What happened?

Sitting here wondering tonight, whatever happened to the Sugar Glider Community?

Years ago when it all began (at least for me), the 'community' itself was a much closer, family oriented place to be. Yes, we had our arguments with one another and not everyone agreed on things, but in the end we agreed to disagree. Yes, there were some, that no matter what, just did not like one another, but again, even with the dislike between each other, in the end there was still some sort of respect for one another. And if help was needed, EVERYONE came together and put those feelings behind, even if it were just a for a short while.

People knew how to agree to disagree.

There was no bullying mentality. No, "I'm better than you" syndromes and definitely no "my way is the only way" even though everyone was passionate with the way they did what they did.

Today there is more hatred and bullying mentality in this group of animals that I have ever witnessed in any animal group.

If you dont have lineage, you are automatically attacked. You are not asked if you know the importance of proper lineage, you are not asked if anyone has ever went over lineage with you, you are just automatically placed on the chopping block and like vultures circling in the air looking for their next meal, all of a sudden you have a handful of people chewing you out and telling you how awful you are.

If you dont agree on diet it is the same thing. Yes, diet has always been a heated topic, but these days it is so much worse.

Cages and toys and wheels, well heaven forbid if you start off with a smaller size cage. People will tell you that you are torturing the glider and you have no right to own one. If you choose to use a certain type of pouch over another and someone doesnt like something about it because it could be a 'possible' danger you are told to hurry up and get it out of your cage. Well guess what folks, anything and everything, including the cage itself can be a danger.

And then there is bonding. It has went from educating people and telling people to take their time with gliders to people not telling new owners anything and these new owners get discouraged because they think they are going to have an instant bond with their new pet. After all, they seen the pics and videos, they seen how sweet the animal was at your home. Then they get it home and the animal is crabbing and when you try to explain to them the animal has just left all the surroundings it is accustomed to and where it felt safe to new sights and smells and will need time to adjust you are accused of having bad joeys and you never spend time with them.... and the joeys wind up getting rehomed.

The sugar glider world is just in a totally different place than it was when I entered it back in 2003. I honestly thought that things would get better as we learned new things about the gliders. But nope, it has only gotten worse.

People cannot have these little animals to love and adore anymore and share stories because when they do they are criticized for one thing or another and it is just very sad.

The once family atmosphere has now turned into a Hatfield and McCoys.... where does that leave new owners and the sugar glider??

I so its been 5 years sense I've been. Back and wow but what can u do

It is a terrible situation. I am trying to educate people, I give them all the diets and let them choose what will fit with their lifestyle. Telling them the only good diet is the diet your gliders will eat. If they won't eat it, then the diet isn't good for your gliders.

Then the new people get on facebook and they get ripped apart. Not to sound like a certain seller we know, but maybe we should be telling the new owners to stay off of facebook.

The forums are a much better place for new and old owners alike. Facebook has become a very hostile place.

I still see the glider community as a good place, but I do tell new owners to stay off of FaceBook. I send them here.

GliderCENTRAL is where I learned everything I know about sugar gliders. GliderCENTRAL is where I have become real life friends with other glider owners. GliderCENTRAL is where I call "home".

GliderCENTRAL will always remain a safe haven, if you will, for the glider community. We welcome all people here so long as you treat each other with respect (and follow our simple 8 rules). We are truly here to help.

I don't care where you bought your gliders, I don't care what size your cage is or what diet you feed, or what wheel you use. Will I educate you on those topics if I feel its needed? Absolutely! But I'm not here to condemn anyone for the choices they made. We all live and learn.

I would do anything to see the newbies and experienced owners to utilize the forums over FaceBook. I know FB has some really handy features, but I'll take the ambiance of GliderCENTRAL over those conveniences any day.

I really haven't found GC to be that hostile, sure there have been a few "cut throat" threads that are heated and accusatory, but I personally haven't seen that many attacks. I've read a few here in there since I've joined this forum but not being here years ago, I can't compare fairly, but it doesn't seem that bad to me. Perhaps one is too many, but you will get that on occasions when you mix a large group of people together at times.

I agree we should strive as a community and refrain from attacking someone because they weren't aware of one thing or another, and I feel for the most part, that's how we are, helping each other and sharing with each other.

I'm comfortable here at GC, more so the fb, to me fb is a place where I keep up with my family mostly, not a community to me. I've been on other forums and I found myself gravitating to this one over and over and here is where I spend most of my computer time (well, maybe not when I'm researching something really important, and when I start some classes), but I spend more time on GC than fb and any other website.

Agreed Terry, we don't have that type of environment here on GliderCENTRAL - and that's the way we want to keep it! Like I said, this is a 'safe haven'.

Since I joined in 2007, there has always been hostile situations and fighting and backstabbing and threats and anger and hatred, but it has definitely gotten worse all around. Or is it just more obvious now because it is all over facebook and not contained in one or two forums? I don't know. I like to think that the vast majority are good people who, no matter what the conflicts are, would still help others and their gliders in need. I know I would. I don't hate anyone and I have problems with very few people. I'm sure people are sick of hearing it, but I have always said that I can like or love a person and not like or love some of the things they say and do or how they act at times. I also forgive pretty darn easily and always give people the benefit of the doubt... although, sometimes I need to calm down a bit first, depending on the situation...lol.

Facebook is definitely more of a highschool setting that anything else. I made mention of "rescuing" jasper from a pet store and got ripped apart for it, saying that you can't rescue from pet stores because buying from pet stores just encourages them. I was like wow... Really? Grow up... But whatever. I got more important things to do than fight over words or technicalities on fb. Like playing tug-o-war with Jasper and answering Buster's summons.

Sadly it become the norm to attack people that are new to the hobby( pets or any interest)they have. I admit I not a pro at anything I learned to rehash what I learned and found that works. I have people at work and outside of work ask me questions all the time. I often tell people the pocket pet stuff, and I point out to them like anything they shop for or plan on buying to do research and to gather their info and make an informed choice.


I know on a couple reptile forums that the New (think they know it alls) are the ones to bash and scare off the people just starting to get into the hobby

I point people here to ask questions and to read up ( I never limit my studying to a single company or site) just cause the information might be outdated or stretched to make them look like they know it all. I mean I have a glider that love the Hpw diet and eat most of their veggies but man they destroy the pocket pet pellets. but don't care for the ( I think it called ) exotic nutrition mix they only eat the fruit out of it and leave the actually pellets ( or fling them out of the food bowl)

To be honest, I love forums. I love to soak up information and read to learn. Most of the time i can find my answer with the search. I am very scared to ask questions just because of the way people are And i dont like drama. I am new to sugar gliders. The information i have found on here has been wonderful. With that being said i know i will never hit my quota.

What happened? Me-ism (this is a fulfilled prophecy by the way).

The death of Natural Affection.
The death of Common Sense.

and Facebook is the death of forums.

On facebook there are no consequences for your behavior the way it is on forums that are strictly moderated. So the kids go chaotic. Anarchy.

Just my perspective and 2 cents.

Please don't be afraid to ask questions on here. We always encourage it. There is no dumb question! And everyone here is usually very eager to help.

I think Facebook can be a hostile place and cause some sort of drama for just about anyone. That's why I'm not on it at all. GliderCENTRAL provides the environment and ability to learn without all the negativity. I wish all new owners could be directed here.

I have always been treated with so much kindness here which as a semi new glider mom I always appreciated

I havent been treated bad. Do to bad experiences in other groups I am still trying to feel confortable to ask questions.

I know that it is discouraging to a lot of hobby breeders to get on some forums because it is just asking for judgment. However this forum saved my relationship with my first glider and now I have a trio that breeds and I do it because I love the joeys. I am thinking of retiring my trio and getting another pair because I am worried about how much they actually breed and these are my friends I don't want them to get burnt out. I still come here for advise and I don't know everything so I come here to people who often offer great advise. I don't feel comfortable on very many more forums

Just to add to the conversation, I felt very welcomed and found others that were quite willing to take me under their wing with all of my questions. I have only been a memeber since Feb. 2014- I don't know what I would have done without this forum. I wish there were more gatherings in my state.

I know I am not the many, but I always mention this forum when talking about my gliders to others.

Thanks to all here!!

TRUTH!

I always tell people to join GC and TSS to learn more about gliders - they will always be better than the facebook groups, in my opinion.

I have been with GC for many many years, and seen lots of bickering and drama, but I can say without judgement that I learned everything I know about gliders here! I was sent here by the breeder I have always gone to for joey care and advice.

I love this forum and it's members, but we all must recognize that there will always be growing pains, and as this forum and it's members and the community grow, there are going to be adjustments between 'oldies' and the newer members.

This forum is where I send new owners who need to gather information and share experiences. Also, every now and then there are people (like ME) who need to vent and I am proud to see that most of these are kept to a reasonable tone.

While this forum is made by it's members, the ones who keep it going and are dedicated to it's upkeep are the 'staff' (mods, admin, owner) that keep it safe.

This site is one I firmly believe in, and I love it and all the things it offers. What happens, I believe, is specific to the site. FB is cool for general info, and keeping people in touch, but I think that GC will always be the place where any generation can come and be better for it.

These are growing pains. Those are never easy, but they can be overcome. We all just need to relax and see that these things happen when a community starts to grow.

I love GC. I always will. The memories I have are so precious and I look forward to more.

so, keeping the gliders at the center, let's enjoy them and share what we know and what we learn. We slaves have the wonderful joy of discovering just how incredible they are.

That's my take on things. Thanks for reading!

I have been with GC for a few years. Found it when my Rocky was bought from Canton and after 4 days of having him he got sick, people on GC helped me and got me through it. I have learned a lot here and helped a few along the way, I hope. This forum link is on my website! I only belong to non drama groups on FB. They became time wasters as I have lots of suggies to love on so cant be arguing and upset lol. GC and the other large forum will be strong for years to come.

I guess I lucked out because I started here and this is where I've stayed for all of my glider needs. I know it's been a few months since I've posted but it's not because I don't like the forum....I've just been busy working and taking care of my gliders
Y'all have never made me feel scared to ask questions and the only drama threads I've read are the ones that expose bad business owners, which I feel is justified. As a new owner, I need to know who to stay away from.
I've been on different types of forums in the past, non-glider related forums, and every single one of them treated people horribly, so I was apprehensive when I joined this one. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find that this was a very welcoming environment. I've received nothing but friendly replies and encouraging words of wisdom from you all and I can't thank you enough.
So to the veterans of this community trying to make it a better place - please know that your efforts have not been in vain. I have never been part of a more civilized, welcoming, purposeful forum. It's because of you that I've had such a smooth transition into becoming a sugar mom. Me and my very happy sugar babies thank you for that!

I am so glad to see all the replies since I have been gone.

Yes, GC is a great place to come and learn and the bullying is not visualized here as it is on all the many facebook groups.

Now if only we can get all those folks that are in those facebook groups to start adding a link to GC in them when they see someone being ripped apart (which unfortunately happens on just about a daily basis) maybe we can start educating the way we used to instead of the having the mentality out there it is my way or no way.

Sadly, I know way too many people who, apparently, just don't care about others anymore. Whether it is lying, scamming, name-calling, threats, etc. There are some people who are so caught up in their own lives, pride, enterprises, whatever...that they don't even seem to want to hear any real feedback if it isn't completely positive, just that whatever they are doing or supporting is wonderful and great. Newbies and long-time community members, alike. It makes me so sad. What happened to for the good of the glider?

what is TSS?

I'm a little late to the discussion, but thought I would throw my 2 cents in. We have been on GC for just about 5 years. We found it when we were looking for information about gliders (our son had just purchased one and we knew nothing) and it's been our "go to" resource ever since (and now we have five of our own). We've looked at other forums but have always preferred GC.

My participation has waned in the last year or so for a variety of reasons, and when returning not too long ago I was surprised how few of the "old timers" (for lack of a better description - sorry ) were active any more.

I have been using Facebook for a few years, but only recently discovered the Sugar Glider Fanatics group. There's lots of participation, but sometimes it seems, well, frantic.

Will Facebook replace forums? Maybe to a certain extent, but I don't think so. Facebook is still in some respects the wild west. Your identity is there for all to see, but as a few have pointed out there aren't always consequences for bad behavior. You can say what you want and who knows who is credible?

One advantage, a big one, I think, to forums such as GC is structure and organization. It makes it easier to find information about your specific issue. If I have a question about bonding I can go to the bonding forum for information. It's likely that there will be someone with experience to answer my question. I don't have to sift through various FB posts about other topics I'm not interested in. A certain amount of the information is archived in GC and will always be available.

In partial answer to Peggy's question, I think one big reason for changes is that the community has greatly expanded in the last few years as gliders have become more popular. It's no longer the (relatively) small group of glider owners that were around 5 or 6 years ago. I also think the polarization in society these days is spilling over into areas beyond politics. It's becoming an attitude. Lots of people think their opinion is the only one.

I'm not sure why this seems to be worse with the glider community - I don't have any experience with other groups to know the difference. And as far as forums are concerned, GC is it for me.

I've started to respond to some posts on SGF on Facebook, and will try to remember to include a link to GC when I can. I noticed a few people doing that already.

Other than that, the best we can do is set a good example here on GC and wherever we discuss sugar gliders, on Facebook or other forums.

The Sweet Spot. Link is in my signature.

To give a similar perspective from a new, yet frightfully inquisitive, member:
I have asked many questions and always received calm and candid answers. Though in any community there is friction, and with every person their agenda, I have felt welcomed here. I prescribe to no ideological, political, or methodological principles and therefore cannot impose on others anything but the weight of the responsibility of general pet ownership. It is my honest opinion that what is most vulgar and disagreeable about the internet is it's lack of personal responsibility, it's lack of appropriate consequence, to which careful moderation is a most welcomed remedy.

Facebook is indeed the death of sensibility, and places like these are safe havens, "pouches" if you will, for which we may climb into and groom one another toward a common goal. That goal, however difficult, however illusory, is and has always been an increase of knowledge. We sometimes forget why a thing began, and losing sight of that can be a tragedy both for you and those in your care. This is a place teeming with possibility, and though sometimes that potential is wasted in juvenile conflicts and puerile retorts, I think overall the atmosphere hasn't changed. This forum is about Sugar Gliders. I think this is what people forget, and something we would all do well to remember.

You as a 'new member' makes me curious as to how you would know if the atmosphere has changed or not. Unfortunately, I do disagree, as many years ago the closeness of owners around the states was much more than today.

Just something that caught my eye.

Here we go…

I only have one thing to add:
Many of us LEFT this forum and re-registered years later!
So a "new member" might not be that "new"

I was here years ago and get crapped on by many so I left. Also it felt like I'm snooping in on some private conversations!
There were many threads that included 3-4 people carry on a private conversation that had nothing to do with gliders or information about gliders, but rather discussing family, friends and uncle Ted.
It was becoming annoying when I was posting a question and all of the sudden I have people having a "private joke" about it, but got no answer! I felt like an idiot for even bother asking so I stopped and didn't come back for years.
I re-registered only a few month ago to see if things improved and in some ways it has, other ways it hasn't.

When questions are not being answered with proper reasoning and explanation no wonder information is getting lost!

I still have tons of questions and/or don't have experience in certain topics and that's the very reason why I came back as I really don't want to learn the "hard way"!

Thank you for reading my post!

I meant in my opinion the atmosphere hasn't changed in comparison to what you describe occurred in the past. People change but the ambiance here seems largely the same as you and others described it "once was." Maybe there was a closeness, I cannot remember when I joined this forum several years ago to research gliders (it was at that time illegal in my state). The major posters are as helpful as can be, but as with everything, this is not universal. Disclaimer: Ambiance doesn't mean individuals are exempt from their humbuggery
IMHO Moderation is the answer to much of the problems many have discussed here. Stricter rules on personal attacks and non informative posts in a subject-heavy discussion etc. If you aren't contributing to the discussion, whether by asking a respectful question or giving a respectful non-combative response, then you shouldn't be posting on said thread. Just some suggestions.
Seahorse-org is a wonderful example of a forum where non-constructive posts are never tolerated; if it becomes a problem, threads are immediately locked. Responses are not even allowed to be "snippy," and everyone is the better for it. It is the largest seahorse forum in the world and these strictures hardly impact the overall user base yet allows for more fruitful dialogue.

The glider community is like a huge extended family. Some people have close relationships while other members of the family just cannot seem to get along regardless no matter what the topic or situation is/was. Just isn't going to happen. Over time some of those family members have learned to live a peaceful coexistence while others just do their best to stay out of each others way. There are those, however, who cannot help but try to stir the pot from time to time.

We do our best to keep the drama to a minimum here. Always have and always will. If it's drama you want, you will need to go elsewhere. I hear fb is a great place to find drama groups, although I have no first hand experience

If you have a problem with anything on the board, I am always here via PM as is Shelly/GliderNursery our Administrator. Just give us a shout.

Do I think the community has changed over the years? Well, I've been on staff here over a decade, and I can tell you it definitely has. Peggy is correct with everything she has said. 100% correct

Some changes have been good, others not so much. Some friendships have been broken beyond repair while others have grown strong. Problems between message boards have finally been laid to rest which, as far as I'm concerned, was a very good thing

FB has been the demise of several message boards, especially those who have started a fb group. That is probably the biggest change. The loss of the boards.

We do our very best to keep as much information here as possible - good information. We have extensive Archive forums which we find are grossly under utilized but still we keep them as up to date as possible. No, we do not keep every single thread/post made on the board. That would simply make no sense.

We are going to do everything we can to keep GliderCENTRAL interesting, up to date and a place you want to come. We are open to suggestions (within reason ).

I understand your suggestion, and at one time we were a much stricter board where rules were concerned.

We had twenty-one (21) rules where now we only have eight (8), and we were a strict "G" rated board where we are now a more "PG" rated since we do not have an age restriction for registration.

We do monitor discussions that have a tendency to get heated and will take appropriate action when needed. But I don't mind a little levity to keep things light

Allow me to make a humble retraction.
I fully concede that I have neither the knowledge nor the experience to accurately determine whether things have or have not changed. Perhaps what I should have said was: The welcoming atmosphere is a long standing tradition of which I am grateful to have experienced during both of my times here on GC, but I acknowledge that other traditions, of which I am woefully unaware, perhaps have fallen away into either disuse or disrepute. Family seems to me the best word for any community, and as such can be the rock that holds up the house or the hammer of it's fall.
Peggy, please forgive my momentary ignorance. I was trying to make a point (however poorly articulated) with the forum's best interest in mind. Ultimately to me, (and please allow me the brief paraphrasing of Gertrude stein) what is in the forum's best interest is in the members best interest is in the glider's best interest. And after all you are all called glider slaves for a reason!
No drama or offense intended, I posted only as to give a different perspective in order to help ameliorate future acrimony.

Levity is good.

levity is welcome by all I would, perhaps wrongly, assume; I mainly mentioned moderation towards the more negative aspects of intercourse among individuals here on the boards. I felt I needed to speak up for those who have treated me with great kindness with their responses, Peggy being among them, and hopefully offer solutions for those who have not been treated as such. In all other matters I bow my head to the people far more apt than I, to pass judgment on all things internet related :D

No need for apologies or retraction. Anything we have done or changed has always been done with the membership foremost in our minds. I'm sure some would disagree with that statement, but it truly has been.




Could not agree with you more.

I SOoooooo did NOT meant that in a bad way.... I promise. It truly sparked my curiosity. LOL..

Love this statement.

If nothing else, Hamlet, we're all going to have a much broader vocabulary, thanks to you I meant that in the best possible way, too.

lol I was thinking the same thing.....about to go look up 'ameliorate' and 'acrimony'. They sound fancy.

Haha I can't help it, I read too much. It's a problem.

Lol! No such thing as reading too much!

I know acrimony and I can guess ameliorate based on the context, but maybe I'll google to be sure.

Yep, I was right!

Honestly, when GC became PG instead of G, I, personally, was offended to see curse words. Not trying to be a goody two shoes, but my mom always told me and my siblings that "curse words were used by those not intelligent enough to think of a better word". Not having grown up with it or hearing it on tv (now I'm giving away my age!) I am very uncomfortable with cursing anywhere. I've stopped watching many shows and rarely watch movies, because cursing has become so widely accepted. And I find I'm watching fewer of what used to be my favorite shows.

Secondly, I found myself PMing newbies, because of the drama on public posts, to apologize for the way they were treated and begging them to stay. It was heartbreaking to see someone new ask a question, only to be ripped to shreds.

I remember when Elena first joined. The first thread she joined was about ways to make/save money for vet funds. A few ideas had been posted and she asked for more. The next posts were extremely rude, from telling her she should basically be smart enough to use the ideas given, to ripping her apart for not having a vet fund. This left her having to explain that she had just exhausted her vet funds on one glider and besides needing more ideas for herself, she was trying to round up ideas for others, so they wouldn't have the problem she had.

I've seen newbies answer questions with wrong and even dangerous answers. And I've seen way too many newbies leave GC because of rude, hurtful posts in replies to their situation.

I still believe GC is the best forum for pretty much everything glider related and I still highly recommend GC to anyone who asks and those who don't ask. But it doesn't feel like the same, comfortable "home" it felt to me when I first joined.

Just MHO.

I am reading and listening to everything posted in this thread.

I usually let Berg do the writing for us, and know he has offered his 2 cents, but, I just read Connie's response and felt i would like to respond.

I, also, remember when Elena posted that request. We had not been members here very long and were surprised at the number of down right rude responses people were getting to some of their posts. I know I answered many in PM's because I felt they deserved non judgmental responses, but, I am not as confident as Berg when writing a "public" response, and, felt that I could do more good with a PM than a "public" response that might only generate more drama.

We have been very busy with health issues and new gliders the last year and hadn't been on GC much at all. When we came back a few months ago, we were surprised to see many of the "old timers" we had respected for their civil responses were not posting very often.

We also noticed most, if not all of the drama queens were gone, and new owners were treated with more respect. It was refreshing. The one thing that has always driven me crazy is, when one's question is answered by an experienced owner, others feel that they have to either agree with that answer, give the same advice as if to give credence to previous answers, or, answer in ways that show they have not bothered to either read the original question, or any of the previous posts. Perhaps I am just easily annoyed, but, I feel if the person has been answered correctly, and you don't have anything to add, or, add questions they have answered in their original post because you have not READ the whole post, you would be better not to answer.

Berg had me join one of the FB pages and I find them worse than GC has ever been in that regard. Where GC might have 5 people reiterating the same answers or asking questions already answered, on some posts, you have to look at 10 to 20 answers before you come to the one that truly answers the original post.

I think GC has come a long way, for the better, since we were newbies. I don't see, what we felt was "infighting", between members that we saw. Answers are with out the drama questions, and newbies have to feel more welcomed than those when we first came. So, I feel GC has made headway and we always recommend it to people we meet who are interested in glider. We have also recommended it to our vet on several occasions and know she has passed the word along.

So, that is my 2 cents worth.

I am too Karen, I am too.

I want to thank everyone so far for joining in. I do hope we get more.

With facebook (I don't know if you can do this on the forums?) there is a lot of people who block each other due to whatever reasons. Sadly, there are also people who "unfriend" others just because of a difference of opinion about something or for some other petty reason. I think with the forums, at least the majority of the time, most people learned to agree to disagree. They may hash things out harshly, but they often came to an understanding after a while. Sadly, "friends" are completely disposable to some people and I think it causes a lot of anger and hurt. I have always been able to see both sides of any situation and give people the benefit of the doubt. I have some very good friends that I have met in the glider community that can't stand each other, but I do not choose sides and I will not.

I think there are some who look down on others because they are friends or friendly with certain people or are members of certain facebook groups and I find that all very sad. So many people focus on the negative, on the things they don't like about people, instead of truly focusing on the human being behind the monitor. I do believe that this has been ongoing for years (at least since I've been in the online community), but it either has gotten worse or it is just more visible now with facebook.

I hope I didn't just say something I already have on here as I didn't go back and reread my replies...lol. If I did, forgive me...I'm getting old.

Brenda, I think with facebook, even when people say things they think others will never hear about it. When people find out so and so is talking crap about them and they have them on their friends list, I think it is a bit of feeling betrayed. Having a difference of opinion is one thing, but unfortunately, we have all seen too well how hurtful words can actually be, yet we have those who share those things in a New York Second.

I know I have and continue to remove folks from my personal page that although I feel friendly towards, I do not really know enough about them or them about me to actually call them 'friends'.

Yea, it happens on here as well, but the thing is, GC doesnt tolerate the drama that the facebook groups have. Debates...yes, Drama...no.



Unfortunately, I think this kind of falls under the 'guilty by association' category I always had preached to me growing up and preached to my boys. No, you (not you personally)may not be like those that go around spreading negative and hatefulness, but when you hang with a crowd that does, others will expect it from you.

If you ever what to know what kind of person you are (again, not you personally), take a look around you and the people and friends you have. More than likely if you have negativity in the people around you, it is because you are projecting negativity, be it verbally, physically or even in thoughts and the same goes if you are surrounded by positivity.

As for blocking someone on forums, I dont 'think' you can do that. But hey, I could be wrong, its been known to happen before.

I just feel facebook is the devil as of late. It has really allowed hatred to flourish and chase away so many new owners. And for what? Because they werent experienced enough? They want to have their own minds, their own opinions and make their own choices?

A post made by Elena Hill when she registered in Jan/09 has been referenced more than once which was 5+ years ago. At that time our No Drama Policy had been in force since '07, the board was very active with a full Moderator Staff, and we were still operating as a "G" rated board. Our change to PG did not go into effect until late November 2011.

I honestly do not remember the specific discussion, however, I cannot imagine it getting as bad as related in this thread without either being edited or removed from the board with several Rule Violations being handed out. No, I am not going to try and look up something that old because I don't think it really matters anymore

Having said that, what is the point of bringing all that up now that things are considerably different now? How can we possibly go forward if we continue to dredge up old hurtful history? Even I have managed to learn that lesson.

We are trying to make GliderCENTRAL a better place for both newbies and ole timers (should they feel the desire to return). But please don't automatically blame GliderCENTRAL for the lack of ole timers posting on the board. Everyone, after a time, will move on to other places or simply get tired of the message boards AND even fb. They do come through from time to time.

To address the "G" to "PG". I'm not one to use curse words either. Not to say I haven't, but I especially don't like to see them in the written word here because we do not have an age limit for registration. However, it is up to parents to decide whether or not their children have access to the forums. We have done our best to only allow words they might hear during prime time network television, and there are certain words that will never be allowed here directly, inferred or abbreviated.

You can read the full explanation of the last major change Eddie and I made here.

As I said earlier in this thread, we are open to suggestions (within reason), because we are competing with fb. There is just no getting around it. Doesn't make it go away not to say it out loud or admit it.

Unlike fb, if you have personal problems with someone, don't air them here. Take them off the board. It's always been that way and will not change. From what I have seen over the past year, most of the people who had problems on the board seem to have worked them out or at least are not letting them interfere with helping others. This is a huge step for some, and I thank those people.

We still want GliderCENTRAL to be a warm and welcoming place for people to come, but there are certain things I/we will not do such as compromise what GliderCENTRAL has stood for all these years.

I understand what you are saying, but that is not the way I was raised. I was raised to forgive (and don't think I don't have to forgive myself frequently! LOL) and to love thy neighbor and to judge not lest ye be judged or something like that. I was raised to believe that everyone deserves a chance and we are all full of flaws and nobody is perfect. Thank goodness, because what a boring world we would live in if everyone was perfect!

I do respect everybody's right to their own opinions, though. I may not like what someone says or does or how they act, but that doesn't mean they are a bad person. I may not agree with someone on political issues, etc...but to me those don't have much to do with the actual person. I say to each his/her own.

The subject title of this thread is, "What happened?" I assumed opinions/thoughts were wanted, without fear of disapproval. Thus, I gave my opinion/thoughts. Before this thread, I never spoke of the thread with Elena. Before this thread, I never voiced my discomfort from going PG.

I feel as tho I've been chastised for answering a question members were asked to answer. I taught my kids and grand kids, "If you're not ready to hear the answer, don't ask the question." The above response was not what I expected when I truthfully answered the question that was asked. Now, I would feel uncomfortable answering questions in threads of this nature and quite honestly, I won't give my opinion/thoughts to future questions of this type, for fear of reprisal.

Connie, you were not chastised at all. Sorry if you felt that way.

The post was asking what has happened to the glider community in general, not what happened in a particular thread or instance.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.



No, you didn't. Even at the time of The Announcement , you posted in the thread but did not voice your discomfort.



Now isn't that just ridiculous, Connie. I try to explain to you how some of the changes came about. The why of the changes, and you get your feelings hurt.

There have been many many times anyone could have sent us a PM or even continued to post in the thread, but that didn't happen. As far as we knew, everyone was happy with the changes.

I think it's best for me to leave this thread. I've been extremely stressed, emotional and depressed lately. I just don't think I'm in the right frame of mind to reply to anything but glider related posts right now. I don't want anyone to feel badly about me or hurt anyone's feelings. I'm sorry, Karen. It's just not like me to be confrontational with anyone. Thank you for your apology. It means a lot to me.

“The devil is not as black as he is painted.”
Dante Alighieri

To bring the topic back on track, perhaps we should consider future changes rather than rehashing old traditions and disputes. Perhaps a new thread is in order, one such as "How to Improve GC: A New Perspective." If not, and members are fine posting here, then why don't we move away from the negative, and try to suggest positive changes that could be made in the spirit of inventive, constructive, and wholesome suggestion.
I'll get the ball rolling:
An online app (if there isn't one already) might be something to consider; it would greatly increase the popularity of the site, and as a respectable resource would, over time, accrue a larger user base which means more healthy gliders in even more capable hands.
My Argument:
These days, (and I know I sound like an old man but I'm only 23!), the cell phone has become THE MEDIUM, causing all others to dissolve in its wake as the lunar corona its neighborhood of stars. We are inundated in the radioactive waves of a technoverse with no end in virtual sight. Art is dying (although throughout history has always had its ups and downs), and naturalistic hobbies are seeing the highest rates of attrition since the invention of the television
(*no actual figure to back this up*).
People don't leave their screens, and their screens become their life. Why not take advantage of the phenomenon?
Now the downside:
Apps can be costly. Tendered assistance and intelligent fundraising would be necessary to accomplish this goal. There are some logistical aspects such as maintenance and distribution of which I am woefully under-informed, and will not comment upon, yet the validity of my idea seems, at least to its maker , worth considering.

I'm sure there are people far more equipped than I to contribute to this discussion. Now's the time, let your voice be heard!

This is a perfect example of what happens on GC and facebook. I am reading this "exchange" and have no idea why anyone would get upset at anything that was said. Too may times when reading anything online we inject emotion into things when none is warranted. Our own emotional state often controls how we respond (such as in Connie's situation, she is stressed and going through some things and so is in a sensitive state which effects how she feels). When things are stable we can more easily detach our emotions from situations. The old adage "leave work at work" applies here. When I enter GC I make a concerted effort to leave the rest of the world behind, unless I am specifically asking for help with that world. Maybe thats why I dont post as much, too hard to leave it all behind and remain objective

How true indeed.

As a new member, I can speak from the perspective of what I have garnered so far from GC's atmosphere.

The people are friendly, but rather standoffish to new members. We will ask questions and luckily get two responses, meanwhile threads by veterans of the forums will skyrocket in replies. It doesn't offend me as much as that possibly could -- the familiar will always supersede the unfamiliar. In my opinion though, it gives off a somewhat negative attitude to individuals such as myself.

I will not make these statements and not admit to how grateful I am though. Glider Nursery as been VERY helpful over PMs, my introduction thread was very heart-warming, all my questions were resolved in due time, and I picked up a Glider Buddy who I email regularly every day. So all in all, it was a very successful experience on my end. I just wanted to deposit my two cents on a portion of the issue I can comment on.



Edit: Spelling/Punctuation

I need a thoughtful looking smilie that is rubbing his chin...

I am going to go WAAYYYY out on a limb here, speaking as an old timer...and I am sure this is not how everyone feels...and PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not get offended...but perhaps
maybe
possibly
as old timers we have answered those same questions HUNDREDS of times, and quite frankly the answers are all already here if one just looks for them. Its different when its a question of a different angle, but when someone says "whats the best diet" or " what is better pouches or nesting boxes" or "is zucchini safe" I groan and say "not again"

Of course its different in an emergency. But even emergency threads should be titled correctly such as "HELP my glider is____" and not just "help" and then the question is "is zucchini safe" (which isnt an emergency)

So try to understand that sometimes us old timers get frustrated too. I check GC about 2 or 3 times a day, but I admit I dont always sign in, and I no longer reply to every thread like I used to.

No offense taken, but now it's my turn.

So please don't take offense.

Didn't you yourself at some point not know everything, and had to ask questions? Even though in this day and age a lot of questions have answers on the net or in books, they are always disputed elsewhere. It's confusing out here for new owners and enthusiasts.

If you yourself don't want to help others because it annoys you to see people barely struggle among the endless menagerie of disputed research and argumentative knowledge because, in your opinion, the answers are there; then that's okay.

GC didn't draft you to be a primary resource to aid others. It's not in the terms and conditions for you to volunteer know-how because of your activity level here or how long you've been posting on the forums. Plus no one is pointing fingers nor trying to say anyone is wrong or right in what they do.

I was just speaking from a new member's perspective, just as you spoke from your veteran's point of view. Glider Central advertises about how it's a community for sugar glider owners and lovers looking to connect and basically network; share ideas, stories, and et cetera. In my opinion, however, I just find it highly judgmental and a tad bit rude for folks to assume people don't look for answers, or research, or try to exhaust resources before asking questions. Not everyone is 100% savvy with the net, or reading, or locating others like them in their area to communicate with.

At the end of the day, the only dumb question is one not asked, and the only dumb answer is one never given.

Quite right, we as new members need to also be responsible for our own education, and that includes searching old threads and rereading previous posts before asking questions. I am just as guilty of merely asking questions without checking the appropriate threads, whether due to ignorance on my part or laziness.
We are our own best advocates and thereby the best (and only) advocate of our gliders. The weight of this responsibility cannot be emphasized enough.

[quote=Hamlet]
Quite right, we as new members need to also be responsible for our own education, and that includes searching old threads and rereading previous posts before asking questions. I am just as guilty of merely asking questions without checking the appropriate threads, whether due to ignorance on my part or laziness.
We are our own best advocates and thereby the best (and only) advocate of our gliders. The weight of this responsibility cannot be emphasized enough.

**2 cents** I asked Peggy(Srlb) lots of diet-related questions because I didn't think to look at older posts where the information was already available so I'm claiming ignorance.

[/quote]
**2 cents** I asked Peggy(Srlb) lots of diet-related questions because I didn't think to look at older posts where the information was already available so I'm claiming ignorance.

Not to mention the urgent or emergent times when a prompt response is of utmost Iimportance...

Wow, this thread has been busy! I am absolutely loving the dialog between everyone.

Our community has changed. An example of what occurred in a post 5+ years ago is a perfect example of how things are not done here today. We learn, we grow, we move forward. As KarenE said, we will always maintain as drama free environment as we can on GliderCENTRAL. We truly are here for the owners and the gliders. If we live in the past, we'll never improve the future. And that's what we want to do. Take a look around (those that are more veteran members), you can clearly see a change here. Less activity for one, which we hope to increase, and a significant lack of drama. We want this to continue being a fun and educational resource for glider owners everywhere. We can only do that with our wonderful members!

I'm very disheartened to read that newbies feel that we (members in general) are being standoffish with them. This is something that I will most definitely be keeping an eye on. We want everyone to feel like every question they ask is worth our time in answering. Yes, I agree, sometimes it does get old answering the same ol, same ol. But we need to do it anyway, either by giving a quality response or simply linking to a previous post with the same information.

I have to say that I have a new perspective of the newbies out there. Since I joined her 7 years ago, I definitely no longer fit the newbie category. However, since this year venturing into a new pet species, I am a newbie in every sense of the word there. I am asking those "same ol, same ol" questions. And I quickly thought to myself, I really need to remember what it was like to be in their shoes when I respond here on GliderCENTRAL.

One thing to consider though, right now there aren't a lot of different veteran owners here. So if one adequately answers a question, I probably won't join in on that thread unless I have something additional to offer. So please don't think its because we are being standoffish, it may be because the question was already answered. If it wasn't, then having this brought to our attention, we'll be sure to try to be more proactive from now on.

Hamlet, as far as a mobile version, or an app for GliderCENTRAL, it unfortunately isn't available to us right now. I wish it were, because you are right, technology is heavily moving in that direction. When and if it ever becomes available through the program, you can bet that we will look into it and decide if we feel it a 'safe' avenue to take (potential security issues, etc.).

Again to reiterate what KarenE said, if any of you have any suggestions to enhance and improve GliderCENTRAL, please let either of us know! We are working on a few things to 'fun it up' around here now. We're all ears!

with Shelly.

I started a facebook group for my state and asked veteran community members from other states to join in order to help the new glider owners. We are frequently answering the same questions, but I am okay with that. As a mentor and a glider owner of over 7 1/2 years, I am more than happy to help people & gliders. I often tell people there are no stupid questions & to ask me anything...if I don't know the answer I'll help them find it. I'm also trying to be more active on the forums, but that is coming slowly...lol. I had a very long break from the majority of the online glider world and have been trying to inch my way back.

And we are very happy to have you visiting more often!

If I was a little more tech savvy in the programming area, I'd do it, but all I can do is program a simple calculator protocol before I start throwing things across the room, haha. Trying to program a mobile site for tablets and phones is beyond me. Ask me to fix the older electronics though, and there's a good shot I can get that old NES working....

Hmmm...may have to find an old NES and send it your way...I miss Q*Bert & Super Mario Bros.!!!

Nicole:


As Shelly said, there are many times a question has a few replies before I read it for the first time - if I feel the reply has answered the question I do not see any reason to repeat what has been said. If I feel a point has been left out, or if some of the reply is incorrect - they I add any additional information to complete the answer or clarify what has been said.

There were times in the past when a question was answered and 30 additional "I agree" responses followed - none of which added any additional information to the reply to the original post - but some folks thought they had to bump up their post count by putting SOMETHING in each and every topic. Thankfully, we seem to have out grown that phase as a community.

As for the many replies to threads by veterans of the forum, most of those are leaning toward a general conversation rather than just asking a question.

The two types of threads are very different - a specific question needs an answer. A thread that introduces an idea that will generate many additional thoughts along the same lines (such as this thread) leads to a more prolonged discussion. I do not think the number of replies is directly tied to the original poster being a 'newby' or a 'veteran'

Personally I find the few face book pages I have stumbled on to be disjointed and confusing. I would have to spend 24/7 reading all the pages trying to glean a bit of specific information from the scattered ideas and topics.

At least here, I can read and respond to topics that interest me or that I feel I can help others with - and I don't have to read topics and discussions in other areas of the forum where I would have little information to add. There is structure to the forum which works well for me.

And I didnt mind one bit.

I really do not mind helping folks out, new or seasoned owners. No matter how 'seasoned' an owner can be, there are ALWAYS new things to learn and sometimes those new things, or new ideas are brought to us from the 'newbies'.

I was just speaking with someone tonight and we were talking about how they were going to remove their question on the facebook group they posted in because she didnt want drama started up. It was about offering something new to feed to her gliders.

She sent me a private message, although I was 80% sure of the answer, I wasnt 100% sure so I sent an email to one of the nutritionists I work with and asked. I received the answer and tonight we BOTH (new and seasoned alike) learned something new and not by using 'google degrees' but by actually contacting people who are schooled in these areas.

We, as a whole, need to be able to work together. Whether you have the 'been there, done that, got the t-shirt' or not. Just because one may have the shirt to wear doesnt mean the one asking questions has a shirt.

I am like Shelly though, if I see a question has already been helped, and the information is correct, I will not respond. If I feel I can add to it, or to correct it, I will step in and do so. IF it is a correction, or something *I* personally do not do, I will explain why so others can understand. Sometimes I will also ask you to explain to me why you feel the way you do. Who knows, through explanations one of us or both of us may learn something new and change the way we do things or the way we think about something.

That's honestly amazing! Technology in the way of programming or repair is so baffling to me I could call it Greek

And I agree emergencies are certainly cases where any question is as urgent and as important whether it has been answered or not.

I merely wanted to emphasize that newbies should contribute to the relationship between themselves and veterans as well, instead of merely relying on veterans to do all the work all of the time. This is not a criticism, but an epiphany based in my own behavior here on the forums. If such an intercourse is wholly one-sided, you can be sure, like any relationship, it will degrade.

Shelley, (great name btw, you share that distinction with one of my favorite poets!) thank you for addressing my suggestion, and I sincerely hope the technology is available in the future. If not perhaps an overall of the program could be considered?

Non taken
To clarify: I was not being judgmental nor assuming that people havent looked for answers. Keep in mind I was speaking of specific TYPES or questions that are easily answered when one looks.

And you are right about volunteering time. My time playing with my gliders in very short and very valuable, which is why I spend less time here. I also do not need the drama, as small as it may be here, as my life has plenty already.

And you are correct that I didnt know everything in the beginning and I still dont. And I have never refrained from helping someone who has emailed or PMd me directly. But I just dont have the time to answer that many posts asking things where the answer is not an emergency or is easily found. Many others do have the time. In fact. I am signing out now as my Arwen is calling for me, and life is tiring, as is this thread, I just dont have the energy for this.

^this
and Shelley is a great name, but for me, because of a beloved cat named Shelley
PS Arwen allowed me to sign in for this response, she likes Hamlet too

I just find it one sided to begrudge either side of a defense. Just as it is not fully the oldies fault for forum nonsense, it is unfair to assume only newbies have issues adjusting.

Oh and yes Hamlet has a point, but that point goes both ways and I hope everyone realizes this as well. It's just as bad to have a handful of new members excited to forge bonds but no veterans around to reciprocate because of a menagerie of excuses. Everyone has lives in this world, some difficult and some fairly versatile; yet even so, there's always someone with some time to share here.

Upon that, I exit the conversation.

Yay Arwen likes me!!! I'm sort of in love with her.

Our goal here at GliderCENTRAL is to make everyone feel warm and welcome. Our hopes is that everyone feels comfortable coming here and asking questions, offering advice or opinions, and just in general, helping one another. We all have a common goal here, and that is to make the best lives for our sugar gliders. "For the Good of the Glider" Realize that not everyone is going to see your personal point of view, there will be differences of opinions, and sometimes those will come out rather passionately. Don't take it to heart, take all of the information as its being offered, as help from others that are simply offering their opinions and experiences.

We strive to maintain as drama free, fun, and educational environment that we can. We can't force people to come here and post, newbies and veterans alike, we can only open the door and invite them in. All we ask is that everyone is respectful of each other (following the rules). So, the door is wide open and we do invite those that truly want to help each other out, to come here to learn and forge friendships. I have to say that the best friend I've ever had in my life, I "met" here on GliderCENTRAL. Although we live a state apart, we do visit and get together whenever we can. This site has brought so much into peoples lives, we just want to continue to bring as much positive as we can. I truly appreciate each one of our members for what they contribute there, whether it be only asking a question or two, or those that provide the help and experience to those that are in need. You see, we are a big, happy family. It may not be as big or active as it was in years past, but we are still here for each other.

I wholeheartedly agree, and can aver that this has been my experience here. I am truly thankful to all those who were kind enough to wish me well, and take the time to offer their knowledge, experience, and advice.

Here's to the renaissance of the GC to come!

It's places like these that need preserving, they are the villages that raise us

Wow!