I believe the pipe is to keep the tail from getting caught. Glad he isn't messing with it. Keep us posted.

I thought so as well but was a thought. I try to keep there cage safe and not to have anything in there they could hurt them selfs with but with gliders sometimes u cant be care full enough.

Again i really think it was the stress of me being gone but just to be on the safe side i will take him in. He is one of my more bonded gliders so im sure he missed mommy and although he is daddys glider nobody cares for him like mommy

Another thing is while i was gone bill had him out and sometimes gizmo will get very hyper and run off and give u a run for your money. He did this and got under the entertainment center. Bill got him out but who know if he cought his hair and yanked it out. So this is another reason going to the vet would be a good idea. I have felt and looked his tail over and it looks good aside from the missing hair and he does not act like it hurts if u mess with it. He is such a good boy. Of course after a few examinations from me a treat was in order and he got the last mealie. I do need to order and he does not know what was the last one so shhhh!

The babies who are now 8 months come to the front of the cage when they hear u expecting a mealworm treat and look so dicapointed when there is none. But they are pasified witha yoggie.

I will deff keep you updated. I will keep a watchfull eye on him today and thru the night and then he will go with me to work tomorrow to be looked at. Keep your fingers crossed for a clean bill of health!

ok guys i need help. After watching him thru the day the tail looked to take on a darker look. I went ahead and took him to the vet i work for along with all the info i gathered for her. His fecal smear and float came back neg as well as his uinalises. Over all he is healthy but she did not like the look of his tail. She wanted him in a e-collar asap. He does not seem to be bother ing it but the damage has been done. She wants to see him back in a couple of days to see if the skin looks any better. If it gets worse she thinks it would be better to go ahead and take the damaged part off. she has recomended to wait on his nutering. I really did not relize how bad it was untill she explained the color and what i was looking at. I knew after i looked at it today after i posted it had looked darker. I just dont understand why he did this to his tail. Was it stress due to me leaving?

Now on to the help. I have him in a e-collar and he is [censored]. Do i keep him in his cage with hunni? I feed them in a flat plate will this work with the collar. It is one of the 3 section one from critterlove. Will he be able to get to his pouch? What do i need to do. I want his tail to get better so anything just let me know.

When Petey had an ecollar on, I clipped the pouch kitty cornered and then put a clip in the middle of the back (so the top stayed open in a triangle) so that he could get in and out of it. I also put a no sew bridge the went across and was as wide and deep midway down the cage in case he climbed and fell (I put his pouch down low). He was able to eat off a tray a little. Also make sure his water bottle is in a place where he can stand on the bottom of the cage and drink.

I'm sorry this happened. We are all praying for him. Did she give you any meds for him?

See, I flipped out with Daddy because his tail kept looking darker, but it was just because the hair was growing in.

Well this part is not due to hair growing back in. I asked that. I think like stated before if i let it go he would have started to sm. There is a small spot that almost looks like dry skin but not i dont know how to explain it and that is what she was concerned about as well as the skin coloration.

She did not give me pain meds. She is new to gliders so she is learning. Should i ask for some? If so what and what does for a 94 gram glider.

Im really hoping that the tail will heal and taking the damaged part will not be necicary. I feel helpless right now cause he is very stressed. I put him in the pouch but he is stil going crazy. Im going to take the wheel out as well as the shelfs and lower the pouch. I will make sure the water bottles are at the bottom too.

Who is a good person to talk to about this? I need to know if there is anything i can be doing to the tail to help it have a chance. What can i expect if they do have to remove.

Just a little info. He is 94 grams healthy aside from this and has never done anything like this. His mate has 2 joeys in pouch. She is about 4 weeks along.

No one can tell you why he did this. We can give you a long list of reasons that gliders SM, but, sadly, we are not yet able to identify a SURE cause in many cases.

You will have to accept that you will probably never know why he started. The GOOD thing is that you caught it before it got really bad. Good for you!

I have had a few tail amputations. If this does not get better, you will want to make sure that she amputates a few joints ABOVE where the necrosis is.

I agree, pain meds should be given. We can't give doses here, as we are not vets. But, I will PM you my vet's number. Your vet can call him and consult if she likes.

You are doing great. Hang in there. He will be fine in no time.

thanks a bunch Val. If they do have to amputate he will lose all the brown part and some of the grey. Is there any lasting affects on a glider that looses part of a tail?

What is the best pain med for this kind of pain?

Ill deff give my vet your vets number thanks so much. He still has not calmed down at all. He is still up trying to get the collar off. He wants to me and i get him out and he calms down for a few min then he goes crazy again. I have put blankets on the bottem of his cage cause he willnot go in the pouch. He can get into it but he just is not. Should i put him in a smaller cage? Im worried he will fall. I have already took out all shelves and his wheel but if he climbs up the cage onto hamiks he does not watch where he is going. I dont want to take him from his mate as she has joeys in pouch so should i move them both?

Melissa, I am feeling your worry/stress/anguish. I'm going through my 4th glider having part of a tail amputated. (Mind you, I have 2 that have stumps like a HAMSTER so I can speak here. It took 3 surgeries for each of them to get their tails to a point where they'd heal!)

I'll address your concerns from the most recent post going backwards. Willy and Lilly have very little effect from being stumpy-tailed...granted their "flying" ability is somewhat limited, but they've found a new way to get around: they JUMP. They've also become 2 of the most loving "mama's babies" that I could ever ask for! In the long run, any glider will be only as handicapped as you are mentally & emotionally toward them.

I have Magellan in a "hospital cage" which is smaller than his regular home and NO WHEEL at all. He could run in his Stealth Wheel if I were to put it in there, but....it's too easy for him to catch his e-collar in the track were he to start running at a good pace. He is alone in the cage: during supervised visitation, the other members of his family want to "help" him by picking at the bandage on his tail. (I fear that Hunni will do the same thing to Gizmo: her intentions are good, but she can cause serious damage if they're kept together. Putting their cages close together could keep Hunni's anxieties lower, but it needs to be done)

One thing I learned from this last go-around with tail injuries: Bandaging a tail can be a bit of a challenge. Go to your nearest farmer's supply or Co-Op and check out a product called VetWrap (it comes in some PRETTY COLORS) and is the coolest thing for those "difficult areas" to bandage. It doesn't pull hair out when you have to take it off, and a glider in an e-collar can't work it free.

Another cool trick: the pain meds can be put into MEALWORMS. That's another helpful tip to pass along to you.

If your vet needs yet another person to consult, have her call mine...like I said, we've been through 3 already & am in the middle of #4. Dr. Bill Kerley, 260/447-1558.

Prayers and best wishes for everything good that the new day can bring.

Gizmo is at the lets see if the tail will get worse or heal. Do I need to put him in a diff cage right now? I hate to do this to him and hunni. They have 2 jeoys in pouch. I know they come first but hunni is a stressful glider anyways i worry what it will do to her to loose gizmo. I can see taking him out if he does have to have surgery but now? If it is whats best for him then ill do it.

I work for a vet so i can get the vet wrap in fact i think i have some now. I will be asking about the pain meds tomorrow.
I will also pass along the number thanks so much.

Oh guys i dont know what to do! he is miserable. I have tried every dish and he wants to eat with his hands and cant and is getting frusterated. Im desperate. I know not to take the collar off but how can i let him torment himself like this. He is so mad he is crabing at the dogs thru the cage and lunging at them and he never does this! Please oh please tell me im doing the right thing. He is stressing hunni out with his thrashing around. I will have to get my joey cage out tomorrow and seperate them during the nights. I will keep him and her on me during the day mabey this will calm him. He runs right to me when he sees me coming to his cage and he will just sit in my arms for a bit then go crazy again. If i do pain meds will that help dope him up a bit and calm him? Im so upset right now. I dont like seeing him this way.

ok well i have to log off now and go to bed i have to work tomorrow. He will be going with me and the girls up front will keep and eye on him. I hate this so much. Im so affraid this will do him more harm in the stress department but what can u do its either that or SMing. We cought it right befor that point i think and if the tail does not die we will be good. I will post when i get home tomorrow. Thank you all for the info and support.

Melissa
No glider likes being in the e-collar. Some take days to calm down and accept it. But the alternative is much, much worse.

Unfortunately, when dealing with tails, an e-collar is very, very necessary.

You are doing the right thing. He will not like the e-collar, but you cannot let those pleading eyes and that crabby attitude convince you to do what you know is not right. Yes, it is stressful. But, in the e-collar, he is safe.

Hang in there.

Timmy has been in an ecollar most of the last 4+ weeks. I cut his mealies up and hand feed them to him (it was so hard watching him trying to grab it through the collar....) He is able to eat his PP diet with the collar on. I use the plastic lids from the baby food containers, work great! I also started giving him a little ensure, which he loves, for a little extra calcium. It is very hard, but believe me, the alternative is MUCH WORSE!! We are all praying for both of you. Hang in there. Tough love is always hard, but usually always necessary, as well.

I'm so sorry I didn't see this before now...

It's NOT an easy thing ever to have a glider in an e-collar. But I'll echo Mary's comments: Magellan has been in one for 3 weeks now & he's coping. He's learned that he can't use his paws & has adjusted his eating habits accordingly.

I'll also echo Val's comments: The alternative is MUCH MUCH WORSE. Given a chance to get to his tail, he'd do a LOT of damage. I only wish we could communicate to gliders that this is a MUST DO thing for their own good... *sigh*

My prayers for you & Gizmo continue.

Gosh guys it is hard watching him. I got up this morning and he was hangning out his pouch sleeping. Im going to have to make a pouch just for this purpose. Im going to make it a wide pouch so it does not colaps in like a normal pouch would when they are in there. Not sure how to do it though. My vet contacted one of the numbers you guys gave me and got him on some pain meds. He would not take food from me so i think for feeding tonight i will take the collar off and sit and watch him while he at least eats something then put it back on. I have seen him drink.

I hate seeing him want to grab the food with his hands but not be able to. I had such a hard time last night. It is easyer today but not much. He went to work with me today and got lots of attn. Everyone could not belive i could get a e-collar so small. They thought it was cute.

The vet thinks there is only a 50/50 chance he will keep that part of the tail. But at least he has that much. Im just glad i listened and took him in.

Thanks guys so much.

Melissa, I know it is hard, but I am telling you, do not take it off! He will be even worse if you do and you risk not being able to get it back on. Keep offering food, cut up mealies and hold them for him. Get some Ensure, he can drink that. I am speaking from experience here. I wish I were closer, I would come over help. He will settle, but if you take it off, you are only going to make it harder on him.

What if he still refuses to eat from my hand. Getting the collar on him is actualy no prob with him. He sits still for me to put it on. I dont have mealies and i wish i did cause i know he would eat those. I have some wax worms should i give him a few of those even though they are such high fat? Mabey he would figure out with one that he can eat from my hands.

Yes, cut them in half, though, so he doesn't choke. I fed those at first, as they were easier for Timmy. I know it is hard, he has to adjust and taking it off and putting it on is not going to make this any easier on him. I know its hard, believe me!

You can take a hoop - like a crochet hoop or whatever they are called - plastic or metal hoop/ring and sew it into the top of a pouch - fold the pouch over at the top and hand stitch it. This will keep the pouch open.

I have a few. I'll try to get a picture for you in a bit.

His fav treat is the yoggies which im out of thanks to my son he ate the rest.

I can get some more this weekend. I will try to get some mealies. I will offer him a few waxies and see if he wil eat them.

Well i fed gizmo a couple waxworms and he did not know what to do. He kept pulling it out of my finger then trying to use his hands. I started holding tight and he finaly gave up and started eating them from my fingers. And good news i found a few yoggies stashed in the fridge lol. I gave him one. Im going to try my best to get him to take his food from me tonight at least some so i know he got some and see if he can manage the rest on his own.

That is a really good idea using the hoop. Ill go pick on up tomorrow and fix them up a pouch.

Im really hoping he will not need the tail amputated. We will see what she says on friday.

In the meantime collar, pain meds and lots of love for him. He had everyone fawning all over him at work.

I just fed dinner. I pulled gizmo out and had to hold him over the bowl i though might work. He did drink some hpw but was not interested in eating veggies from me. I put the hpw on a diff type plate and put him back in his cage. He was able to cram his face into it and get some hpw so if he wants to he can get to the fruit smoothy and veggies. Man was he a mess though lol. Im going to have to clean him in the mornings at this rate but im glad he is eating.

The tail really looks black guys and im so worried he will loose part of it. Dont get me wrong id rather that then him go into compleat SM and have more probs. He is our first glider and what really sparked my habit. We had planed on just having him but well you can see where that led lol. He is sucha good layed back boy. The only prob i have out of him is he is very male agressive but i hope that calms down when we nuter him.

If he does need part of his tail amputated do you think sense he will already be under and need a e-collar anyways i should get him nutered at the same time or wait? I was thinking at the same time. Id rather not put him under twice.

Sweetie, believe me....I'm feeling your pain & his to the 9th degree. It's NO FUN to have a baby in an e-collar...but this is what HAS to be done & they DO adjust. I wish I could send you a video of Magellan eating a mealworm with his collar on: we start with me picking out the whitest ones & smaller ones in the box. I put it in front of his nose, he grabs it with his mouth & tilts his head back while he chews on his mealie. When he's done with it, he spits it out & leans forward for his next mealie....this process continues until he's had his "fill". When we're done, I take a q-tip & clean out the "remains" under his chin. He pretty much handles Yogies the same way: he bites them into 2-3 pieces & uses his tongue to lick up the parts until it's all gone.

The embroidery hoop is a WONDERFUL idea. You could even do the "no-sew" approach: see if you can follow my thoughts here...

Take a bowl that's the same diameter as your hoop & turn it upside down. Grab a big piece of fleece and lay it over the bowl, then put the hoop down & shape your fleece to the height of the bowl. Measure out about 3" from the edge of the hoop/bowl set-up. Cut around the outside (you'll have a HUGE circle of fleece)...then cut about 1/2" wide strips toward the center of the bowl-hoop. Remove the bowl & tie the strips around the embroidery hoop. Ta-da, you have a wide-mouthed fleece nest for your babies to snuggle in. Toss in a few 2" squares of fleece, and that'll make quite the sleeping set-up. (Oooooh how I wish my camera battery wasn't dead right now: I'd take a pic of Magellan's nest & upload it for you to show the "finished product")

Magellan has now made it for 48 hours without figuring out how to unwrap his tail with the VetWrap bandage. My vet has me using a piece of Adaptic underneath to help with healing...the bad part of THAT stuff is that it takes the stickiness out of ANY kind of regular medical tape that the drug stores sell That's what inspired me to get my roll of VetWrap out....and bandaging a wiggly glider's tail without help can be a bit of a challenge!

Stay positive! A 50-50 shot at keeping his tail intact is better than NO chance at all. But if the odds shift against you...I'll be here to give you all the moral support I can.

You and I must've been writing at the same time...that and I was rather "long-winded"

If it's blackening that fast, you might NOT want to wait until Friday...frankly. Is there any chance that you can get him in TODAY (since it's officially Thursay now)? The longer you wait, the faster that necrotic tissue is going to spread...and that is NOT GOOD in any language.

And no, I do NOT recommend that you have him neutered at the same time while he's "under". His body is already concentrating on fighting one area of injury/invasion/damage. You do NOT want to create another area where his already-overworking immune system needs to fight.

I'm sorry, but that's my 2 cents worth.

That is what gizmo is doing with his yoggies. Then at the end he figured out that it is ok if mom holds it and he chews it but he still gobbles it down.

Does Magellen seem to be more "hold me mommy" sense the collar has been on? Gizmo is are second most bonded glider and is the bigest sweetheart. He is rather a explorer though. He would rather go play then be in your arms and with this collar he is sticking close to me.

I was thinking along the same lines as u on the pouch and that isa good idea. I was planing on tomorrow getting a pool ring and using the new sew method and make a deap wide open pouch. I plan on getting it done first thing in the morning.

My vet checked him about 6 pm yesterday(wed) and the blackness is not spreding but it has gotten darker then what it was. She was wanting to give it till friday to try to give it a chance. It is the bottem part that is the worse in coloring so we are hoping sense it is not all the way around the tail it has a better chance. But she feels the same way i do that if it is not any better by friday then it needs to come off asap to avoid any more probs. Untill then he will stay in the collar and im proud to say i did not give in to those big pleading eyes. I left the collar. He seems to have calmed down a bit and is not thrashing around. If he sees me he will run to the front of the cage with a bit of trip ups with the collar getting stuck on the bottom of the cage and just clings to the bars pleading with me to take him out which i promptly do. He is so far being very good about taking his meds. He opened his mouth and took it like a chap. The pain med is called Metacam and my vet says it does not have to bad of a taste.


I understand about the nutering and will hold off. Hunni has jeoys in pouch now and still has at least another month befor they come out and she seems to not let gizmo breed her right away so hopefully They will hold off untill i can get him nutered. There are a couple of reasons i wanted him nutered and the smallest is i cant track her linage. I know they are not related but i dont like not being able to track it. Bill has not wanted me to nuter gizmo(his glider)and they have had 2 sets of twins that have gone to non breeding homes. The biggest reason is hunni seems to not have enough milk for the first 2 weeks and the babies seem to be very small and the secnd set premi. I finaly made hubby relize it is not healthy for her to breed and not right to breed her not being able to track her linage. So in a nut shell i think gizmos health right now over rules that. Mabey he will heal well and i can get it done befor these joeys are weened. These joeys should be staying with mommy and daddy as a colony so i will have time to nuter him.


Should he need his tail amputated i know he will need to stay on pain meds but what about antibiotics? I want to cover all corners as to keep him healthy.

Thank you so much for being supportive. I know his case is not as bad as others by no means but it has been hard on me to see him this way as im sure it is hard on any mommy.

Get it done at the same time, since he will already be in a collar, otherwise, you will have to put one on him when he has the neuter done (since he has already gone after himself). He will be on meds already, so I would definitely do them both at once. JMHO. Not having to be put under a second time, do the meds, collar, etc, all again. Granted, I have not gone through an amputation, but I know I am glad I did Timmy's neuter at the same time. His body was already in 'healing mode', he was on the same meds he would need (oh, btw, you can only use Metacam for 3 days, so you will need something else. I recommend Buprenex) and well, the neuter will heal quickly and he won't even notice it is done.

Glad you left the collar off. Taking it off would have brought you both back to the beginning again (and he may not have been as willing to let you put it back on him, either!) Each day he will get better. I cut up small fleece 'napkins' to clean Timmy's face (very soft and take all the mess off and he doesn't seem to mind it at all!)

Good luck!

If it were me, I would have them done at the same time as well. I am a HUGE advocate of limiting anesthesia use as much as possible.

Here is a link to a little information about anesthesia use in gliders:
Effects of Anesthesia

I think it would be in his best interest to limit anesthesia use and to go ahead and have both surgeries at the same time. Furthermore, even if the tail does not have to be amputated, I would go ahead and have him neutered now, so that you don't have to go back into the ecollar later.

While it is true that it will be hard on his little body to heal two areas at once, I can tell you from experience that it is possible. Also, one must consider the importance of mental/emotional health on healing. To go through this whole process again would only increase his stress.

I'm also vrey diligent in giving yogurt frequently during any stressful event.

And, yes, he should continue on antibiotics for several weeks after an amputation.