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Pockets Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 #44570
04/30/05 12:57 PM
04/30/05 12:57 PM

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Had to continue Part 2... (refer to original Pockets Leadbeaters Mix thread)

Quote:
Not only do I not know that particular little tidbit, I don't know "ANY" of the absolute nutritional requirements for gliders and would be pretty confident in saying there are few if any who really do.


Randy, Here is a little bit of info from Wombaroo

Quote:
Protein Requirements:
Providing protein intake supplies adequate levels of all essential amino acids, then maintenance protein requirement for mammals ranges from about 1.5g to 6g per kg -075 per day. Protein requirement is related to the amount of energy expended. If there is no gain in body weight then energy intake can be substituted for energy expended. An average value of 6mg of protein per kj of energy intake can be used to estimate maintenance protein requirement.
For Wombaroo this translates into 90mg per kj of energy or 4g per kg -075 per day. The amount of supplement needed will depend on the protein quantity and quality in the existing diet and the species.


Actually, from a neutral source, I do believe the info indicated above from Wombaroo is also mentioned in Ian Hume's study, Marsupial Nutrition, pg. 25-31. In the section he describes marsupial protein requirements in depth, as well as several other cool and interesting things like sugar gliders and their possible increased ability to recycle endogenous nitrogen to the digestive tract, thereby being able to retain/synthesize proteins (i.e. protein from nitrogen existing in digestive waste products, namely urine). read laugh

Mikey dance

off_topic Btw Ern, thanks again for lending me your copy of the Ian Humes publication. It has taught me heaps! I believe that specific question from awhile back has been addressed here.

Last edited by KattyM; 02/24/09 02:38 AM. Reason: Added link to first thread
Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44571
04/30/05 01:38 PM
04/30/05 01:38 PM

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What I would have to say is this. We group marsupials as though they are a monolithic group, and they simply are not. Namely, most studies that talk about marsupials are talking about zoo relevant marsupials such as kangaroo's and wallabey's. They are as different from us, as we are from rats. That said, nobody would assume that we have to same diet as rats. After all, rats need to eat their first......round of waste....the solid kind, before they can fully digest it.

Re: Pockets Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44572
04/30/05 01:47 PM
04/30/05 01:47 PM

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Well, though that may be the case for most studies you speak of, Ian Humes Marsupial Nutirtion is a scientific publication that would not fall under such a category and goes very indepth, covering all marsupial families and nearly all marsupial species, with sections grouping the marsupials in their digestive types (herbivores, omnivores, carnivores) and also detailing the science of the nutrition for specific marsupial species with references from other studies.

Also, with regards to the science of protein requirements, it was mentioned in the publication that all mammals, despite being eutherian or marsupial, generally fall under the same protein stats (with minor variance in some things due to other factors), which is why in such studies some of the protein info presented was addressed in respect to marsupials as a whole.

Actually, I think you'd be very interested in reading it if you ever get the chance, Misia. smile

Mikey dance

Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44573
04/30/05 08:21 PM
04/30/05 08:21 PM

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Quote:
...Providing protein intake supplies adequate levels of all essential amino acids, then maintenance protein requirement for mammals ranges from about 1.5g to 6g per kg -075 per day. Protein requirement is related to the amount of energy expended. If there is no gain in body weight then energy intake can be substituted for energy expended. An average value of 6mg of protein per kj of energy intake can be used to estimate maintenance protein requirement.
For Wombaroo this translates into 90mg per kj of energy or 4g per kg -075 per day...


For 99.9% of the members of this board, the above might just as well be written Chinese!!!!! For those of you have who have read Hume's book and have the benefit of his teaching, how about translating the above and telling everyone how many grams of protein a 100 gram glider should take in every day??

And for those of you who are just joining this discussion, you can find the first part of this discussion "HERE."

Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44574
04/30/05 09:11 PM
04/30/05 09:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Randy, I have to agree with you. That is about as foolish as anything I have ever seen published about a diet pretaining to any animal. It is only a lot of gibberish that can not be measured or proven. If there is a logicial explination I would like to see it produced. Let's not get caught up into a lot of double talk that does not make any logical sense.
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
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Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44575
04/30/05 09:22 PM
04/30/05 09:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
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Glideritis Anonymous
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Foolish to one may make good sense to another. There are parts in each and every diet that has been introduced that others have thought to be *jibberish*.

A new idea is being brought forth, lets not be quick to bash anything unless we are capable of doing the research and the studies that have the ability to show why this diet or any other, should not be used.Nobody is saying one diet is better than another. And I just find it amazing how whenever someone brings a new idea on board others are willing to find all that is wrong with it, yet I never see these same people posting on how to improve the health and wellbeing of the gliders.

now lets keep this a bash free post and if it is a diet one does not wish to try, than dont.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44576
04/30/05 11:58 PM
04/30/05 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,093
Port Aransas, TX
Pockets Offline
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Posts: 2,093
Port Aransas, TX
Thanks Mikey, you are aware of Ian Humes excellent works, they have been available for many many years!

Thanks Peggy - until others wish to look for credible answers - they will remain uneducated in the diet issues for their glider 's!
I am very surprised others have not ventured & looked to the experts in marsupial nutrition - very sad indeed

You can close this thread - Thanks Peggy


:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org.au/
Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl] #44577
05/01/05 12:00 AM
05/01/05 12:00 AM

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Re: Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2 [Re: ] #44578
05/01/05 12:13 AM
05/01/05 12:13 AM

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I was so excited when this thread opened - I thought we were finally going to be able to discuss new diets in an open forum. This post will now be closed upon request.


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