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popping joeys-new breeders please read

Posted By: hwh4ev

popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 04:32 PM

it has come to my attention that some breeders "pop their joeys" meaning that when the joeys are still in pouch and not detached from the nipple the breeder will move the joey around to see the sex of the joey or whatever.

this is a dangerous practice as the joeys may not be able
to get back on the nipple, so hand feeding is required.
the mother gets engorged with milk and cannot feed the joeys as it is to painful. so you will be feeding this
joey every hour on the hour so it will survive and prob.
have to take mama glider to the vets.

any new breeders out there that are told how to do this should be aware of what could happen as these joeys could and do die. for what- our impatience to see what the sex or what ever the joey is.

let the joeys cook(stay in pouch) they will come out when
they are ready.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 05:19 PM

Oh that is terrible!! As much as I wanted to hold my joeys, I waited until they were out of mommies pouch on their own before I actually touched them.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 05:23 PM

Wow. To me common sense says to leave them alone. I guess common sense isn't so common is it? shakehead
Posted By: sugmama77

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 05:53 PM

Oh my gosh I didnt know people did this, thats so horrible. I was so excited to see the joey the last thing I was thinking was the sex of him. WOW Some people!
Posted By: IslandGliders

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 06:07 PM

Yikes. I hope no one is really doing this. It makes me sick.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 06:16 PM

hannah, yes some breeders are doing it and also telling other breeders how to do this.

this is why i started this post. it never even occured to me that a breeder would do this but we all learn at the expense and deaths of the joeys.

i cannot say what i feel on gc but i will say- that this practice should be stopped by all breeders who really care abt. their gliders.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: IslandGliders

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 06:22 PM

Sorry Nancy, I didn't mean to imply that I was doubting you. I'm just... in disbelief, I guess.

Why endanger the lives of joeys just so you can get a peek? cry
Posted By: HagridsHut

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 06:33 PM

cry tant cry
Posted By: ChrissysGliderz

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 07:04 PM

I had no idea that this what being done and it is very disturbing to me!!!!! I mean is the only reason breeders are doing this is so that they can advertise and take deposits early? Never count your chicks before they hatch tant This is so dangerous and joeys are so much work why put the mother and joeys through the stress and put them in danger. I have no idea which breeders are practicing this but I want to STAY clear of them ERRRRRRR!!!!!
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 07:15 PM

I have never done anything like this. Honestly, it had never even crossed my mind to try to do something like this. If the joeys are that close to OOP, you only need to wait another few days. If you've already waited so long, why rush it at the end? It's a few days...not a few years.

I didn't know this was something that a lot of breeders did. This has got to be something that the minority of breeders attempt as I've never heard of it being done until recently.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 08:09 PM

I am NOT one of them either, I can't imagine doing that to my mommas or joeys.
I also cannot wrap my brain around reasoning, you do not shange the color or sex by seeing it a week or 2 early and the $$$ for that glider isn't YOURS until the glider is in new parents possession, so in reality you what? get to sit on the deposit money for an extra 2 weeks.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 08:20 PM

I see no reason to do this either. If the joey is hanging OOP, sometimes you can determine the sex, if not just wait a few more days. Nothings going to change by waiting!

Do they do this to advertise them sooner? That wouldn't work for me as my joeys seem to always be several weeks OOP before I post about them! roflmao
Posted By: ssuver

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 08:21 PM

This is insane. These poor joey's.
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 08:37 PM

I do not do this but have heard of a couple that do this with their own gliders. It also may cause joeys to be canabalized due to stressing the mom out .I won't even check for baby bumps due to stressing mom out while pregnant.
I am a very impatient person when it does come to seeing my babies come oop. But I would never endanger them in anyway shape or form.
Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 09:31 PM

Alright. Common sense and patience will prevail. Leave the mother's alone. It is endangering the joeys.

You will see them soon enough. What is the rush?

Thanks for posting this Nancy. Good job.
Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 09:32 PM

Originally Posted By: StitchsMom
I have never done anything like this. Honestly, it had never even crossed my mind to try to do something like this. If the joeys are that close to OOP, you only need to wait another few days. If you've already waited so long, why rush it at the end? It's a few days...not a few years.

I didn't know this was something that a lot of breeders did. This has got to be something that the minority of breeders attempt as I've never heard of it being done until recently.
Not a lot of breeders. Just a handful that I have been hearing about more and more. It's just not smart. Leave the joeys and moms be.
Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 09:35 PM

Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
I see no reason to do this either. If the joey is hanging OOP, sometimes you can determine the sex, if not just wait a few more days. Nothings going to change by waiting!

Do they do this to advertise them sooner? That wouldn't work for me as my joeys seem to always be several weeks OOP before I post about them! roflmao
Only advantage I see is to sell them quicker. At the risk of the joeys lives. Tsk Tsk.

shakehead
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 10:03 PM

I've been offered advice from a couple breeders, on how to pop out joeys to see the sex and coloring. I saw absolutely reason to do this and I like the anticipation of waiting! There are enough rejected joeys, without creating a situation.
Posted By: sugmama77

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 10:12 PM

To me it felt like Christmas time waiting to see my little joey. I didnt care if it was a boy or a girl, just hoped he was healthy and if his mom and dad was going to take care of him. I was scared to touch him for about a week. LOL Poor little babies and even more those poor mommies losing there babies and such. Makes me cry thinking about it.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 10:34 PM

I've heard about people doing this, too...

So upsetting. frown
Posted By: Chris_R

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/18/11 10:47 PM

Ive been told how to do this by another breeder...but it was NOT to determine the sex, it was to take a sneak peek at color (didnt feel comfortable even doing that)...in order to determine the sex not only would you have to push the joey over to the pouch opening (and pray that you are pushing on the butt and not the head), but then you would have to lift it up to determine the sex, thus HUGE risk of detaching it off the nipple as joeys are face down into the teat with backs up....idiotic in my book
Posted By: tbull

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 12:13 AM

This seems to me that there is a HUGE risk of causing internal and brain damage, man handling such a tiny joey. cry
Posted By: cryingoutloud37

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 12:14 AM

This is really bizarre to me. I am confused regardless of the reason. Why would you do this to find out color? Babies IP usually don't even have color or color up until they are ready to come oop. Is this for untame Momma gliders? Because I can get all the peeks I need to by just giving momma gliders some treats. I have seen almost all my joey's weeks before they came oop with no POPPING INVOLVED. WHO is buying these joey's and when did the demand be come so Great. I have seen many beautiful joeys on here for sale for excellant prices THAT JUST DO NOT SELL...So I don't understand the sudden demand to know these things weeks before OOP?
Posted By: acook1021

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 01:30 AM

It is just sad frown That some breeders resort to this. I am nervous to clip my gliders nails when they have babies in pouch. I even move all of their sleeping pouches lower in the cage. I am very terrified of losing a joey or harming one of my mommies. I would never dream of doing ANYTHING that could potentially harm any of my gliders.
I am at a loss for words.........
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 01:32 AM

LOL no poping needed with my retired momma Carmella and Esme!!! They are so bonded to me. They would lay on there backs and just ler the pouch hang open so anything at the opening was mine to see. I swear it was as if they were saying look what i got cooking!! Persephone will let her pouch open sometimes but most the time she keeps it sealed shut and makes me wait sooo long lol. This little boy she has now i swear was detatched at least 5 days before i found him off the nipple and out of the pouch!! At 17 grams and eyes open a few days later lol.
Posted By: cryingoutloud37

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 01:36 AM

Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
LOL no poping needed with my retired momma Carmella and Esme!!! They are so bonded to me. They would lay on there backs and just ler the pouch hang open so anything at the opening was mine to see. I swear it was as if they were saying look what i got cooking!! Persephone will let her pouch open sometimes but most the time she keeps it sealed shut and makes me wait sooo long lol. This little boy she has now i swear was detatched at least 5 days before i found him off the nipple and out of the pouch!! At 17 grams and eyes open a few days later lol.


That is what I was saying my mommas just let it all hang out there for the world to see. One of my moms even let naked ones hang out really pink naked and really small.....I was so nervous but she kept them attached and they turned out to be CG and WFB. So this popping thing doesn't even sound necessary.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 02:10 AM

Hey, you know that old saying

"Good things come to those who WAIT"?????

Wait it out!!!!! As worried AND excited I was when my Lethe had her joey IP...there was no way I was going to mess with her belly/pouch area...I don't care if she opened that pouch with both paws to show me (LOL would'nt that be a trip tho??).

You can ask Melissa (ssdreamsicles)...she told me several times to gently feel Lethe's pouch area to see if there was one or 2 joeys...my first thought was "NO WAY". That is how paranoid I was/am with IP joeys...

Let nature take its course....and maybe breeders should lean more towards waiting lists instead of deposits for "specific" joeys.
Posted By: dizzyblue

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 02:47 AM

So sad!!
Maybe those people should read the goose who laid golden eggs.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 04:33 AM

Oh No! I had never heard of that. I must admit I prefer my joeys well done.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 04:38 AM

I am not aware of any breeders who do this? It is a very invasive technique by the way you are describing it!
Posted By: 1daddyglider1

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 12:27 PM

I would never do this to my momma, daddy, or the baby sugar glider. It is very dangerous to the IP joey and stressful to the mom.
Althought I would never "POP" a joey out to look at sex or color. I have seen some "under cooked" joeys hanging out of moms pouch as she was cleaning them, but she knows how to move them around. I have also had hairless joeys that were left in box by both parents and I call them pinkies. They were raised fine by the parents without any problem. I was told by another breeder that this was an unusual occurance, maybe because my gliders at that time, the suggies were having 4-6 sets or litters of babies. So maybe mom dropped early to make more room. Miss butters even had one of her two babies that had no gray color on it's back but had it hanging out for cleaning. There wasn't any fur on it either, it looked like a leu baby when they come out all pink in color. I have a few pics that I have on our table to show the differences of how joeys can look when out of pouch for new owners or breeders so they don't sell at the eight week mark from anything that is detached. Maybe Peggy's new diet will have more joeys and might see more of early detached joeys, and in my opinion need to inform the new breeders how to start or reconize fully cooked joeys.
Also maybe we should add a warning on our websites about rubbing moms belly, or "popping joeys" for a look, or pulling open moms pouch to peek in. It's a sad day for joeys when breeders do this to their moms and baby sugar gliders.

Here are some pics of moms hanging their joeys out.

The stain on my finger is cricket guts. lol





Art
Posted By: mommiex5_314

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 01:18 PM

omg..ppl really do this? how cruel...omg...
Posted By: Jessica

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 01:24 PM

Yes, It is said to hear that someone/more than one person is doing this. There are so many risks.

The only time I can tell what sex a joey will be is if they are hanging oop like Art's photos above. And when they are close to being oop, is the only time my trio lets them show!

It is very sad, for everyone.

Patience is a virtue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 02:17 PM

Wow Art, those are some pretty fantastic pictures!

As for the topic of "Popping" I think it's disgusting. Why would you even think about doing it in the first place? The joey will come out when it/the mom is ready. Waiting list is way better than taking a deposit so soon. I wouldn't even put a deposit on a Joey that young. I'd be too afraid something would happen before it even got a chance to be OOP.
Posted By: tjlong

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 03:02 PM

I'm definitely anxious to see what is going to come out of my moms but popping a joey out just to get a quick peek just isn't worth the risk.

My moms get to let me know when I can look. When joeys are hanging out I will sometimes hold mom and look around in hopes I'll see the sex. Obviously at that point the color can be seen too.

I have some newer moms who have tiny little joeys with virtually no hair hanging out. I don't even touch those babies until they grow a bit more. Just not worth potentially losing those precious little ones!
Posted By: Cora

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/19/11 03:55 PM

I must live under a rock or not be buds with these breeders using this practice. Either way, I like the anticipation of it all, the mammas know better than I how to take care of their joeys, so I would never rock that boat!!!
Posted By: ssdreamsicles

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 12:29 AM

LOL Stef i thought i was going to have to fly down there to feel her myself!!
Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 01:34 AM

Verbena just a few days ago laying on her back "showing off" her joeys to me. Her grandmother Brianna has done the same thing many times. It's ok if they want to show you, but please, don't pop the joeys yourself.





Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 01:51 AM

LOL Melissa...I know I know...I was so nervous I didnt want Lethe to pick up on THAT particular vibe.

And altho I'm a little more "seasoned" than I was when I discovered Lethe with a joey IP....you can bet next time, I'll be just as worried, anxious and nervous all at the same time...but PATIENT as well...I'll know the sex and markings of her future joeys in due time.

I really really hope this impatient behavior stops and please remember, like Cora said up there...mommy's know best and let THEM do their motherly duties!!!
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 02:05 AM

buttercup, "... motherly duties" that is cute. i like that and it so true.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 03:35 AM

My first set of joeys just came oop last week.Now, obviously because this was my first litter I did ALOT of research and still doing research lol and almost all of the sites I had looked at always stated that you had to be careful with the mother because you could cause the joeys to detach. I just can't even begin to understand why someone would ever take the risk of popping a joey out just to see the sex when eventually they will find out soon anyway.Honestly, the genders of my babies didn't even cross my mind. I was to excited that I just had babies! I didn't care what they were.I don't know I just don't agree with this method at all. Thanks Nancy for posting and showing everyone how dangerous this could be to joeys.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 05/20/11 04:03 AM

Reason they take the chance: "won't happen to me syndrome"

I will use drunk drivers as an example:
1-NO WAY, even one sip means NO driving
2-Only had a couple, I'm fine to drive
3-I'm just a little buzzed, I can drive fine buzzed
4-I actually drive better drunk

They think it will never happen to them because they know what they're doing and how to do it
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/13/11 07:17 PM

bumping this for new breeders.

we should have a sticky on this subject.

thank you,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: hpyhwn2003

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/13/11 08:51 PM

shakehead Never did I even think of disturbing a mama this way. Gosh let her tell you when you can see the joeys. My mamas like others shown have let me peek when they were ready. Never did I try to move their pouch or the joeys just so I could see what they were. As stated already wait a couple of weeks then it's safe for both mom and joey to find out what it is.
Posted By: Faerie

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/13/11 08:57 PM

Personally I like being surprised! I would never disturb a baby just to see what color/sex it is.
Posted By: lilangels

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/13/11 11:51 PM

When my baby griz was 1st showing out of pouch he was almost hairless. He stayed attached to mom's nipple for a full week before detaching and letting me see what he was. I swear it was the hardest wait I have ever had...lol. I was dying to know boy or girl but would have never ever taken a chance of delodging him from his nipple to find out sooner than i had a right to know. Now mommy is again expecting but twins this time. I am sooo excited but will avoid even touching her belly much because I don't want anything to happen to my little babies.
Posted By: anjill_tree

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/14/11 02:04 AM

I am a nurse, and I would read about females getting infections in their pouche. To me, it tells me that something may of been introduced to or near the pouche that did not belong( possibly someones fingers? ) I can wait to see what comes out of the pouch, that is part of the excitement for me. I LET NATURE takes its course and just wait.
Posted By: GlidersNW

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/27/11 08:09 AM

I'd never do this...I've heard of people doing it. A good friend of mine knows someone that did this and lost joeys from it. It's a horrid thing to do. I won't even handle my joeys till I know they have been completely oop for about 2 days. then Istart to handle them. I'm new to the breeding thing...but I did EXTENSIVE research before deciding to do this. I read the joey information on suz site over and over before commiting to this venture. Now that I have had a couple litters of Joeys. I am very glad I did and did the research to support it first.
Posted By: GlidersNW

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/27/11 08:10 AM

I'd never do this...I've heard of people doing it. A good friend of mine knows someone that did this and lost joeys from it. It's a horrid thing to do. I won't even handle my joeys till I know they have been completely oop for about 2 days. then Istart to handle them. I'm new to the breeding thing...but I did EXTENSIVE research before deciding to do this. I read the joey information on suz site over and over before commiting to this venture. Now that I have had a couple litters of Joeys. I am very glad I did and did the research to support it first.
Posted By: Meg_n_Von

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/27/11 08:45 PM

The thought of "popping" a joey out makes me cringe! I couldn't imagine doing something like that. Even when I first started breeding, I never even considering doing something like that. This is definitely something ALL new breeders should take a look at.
Posted By: tlc_in_chitown

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/28/11 05:49 PM

Glad to see this thread going here. The only motivation for popping joeys early is greed/money. It is sad to see where some breeders have gone with this. If you want to take a chance with own gliders shame on you. To tell someone else how to do this and have something go wrong...know you share half of the blame. If someone tells you how to do this, think about the chance you are taking! For those misinformed enough to actually try and do this, the consequences can be fatal. If you care about your gliders, you will wait.

Most of my parents "un-pack" their joeys to clean them and air them out towards the end anyway. Sometimes I am lucky enough to get a peek. If not....I wait. I would never mess with under-cooked joeys or do anything to stress my moms out. So sad! Go Nancy!
Posted By: fox0r

Re: popping joeys-new breeders please read - 06/28/11 06:36 PM

Gosh, when Delilah had Cici IP, I didn't even touch the baby until she detached. I was too paranoid I would cause her to be rejected, or detach, or who knows what! I couldn't even imagine someone popping babies.
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