GliderCENTRAL

Need some quick help, PLEASE!!!

Posted By: Anonymous

Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 07:11 AM

I need some quick help here, please. Laredo is sick and I need to get him to the vet ASAP. He is showing signs of dehydration and although I have syringes-( I'm diabetic ), I have no idea what I can use to properly hydrate him and I'm certain that I don't know what else to use. I noticed that he's been a little off his normal routine in the last day or two, but not until tonight did he appear lethargic, cold to the touch, and showing the "tenting" of dehydration. He's been eating a little less than normal the past day or two as well, but I've watched him eat and drink some. I will have to wait until morning to reach a vet in a town about an hour from here. I'm in a VERY small community with only the local large animal vet, whose totally unfamiliar with gliders. Any chance of my being able to get something for the dehydration from somewhere at this time of the morning? I know timing is vitally important and I will do my best to get him to the vet first thing in the AM, but I want to help him now. He's somewhat alert, but definitely NOT his normal active self! Judie, Karin, Sheila, or anyone logged on with suggestions, HELP PLEASE!!
Posted By: SugarBaby22

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 07:26 AM

One of my current rescues was also extremely dehydrated, luckily that was the only thing wrong with him. Give him some fluids if you can't get to a vet, pedialyte being the top choice. If not Gliderade, water, water with some honey in it, or appple juice are all things to try. I would try Pedialyte and then pure apple juice, after he drinks some water down the apple juice. That's all that I really know, I wish that I could be of more help! Good luck and keep us updated!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: SugarBaby22

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 07:36 AM

I did a quick search, from what I found you need to give him something sweet immediately!

This is the information that I found:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Take notice that your glider is active, sugar gliders are known to become very lethargic when their sugar intake is below normal. This happens more often when a glider is exposed to stressful conditions. If your glider shows signs of lethargy try to get some ‘Gliderade’ and or honey into him. Consult the breeder if possible and keep
it warm and quiet. Most gliders come out of this state in a matter of a day or so if they get some carbohydrates into their system.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

From CV Exotics:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
IF THE GLIDER EVER BECOMES LETHARGIC THE CAUSE COULD BE LOW BLOOD SUGAR. IMMEDIATELY ADMINISTER SOMETHING SWEET SUCH AS FRUIT NECTAR AND PEDIALYTE WITH AN EYE DROPPER, HONEY OR NUTRI-CAL (YOU CAN GET THIS FROM MOST PET STORES).

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 08:30 AM

Thanks for replying Linda! I knew I didn't have any Pedialyte on hand, but I always have apple juice, so I concurred with your recommendation and gave him 6/10 cc of apple juice. ( I used a 3/10 cc insulin syringe with the needle removed ) He was no longer cold to the touch thankfully, as I rousted him from his warm seclusion with Kira in their nest-box. He didn't appreciate being bothered though and gave me a little nip to make his point! He did take the first syringe full of apple juice quite readily though and the second one required just a bit of coaxing. He didn't seem to want more now, but I will keep giving him periodic repeat doses of the apple juice and see if I can get some Pedialyte for him first thing in the morning. He may simply be hypoglycemic and I'm so glad that you pointed that out as a possibility. It should have been obvious to me as a diabetic, but I didn't even think about that as a possibility for a glider! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I am quite familiar with hypoglycemia in people-( as my son and I are both Type 1 diabetics and often have to treat our own bouts with hypoglycemia ), but I didn't realize it was that prevalent with gliders too. Ironic to be diabetic and not have a clue about something like this, but again, I thank you kindly for posting this information. He's a little more alert and responsive than he was earlier-( and I actually appreciated the nip which reassured me somewhat ) I will post again later this morning with an update and whether a holiday vet visit will be necessary for him. Hypoglycemia would actually be a blessing in disguise, as I had a myriad of numerous more intense maladies running through my mind! Thanks again and I'm logging off to tend to Laredo! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Judie

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 03:28 PM

Jeff, sorry did not see your post last night. D5w is the best sub q fluids to give. Will help keep his sugar level in his system if he is not eating. If severly dehydrated you can give him 3-4cc. every four to six hours till he is eating on his own.

Suggest vet care as usually glider is suffering from a bacterial or protozoan illness that is causing dehydration.

Good Luck.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 04:20 PM

[:"green"]Laredo is acting better this morning and I've just returned from the store with Ensure High Calcium, Pedialyte, and Hawaiian Delight baby food for him. Thanks to everyone for responding..Linda, Robin, Karin, Toni, Judie, and John-(Rowdy Glider) for your help! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> John called the vets to find that they are all too preoccupied with their holiday plans to find a glider worthy of their precious time-( I think I once alluded to this fact in a previous posting with Karin ) They can't be bothered unless it means a considerable monetary windfall for them-i.e.-sick elephant, race horse, Mayor's dog, etc., but not a glider! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" /> Taylorville closed, said to call Springfield-( no exotic vets listed in Spfld ); Decatur exotic vet not on call, come in tomorrow, Champaign vets are probably on call for emergencies-( U of I vet school ), but are located about three hours away from me! Since he's eating a grape, his ears have perked up, and he's not looking listless or lethargic, I'm going to offer him the Ensure High Calcium, some Pedialyte, and whatever he's willing to consume. I will keep a VERY close eye on him and update everyone as I can.[/][:"red"] Thanks Judie for the D5W recommendation--any idea where I might be able to get this considering the vets are all too preoccupied today?[/][:"green"] I'll be back in a few to check the board, need to go and tend to Laredo. By the way, Kira is fine and keeping him company in the nest-box. No stresses that I can think of....in fact, it's rather quiet as the kids went with their Mom for weekend visitation..unless Laredo prefers the normal mayhem and is upset by the lack of commotion and noise?[/] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Lucy

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 04:49 PM

Hi, Pouch Potato -- is there a chance the vet clinic in your small town could see Laredo, even if they aren't glider-saavy? People like Judie and Ellen could talk to the vet about possible problems and care, and any vet should be able to do a fecal smear and float to look for parasites.

When a glider gets sick or dehydrated, one of the principal concerns is the loss of calcium. It appears that they lose the ability to hold onto calcium quickly in these situations. At least that's been the experience of many of us here.

I will pray for Laredo, and hope that things improve soon and that you can find a vet able to help to day if possible.
Posted By: Judie

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 04:51 PM

Jeff...call an Emerg Clinic. They should have a bag of it on hand. It is a 1000 ml size but you can keep it in the frig for a year or so. I usually throw out mine after that and purchase a new bag. Cost is about $12.

Have you tried calling every vet listed in the phone book? It does not need to be a vet who is knowledgeable with exotics just one who is willing. Bacterial and Protozoan problems that we find in gliders are often seen smaller animals. Right now you just need a vet who is able to at least run the standard tests which they do all the time with dog and cats, rabbits and rats. When it comes to meds and ratios...we here on Glider Central can link you with a vet who will do a consultation over the phone if need be.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 06:20 PM

Jeff's area is my old "stomping grounds". From my reconing, there are no vets in Nokomis, and the ones in Taylorville wouldn't know a glider from an elephant. They are the ones that said to go to Springfield. If Springfield were the only choice, Jeff would be beter off coming to me, then we could continue on to Champaign, where my usual vet, and the best e-vet are located.

Jeff, if "The Medicine Shoppe" is open, they might have the D5W. That would be the only place I can think of, besides T'ville hospital or maybe one of the drug stores in T'ville. If you end up going to T'ville tomorrow, the Northside Clinic is up north of the new bowling alley, on Webster street.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 07:17 PM

That seems to be our only course of action right now. Jeff is contacting them to see about that.

On a sad note......the Emergency vet in Springfield said all they could do if we brought him in was to euthanize him. I told them to forget it, and went on to another vet.

BTW...I was wrong...there is a vet in Nokomis, but he mostly sees horses and the like. He should have no problem with a phone consultation, provided he isn't too picky about his "patients", and is willing to see something new.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/26/03 08:21 PM

[:"green"]Well, I took your advice Lucy and called to see if the local vet would both sell me some D5W and consult with someone over the telephone for treating Laredo. No answer, and non-functioning answering machine leaving horrific loud pitched noises only. I will have to wait until they open in the morning and have both a fecal float and smear done and anything else they can do to ascertain the underlying problem-i.e.-phone consult with someone here, run other tests, etc.

Thanks to Judie and Carrie for the great suggestion of the clinic or hospitals! It's a good idea! Only one problem with living in the boonies, as for purchasing some D5W, we have no hospital or emergency clinic in the area, just the nursing home and two local small town pharmacies-(both closed with no after hours number). The nursing home uses D5W, but said "NO WAY!!" and explained that it is against regulations to so much as hand out an aspirin or Tylenol! I figured as much, but thought I would ask them nicely, never the less. Also tried the ambulance service here, as I know they keep some on hand, but got a non-emergency answering machine. I didn't bother to leave a message on there, as the last time I was in dire need of something, it was 3-4 days before they called me back! They told me to call 9-1-1 if it's of dire importance and I don't think they would consider this as such-(although it is to us!)

So, it looks like I have only one option left and that is to do the best I can with what I have here. I'll keep offering him the Ensure and Pedialyte, orally by syringe, fruit, baby food, & BML if he'll take it, and keep him warm and comfy until early tomorrow morning. John and I concur with our disgust at the horrifying and insensitive option offered by the one un-named clinic in Springfield! I will refrain from sharing our precise colorfully worded commentary! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

If anyone has any alternative options or suggestions, please feel free to share them and I'll be back later to check the board. Thanks to everyone and I'll keep you updated![/]
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Sorry Carrie...didn't see your question until after I posted this...it's 240 miles away.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 02:40 AM

[:"green"]Sorry about the delay in updating! All is well at the moment and Laredo and Kira have been given Flagyll as a precautionary measure, despite the negative finding for any "unwanted little buggers" showing up in fecal flotation. Laredo was given 2cc of Lactated Ringer's with a B complex vitamin additive. Another dose of Flagyll for both will be given tomorrow and I have a 1,000 mL bag of Lactated Ringer's and several syringes for additional sub-q injections, should they be deemed necessary in the future. I expect to get fecal samples in the next day or two and return them for another testing to detect the presence of any unwanted visitors that may be "dislodged" by the Flagyll, should any be present.

It wasn't the vet in Decatur that I went to, but Animal Kingdom Pet Clinic in Taylorville, IL. Dr. Sloan is now practicing at that location and no longer affiliated with the vet in my town who wouldn't do the fecal tests and refused to see a glider! Dr. Sloan has a very competent technician who was extremely helpful and along with the gracious and professional assistance of Dr. Ross and Ellen via telephone, things are looking much brighter for my fuzzbutts! Ellen and Bruce are WONDERFUL, KNOWLEDGEABLE, CARING, AND GIVING people whom I cannot thank adequately with simple words! I thank everyone who has shown immense concern, prayers, and thoughtful advice! This truly is a great group of folks! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" /> (Whispers to self..."and thank God some of them don't hold grudges for past indiscretions made by yours truly!") Thanks again to all and I will update with progress reports or future findings as they unfold.

And now, despite the clutch cable going out and needing emergency road side replacement, the transmission also requiring emergency road side work just around the corner from the vet clinic-(clutch went out just around the corner upon our arrival to vet clinic), the many severe stress headaches, skipped meals-(by me and the gliders), my children wondering if I had run away from home, my overdrawn checking account, and whatever else my tired brain is leaving out....I'm content that I'm home safe and sound with Kira and Laredo on the road to recovery! (Now I need to eat a late supper and tend to children..human and glider!) <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />[/]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 03:01 AM

PP - how could we not love you and yours? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm so glad for you and your wee ones! Enjoy your dinner and sleep well - all those kids (human and not!) will be ready for another day very soon! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Judie

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 03:32 AM

Sound's like all is well. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 03:47 AM

Jeff, we're just glad Laredo and Kira are ok! And Lucy's right, we are a family and I would venture a guess that you've been missed here!
Chey
Posted By: Karin

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 04:24 AM

**Sighs deeply** in relief. Yeaaaaaahhh!

Told ya that's what friends are for Jeff... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />.

Karin
Posted By: SugarBaby22

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 06:15 AM

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> I'm glad they're okay!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 03:05 PM

Hi Jeff! I just saw this thread. I'm glad everything is coming together and my thoughts are with you and your babies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 04:16 PM

[:"green"]Thanks Lynn and congrats on your newest little one, Vaughn![/] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

[:"black"]Ellen:[/] [:"green"]E-mail sent. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Weights up from initial onset of symptoms for both!
Laredo was down to 83.2 g on Saturday or Sunday-(I think..the days kind of ran together over the last few)-and Kira was down to 68.0 g. Now Laredo is up to 89.1 g and Kira is up to 72.1 g. That's a climb of 5.9 g and 4.1 g respectively! YEAH!!!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> [/][:"maroon"]

(Quietly humming theme from "The Jeffersons"...you know the one..."and we're movin' on up..")
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> [/]
Posted By: BeetleJuice

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 07:50 PM

Jeff,

Glad to here that Kira and Laredo are doing better. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 08:06 PM

Happy news!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 09:22 PM

I've been watching in the wings and holding my breath. I am so glad everything is okay. Give the babies kisses from me.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 11:34 PM

Jeff, Glad to hear Larado is OK. I was given the impression by Dr. Sloan that they wouldn't even see a glider, but then again, that was a few months ago. Maybe, just maybe, we can convince someone in the area to get interested enough in gliders for them to go and learn a thing or two to help us out when we need it. I would gladly drive the extra 15 miles to go to T'ville, instead of Champaign, if it meant I (read that WE) would get the help we need.
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/28/03 11:37 PM

I know now isn't the time, but since the fecals came back clean, and I know that is not indictive of a clean gut, but have you checked the water bottle to be sure the ball wasn't stuck, it is uncommon for both gliders to show symptoms of dehydration and weight loss at the same time, not totally impossible just not common. Their bodies are mainly water, so the dehydration will cause the weight loss to seem so dramatic, also by giving them the fluids, it will also increase their weight dramatically as it has.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/29/03 03:09 AM

Good call Bourbon. If there doesn't seem to be a physical cause then the rule is you must look for a possible environmental cause. Also, if you have a water softener system ...it adds an enormous amount of sodium into the body thus causing dehydration. Do not feed your gliders water that has come from a softened system. It causes dehydration because inorder to compensate for the electrolyte imbalance the body will have the glider excrete the extra sodium via urine and in the process the glider loses water thus causing dehydration. Some bottled water has high sodium content and never use mineral water with your gliders or you may risk causing renal stones (caculi). My goal is to educate even if I am not being much help. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/29/03 06:03 AM

[:"green"]Thanks Bourbon and Crittermom for the head's up, but I have both gliders in full view 24/7/365 and use two bottles simultaneously that I disassemble and clean every other night or two. I use anti-bac dish soap, bleach, and hot water, followed by a thorough rinse of hot water. The water I use is from the small city water department and is treated at a plant within a stone's throw from my home. I place (2) one gallon jugs of water in the refrigerator for a minimum of 48 hours prior to filling the gliders' bottles. I raise my own feeders, so I use the same practice with the gliders' feeder mice water bottle-(with one noticeable difference..I add a few drops vanilla to their H2O to reduce "mousy musk"). I researched bottled water a great deal and came to the conclusion-(perhaps erroneously <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> )-that our tap water here was likely MUCH safer than most bottled water, with the added precaution of allowing it to remain in fridge for the above referenced 2 days. Perhaps I need to do some further research and revisit the possibility of bottled vs. tap. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/question.gif" alt="" />

As for the weight loss, Kira has been light for the 19 mths. I've had her with me-(I was her 4th owner in her first ~14 mths. of life). She originally came from a member of this board who took her in as a rescue and then sold her to a college student, who then sold her to me with her mate, Winnie, who passed away Memorial Day of 2002. Kira's heaviest weight to date has been 72 grams-(taken quite a while ago), so the 68 wasn't drastically different and she wasn't showing outward signs like Laredo. She's also an alpha female whose never produced any joeys, despite Laredo's valiant efforts every 29 days! I'm thinking she's either eating them en route to marsupium or is infertile. Perhaps she's always been lightweight with infertility linked as result of prior diets or ???

Laredo's the one whose weight loss, lethargy, and dehydration showed dramatically and suddenly. Kira's treatment came primarily as a precautionary measure and due to her being Laredo's mate-(although she would prefer the label of "boss")! She wasn't "tenting" much, but as she too has shown a loss of appetite and did "tent" a little, it was determined that a couple of sub-q injections for her were in order as well as for Laredo.[/]


[:"red"]Current Update:[/][:"green"] They both have eaten about a tablespoon of blueberry yogurt, a little watermelon, and a little of the Ensure/Pedialyte mix collectively today. I took the Ensure/Pedialyte mix & watermelon away earlier this morning and gave the yogurt midday. I placed their BML in the cage about 9:15PM CST and they've yet to touch it. I plan to add a very small amount of fruit & veggies later, but would prefer they eat the BML first!

I picked up 5 more days worth of Flagyl (Metronidazole) from the vet tonight and will hope, despite initial negative flotation results, any unwanted visitors playing "invisibility" games will be eliminated, if present.[/]


[:"purple"]Thanks again to all for your support and prayers![/]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Need some quick help, PLEASE!!! - 05/29/03 06:58 AM

Good luck Jeff. Sending positive thoughts your way for a quick and healthy recovery.
Posted By: Anonymous

Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 06:05 PM

Ellen: E-mail sent.

Laredo is doing much better but Kira has passed or perhaps I unknowingly murdered her. I can't type now, so I'll explain later. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 06:17 PM

Awwwwwww many glider hugs
Posted By: BeetleJuice

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 07:06 PM

Jeff,

I'm so sorry to hear about Kira. Our thoughts are with you.
Posted By: Lucy

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 07:13 PM

Oh, Jeff, I am so sorry -- I'm just shocked to hear this, and I am so sorry -- when you feel up to it, I hope you'll post about it, as (I know) it can be very therapeutic to tell the story.

My thoughts and prayers are with you and Laredo.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 07:45 PM

I'm so terribly sorry for your loss! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> I hope Laredo will continue to improve and you two can comfort each other. Remember the Bridge.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Ellen

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/01/03 07:48 PM

Jeff I got your email. You did nothing to harm her. I don't think for one min. that you could harm anything or anyone. As I told you these little ones can hide until the end the illness they have.

My thoughts and prayers are with you.
Posted By: Karin

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 02:42 AM

Jeff,

I am so so sorry...my heart is aching for your loss of Kira. Keep Laredo close to you.

Karin
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 02:45 AM

[:"green"]Jeff,
Words are so inadequate at times like this, but know that our thoughts and prayers are with you. [/]
Posted By: Judie

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 04:48 AM

Oh Jeff, so so sorry to hear about Kira passing. I have not been back to this thread as I thought Laredo was on the mend. Did not realize that his friend Kira was sick too. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

May your heart heal with time. Sending prayers to you and Laredo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" />

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 06:05 AM

Many hugs and prayers for you and Loredo. I hope everything goes well for him and I am sooo sorry about your loss. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> even tho I havent been around long, times like these still bring tears to my eyes..
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 06:16 AM

Jeff, I'm so sorry. You are in my prayers as is Laredo. Please take care. I can't see you hurting anything either. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 08:46 AM

[:"purple"]Thanks to all of you for your kindness during this difficult time! It means a great deal to me and I thank each and every one of you! I don't know exactly how to explain this quick and unexplainable turn of events other than to perhaps share the letter I composed to Ellen earlier this afternoon following Kira's passing-( or actually yesterday afternoon now ). Here is copy of the letter:

Ellen,

I'm holding Kira in my lap as I type this and she has passed. I'm so confused about this whole situation as she was the one who showed little to no sign of behavioral changes, whereas Laredo was showing clear symptoms. He has been fine with the Flagl and has regained his appetite somewhat and is playing and running around like normal. Kira took a sudden slide downhill after yesterday's-( Sat.) dose of Flagyl. I'm wondering now if I am responsible for unknowingly killing her by aspiration pneumonia or perhaps I restrained her too tightly, or something. She didn't look the same following the dosing, but was still ambulatory and feisty. When I offered her some fruit, she took a couple of pieces in her typical aggressive manner, but she usually eats what she takes. This time, she simply took a couple grape halves from me aggressively and dropped them both. I decided to leave her be and observe. I watched her while Laredo played outside the cage in the living room, but she didn't come out to play. This is typical for her, as she sometimes will venture out and other times opts to remain in cage. I didn't see her eating anything, but she seemed content and cozy snuggling up in her coconut hut at about 3 AM this morning, so I didn't want to stress her and roust her. This morning at about 10:45 or so, she was climbing beneath the feeding station in the cage and I noticed she seemed to be attempting to nibble on the paper towel beneath the plates of BML and fruits and veggies. I attempted to help her by offering a pouch to see if she would go into the pouch, but she walked to the edge of the feeding station and seemed clumsy and was hanging on by one foot when I intervened and placed her in pouch. She seemed like she was on death's door and dehydrated, so I immediately gave her one injection of a little over 3cc's of the Lactated Ringer's followed by oral feeding of Pedialyte & BML mixture by oral syringe. As she appeared to be barely clinging to life, I opted to give her another injection of ~ 2cc of LRS on opposite side from first. Then I stroked her little head and she showed a little of the subdued "feistiness", so I decided the best thing to do for her would be to give her warmth and keep a close eye on her. I placed her in a warm bonding pouch with a blankie and placed that pouch within a larger family sized pouch and then directed a 75W outdoor light directly at the pouch. It was shortly after 11 or perhaps 11:30AM when I did this and at noon, I opened the pouch to find that she was showing rigor. I scooped her out to find that she had indeed passed, holding her little right hand over her face between her eyes and just above her nose. I am beside myself now wondering if it was I who caused her demise! I keep thinking now that if I had just treated Laredo and left her alone, she would still be alive and mean as ever. I need to close this for now, as I'm too upset to keep typing. I'll talk to you soon!

Jeff


I don't know yet whether I will have a necropsy performed or not, but if so, I will certainly share the findings, if not, I will continue to keep Laredo close to me and remain thankful for all of you understanding and caring & compassinate individuals at the GC[/]
[:"green"]FAMILY[/][:"purple"] board![/]

[:"green"]Kira is now back with her former mate, Winnie! Glide in Eternal Peace <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/gliderangel.gif" alt="" /> Kira![/]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 09:20 AM

Wow Jeff...

This is so sad. I don't know what to say except dont blame yourself hun. You loved kira she has had a good life with you. Take comfort in that. You tried your best to get her better. This is another lesson to us that gliders can hide there illness well. Thank you so much for sharing your story with us. My heart is broken for you. Sending healing prayers for laredo, I am glad to hear that he is getting better. Pleae e-mail me if you just wanna talk.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> REST IN PEACE SWEET LITTLE KIRA <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Judie

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 05:39 PM

It is possible that Kira was sicker than you thought and did not catch the illness in time.

I do want to say something though about using the LR. If there is a kidney problem...LR can be dangerous to use. Has something to do with the blood being alkaline...and with LR(which is also alkaline) it will push a glider over the edge. I do not think the LR did this to your glider....but you might want to discuss use of it with your vet.

When using fluids...it is best to use the D5w....as it is normal saline with Dextrose in it. Normal Saline has life giving elements in it which an animal will loose when dehydrated...the Dextrose...is simply sugar and will keep an animal from rebounding when sugar levels in the blood are low. It is by far...the safest to give to a glider who is suffering from dehydration.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 06:09 PM

Jeff...I am crying....I am so sorry for you and Laredo. You finally gave Kira a stable and loving home, take heart knowing that. You are in my thoughts... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/02/03 06:18 PM

That is so sad. I'm very sorry. I know it is hard when we lose the things we love. I am praying for you...
chelsey and josie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/04/03 12:09 AM

Jeff, I am so sorry!!! I don't know what else I can say, except that I am sure that she had a good life with you, and knew how much she was loved, even if she had a different way of showing her love of you back.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/04/03 05:32 PM

I am shocked and saddened by this turn of events. Please know that we are all here for you and sending out prayers for you and Laredo. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
You did all that you could Jeff, and she knew she was loved. Take comfort in the fact that you were with her in her final moments.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/04/03 08:43 PM

Big Glider hugs going out to you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
At least your baby died next to you instead of all alone, that in itself I think is comforting to both you and your little <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frostyangel.gif" alt="" /> I know for me it would have been, when I lost Skitz.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Laredo much better, but Kira has passed :( - 06/05/03 02:54 PM

Jeff,
I do not think aspiration pneumonia was a factor here. I agree with everyone else...whatever infectious process she was fighting....unfortunately won. Another thing that happens is that bacteria release toxins when they are destroyed. If you only have a few bacteria in your system...you can handle it, but if you have lots of bacteria...well you can handle all the toxins that are released. She wouldn't have lived without the antibiotics, but unfortunately this might have also been the case. In the hospital setting when we have children with overwhelming sepsis (lots of bacteria) we have them on intravenous fluids and intravenous antibiotics that way we can help flush out those toxins unfortunately this isn't a good option for small creatures. And not all bacteria have endotoxins. I just do not want you to blame yourself...because I truely do not believe that is where blame belongs. Give Laredo kisses for me and here is a virtual hug for you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
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