Perfect Pocket Pets Fact or Fiction

Hi,

I don't own a sugar glider nor do I intend to, but a close friend of mine recently purchased one from Perfect Pocket Pets. I researched it at the same time he did when I heard he was getting one, and came across this forum and the general sentiment that PPP spews garbage (which tbh was my initial impression when the video I saw had like 5 diplomas in the background and a guy wearing a lab coat claiming everything else is false and they are the only truth bearers, so perhaps I was pre-biased to believe that conclusion, but still).

However, my friend is very pro-PPP and is convinced that they are for real and everyone else believes in "outdated husbandry techniques" and that they think PPP is wrong because it's just different from the way they learned things are done. Besides that line of thinking, his reasoning seems to rest on the other webpages hosted by the PPP, and his argument for their legitimacy seems to be based on the fact that their website for vets has operation footage, which he thinks is a lot of trouble to go through for a scam. The rest of his justification as far as I can tell is based on what he calls an innate sense of knowing when someone is being dishonest or trying to swindle him. But my own instincts point the other direction.

Basically, I don't think I'll be able to convince him that PPP's info is inaccurate (I think if I were to push the notion, he would shut me out), and am also hesitant to push the issue very far because I've done relatively little research on the matter myself, just a few days here and there. So it's not impossible I'm mistaken myself. However, I'd like to learn a bit more about this anyway so I'll know if I ever need to.

My question is, PPP supposedly supplies incorrect information about how to care for sugar gliders. If so, what incorrect information have you heard they have passed on, and what information would you offer as accurate instead? For instance, he claims (from PPP) that squishing the sugar glider helps calm it, because it's a marsupial and it's in a pouch in nature. However this doesn't feel right to me, and it seems to state otherwise here as well. Can you give other examples? And what have they said that you think holds true? Please don't hesitate to give as many examples of either as you can think of, the more the better.



Thanks in advance for your help. I'm not sure it will make much of a difference in this case, but it can't hurt, and I'm sure others could use the information as well. And sorry for the long post.

One should NEVER SQUISH a glider, they are fragile and that could KILL THEM. PPP also states that these guys are easy to get along with right from the start, that is also FALSE. An owner must make the commitment to work with their glider and over time (several months atleast) a bond will devolope. PPP also claims that you can feed dry cat food to the gliders and that is WRONG. A glider requires a special diet with a balanced Ph to Calcium ratio. The best place to see more about the different diets can be found right here on G.C. Please try to make him understand the Perfect Pocket Pets are MILL BREEDERS and dont really care about the animals, ONLY how much money they can get for them.

When a glider is in a pouch and gets upset, starts crabbing. I will gently but firmly hold the glider and pouch up against me to help calm the glider. This is NOT squishing the glider and the glider does still have some freedom of movement.

PPP tells people to get their glider to stop biting to basically shove your thumb in their mouth and hold it there for 5 minutes. This is not only harmful to the trust building you are working on, it is CRUEL to the glider.

PPP tells you that gliders don't need vets. While gliders don't need vaccines like dogs/cats, they definately DO need vets. PPP will tell you ALL gliders have giardia. This is NOT TRUE. Giardia is a parasite that can kill gliders if left untreated.

PPP is NOT A MILL BREEDER. They are in fact a MILL BROKER. They do not breed the glider's themselves but have them shipped to them, most often much younger than they should have been taken from the parents. They sell gliders that have been pulled from the parents too soon because the babies are so much more calm and cute.

PPP tells people that gliders over 14 months old will not bond with humans. Totally not true. My most bonded gliders came to me as adults.

PPP tells you that gliders will get along great with other household pets. Tragically this is MOST often NOT the case and so many have lost their little gliders because of it.

There is so much, we could spend days on here just trying to list things for you. Most of these things are already posted here on GC in various threads. Hopefully your friend will find his way here and will research and learn the truths.

My son also purchased his glider from Perfect Pocket Pet, and thinks they are THE word. This from a man who was born a skeptic... She is 6 months old and has been healthy. They do not tell you to "squish" the glider to calm them, but to GENTLY put your hand against the pouch, as if another glider is cuddling them. We have noticed that whatever they say on their "family only" info kind of meshes with some of the things said here.. Our concern was the food. Buying a 2 yr supply of anyone's food (human or animal) seemed ... Foolish... He does give her vegetables and fruits as treats, so we aren't sure what they advise. She is healthy, tho her coat is not quite as soft as our gliders, which he seemed to notice at Christmas. I am afraid your friend may be like our son and be hard to disavow PPP unless something traumatic happens and is completely opposite what they say. On a positive note, a lot of their advice, again, on the "private family" whatever, seems to have been positive as far as bonding, some foods (tho variety in the form of fruits and vegetable is suggested as treats). She is very well bonded and loves people, won't run away, and very smart. We just hope she stays that way. What I would warn him of, if he is into the "vet videos" is the practice of sticking his thumb in their mouth to stop their biting... It will stop their biting, because they will never come near him!

PPP "guarantees" their gliders are not related, and encourages people to breed their own. This has resulted in many tragedies due to inbreeding.

PPP tells you that the only thing your gliders need to eat are apples and their pellets (starting off). This forms EXTREMELY malnourished gliders, and gives them a VERY weak foundation for future health.

PPP tells you that Bugs make a glider smell, and if you only feed THEIR diet, your gliders won't smell. Simply untrue. Gliders on a poor diet, such as PPPs, smell more.

PPP tells you your glider needs a heat rock. This is certainly true - since they sell gliders WAY too young to be weaned, and often in a health-compromised state. A healthy glider over 8 weeks OOP would never need a heat rock to survive.

PPP tells you that they sell "Sugar Bears" - which are allegedly a domesticated version of Sugar Gliders, and don't have the same nutritional needs as gliders. This is complete and total BUNK. They sell Sugar Gliders. Calling them Sugar Bears enables them to control the amount of information you can get off the internet with a Google search.

PPP has sold gliders with serious health issues - from diet, from being weaned too young, and from genetic defects as a result of inbreeding ... to name a few. Their sales pitch is all about how gliders are "the easiest pet since the pet rock." This is SIMPLY untrue!

Gliders are an exotic animal. Call them Sugar Bears, Sugar Monkeys, Flying Monkeys or Flying Rats.... they are STILL an exotic animal, with a need for an exotic diet, and somewhat specialized care.

They *CAN* be the greatest pet since the pet rock. But they will never be the *easiest* pet since the pet rock!

bump

LOL the "vet videos" LOL

http://www.sunbiz.org/scripts/ficidet.ex...um=G09000134327

Read why it was canceled!!!

This is the first time I have seen this wow!!

Lol! MrsBerg, I think PPP is the word too!! Unfortunately since Glider Central is rated "G" I can't say which "word" I think they are!!!

I think that no matter what we say there are some people who will NEVER believe us. This is for many reasons. Sometimes I think that it's because if people finally see the truth they don't like the feeling of being "scammed" so they avoid looking to deep. The second is that if they have to believe something other than what PPP told them about their animal then taking care of their animal suddenly becomes a whole lot harder and more expensive and this is NOT what they signed on for.
Some people only hear what they want to hear to make their lives easier. As long as they deny, deny, deny then there is nothing to worry about.
Remember too, that to some people an animal is JUST an animal...pet or not. It is just an animal so if it dies in a year because you feed it improperly or housed it in a cage that was to small or "oooppps" the cat ate it, well (shrug) that's life....Sad but true...
Why try to find the best information to care for your pet when the reality is you just don't CARE all that much!!


Anybody also notice that some of those gliders sitting on the "vets" on the ASGV site are cut and pasted on them??

Excellent points Carrie!

I didn't notice that those gliders were cut and pasted.

Why was it cancelled? I didn't see anything listed.

If you click on the document at the bottom "10/20/2009 -- CANCELLATION " you will see it was canceled because it "was filed Fraudulently and without authorization from Global Retail Enterprises,Inc." and we all know who owns GRE,Inc!!!

http://www.sunbiz.org/pdf/00166842.pdf

I have taken in a glider from a co-worker who purchased her from PPP. However, I am afraid she will end up with some sort of illness. Right now I am having her urnie checked for cyrstals. I am hoping she does not have stones either!!!! I am hoping for a miracle. I have only had her for a little over 2 months. Im already attached!!!

As for PPP I cant stand any mill who wants to take advantage of uneducated persons and animals! :@

KeikoBear, having gliders from Perfect Pocket Pets doesn't mean an automatic death sentence for the glider.. Nor does it mean that that glider will be sick. Not all PPP gliders are sick.

WinterSong, I agree. I am just being a worry wort!

I agree that PPP is not who you want to purchase from. I have seen and heard some horror stories. The worst one being that PPP's breeders, basicly being a large glider factory, have one specific person whos designated job is to roll around a big trash can picking the dead gliders out of cages. And have you ever been where they are set up? All these tiny babies in a poo covered cage, with old apples everywhere in the cage, and like 20 4 week old babies piled on an old towel in the bottom of the cage.. If you ask me, their set-up alone is inhumane. Tiny cages, poor diet, and a lot of lies. Not something I would buy into.

What about the practice of letting the sugar glider crawl up your hand, then onto your other hand, then back onto your first hand, and so on? The point of this practice seems to be to get the sugar glider to pee and poop all it needs to at once (which it does as it crawls feverishly), so you can carry it around with you in a zippered pouch without it using the restroom in its pouch. But I'm not sure if it does all of this out of fear or what... From observing this, it looks like the sugar glider is trying to escape during this process, as it keeps jumping back towards the cage. But perhaps I'm misinterpreting. What are your thoughts on this?

"There is so much, we could spend days on here just trying to list things for you. Most of these things are already posted here on GC in various threads. Hopefully your friend will find his way here and will research and learn the truths."
Unfortunately I doubt this is the case, as his mind seems already pretty made up. Though perhaps that will change with time...

While I'm sure there are lots of things posted elsewhere around GC about it, I don't have the time personally to read every thread here, especially since I'm not planning on getting a glider myself. But I was hoping this thread could serve as a compilation of PPP-related info, both for me in my light-moderate interest and for others just passing through. Especially since I haven't seen any other highly visible threads that offer a bulk of info on the matter.

If you know of any threads that have lots of PPP info though, please post links here and I'll take a look there as well. I just don't have the free time to explore the entire forum for tidbits here and there, and I thought this centralized format would be more convenient.

Thanks!

Besides being shady and cruel, they're also dumb.

I can see where you would believe this, however, gliders do not use their pouch as a bathroom as long as they are sleeping in it during the day. They will use the bathroom as soon as they come out, which is why you notice that they go on your hands. If they need to go to the bathroom during the day, they will wake up and start moving around in the pouch. This is your cue to let them out to do their business. Gliders will also go more frequently when they are scared... which makes sense because any glider from PPP is not familiarized with people and thus terrified of us.

I don't understand why your friend would want to rely solely on one resource for the care of his pets. And if he did some more research it might open his eyes to what is really going on with PPP.

I have sooo many things I could say about those horrible ppl...but I'd be censored right out the glider central door LOL...

I wouldnt believe a word they say...ever!

1. Glider Rescues: Perfect Pocket Pets claims there are no glider rescues. Reality: There are many. Example: Suggie Savers, which is USDA certified and has made appearances in the media (Animal House Segment).
2. Perfect Pocket Pets claims diet is not complicated and internet diets are outdated. Reality: Many exotic vets, including my own, would disagree, so does that mean numerous exotic and glider vets follow outdated practices? If we focus on the natural diet of these animals and their anatomy we can easily see hard pellets are not the answer. Sugar gliders have teeth (very sharp at that) designed to scrape bark, and long tongues for licking sap. They have been biologically designed to follow this diet. But they also have hunting capabilities for catching prey i.e insects. They are NOT biologically designed to chew on hard pellet food. If compared to a cow-a grazing animal. A cow has a grand total of 32 flat teeth specifically made for chewing and breaking down food. A sugar glider does not, therefore; simple anatomy of this little creature is enough indication that chewing on hard pellets as a source of nutrition goes against what this animal was originally designed for and can have ill effects (lumpy jaw).
3. Perfect Pocket Pets claim sugar gliders only have an odor if fed live insects. Reality: I feed live insects and it does not make my gliders smell. Male sugar gliders have scent glands on their head and chest which when used to mark can emit a peculiar smell at best. This smell is not a result of a diet of insects but is what nature intended.
4. Perfect Pocket Pets claim sugar gliders themselves do not make noise but the toys they have. Reality: Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Sugar gliders make a series of noises and it isn’t due to them being unhappy or neglected as PPP would have you believe. They make noises for various reasons: they are scared, they are communicating, they are distressed, they are content and so much more. They are capable of barking, hissing, crabbing, chattering and when this is occurring in the middle of the night the toys with bells are the least of the owner’s concern. Now this may not pertain to all gliders as they all have different personalities and therefore some may be less vocal than others, but to claim that they are all happy, quiet little creatures is untrue.
5. Perfect Pocket Pets claim sugar gliders rarely bite and if they do stick your thumb in their mouth for five minutes. Reality: Many owners can easily say sugar gliders do like to use their mouths whether it is to defend themselves, taste objects or simply groom. In most cases this is by far RARE. And as far as sticking a thumb into a sugar glider’s mouth for five minutes as a solution as PPP would have one do, this is animal cruelty. It is the equivalent of sticking a fist into a crying baby’s mouth. PPP claims it doesn’t hurt the animal and even if this were true (which I doubt it is) it very well can be traumatizing to a sugar glider and should not be used as a training technique. I train dogs and I have never ever, ever used cruel negative reinforcement. In fact, I regularly tell clients to not hit or spank their dogs because this is usually done in anger and dogs respond best to positive reinforcement. Positive reinforcement: A dog chews on furniture. Tell the dog no and redirect them to an appropriate object they can chew on. Many glider owners practice techniques similar to this. If a glider bites they make a noise (such as a hiss) or tell them no and redirect their attention to a treat or toy. This practice is far less extreme and traumatic on a glider, and does not have the potential to hurt your relationship with your glider as terrifying it with a finger in its mouth would.
6. Perfect Pocket Pets claim you don’t need to spend an intensive amount of time with a glider, and do not need a friend as long as you are a spend time everyday with them. Reality: This may be true for some gliders. They may be fine alone. Potentially unhappy, but overall fine. However, there is a chance of a glider over grooming or mutilating from boredom or loneliness. This is reality and a sad truth in some cases. If this could be prevented by simply having a companion wouldn’t it be best? If prevention is the sole key to happiness and health then ideally it is in the animal’s best interest to have a companion. And in the case that the owner is sick or busy, and do not have time to devote daily attention for a day or two the animal will not be affected if he/she has some company, and this is a fact.
7. Perfect Pocket Pets claim a smaller cage is better for bonding and a 2x3x2 cage is ideal. Reality: Bigger is better! Sugar gliders can glide very far distances and enjoy jumping around and like having free space to do so. Also, a bigger cage I have found did not have any affect on bonding with my gliders.
8. Perfect Pocket Pets claim sugar gliders do not have complicated health problems and mostly become sick from “outdated diets” and poor hygiene. Reality: This really cracks me up. Every living organism that lives and breaths has the potential to become ill for various reasons. Sugar gliders are no different. Sugar gliders are not immortal and immune to illness or parasites. Sugar gliders can contract diseases from other animals such as respiratory illnesses from rabbits, and they can have parasites and they can basically suffer from sickness like every other living organism. Enough said.
9. Perfect Pocket Pets claim sugar gliders do not “smell” like prey, therefore; other pets will just love them! Reality: No! As I have stated in another post, predator animals are generally driven not by smell but sight of movement. A tennis balls or stuffed toy does not smell like prey but that doesn’t stop a dog from chasing and “killing’’ it. A good example of this was a story a client told me. They had a rabbit and a dog, and they allowed the dog to be around the rabbit and this was all fine and grand. The rabbit hopped around the dog freely and the dog knew what the animal looked and smelled like. It was a perfect relationship, or at least it was until the rabbit decided to playfully run. As soon as the rabbit ran the dog saw it as prey and even after months of the dog and rabbit peacefully getting along this did not stop the dog from killing it. So put simply, smell most certainly does not protect a prey animal from a predator.
10. Perfect Pocket Pets claim squishing a sugar glider will calm it. Reality: Nuh uh. Sugar gliders are delicate and this could potentially harm it, or frighten it more. As someone said above, simply holding or stroking a sugar glider through a pouch is more likely to comfort.

Finally, when it comes to which information to believe. When I did research I looked at it like this: the members of “outdated” forums and sites have NOTHING to gain by providing information whether it be true or false. PPP gains sales by making the sugar glider seem like the perfect super immortal pet. Who would you believe? At one time, I was in the position where I did not know what information to believe. It is up to the owner to use their own knowledge and judgment, and that is what I did and I encourage others to do the same. I personally do not agree with most of PPP beliefs, teachings, and information.

I happen to live on Eldridge road. I typed the mailing address listed on that document (935 ELDRIDGE ROAD #218 SUGAR LAND, TX 77478) in google maps, but the street view is a vacant lot..

Huh? So what's been barking at me from those fleece pouches on occasion? The scent blankies?

You have the mutant pouches, too? Wow, I thought it was only me!!!!! :-)

Lol, I have wondered the same thing.

Not trying to defend PPP, however, is there actual FACTUAL PROOF of these things taking place? Do we have pictures or written documentation from someone that can be seen to confirm these accusations are indeed true?

Reason I ask is because if there is, than the next step would need to be taken with this company as it was done in Arlington Texas with US Global Exotics.

If not, and it is just *hearsay*, than whether we like a company or not, accusations of this type should NOT be made. Not only will it give them more right to say see, glider forums out there just spread lies about us, but the people that are saying it without actual proof, actually could be sued for slander.

When dealing with places such as PPP, one must ALWAYS just deal in the facts. We all need to remember that although gliders to us are an emotional area, to PPP it is a business, so they will view things differently.

Also, I must add, PPP is NOT *THE* Mill Breeder, they are just a broker. If the actual people/companies that supplied PPP with their gliders were no longer in business, PPP would not be able to sell gliders because they would not have any to sell.

Well then Peggy we need to figure out who is supplying them with the gliders and shut down the suppliers. I would assume that the more mill breeders we close that supply the gliders, would force PPP to raise the price of gliders eventrually high enought that no one would want to buy. Then there is the problem though of what would happen to all the gliders who are in the mill breeders hands?

Peggy, it very well could be the opposite: If PPP did not broker gliders, then the suppliers would not likely be raising gliders. PPP is not the only animal broker to help people get set up as suppliers or the people who actually raise the animals while the broker promises to buy all of their production.

Some puppy, reptile, and small animal producers work the same way. They would not be raising that animal if they did not have a broker to buy their babies.

And I think that this original post may not actually be anything other than a way to gather comments about PPP in a concise way so that PPP can use that info. Why would someone who is not interested in gliders, w/a friend who bought a glider from PPP, know so much about it or even know that perhaps their info is not the best?

Sounds very fishy to me.

Yeah, you're right. After all, why would anyone ever bother to do research for themselves beforehand on a subject that a friend asks them for advice about? Obviously any normal person would offer advice without knowing anything about what they're talking about first. Clearly a conspiracy is afoot!

Feel free to consider me a PPP mole if you like, I don't really care. (By the way, I work for the CIA and KGB as well - yes, both simultaneously because I am that sneaky.)

On a more serious note, in general I think this thread so far has turned up a fair amount of good information. Of the recent posts I in particular would like to thank HeatherB, her post was exactly the sort of info I was hoping people would share when I started this thread.

I would really like to know about the information, if any, that we have from inside the breeder mills. When I first started breeding, I was thinking about getting into hedgies as well... and I found a mill breeder who happened to be breeding them both. This individual was having a "breeder sellout" because he finally had made enough money on the gliders and hedgies to finance his bird breeding.
I have e-mails directly from that individual about the cage sizes, food, and cleaning.
I think I may have tried to post it on GC, but I couldn't without cutting and pasting. But it is still up on GG: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=17191
The thing that stuck with me the most was that he said that I could fit 20 cages of gliders in an airline dog kennel.

Now please understand my perspective... I am with only suggies now, and I will only buy from breeders that I trust and joeys that have great lineages. I realized that you always get what you pay for when you go cheap.