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PML #128325
08/04/06 10:59 PM
08/04/06 10:59 PM

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Okay so I've read what I could.. but there's still holes in my brain, lol.

Who feeds it and can shed some exerienced based input on it for me? tounge

If it goes in a bowl to freeze, can you scoop it out easily? It doesn't freeze block solid, right?

Someone mentioned it thaws totally liquid. Won't this go.. everywhere? Into everything else?

Do they really eat and KEEP eating it long after the new wears off? Because that's why I dont feed BML after four years.. They LOVE the bml.. for... a week.. but then every bit of it sits, no matter how enticing I make it, lol.. So I don't want it sitting, it does them no good.

If it DOES sit, can I sprinkle WHS on the foods they DO like instead? And what else is missing that I would need to provide in other forms from there?

Wheeee.. there's more, but I am sure those questions are already going to annoy someone to sit and type out, so I'll behave and wait, lol. tounge ThankYou to anyone who sheds a little light on this newness for me. heart Ame...

Re: PML [Re: ] #128326
08/04/06 11:03 PM
08/04/06 11:03 PM

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I've been here at my computer for hours now reading on PML. You've sparked my interest and I think I'm going to start feeding this too. I did read that it is easy to scoop, kinda like ice cream!! I'm interested in hearing from those who use it also. Pockets seems to have a wealth of info on gliders and their diets!!

Re: PML [Re: ] #128327
08/04/06 11:11 PM
08/04/06 11:11 PM

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Yes, it can be scooped out just like ice cream. It does not freeze solid at all and like you read, once thawed it is like a thick liquid.

I feed the PML mix in a seperate dish, so no worries about it getting on other foods.

I have not had any problems with my two not liking it. They clean it up most nights and if they don't there is only ever a small amount left over. I don't have to worry about inticing them to eat it. I have never read of someone having trouble getting their gliders to eat it.

tounge OK next round of question 's lol

Re: PML [Re: ] #128328
08/04/06 11:29 PM
08/04/06 11:29 PM
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you should use xtra protein with it alone its not enough. i use it one one of my gliders what i do is mix it in with baby food turkey or chicken or egg. about 1/4 tsp sometimes an eight tsp in the baby food and serve with fruit and veggies no other supplement needer but i also give yogurt to that glider daily for xtra calcium for the past yr shes been on this. the others are on bml

Re: PML [Re: ] #128329
08/04/06 11:30 PM
08/04/06 11:30 PM

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roflmao Yay.. someone not annoyed by typing..

Well I'm glad my quest is helping others re think what they're doing too.. at least I'm not alone in this expedition..

Okay new questions.. Hhmmm..

did you notice any changes in your gliders at all? Physical (coat, etc) or activity increase?

Do you feed it early, or all their dinner at once, and do they still eat all of their PML if you give them their mealies at the same time? lol.

Cause sometimes I swear Sophie only bothers getting out of bed at all for the mealies.

The mix sounds like.. nothin much really, compared to all the stuff in BML, so is all the necessary vitamins (not just protein) actually in the WHPS too?

What else do you feed with it? Anything that are MUST haves, or is it just preference. (ie: more they need this in this food, or.. my gliders just like ...this).

Do they drink more or less or the same amounts of water if they're lapping up something so water rich? (just so I know to worry if they drink a lot less after starting this up).

Eggs.. DEFINITELY go with egglands best organics.. or does it really add that much to it? Which do YOU use?

tounge Okay, break time (rfom this round of questioning, lol).

Re: PML [Re: ] #128330
08/04/06 11:31 PM
08/04/06 11:31 PM

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I feed my gliders plenty of mealies for extra protein, and yogurt every night for extra calcium. Always have, no matter WHAT diet I feed.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128331
08/05/06 12:00 AM
08/05/06 12:00 AM

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Keep asking questions..that's what we are all here for agree

I try to put the PML in the cage about 1/2 an hour before they wake up. 9 times out of 10 they will go straight for the PML and then go have a small drink of water.

Yes, I have noticed that their coats are sleeker and less 'lumpy' (by this I mean that the fur doesn't seem to seperate, I'll find a photo to attach). They are about the same in activity as they were when on Darcys diet..which is very active.

If and when I offer mealies they get them during the day as bonding treats..just like on any other diet. But, while I was at the SGGA my husband was taking care of the kids. He put the mealies and PML in at night and they ate everything..leaving only some veggies and fruits.

Yes, all the necessary vits and minerals are in the PML diet plan. They will absorb vits and minerals from the other foods offered such as Acacia gum, nectars, proteins, monkey biscuits and Nekton.

Quote:

What else do you feed with it? Anything that are MUST haves, or is it just preference. (ie: more they need this in this food, or.. my gliders just like ...this).


The other parts of the diet are what is listed on the diet page. As for the exact quantities to be fed I do not know. It is more of a free range type there by offering variety etc.


I find that their water intake is the same as always, no change there.

Eggs: Yes I always use the Egglands Best Organic eggs..never thought about using anything else.

Attached Files
610370-Badgerw-ring.jpg (133 downloads)
Re: PML [Re: ] #128332
08/05/06 12:04 AM
08/05/06 12:04 AM

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Attached is a photo from before PML days .

Attached Files
610373-Badger092.jpg (130 downloads)
Re: PML [Re: ] #128333
08/05/06 12:08 AM
08/05/06 12:08 AM

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The only page I found.. was for the recipe, and didn't list any other foods. It just said it was 50% of the diet.

Quote:
They will absorb vits and minerals from the other foods offered such as Acacia gum, nectars, proteins, monkey biscuits and Nekton.


Except for the proteins, I dont feed any of the other things. And haven't read anything recently that told me too.. so feeding PML plus their mealies, yogurt, veggies, fruits, and babyfoods occasionally, what essential nutrients and vitamins would they be lacking if they weren't getting.. Acacia gum, nectars, monkey biscuits and Nekton?

Re: PML [Re: ] #128334
08/05/06 12:09 AM
08/05/06 12:09 AM

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ThankYou for the pictures, that's awesome. smile
Oh and also thank you for the clarification on egglands best.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128335
08/05/06 12:35 AM
08/05/06 12:35 AM

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The PML mix that you have the recipe for is the modified version of the original Leadbeaters diet. Pockets modified it as in the US you can not get the high protein baby food listed in the Australian Leadbeaters diet (created by Des Hackett).

Here is a link to the Taronga Zoo Glider Diet .

I do suggest that you contact Pockets (Debbie) and ask for her input on the extras, she has done years of research and will be better qualified to answer the detailed questions.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128336
08/05/06 12:40 AM
08/05/06 12:40 AM
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Ames, sorry but just saw this post. Since Pockets shared all this with me over a year ago I have been feeding it. I will try to answer your questions and give you some info as well on it from what I know.
Let me say once again though, before I started feeding this diet I took it to my vet, he looked it over for a week and came back and told me it is the next best thing next to sliced bread. (of course the bread isnt for the gliders!)

Ok, this is how he suggested I mix mine and I have been doing so from day one. Never had any problems with them eating it at all and yes, their overall appearance has changed a LOT from their last diet they were on.

2 c warm water
1-1/2c honey
1/4c HPW
3 scrambled eggs (I mix mine with a tad of milk before cooking them)
2 tablespoons of bee pollen

I cook the eggs and set aside
In a medium size freezer safe bowl I mix the water and honey and stir till honey is dissolved.
Add in the HPW and stir well.

In blender add eggs and bee pollen (my vet recommended the bee pollen as a natural source of calcium)
add 1/2cup of the HPW mix and blend for 1-2 minutes
turn blender off and add remaining HPW mix and blend an additional 1-2 minutes.
Pour back into freezer safe bowl with airtight lid and place in freezer.

Servings are different with the HPW then the BML or other diets. You only feed 1 to 1-1/2 TEASPOONS of the HPW diet per glider. I feed mine the 1-1/2 only because they like it so much.

In most cages I put it in a seperate dish. Those that get picky about their fruits and veggies I put it all together and it always gets them to eat the rest of their food as well. Some people do just sprinkle it on top of the food, but if doing that keep in mind that is not the full recipe therefore, not the full benefits and additional things would have to be fed to make up the difference.
I feed mine about 1/2 hour before they wake up and that is always the first thing they go for. I do not feed mealies with this, but do offer them as treats in the AM.
I also feed the 1 tablespoon of fruits and veggies each night.

The mix does not smell as strong as the BML but there is still a bit of smell to it. I have also noticed that my gliders do not poop as much as they did previously, which tells me they are getting more nutrients absorbed than before.
As for water, they drink about the same amount. But there is also a lot of water in the mix, which is beneficial to them.
As for eggs, I use the plain old eggs you buy in a carton. No eggblenders for mine.

The HPW has all the necessary vitamins and calcium in it already. However, because I do feed corn, this is why my vet recommended the bee pollen.

I also feed the gliderade twice a week along with everything else. But I dont panic if I do happen to forget every now and then, which yes, it does happen.

Keep asking questions, as it is the only way we learn.
HTH


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128337
08/05/06 01:23 AM
08/05/06 01:23 AM

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ThankYou Much Peggy. hug2 I appreciate everyone being so forthcoming with the answers to everything on my mind. I fed BML for four years.. and after that P's diet for the last four years, and as with everything I do to, with or for my gliders, I worry about it and am always paranoid I'll make the wrong decision, so getting my mental spazzings out here helps, a ton. And I'd never want to change something as significant as their diet without knowing everything I can first..

ANYWAY.. I am glad your vet spent so much time looking at the diet, and, that you've been talking to Pockets so long to get everything down just perfectly.. it defintely helps knowing you're getting information from all the best sources.

I think I am starting to feel a little better about it all. I just sent Sheila my money for the WHPS (only place I knew to find it since she mentioned it first).

So you DON'T do organic eggs, right? I was wondering, if it really mattered in the end.. I can't imagine eggs being TOO bad (of course, that's for MY four gliders, I know it might with a bunch).. but what benefits and consequences might there be to use them, or to use regular eggs? I dont mind doing either, just want to understand what I'll be adding, or taking away based on my decision..

So bee pollen.. I dont know much about this yet, but have been wanting to add something natural and yummy for them. It just seems... right. Where do you get yours? Are there multiple kinds of bee pollen? Or would the same kind I find on someone's glider supply site, be the same kind I've seen while Hubby shops at GNC? Are there ANY difference where or how you buy it? I dont want to get the wrong stuff and wind up harming them and not helping them.. ohwell

One thing Im concerned about is mixing details.. the site I was reading the recipe is different from yours, and wanted to be sure I was using the right one..

1 3/4 c of honey? -or- your 1 1/2 c?
2 eggs? -or- your 3 eggs?
1 ounce of WHPS -or- Your 1/4 cup? ohwell

Re: PML [Re: ] #128338
08/05/06 06:20 AM
08/05/06 06:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
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Thanks guys & Hi Amy
Will send you a little info when I get a chance

I only use Egg-Land's Best Organic eggs (Peg they are in a egg carton)lol - the glider 's have me eating them now!
Reason why -
High in Vitamin E
100mg of Omega 3
25% less Saturated Fat
Vegetable Fed Hens

I have ommitted one egg in the PML, due to research, which has shown an occasional & possible problem with both glider 's as well as Leadbeater's possum in captivity by eating to much cholesterol (egg yolks) which can cause fatty tumours (zanthomas) in captive possums.

PML is a triple batch of modified Leadbeater's mix & I freeze this in a freezer safe bowl with a tightly sealed lid - not ice-cube trays.

Unless I am using a species of Eucalypt honey or Manuka honey, I use 450ml of both water & honey & I use 30 grams (1 ounce) of WHPS - this can be altered seasonally, which I do do.
Yes Amy, there are many types of honey & I use many but prefer Australian Eucalypts, Acacia, Manuka UMF rated which is pricey, or Banksia

If using Wombaroo High Protein , less than half the amount is needed - the original Australian Leadbeater's mix would be 75 grams of high protein cereal for triple batch

Amy I try to stick to -
50% Leadbeater's (PML)
50% Insectivore/Carnivore mix (boiled chicken organic ,Insectivore-Fare, bisquits, very select deli, etc)
5-10% treat foods & this would also include fruits,& veggies, acacia gum, pollens, etc

I highly recommend Nekton Sugar Glider & will send you a number for a free sample from a friend at Nekton

Email tinytracks@austin.rr.com - if interested in more wave

Re: PML [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl] #128339
08/05/06 07:50 AM
08/05/06 07:50 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 250
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Quote:
Amy I try to stick to -
50% Leadbeater's (PML)
50% Insectivore/Carnivore mix (boiled chicken organic ,Insectivore-Fare, bisquits, very select deli, etc)


I know Zookeepers Secret is the same as Insectivore mix... but what if your suggies hate it to the core? What other options go along with the "etc"? By "biscuits", do you mean Monkey biscuits? By "very select deli", do you mean actual deli meats? I really am intrigued by this diet but I am just so confused as to how it all fits together. confused


I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!
Re: PML [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl] #128340
08/05/06 08:07 AM
08/05/06 08:07 AM

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Aww Yay. I know I shouldn't be surprised when official people show up to help, but it still impresses me. tounge

Pockets, Hello.. wave ..and thank you for coming to offer even more input, and better.. FREE SAMPLES. Who doesn't love those? ThankYou So Much!! hug2

I shall have to go a learn what Nekton even is. confused I thought I knew gliders. Apparently, there is much much more to learn, lol.

I'm going to be majorly confused on the amounts, I can just see it.. I get so confused when people do different things.. even subtle differences.. I never know how to translate them in to what I should be doing.

I'll definitely do egglands best, providing I can afford them. They can't be THAT bad, they're just eggs.. right? lol.. So hopefully they're reasonably priced, lol.

- 2 eggs then, not 3. Check.
- 450 ml of (regular) honey and water.
(providing I can convert ML into something I know, I'm good, lol).
- And 1 ounce of WHPS.

go it. ....I think. ohwell lol.

So bee pollen and acacia gum are treats then and meant to be fed sparingly, or.. 10% of the diet along with all other treats? And you DON'T put bee pollen directly IN the mix? Sprinkle on top? Or on something else entirely?

I am trying to keep my head on straight, but I think I feel it starting to spin a little.. tounge lol.

After some much needed sleep.. my next project is finding where I can read up on what Nekton Sugar Glider is. Staple? Food? Supplement? I must know. I should know what it is, before bothering someone for a sample of it I think. lol.

Debbie, thank you so much for stopping by to add in your own information.. I definitely need all the info I can get right now, and appreciate everyone's feedback. hug2 heart Ame.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128341
08/05/06 08:08 AM
08/05/06 08:08 AM

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wholeheart heart lol.. pull up chair. I am sure we'll both learn a little something before this thread is done.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128342
08/05/06 10:15 AM
08/05/06 10:15 AM

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i think b/c it's still a work in progress and pockets admits that it always changes.. and since i feed it as well i'd love to be updated on new changes... i have the version i was given on my website which i think is different than all of these

mine shows 1.5 to 2 tbs for two gliders which is more than 1.5 teaspoons per glider i believe

here is the one i got in an email from pockets:

1 & 3/4 CUPS OF WATER – I PREFER BOTTLED WATER

1 & 3/4 CUPS OF HONEY – I USE DIFFERENT TYPES, INCLUDING A FEW Australian types, if using Australian honey I lesson the amount to 1 & 1/2 cup.

2 – eggs- Hard-boiled & Shelled- eggland’s-best organic (brown eggs)

1 ounce = 30 grams – Wombaroo high protein supplement ( I change WHPS amount seasonally, but youdo not need to )

Mixing directions –
place water into microwave safe bowl & heat for 2 minutes.

then stir honey into warm water until honey is dissolved.

Place water/honey & eggs, into blender/food processor (I use an oster in2itive) mix for 1 minute.

Add 1 ounce (30 grams) of Wombaroo high protein supplemen & blend for additional 1 min.

Pour into freezer safe bowl with lid & freeze, I dish out
Approximately 1 & 1/2 to 2 tablespoons for two glider’s

(do not add honey & Wombaroo to hot water, as it can effect the vitamins in WHPS)

If mixed fresh in refrigerator will only last 4 days!

Re: PML [Re: ] #128343
08/05/06 10:41 AM
08/05/06 10:41 AM

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Yes, Thank You Debbie for giving your input hug2

I order Australian bee pollen from Stakich. The Nekton for sugar gliders I get from HERE.

I just sprinkle one or two bee pollens on their food every other day. Sometmes I'll grind it to a powder and use it that way.

The Nekton is a supplement that provides carbohydrates needed for energy and proteins.

Re: PML [Re: ] #128344
08/05/06 11:18 AM
08/05/06 11:18 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
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That is the correct PML modified Leadbeater's mixture posted on your website & it is as close as I can come to Des's which is the original!
(I did omit one egg from Des's original mix - due to my concerns mentioned above)

I will also say Des's mixture has been in use worlwide for almost 40 years & is still being used today agree


:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:

Re: PML [Re: ] #128345
08/05/06 11:31 AM
08/05/06 11:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
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That is the sample size that is given free to try Nekton Sugar Glider from Nekton!
Anyone interested (she is going to kill me) call Kellie at
Guenter Enterprises, Inc (Nekton Co in the USA)
Tarpon Springs, FL
(727) 669 1030

A 300 gram jar will run about $35.00 & It is not new (lol) I have been using it for several years.
Nekton Sugar Glider
Nekton
(click on Nutrition on left for good info)

Did you guy's know that the owner of the Nekton Company lives in Indonesia & last I knew he still had glider 's - he has done his research!

Lorna - I do not use Stakich, as I believe their pollen is from Western Australian eucalypts & I need to look again, but glider 's don't favor those euc species - will check ASAP!


:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:

Re: PML [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl] #128346
08/05/06 02:03 PM
08/05/06 02:03 PM

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Pockets, is there another way I can contact Kellie other than calling her, as I am hearing impaired? I would love to try a sample on our gliders. Thanks!


Jen

Re: PML [Re: ] #128347
08/05/06 02:39 PM
08/05/06 02:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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The Nekton...I was sent some about a year ago. When you get it, taste it! It is sweet and fruity (almost like juicy fruit gum!) A sprinkle on the foods and my gliders would eat things they wouldn't touch before. I used it to get some of mine eating their vegies.

The Wambaroo HPS is amazing. I have been putting it in my glider's diet for over a year now and there is an amazing difference in their fur. For those of you that saw him...I owe Reep's new and recovered fur coat to the Wambaroo HPS.

I KNOW it was the WHPS that helped his fur because he was doing really well on it, then I ran out. I didn't have any for about 6 weeks and he started loosing fur again. Back on the Wambaroo and well...he looks FANTASTIC! I think another 6 months and he will look like he did in his pre bald years. (even if he doesn't he is so beautiful to me now).


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But I'd of had to miss the dance


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Re: PML [Re: ] #128348
08/05/06 05:30 PM
08/05/06 05:30 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
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Quote:
wholeheart heart lol.. pull up chair. I am sure we'll both learn a little something before this thread is done.


Ya ain't kiddin! Me gots my chair in tow and my nose to the screen but my poor wittle head is still full of question question question
Seems that the more I read about this diet the more confused I get. I am determined, however, and I am awaiting that magic A-HA! moment when it all just clicks together in my battle-weary mind and the light bulb goes off.....

In the meantime, could someone please answer my questions from my post above? Pretty please with mealies on top.....


I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!
Re: PML [Re: ] #128349
08/05/06 07:17 PM
08/05/06 07:17 PM

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The only one of your questions that I THINK I know for sure is that I think she DOES mean moneky biscuits. As far as the select deli meats, and those two staples being the same, and what to substitute if your gliders hate them.. no idea.. lol.. I know they're more for Debbie than me though, so I'll just wait with ya. heh.

Man, I should have called for sample when I got the email info first, now I'll be like.. the eighteenth person this morning and she'll hate me, lol. But I called today, and they're closed on the weekend anyway, so I'll have to write myself a postit to remember on Monday.

Re: PML [Re: ] #150277
09/27/06 08:17 PM
09/27/06 08:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 6,894
NW Missouri
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Do you use the Nekton's on top of WHPS? Every night? or how often?

Can anyone post a weeks diet so that I can get an idea of how you mix things up over the course of a week?



"My doctrine is this: that if we see cruelty or wrong that we have the power to stop, and we do nothing, we make ourselves sharers in the guilt." ~ Anna Sewell, English Novelist
Re: PML [Re: princessmegi] #150301
09/27/06 09:33 PM
09/27/06 09:33 PM

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My George loves Jennio Turkey Ham and Daisy relishes a bit of organic 7 grain bread spread with strawberry yogurt. The turkey ham is low in fat and high in protein. They have been very healthy for 3 yrs. Is there any reason they should not have these foods as part of a well balanced diet?

Re: PML [Re: ] #150446
09/28/06 01:32 PM
09/28/06 01:32 PM
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Quincy, IL 62305
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Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Peggy,

I am going to start feeding Peggy's version of the PML but what astonishes me the difference in the amount of the WHP and the amount that they get. So it's right that Peggy's version gets 1/2 cup of WHP (for breeders) and only 1 1/2 teaspoon per glider, compared to 1oz WHP and 1 tablespoon?

Re: PML [Re: Lynsie] #150447
09/28/06 01:32 PM
09/28/06 01:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Oh, and what is that site that has the Bee Pollen? I couldnt' fine the link on Ern's site.

Re: PML [Re: Lynsie] #150449
09/28/06 01:35 PM
09/28/06 01:35 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I use PML and my babies love it!! I haven't used the bee pollen though. I'll have to look into that.

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