Now, some animals are not as susceptible to food borne illness like this. Carnivores, like dogs, have short digestive tracts and tend to pass the bacteria before it can migrate to the liver and reproduce - causing health problems. Cats are actual carriers. But gliders are not strictly carnivores (nor are people.) The digestive tract is long enough for them to digest the foods they eat - plants, and even nectar. So, they are susceptible to this bacteria.

A lot of athletes and body builders drink protien shakes with raw eggs in them and have for years. I think the difference is that people used to get fresh eggs from local farmers...When I was first married when had a milk, egg, cheese delivery man. It was wonderful! I had remembered how my mother in law had told me about getting fresh mile and how great it was! We had eggs, cheese and milk delivered twice a week. Now I am not sure you can find that service. Instead we use the convience of the major stores like wal mart. I would not give something to my suggies that I questioned and since I no longer have a way of having fresh eggs delivered I won't offer them uncooked eggs. Just my opinion!

Okay, I bought some of the egglands best pasteurized eggs today. Boy, are they expensive! Anyway, I am thinking of letting Biscuit try one. He is my most adventurous glider. He is also the one I spend the most time with, so, if he does get sick, I would know pretty quickly. I haven't committed 100% to it yet, though. What do y'all think? I feel better after hearing about the cultures.

The cultures did sound promising. Let us know how he likes it. If you do decide to give it to him. Just out of curiosity, how much were a dozen eggs?

Almost $3. About $1.50 more than a regular dozen. It does say, inside the lid, that with their eggs it is safe to eat the raw cookie dough, so I would assume they would take liability if one were to be sick with salmonella from their eggs, which also makes me feel better. Still not 100% there, about 90%.

I guess my only thing is that if you are making scrambled eggs using Teflon.. that is a problem anyways. If you heat the pan hotter than 327 degrees is melts, getting into your food and is a known cause for some cancers (it can also flake if you use metal utensils and scrape it off). You aren't supposed to cook using it around birds either, which is supposedly the cause of death of many kitchen birds' deaths.

Supposedly there is just something in the Teflon that is hazardous (I probably should know but I don't) but Dupont is currently doing research on trying to get the same properties but making it not harmful to people. They are expecting it to be out in the next 5-10 years.

I bought the cheapest eggs I could find today at Target. I'll set up the cultures tomorrow and then it will take a couple of days.

Ok, wow, I didn't know about the Teflon. That's definitely something to consider.

Whereas I'm perfectly happy to add raw eggs to the smoothies I make myself, and often eat eggs over-easy, I only buy organic eggs. Yes they're expensive, but I buy organic chicken and beef too because I'm horrified by our meat and poultry industries and what they put into our food. *shudders*

Sooooo, what about organic eggs? I haven't read any studies about the statistic incidence of salmonella found in organic vs. regular eggs. What do you all think?

Also, in stead of scrambling, do you think poaching the eggs is an OK idea? I have an egg poacher, but I didn't know if there was a specific need to scamble the eggs - or if cooking them in any way possible is the goal.

I am very curious as to what the cultures will reveal....

I know some people are very anti-microwave, but I nuke mine.. 1 egg takes about a minute. scramble it in a dish, cover w/ waxed paper and cook on high for 30 seconds. stir/whisk well and put it back in, 15 sec. at a time (stirring between) until it's almost, but not quite, done through. stir/whisk again and let it sit for a bit. They're nicer - and probably have more nutrients left - if you don't overcook them, so really watch. the edges will get done first but if you break up the done stuff and mix it back into the runny stuff it'll cook more evenly.

I think part of the reason you cook the eggs and is because it sits in the cage all night. In the wild the animal is alive right before the suggie eats it. I would say the longer the food sits there raw, it causes the salmonella to spread faster, not to mention it spoils.

So far the cultures are negative for Salmonella. I'm off tomorrow and will check them again on Friday. If Salmonella does grow, it will be in very small quantity. Once again, I'm shocked. You should see how I use hand sanitizer after touching egg cartons at the store!

Thank you again Janet for doing this test. It has been VERY helpful.

You're welcome! My coworkers found it interesting,too. I won't go back to eating raw cookie dough, but it does make me feel better about handling raw eggs.

I'm sure it has made alot of people feel better about it. I know I do.

The cultures are finished. They were negative for Salmonella. The egg shells did not grow any bacteria. The egg yolk grew a small amount of a bacteria found in soil. It also grew one colony of a bacteria found in human intestines.

I don't know if these results are representative of what would grow out if many different brands of eggs were cultured.

Janet, Thanks for taking the time to do this for all of us. I am still cooking my eggs just to be safe.

Vonny, you took the words right out of my mouth. Exactly. If you decide to give raw eggs as a treat or something, it has to be supervised and removed. Otherwise, God knows what would grow in it after a few hours. Our babies aren't the best aimers at pooing and peeing.

WOW! - I still love reading and learning from this thread.

My mom breeds and sells ALOT of poultry and fowl birds..... So I'm thinking to get a few quail from her and start using those tiny eggs as a treat for my gliders. I really think that they would enjoy those and it would be a great source for a treat chock full of protein.

I would like your feedback on this idea before I go ahead and start doing it. So what do you all think?

I understand the problem with larger eggs and them being left in the cage for any length of time....Bacterial growth and all that. But the smaller/tiny ones that would be gone with in minutes?