Ditch the Repts? - Help me w/ Pros/Cons-----

Ok, so I've been using repts for about 2 years, but there are some things about them that really make me miss cages. I'm just wondering if it has been too long since I've had a cage and if I'm just not remembering all the bad things about them.

I'd like to make a pro/con list & have you guys add to it with me, so I can get input from people with repts AND peeps with cages. That way I will feel much better about my next caging choice.

I'd also like some tips about specific types of enclosures that you guys dig. Keep in mind, I'm housing 2 colonies (one family of 4, and one family of 5)

Here we go...


Repts:

Pros:
Screen can be tossed in the wash
Lightweight

Cons:
Must disassemble to clean
No drop tray (icky for gliders and peeps)
Pain in the rear to hang stuff
Can't see the gliders as well
Can't feed treats through bars
Poles are brittle and fragile (mine keep breaking)
Only parts of rept can be spot cleaned with wipes
No shelving to keep food up
Plastic absorbs smell

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Cages:

Pros:
Can feed treats through bars
Entire cage can be spot cleaned with wipes
Sturdy
Easy to hang most cage items
Drop tray
Shelving

Cons:
Heavy
Awkward to carry
Must be taken outside or to the tub to thouroughly clean (this is hard for me)
Certain coatings absorb smell (i.e: PVC)

I did both the cages and repts and for me, cages win handsdown. I found the smell was way worse in the rept, and I hated taking it apart every few days to wash it (and if I didn't do it by day three.....stinky! lol) I love my cages and for me, I would never go back to a rept for a full time cage (but they are cool for 'playgrounds', as you can even go inside with them). JMHO.

What cages do you like the best - to add to my info pool...

I have four different cages. Exel, J&M Exotics, the flimsier flight cage and a cage from Cages America (I believe that was the name, I could look it up). I really like the Exel cages, although I have a 36" one from J&M I really like as well (it has this little latch the keeps the grate and tray from sliding out. You just turn it sideways to take them out, but the gliders can't push them out.) The Cages America cage is HUGE! It is easy to clean by hand, but because it has an ornate roof, it will not fit through the door without removing the roof (which would be way too much work). But at almost 5'10", I can get my whole body inside it and reach every nook and cranny! lol I really love this cage and the gliders (four live in it) have TONS of space. That was my most expensive cage, but worth it.

I love the ease of cleaning of the rept screen, but the rept sleeves are a pain to put back on for me. (I have rings tied to them where I need them, so they need to go back in the same spot or else I'll have the whole thing covered with rings eventually!) I only use my rept for travel, but do think they get way smellier way quicker.

I love my wire cage except for having to lug it downstairs to take it outside to power wash off. I built my own out of Klubertanz wire so I was able to make it a size that works for me and the gliders.

Wire cage pros:
-Multiple and smaller doors (don't have to open the entire front)
-Can mount branches and heavier/bulkier items to the cage
-Can hang stuff pretty much anywhere, not just at pole locations

Rept pros:
-Stealth Wheel mounts wherever you want them with a custom PVC frame (better than those brittle poles anyway!)
-Food/messes stay in the cage rather than on the walls

Buying a custom reptarium from Teresa (dancing) would fix almost all your cons. I prefer cages just because of the look and I don't mind moving my cages outside for wash. The heavy ones are on wheels and the other ones are easy for me to move.

What Teresa does on custom reptariums to fix certain issues you brought up:
Builds in a floor which I believe is pretty easy to wash
Her polls are the sturdy ones from the hardware store GOOD LUCK BREAKING THAT!!!
And she builds in shelving..

OK just realized there was more to the cons but just wanted to show you there was an inbetween for you!

Ohhh and with all the extra poles.. either using the reptarium gear she can sew for you or shower rings .. makes hanging stuff a breeze!!!

Dang after reading all my thoughts on Teresa's reptariums Im gonna have to start buying me some !!!

I know Teresa's rept are great. If I do decide to stay with repts, I will def get a couple of hers!

Trust me, I know a little bit about rept gear and I know it gets smelly REAL fast, so I try to use shower curtain rings or links, but then your items move along the poles, they never stay - which is unfortunate for hammocks and other things that should stay in one place.

Also, I've been hesitant to put shelving (or wire of any type) in my repts because they snag so easily (especially if you machine wash them).

I tried to make a drop tray out of PVC pipe and hardware cloth, but the hardware cloth stretches and ends up sitting right on the floor after a couple days.

Keep the thoughts and ideas coming - And I want to hear about your favorite cages!

I'm kind of having the same dilemma as you, Gina. My reptarium is starting to drive me crazy, but I don't think I could get a cage that would satisfy my requirements.

I made my own frame (520) so I put the hardware cloth floor in. In theory, it's nice that they aren't walking in their droppings.. but mine just go between the "floor" and the rept cover and play down there anyway (I don't know why they want to be down there so badly ). The homemade - or made my Dancing - frames are WAY better than factory frames.

But, it's smells. It's the mesh that smells and I can't seem to make it go away. It smells right after I'm done washing it! Hanging it outside helps a bit, but not for long. And I can clean the poles right in my room, which is upstairs.

I won't downsize my cage, which means I would have a lot of trouble finding a cage this size. Even if I did find one, I couldn't fit it through my door. And even if I could do that, there's no way I'd be able to carry it down my stairs. I don't even want to think how I'd get it outside to clean it.

Plus, my zippers are a pain in the neck. I have a 260 for a travel cage, and had a nice surprise on my way to the 1000 Islands. One end of my 520 has a problem with the zipper, so I can only open that one halfway.

I have a feeling I'll need to replace my covers soon, too. They're starting to get some spot that are going to become holes.

I'm getting fed up, but I don't think there's really a whole lot I can do about it.

Ok, so here's where we are so far - I had forgotten about the messy walls!

Repts:

Pros:
Screen can be tossed in the wash
Lightweight
Can get a custom PVC frame (takes care of pole, drop tray, and shelving issues)
Food/messes stay in the cage rather than on the walls

Cons:
A bit wobbly for active gliders
Must disassemble to clean
No drop tray (can be remedied with a custom frame)
Pain in the rear to hang stuff
Can't see the gliders as well
Can't feed treats through bars
Poles are brittle and fragile (can be remedied with a custom frame)
Only parts of rept can be spot cleaned with wipes
No shelving to keep food up (can be remedied with a custom frame)
Plastic absorbs smell - smellier faster than a cage
No small doors - must open entire front
Restricted to hanging things at pole locations
Can't mount branches or nesting boxes (things with bolts)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cages:

Pros:
Can feed treats through bars
Entire cage can be spot cleaned with wipes
Sturdy
Easy to hang most cage items
Drop tray
Shelving
Multiple and smaller doors (don't have to open the entire front)
Can mount branches and heavier/bulkier items to the cage
Can hang stuff pretty much anywhere, not just at pole locations
Certain coatings do not absorb smell (i.e.: Powder coating)

Cons:
Heavy
Awkward to carry (can be put on wheels)
Must be taken outside or to the tub to thouroughly clean (this is hard for me)
Certain coatings absorb smell (i.e: PVC)
Messy walls and floors (can be fixed with drop cloth/back drop)

You forgot the part that repts can be chewed through....and if you have more then one glider, it can be hard to open the zipper and not have escapees (at least that was my experience, anyway...lol)

Are all these on ebay, or do they have their own websites? I googled Cages America, but came up with nothing...

I had a cage for the first 10 months of having gliders then switched to repts (over 6 years ago). They don't make the poles as sturdy as they used to, and over time they got brittle anyway. I just made my own frames recently and it is deceptively easy (wish I had done it way ealier).

I can hang anything in my rept and I hate rept gear, which is why I hardly ever have to tear down my cage (they can climb the pvc poles without fleece). I use baby links and fleece braided ropes to criss cross over the top, so they're super easy to snap off and toss in the wash and I can hang heavy stuff too (where the ropes cross).

I use puppy pads under my repts that are changed weekly and vacuum out the bottom of the cage, which really doesn't need it very often (but I do it every to every other day). Since I started using glider kitchens, most all of the mess is kept in there.

Anyway, if you were looking to keep your repts, there would be some ideas, but you have to do what you like taking care of the best because you are the one doing it. From the look of the lists, cage is winning!

I will find the website, that cage I did not get on ebay. Let me look.....

I have a cage and for me it's the ticket...it's on wheels, I wheel it right through my French doors to power wash it and it holds up well....plus Gizmo can be a chewer so I wouldn't trust him in a Rept.

Holy cow girl! Maybe my guys are messy eaters - they won't stay in a kitchen, so I have to vaccum daily! And I line with fleece, so everything sticks to the fleece - so that has to get changed too. But then, they burrow under the fleece on the floor, which gets the mess under the fleece = ARG!!!

If you cut the flece a little larger than your rept and tuck it under the PVC poles then they won't be able to burrow under it.
I do that then just change the fleece as needed.

Two steps ahead of you babe - they can pull it out! For right now I've made a drop tray that doesn't really function as a drop tray, but it does keep them out of the fleece...

LOVE my Repts and I would never go back. For me it was all about the cleaning. I was TERRIBLE with it. My cage was huge and would take me 6-8 hours to clean. I was lucky if I did it every few months. Oh the guilt I felt. Now with Repts it's no big deal to clean (although I'm still quite bad for it, lol) I use 2- 260 and they are in my living room at either end of my couch and it takes over a month before you notice any kind of smell at all. And I have breeding males in both!! I use braided ropes as well and have no problem hanging things (mine is custom built). I also built a floor and yes they do go underneath, but oh well. To feed treats I just open up the screen on the side a little bit and stick my hand in (or they pop their noses out, lol) Works GREAT!

http://www.americas-pet-store.com/details/prodid/534.html


Ok, this is the cage I have (I got it in all white). It is easy to clean and is HUGE!!!!! My family of four are in here and have tons of room!

I like that one - TY! I wish it were a bit bigger - I just hate going down in size since they've been in 260s for so long.

I also like this one from Martin's cages - it's 30 x 30 x 60 and about the same priceas the one you suggested. It doesn't have a stand, and it isn't exactly pretty, but it looks like a good sturdy cage.

http://www.martinscages.com/images/full/lsg-580.jpg

In an ideal world (where I had money), I would SO get them these, but $899 each? Whew! Maybe once I find a decent job - LOL!

http://birdcages4less.com/page/B/PROD/Aviaries/PA6000

Or if I were REALLY rich - I would get this setup. It's 2 aviaries put together with a safety catch so that neither colony could get to the other. BTW, that's the price for JUST the safety catch, add about $4000 for the 2 cages that go with it!

http://birdcages4less.com/page/B/PROD/Aviaries/PA6003D

Three of mine are super clean, but my trio is a nightmare! Ever since I started using the glider kitchens, though, the whole inside of the kitchen is thick with food (bleh!!!) but they sit inside and eat, then go out and play, so I just don't have a big mess in the main cage very often. They are really messy with their mealworms, but are all fed in separate cages (and none fed in the big cage) so I dump them out after they are finished. I have to admit, though, I do love that half of my kids are clean freaks!!!

Maybe mine can have a talkin-to with yours and straighten them out! (Of course it hasn't worked yet with the other cage.)

Wow, PLEASE - if Monster doesn't like something I feed her, she throws it! I have food stuck to every wall of those repts all the way up to the middle! When I wash the screens, I have to spend like a half an hour cleaning out the washing machine of little rehydrated bits of veggies.

If I put a kitchen in, they just carry the food out to eat it - I think my sugs are claustraphobic! OR, out to get me!

After using BetsyCC's cages, reptariums, a cage from Exotic Nutrition, and a powder-coated cage from an unknown origin, I LOVE my cages built with Klubertanz pvc-coated wire HANDS-DOWN! The Klubertanz wire, in my opinion, is the best all around. It gives you flexibility to build your dream cage, with size, height, number of doors and shelves, etc. Sure, they are heavy, sturdy and very secure, therefore I have total peace of mind that my gliders do not escape from the cages.

So what if the gliders make a mess on the walls and floors? Toddlers are the same way.

I have built many cages using the pvc-coated wire from Klubertanz and quite a few members here have contacted me for assistance.

I built a few 3'x2'x6' cages. I like to put in three shelves and one door big enough to reach in to hang toys from the ceiling of the cage. We have a 4'x2'x6' cage made out of Klubertanz wire and that cage has three small doors and I would like to modify that to one door, so I can reach in to hang toys with much more ease.

Reptariums are nice for travel use. I wouldn't use them as permanent homes for various reasons.
*Disassembling and reassembling the cage and poles when washing
*Zipper coming undone the next morning
*Screen shell stinking so bad
*Not being able to see the gliders play as well as I can see them play in the pvc-coated wire cages
*Hanging stuff in reptariums are a headache and very time-consuming, considering the number of gliders we have
*Waste of money when finding out gliders are chewers

Most of all, I have a great peace of mind that my gliders are safe and secure in their cages. I have yet to have a glider escape from their cage. Knock on wood!

One more thing about the pvc-coating of the wire...it absorbs shock of the gliders jumping all over it. I had a powder-coated cage that came with a glider which was rehomed with us (the cage with unknown origin-don't know where the cage came from). I left her in the cage for about three months for quarantine purposes and I was still working on introducing her to my brababy. OMG! That cage was horrendous! Keep in mind that I am hearing impaired and have a cochlear implant, that cage produced so much racket it drove me absolutely bonkers! I just could NOT wait to get Moogie OUT of that awful cage which had just started to rust and paired up with Cuddles, my brababy. Once Moogie finally accepted Cuddles as her new mate, I tossed that cage (used as a spare) into the basement! Whew!

I LOVE my Klubertanz cages! Hands down!


Jen

Gina, wow I never thought you would be thinking of switching away from repts … lol…
I now have cages like this .. http://cgi.ebay.com/Bird-ferret-chinchil...1QQcmdZViewItem
And love them I can roll them through the house right out side to clean … I have most everything zip tied together and pressure wash them … still can take a few hours but this works the best for me …
When I need new cages next time I am thinking I might get the Klubertanz wire and make them … but I will really have to be motivated to try that … and you could build a platform for them to sit on with rollers …

Thanks Pix - I considered building a cage, but I wouldn't know how to do it without using wood. My gliders LOVE anything made of wood - they would gnaw it to pieces within a month!

Have you ever built a cage without any wood?

Yeah, that was my first thought! WOW! Never did I think Gina would sway away from the repts!

John, anytime you need help with motivation or with building the cages with Klubertanz wire, just holler! I will do a fantastic job on ya!


Jen

I know John, but boy the smell is bad & I JUST got new screens a couple months ago!

Plus, my guys play rough & the poles keep cracking, I'm afraid one day the whole thing will topple over on them!

Those cages you showed me are a GREAT price for something so large - and it's only 16" shorter, which isn't great, but isn't that big a deal either. Though, it is 30 x 18 where the repts are 30 x 30 - that's another 14". So, my math is generally bad, but that's about 3.5 cu ft lost, right?

Hmmmm...

All of my cages are built without any wood! Don't need 'em! The wire is so sturdy it does not need any framing.


Jen

Gina, i belive the Klubertanz is strong and does not need wood supports .. i think Megi made some of these cages ...

Yes, Megi made some cages with Klubertanz wire. She got the building instructions from me....


Jen

Gina, I love Martins cages. I have been using them since I got my first glider. And they are so nice to work with. They will put in extra shelfs for you or ramps and doors.

Mine show no wear and tear. The drop pans are great. They can't reach their little hands down that far.

Gina, it would be smaller coming form the repts, that is for sure,,, but was bigger from what i had prior...

that is the main resaon that when it is time for new cages, if i can motivate myself i will do the Klubertanz wire, i really think it is the only way i am going to get bigger while still being able to wheel them out for cleaning ... and not having to morgage the house to get new bigger cages ... lol...

i think the Martins cage is made form Klubertanz wire ..

Thanks Ellen, that helps a lot!

I agree!

I think everyone has their perfect cage and once they find it, they'll never leave it. For me, it's repts. I LOVE my repts, mostly because carrying around cages for cleaning used to hurt my back so bad I couldn't do anything else for days.

I make my own custom frames, and IMO that helps a lot. I'd probably go crazy with the original frames. My custom frames are the thicker heavier PVC, and I make some cross bars and a grid at the top. Then I add eyescrews all over the place- I usually use at least 15-16 per cage. I use pear hooks to hang plastic chain all the way across, usually in more than one place, and I can hang whatever I want. I also make my frames into three parts- left, right, top, and then I have two plain poles for the bottom connectors. I make the left, right and top into panels by hitting them with a rubber mallet, then drilling into the fittings and using small screws to hold it all together. Then when I wash that rept, I only have a couple pieces to worry about what goes where when it goes back together. The first rept I did with extra bits was such a puzzle when I washed it, that I gave up and just replaced most of it. I also put in a T fitting so the Stealth wheels are built in- it's quieter and easier to clean, because the wheel just gets washed with the frames.

I use either laundry soap and oxyclean, or laundry soap and normal bleach on my covers. I wash in hot water twice, then rinse twice, the last time adding just a tad bit of fabric softener to make sure all the soap gets broken up. I do 2-3 covers at a time. I don't think the covers smell any more than the used toys do. For the frames I use either simple green, a bleach/water mix, or my favorite is multi-purpose windex.

Some photos I just took today of a custom 130 rept I made- I cut a 260 in half and added a new floor from pet screen. Our ceilings in the glider room aren't quite high enough for stacking two 175s, and this was a perfect solution. The only thing I don't like, is after I vaccuum out the bottom, the pet screen tends to still have a lot of stuff stuck in it. The regular rep floors I don't have a problem with. I'll probably just fix my problem by turning the cover upside down lol.

Top with toys (it really doesn't feel as crowded as it looks!)-
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s240/Helen1978/130rept063008a.jpg

Full view-
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s240/Helen1978/130rept063008b.jpg

Eyescrews-
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s240/Helen1978/130rept063008c.jpg

Normally I have something in the bottom corner so it's not as empty, but not at the moment, I need to add another eyescrew or two for my normal setup.

While the Martins cages are built with the same type of wire Klubertanz sells, the Martins cages are overpriced, in my opinion. Building your own cages with supplies from Klubertanz is very self-rewarding! There is so much you can do when building your own! That is the beauty of building your own cages! You get to decide how big, how tall, how big/many door(s) and shelves, and put it together!

Just holler if you need help with building a cage.


Jen

I've had experience both with the cage John mentioned and cages from Martins.

I had a few Martins cages when I had rats. I think the ones for gliders are made from different wire but regardless, they are well built, easy to assemble and actually look very nice when decorated. I would sit and admire my cage after it was washed and redecorated. Also, they are fairly lightweight for carrying purposes but stable enough that they won't tip over. You could always get some kind of wood stand to set it on if you wanted it elevated.

I use the cage John mentioned for my current gliders. I absolutely love it! It's very easy to clean, spacious, has shelves you can rearrange, large doors with a nice locking mechanism, is sturdy and wheels around nicely. My only beef with it is that I would've liked more horizontal bars, especially on the top of the cage so their toys and such don't just slide around. But I plan on purchasing some landware cloth, cut to size and will zip tie it to the top of the cage so I have more options. ;]

Good luck in your quest!

I want to go to a rept soon for one major reason - bugs! I have come into my suggie room and found a HUGE bee before. Or a huge spider on the wall. I think to myself "what if it got in with them???". Thus why I want a rept. I don't want anything in there that's not invited

I also think it would be cleaner around the cage - my girls manage to poo fling like you wouldn't believe! Other than that, it's sixes for me. HTH

Girl, I just don't know that I'd ever do it - I'd probably order all the stuff, then it would sit around my house gathering dust. Building a cage just seems so ominous!

To bad there isn't someone here that builds customs - that would be way cool!

I have had ant issues in my repts, which is a problem I never used to have with my cages (they were on stands) - but yes, they do keep the bigger bugs out!

Gina, I can build the cage for you. The problem is transporting the cage to you. I once shipped a cage that I built and the shipping charges were astronomical! The shipping charges were almost as much as the cage itself!


Jen

That's sweet of you Jen, but ya, logistics would be a nightmare I'm afraid!

A solution I found for the smell with repts is this:

- wash screen weekly AND
- use the appropriate softray liner with CareFresh in it
- cover CareFresh with fleece that is firmly tucked under the bottom poles

The fleece is easy to sweep/dustbuster every couple of days and keeps the suggies out of the CareFresh. The liner hugs the frame and makes sure that fleece can't be pulled out from under the poles. The CareFresh keeps everything smelling clean for up to 10 days in my 260. I just wash the fleece and liner at the same time, then replace the CareFresh when putting the screen back on.

I use baby rings and vines too for hanging. I also fasten fleece bridges and scarves from one side to the other (using baby rings) and hang stuff from them. I bought fleece rugs at Walmart (which are wonderful!), put two in the bottom and just take them out and shake them every day, washing once a week. When I wash the cover, I take fleece toys off the baby rings and toss in with the cover. It's a piece of cake to hang stuff back up. I only have one glider in there right now but won't have more than two, so I don't have much of a mess or smell. I use a glider kitchen so I don't have a food mess. The glider kitchen and fleece rugs help keep the mess down immensely. It's the only rept I have but if I could afford it, I'd LOVE to replace most my cages with repts. The only two cages I wouldn't replace would be the big cage I have and the cage with chewers in it.

Ya, but how do you guys keep the baby links and shower curtain rings fron sliding across the poles?

I don't know, it just seems like there's too much involved with the logistics of repts. That, and I think I have exceptionally smelly gliders too! I swear that rept smells as soon as I set it back up!

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my reps......
I wash them every week, if I'm bored, shucks I'll wash twice a week.....It's such a breeze!!!!
I don't wash the pouches or toys every week tho. I vacuum the bottoms everyday....A true Slave.....I use rep gear on some of the poles not all.. .only because my babies like playing with the fringe. I don't miss dragging the cages to the front porch
And I can control my urge to give treats every time I pass by them, unlike the when they were hanging on the bars with those big beautiful eyes, wanting mommie to give them a treat soooooooo bad!!!! Stuff is a breeze to hang useing braided vines and chains......LOVE OUR REPS!!!

I have two going across (each way) and one diagonally. If they are tight, the links stay in place and I put an extra link at each corner of the diagonal (or some other hook) to keep those in place.

Here are some pics I have of mine (since I don't think that made any sense at all! )

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee310/sugarlope/Forum%20pics/DSC03733.jpg

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee310/sugarlope/Forum%20pics/DSC03739.jpg

Almost forgot, I wash my cage covers with detergent and vinegar and though there is still a musk smell, they don't smell bad.

I use the double stack flight cages these days and LOVE them. Super easy to move around (they are on wheels), plenty of space for my gliders, and saves on room. Which we all need!!

I used to use repts as you are well aware with all the rept gear you made for me, however, I just couldnt handle how fast they smelled up no matter how you tried to handle it. The rept material just held in the urine and marking smell and Heaven forbid if you had to skip a day of cleaning. But what really made me realize I would not recommend a rept anylonger was when I lost my Joey Mac at the pet store, while glider sitting for Jenn. He wasnt a chewer and neither was basheba, but guess what, new enviorment, new smells, they chewed got out and Mac has never been found.

Bottom line, you just cant trust them. With a cage, MOST the time, if they get out it is due to HUMAN error. With a rept, even your older gliders that never chew, may decide to one day and that is all they need....one day....

I agree with Peggy wholeheartedly!

I used the reptariums one weekend during SGGA one year, I believe it was back in 2002. I was shocked by how much the repts smelled over just one weekend and I just could not fathom using the repts full-time, which is why I love my gliders' cages built with Klubertanz wire. I have yet to have a glider escape from this type of cage. <knock on wood>

I am not a big fan of reptariums for several reasons. Sure, cleaning is a breeze and the gliders LOVE it, but it does not suit me well. I have a few reptariums stored away, for back-up.


Jen