GliderCENTRAL

When will she quit biting?

Posted By: Anonymous

When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 07:38 PM


Just acquired a pair of female Sugar Gliders approx.17wks old. I make the 3rd owner in 6wks and I suspect it is because they had been bought on impulse at our local Fair and someone did not realize what they had gotten themselves into.
Before even acquiring them I read up on them as much as I knew to before deciding I wanted a pair of them.Knowing that they should be taken on at a younger age I thought perhaps they were still young enough to handle and turn into the loving and devoted pet they can be.
When I picked them up,they were not willing to let the previous owner even stick their hand into the cage. . . I have over come this for the most part.
In the two days I have had them. . I have been keeping them in my neck pouch and close to me for approx.7-8hrs aday. Throughout that time I massage the bag and talk to them. I stick my hand in and massage them. Sometimes I will even take them out of the pouch(though they fight the handling) to massage and talk to them.(when I return them to the pouch they instantly settle back in to sleep) I get crabbing that is sometimes combined with a slight hiss but that seems to be lessening.
Thing is,one of these females seem more aggressive than the other and is more bitey! The other one is more passive but does nip from time to time but nothing like the more aggressive one.
I've read that if I ignore the biting they will learn that biting does not achieve the results they intended and will quit biting. Today she acted like she might be figuring that out and that the bites weren't working,she quit for a bit today and I thought we had reached an understanding but she resumed with bites that now draw blood.
I KNOW that 2 days of ownership is way toooo soon to expect much and I'm very grateful for what I have accomplished thus far BUT when can I expect this kind of blood drawing biting to cease altogether?
Though I did not buy any Sugar Gliders while the Fair was in town I have stayed in touch with the breeder who was selling them and he warned me that before I got this pair I needed to test them and see if they would allow handling without biting and more or less told me that if they bite to leave them alone. . . should I have listened to him?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 07:47 PM

I have a girl that bit bad. Drew blood once on a friend. So she gave me this little plastic stick.. Its like a plastic coffee stirrer..hard plastic.. So She would expose the biter. Pull the pouch sides down, no blankies o anything to hide under and gently move the stirrer close to her. She would bite the stirrer. Eventually she would figure out it doesnt do any good and would bury her head. This is the point where she would pet her head but keep the stirrer in hand still in case a sudden movement. This was for a very pouch protective girl! Within a few min, my girl has resigned to knowing she was going to get petted. Its been almost 3 weeks since that incident and I dont get bit and RARELY get crabbed at. If your girl is going in a pouch, I suggest not alloing the pouch. This friend gave me a plastic basket you can buy at Dollar general. I used C clips and put it ont he side up in the cage. I have a pic Ill show you. I can check on her easily by pulling aside the cover over it. She does crab occasionally since its rather bright but I dont get bit. I still have the stirrer on hand just in case..

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/tattedjoe/Amandas%20pics/Picture1052.jpg
http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u265/tattedjoe/Amandas%20pics/Picture1051.jpg

I still wont bring myself to pick the girl up and I have gotten her to share her pouch with me If I put her in a bonding pouch. there is not regular pouch allowed in her cage. This is what works for my girl. Just an idea.:)

Good luck and hopefully this home works out for them,:)
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 07:48 PM

Who is this breeder?

She could learn to stop biting in a few days to a year or so. It all depends on the glider and how you handle her.

I have two rescues that would bite and it took them around a year to figure out that biting doesnt get them anywhere. Now I get a nibble every now and then and I'm okay with that.

I noticed you live in Texas, we are having a get together this wkend in Dallas if you are close by and would like to meet some ore suggie owners.
Posted By: MissSarah

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 07:50 PM

First off, Welcome to GC! You've found an awesome source of info on these little guys!

Generally, you should leave them alone for the first two or three days. Just to let them get acclimated to their new home. The fact that they've been through so many homes in such a short period of time has probably stressed them out in a big time way. Sounds to me like they're just scared.

I would carry them in the pouch and sit by the cage and talk to them softly, but I wouldn't try holding them at this point especially if they're biting. They're doing it because they're frightened. Not because theyre trying to be mean or they dislike you. lol

Again, welcome to GC and someone else will be around soon with more info. smile
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 07:56 PM

NO! Don't list to him! We purchased an older pair (6 months) three weeks ago. She crabbed and lunged and tried to bit through the pouch the whole 5 hours it took us to get home! He slept through it all. We were rather disappointed because they were nothing like our son's sweet Molly, who jumps and kisses everyone and climbs all over our son. I was getting bit every time I tried to put my hand in the cage for the first week, drawing blood! Even my husband was bit hard enough to draw blood on his tough fingers! It was so disheartening. Then, I found a suggestion from Bourbon to use apple chicken baby food as a lickey treat. We have dubbed it liquid gold, because the very first time we tried it, no bites at all! It only took three days and she was so gentle with her licks, and occasional cleaning under finger nails, sort of nips, that it was miraculous! In just three weeks, we can take her out of the pouch and she will lay on a fleece blanket, we think she may have been traumatized some how, because waking up in a hand freaks her out, and let us pet her and rub her. A few times earlier, she got away from us and hid behind out entertainment center, well, this weekend, she jumped on me, a first, and then onto the cage, but she did not try to run away! We are just amazed at the progress they have made in just the three weeks!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/09/09 10:45 PM

6 months is OLDER? Wow.. My trio is ancient then!

Haha

Here is a link. Read through her stuff. It really does work for most people. AGain, all gliders are different and not every method works for the same glider.. but its worth a shot.:)

http://www.angelfire.com/nb/sugarglider/bonding.html

sounds like a PPP to me! 17 wks old and already three homes!?
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 12:08 AM

well, I am happy to hear that C.B. and Foehn are just youngsters! :-) I was just comparing them to 8wks oop little guys, with not much history... Hey, we're still new to this and learning all the time!:-) Just know how it feels not to have that cute little guy lovin you, like you seem to hear everyone's do... And realize how quickly they can gain your trust if you just don't give up!
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 01:31 AM

Please be patient with your little ones. You have only had them 2 days and to them you are still a big scary monster.

One thing you might try is leaving them in their cage most of the day so they can get a full day of sleep. Just carry them for an hour or two tops for now. Even an animal will be more cranky when they do not get enough sleep.

Get a small screen tent so you can let them explore you on their terms in the evening. coax them to you with treats now and then in the tent.

Just give them time to adjust before expecting them to be willing to play with you.
Posted By: jen102375

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 01:36 AM

i had crabby one but now he`s a sweet heart! so give it some time we all went through it
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 02:10 AM

First of all....welcome to GC. You are in the right place for answers to all your questions and concerns.

now....I have two rescued twin sisters that are now 6 years old. When I got them last year they had not been handled very much at all. One sister I can pick up, pet etc with nothing happening...her sister is another story. It depends on what kind of mood she is in....she still crabs when disturbed, when picking her up her hard bites have turned into gentle nips.Does she want to be handled? Not really...but at least she doesn't have the "attitude" she used to have! lol
Keep in mind, your's are still very young and could come around a lot faster. I don't think having to work with mine for a year was asking too much at all. I knew I could be in for a long ride!
Try licky treats like applesauce or yogurt so they get used to you and your fingers. Many more should have thoughts and stories on this I'm sure.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 04:38 PM

I'm not really wanting to name the breeder because he had nothing to do with this particular situation. I have stayed in touch with him even after our Fair left town and I have emailed him with numerous "911" emails and he has been so good to help me.
Seems as though through the process of these little girls being "passed around" thus making me the 3rd owner in 6wks a CD that came with them at the time of sales has either been lost or forgotten. Had I had this CD,some things might have been better explained.
My life is so full now that I couldn't possibly make time for a 5hr trip. (I live in Amarillo,Tx. . . upper portion of the Texas Panhandle.) Thanks for the invite.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 04:49 PM

Oh I want these things to love me back so much that I tend to get discouraged by this one's actions. Holding babies at the time I discovered them at our Fair they seemed so much more loving and accepting which I suppose is the reason it is better to try and bond at 7-11wks as the breeder and all I read on line states.
I think you give some sound advise because they haven't really been living a true Sugar Glider's life the past few days.
They will come and go throughout the day and they will sleep longer than I would suspect during the night.
The house where these little creatures were at when I picked them up had 3 small children,2 cats and 3 dogs,all of which were around the Sugar Glider cage all the time and no doubt caused the Sugar Gliders some unrest.
Thank You.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 05:00 PM

I've tried offering Peanut Butter and Raisins as suggested by some online Sugar Glider Websites and they won't even come close to it.
One Sugar Glider did take a raisin but that didn't last long.
I'm really excited about trying your apple chicken baby food idea. I'm guessing that I am to mix this from 2 jars?
As I replied to another poster. . . I "rescued" these little girls from a home where there were 3 small children,2 cats and 3 dogs. . all of which had full access to the Sugar Glider cage and I'm sure these poor little girls didn't have much in the way of a surroundings condusive to their natural routine.
When I picked these girls up,the previous owner could not even put their hand into the cage without very very aggressive posing,hissing and crabbing. Yesterday on day 2 of ownership I can put my hand in and not a single one of them displays this behavior.I keep my hand at a short distance from them and allow them to meet my hand on their terms and they will lean out to sniff and they go about their business.
To make things less traumatic on them I put their pouch in the cage for them so that I can now handle them from the cage to around my neck without much disruption and it sure seems to be working better. Very little if any crabbing when I scooped them up to put them around my neck to carry them today.
NO crabbing today as I stick my hand into the pouch to "massage" and talk to them. Gives me encouragement BUT I'm going to let this get me too excited where making progress is concerned.

Thanks for your receipe.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 05:31 PM

Originally Posted By: Greatestgrammie
Oh I want these things to love me back so much that I tend to get discouraged by this one's actions. Holding babies at the time I discovered them at our Fair they seemed so much more loving and accepting which I suppose is the reason it is better to try and bond at 7-11wks as the breeder and all I read on line states.


An older glider can bond just as easily as young joey. Its all a trust game with gliders. Once they learn to trust you they will start to bond.

Dont worry, hang in there and continue to love them and they will come around.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/10/09 05:40 PM

Valorie is right....it does take time. When they finally build up that trust with you it will be something you will treasure for a long long time! Just be patient.

Do you love and trust someone the first day you are with them? It takes time! laugh It's not the destination but the journey!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/11/09 02:09 AM

YES purplekat61 I have been known to fall in love in 2 days. . . and had to work on that as hard as I"m working on this. . . Please tell me they aren't the same. LOL LOL crazy
I know that I'm expecting too much too soon as per what I'm told and in all reality,the fact that I can even stick my hand in the cage and don't get the posturing,hissing and crabbing is a milestone as far as I'm concerned.
Today I held the girls in their carrying pouch for about 3hrs before going to work and only had a minimal amount of crabbing.
On my way home from work I stopped and picked up some chicken and apple/cherry baby food as it was recommended and mixed it up in equal amounts. As I went in to say HI to the girls I opened up the pouch to see them,I assume that the crankiest Sugar Glider started her crabbing and as she stuck her head out to nip she found this chicken/apple cherry mixture on my finger and she commence to lap it up. OH I feel like I've really accomplished something and though I know it is going to have to be an ongoing process for a bit before she quits nipping/biting altogether I want to bask in my glory! dance
EVERYBODY that has responded to my initial question. . . THANK YOU ! ! ! I'll keep you updated.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/11/09 04:24 AM

MrsBerg. . . Cudo's to you and your "liquid gold" !!!!

I tried a mixture of chicken/apple-cherry. They could not get enough and I enjoyed their "easiness" so much I could have sit and let them eat every bit of both jars mixed together but I didn't think that to be a very good idea.
I managed to coax them out of their bag and before you knew it I was able to let them crawl on the ground around me while I sat on the floor in front of their cage.
One of them did walk around my legs a bit before crawling to the cage all by herself. . .cage was only about 8-10 inches from my legs.
I finally held the other one in my hand after she too walked around my legs a bit and she jumped about 6-8 inches to get to the cage.
I can not believe the progress I have made in just 3 days now. . course I'm not taking it as I have totally conquered anything as I am sure it is going to take more than this one time to make things run as smooth as I am striving for them to BUT it sure feels gratifying.
THANK YOU FOR THIS VERY VERY WONDERFUL TIP !!!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/12/09 08:45 PM

Well,it's day 5. MrsBerg's "liquid gold" is doing it's trick for which I'm relieved.
"the girls" have almost quit crabbing when I massage their pouch when I carry them around. They have almost quit crabbing at me when I stick my hand into the pouch to massage them and there is NO crabbing when I stick my hand into the cage.

Now my new question would be. . . should I be leaving the cored apple slices in the cage where they have as much access to it as they do their feed?
The last 2 nights I have provided their feed,slices of sweet potato and about 1/4 of an apple. The last 2 mornings I see that the fruit/veggie is gone but there has been little of their feed gone. Should I limit veggies/fruits to say maybe every other day?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/13/09 06:43 PM

The start of day 6 and I know that most of you are probably getting tired of daily reports but because I feel like I'm making such progress in what I see to be a short period of time. . . I AM EXCITED and feeling REASSURED!
My question about the "girls" not eating as much of their feed as they did their veggies/fruit has seemed to be resolved. They ate a fair amount of their feed last night and only about half of the banana piece that I gave them so I'm feeling better about this issue.
Last night I heard my first barking and was truly surprised that my 2 dogs did not get up to go investigate. Barking didn't seem to last long and maybe that is because I didn't respond to it. Should I have responded to it to reassure them? Is there a specific answer as to the age of Sugar Gliders when they first start barking?( Knowing this would help me to get a closer idea as to the age of my girls.)
The most aggressive little girl will now climb almost all of the way out of the cage when she see's that I have "liquid gold" on my fingers. . .nothing that I would have thought possible 5 days ago. I can not begin to thank MrsBerg enough for this hint! ! !
Greeting the girls this morning there is NO CRABBING! They remain asleep in their pouch as I reach in to massage them and talk to them. . . again,something that I would have been able to do 5 days ago.
I still get nips from both of the girls but having had blood drawn with bites I am more attuned to the fact that nips can turn into blood drawing bites so I really watch the nipping.


Oh yeah,yesterday as I took the feed box out of the plastic bag inwhich I brought it home in,I found the CD that was sold along with the Sugar Gliders and their starter cage/supplies AND I found a book that was recommended to me by a local pet store so that issue is now resolved.

I would like to post my own Glider Central "avatar" identifying pic but can't figure out how to get there to do so. Any suggestions?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/14/09 04:28 PM

I sure would like some feedback as to whether over the last 6 days I've made some progress with my new little girls.
If I am doing something wrong I would like to change it now verses later.

I would like to post a pic for my identifying Avatar and can't seem to find where to do that. . . can someone tell me how to go about this?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 04:09 PM

I have asked the Board to resign my account.
I have asked help in posting my own personal pic as my Avatar and haven't received a word.
In case I'm not doing well with my new little girls I have made daily updates on what has been going on since I acquired my pair 9 days ago and have asked for some feed back and have received none.
I am feeling as though this website is for the selected few and that I apparently am not one of them.
I will seek advise elsewhere,rely on the research I did for over 7 wks before acquiring the girls or will just rely on my own trials and tribulations.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 04:37 PM

you have gotten some good advice on here, i dont know
why you want to leave the board so fast, give up, so to
speak, just because nobody responded within your time frame?
i dont get it, but hope you decide to stay.
you can contact the owners via pm abt. the avatar, i dont
know how to do it myself.
you have made great progress with your babies, it took me over 6 mos. to bond with a 8 week oop male i received over a
year ago, he was a pit bull biter(lunges, bites, does not
let go, draws blood, etc).
i do have a question abt. your gliders diet you mention
feed with the fruits and veg. what kind of diet do you
have them on, there are alot of approved diets on here.
they need their protein-boiled chicken, eggs, meal worms,
crickets(that you can get on line here from caeelin)
they need calcium supplements and vits.& minerals depending on what diet you have them on. i feed the suncoast diet which has a soft pellet and
a new hard pellet(mine get both) plus their fruits/veg. protein every night but you have to watch the calcium/phos. ratio.
check out the approved diets for gliders and pick one out that appeals to you.
regards,
nancy in detroit
p.s. have you checked out the classified, alot of people
sale homemade toys, pouches, crickets, etc on here and
they are made safe for our suggies.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 04:40 PM

Grammie...I'm sorry you feel that way but it is so untrue!
I think you aren't getting any new responses because you need to start new posts.
I don't often re-visit old posts to see what has been happening but often check out "new" ones. This is especially true if I don't add the thread to my "watched" list.
I think there is a section in the FAQ about the avatars. I only have a stock one because I havn't figured out how to upload my own photo yet....
I think the progress you are making is good but like everyone else has said patience is the key. My girls sometimes swing all around on the crabbing. One day they can't get enough of me and the next it's like I'm the devil. I'm starting to think the things they say about moon phases might have some truth..lol. I have only had them for 3 months so I just keep plugging along knowing that someday things will all smooth out!
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 04:40 PM

Why dont you READ posts? You can learn a LOT from reading. I know when I was a newbie all I did was read read read.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 06:30 PM

I don't expect anyone to fit in my time frame but with all of the advertised members I would think that maybe someone somewhere could offer the feedback I was asking for.
I spent weeks researching Sugar Gliders before taking these girls on and I have the book knowledge but don't have a bit of hands on. As a new comer I would think people would be jumping at the chance to help me.
I have the girls on a packaged protein diet,using the vit/minerals that came with them. I have offered banana,raisins,yellow squash,mashed hard boiled eggs and low fat plain yogurt to which they turn up their noses.
Right now I supplement their protein diet with apple,sweet potato,some applesauce and have some Mango fruit to offer them later this week as I find they will go for the supplements before touching their protein diet.

I'm not needing any toys,pouches etc right now as it is as I told you,before starting this whole experience I researched for weeks and was prepared for them before I took them on. . . it's the hands on that I am wanting help/feed back on. I don't want to start any bad habits that will be harder to change later on.

Thank You
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 06:33 PM

You need to get them on an approved diet. You can go to the diet links for that.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 06:38 PM

I truly thought that I WAS putting in a "new post" everytime I posted something. . .my mistake and as soon as I can figure out how to make a NEW post I'll do that BUT it sure seems as though I got several replies when I posted a comment in the same area I've posted on since joining GC. . .how did that work and all of the other posts I made got no responses except for my first day?
With the weeks of online research that I did before acquiring these little girls all I have is book knowledge.It is the hands on that is abit scary for which I sought help. It is the progress I think I'm making that I wanted feedback on.IF I am doing something wrong I want to know now before it becomes a bad habit that needs to be changed now verses later.
All of my research told me it would take time and I knew this when I got the girls and with the exception of the "liquid gold" suggestion I got,all I have gotten is the repetitive comment. . . Give it Time. . It takes Patience.

Thanks
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 06:52 PM

greatestgrammie, to post a "new" post, you go to the forum topic you want, click on "new Post" and you can then post your post... Does that make sense?
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 06:56 PM

First you need to get them on an approved diet.

Secondly it DOES take time and patience. That is the BIGGEST tip we can give you. laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 07:03 PM

I have read several posts or so I thought I had. . . even gave replies when I thought I had something to offer.
Before making the decision to take on Sugar Gliders I researched everything I could find on the web and with that felt confident to take them on. I have ALOT of book knowledge,it's the hands on that is scaring me.
Just as in taking home a new born infant there is going to be circumstances that come up that not even the deepest research will be able to address so new mothers reach out to those that are more experienced. . . . my efforts to reach out has been no less.
The advice that I've rec'd on here is the same repetitious comment. . . It takes Time and Be Patient. I knew this when I took the venture on.
MrsBerg is the only one to help my very first post by offering the suggestion of what she dubs to be "liquid gold" and it has worked miracles to help me to get acquainted with my new girls and to get them settled in with new surroundings and their new care giver/protector.
We are not anywhere close to having bonded but MrsBerg's advice has been the Main Ingredient to get us started on that and is the kind of help I thought I would be getting when I joined this forum.
IF I continue to stay I certainly hope that as my experience with Sugar Glider's develop I hope I can be of the utmost help to the "New Joey" with more than giving the same ole worn out advise of It Takes Time. . . Be Patient. I think most have forgotten their first experience with Sugar Gliders and how nervous they were and now take some things for granted.

Thank You

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 07:40 PM

Like I said before, I have only had my "kids" for 3 months so trust me I have not fogotten anything!!! The fear the worry etc.
If you are going to use the new born infant senario then what you are asking of us "experienced mothers" is: "It's day 10...why is my baby still crying??" Because it's a baby!! It's going to cry from day 1 to day 101...no miracle liquid gold cure that we can offer up is going to change the fact that it really is PATIENCE and doing the things you are already doing everyday from now until forever that is going to make the difference!!
I get the feeling that is what you are looking for is a miracle bonding agent and it just does not exist!

Beyond the "liquid Gold" there are many other "bribe" foods that you can give them. My girls love flavored yogert (peach, strawberry and blueberry...they hate the cherry for some reason), they love the berry flavored yoggies (yogert chips) that you can get at Petsmart and they love the canned mealies also from petsmart. But you are going to have to bribe them today, tomorrow and probably 100's of tomorrows more.

Try to remember that gliders (just like people and cats and dogs etc) all have very different personalitites and don't all warm up to people at the same rate. I have 7 cats and let me tell you I have some that you can't make go away and some that almost ignore me completly and don't really want to be petted. I raised them all the same loving way but they are just different animals from each other. This is true for gliders too and so the honest to gosh truth is that Patience is really the ONLY "miracle" you can count on!!

I'm sorry if I can't offer more help that that! frown
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 07:41 PM

I completely agree with CalamityAnnie!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 07:45 PM

Oh we remember what it was like....which is why you keep getting the same advice. Through Experience we have learned from hearing it "over and over" again....it is more of a "hug" it will get better for you and they will get there but you MUST give it time. We cant offer advice on what to do to get a suggie to quit biting, or crabbing or anything else in one day. They have a time track of their very own. Like raising children...and look how long THAT takes! lol and they spend most of their lives grippng and snapping about everything! We still love them and give them time to "grow up" and stop crabbing! We would hate to see you leave our forum. There is much to read and learn. The old saying....."you learn something new everyday" holds true for the suggie community also. Give us a shot! smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 08:15 PM

Why is it that I talk about getting off this website that I finally get the feedback that I've been asking 3 days for?
NOT looking for a Miracle Instant Bond,just wondering if what I'm doing is right and that's ALL I wanted.
A new infant's parent finds out that driving around the block will put a restless baby to sleep BUT in the end it may not be the best thing. I offer this "liquid gold" and I go against all of the first day's advise and instead of leaving the girls alone to learn their new environment I have made a conscious effort to more or less "hound" them with being around my neck in their pouch,massaging/talking to that pouch and slowly getting them use to my touch by sticking my hand into that pouch from time to time to massage,touch and talk to them AND only want to know that I'm not the well meaning parent driving around the block and doing more harm than good.
I think too by posting day by day what was going on I was looking for a few encouraging words,maybe some more helpful hints or tricks and maybe a pat on the back for those things that I was doing that was working.
As a Grammie to 4 grandkids I know that there is experience from raising 3 children that I can pass on and I would suspect the same from Veteran Sugar Glider owners. This is all I'm asking. Book knowledge only goes so far. . it's the hands on that is going to last a lifetime. . the Sugar Glider's and mine.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 08:33 PM

BTW,here's another example of what I am talking about.
I go online to answer questions and share my knowledge/experience with chickens/ducks as I have both.
I answer questions as to when the poster will know if their chick is a hen or a rooster,when they will hear the rooster crow for the first time,when the hen will start to lay,methods to keep their chicks warm til feathered out,different suggestions on supplemental food,teaching them to go to the hen house to roost. I give suggestions as to what they might be doing wrong in their feedings or what kind of bedding to use in their nesting boxes. I NEVER NEVER tell anyone to be patient,it takes time. I give them as much information as I can to help them and have even had some to send me pictures of their coops/pens so I could help them to find better alternatives.Book knowledge is good but hands on experience is even better.
I will take a chicken/duck poster through the process of raising from the daythe Momma bird lays the egg,incubates the egg ,the hatching/drying process,feathering out,being ready to be placed out in the coop/pen to their feeding all the way up to the egg laying and into breeding. I don't leave anything out and I leave myself open to other questions they have and they all leave with knowledge.
This is the kind of help I thought I'd be getting from GC forum. I thought maybe if I was doing something wrong someone would tell me and offer me a better solution.I thought that they could give me some insight as to waht to expect with what I was posting.
My mistake for assuming cuz we all know what it means to assume.

Thanks
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 08:43 PM

Two questions I posed and have not gotten any feedback on are:
1) I leave their feed and their treats in the cage but in the morning I notice that they eat more of their treat than their feed.Should I be feeding less treat until they eat their feed?

2) I am only guessing at their ages verses what was told by the Breeder at the time of sale up to now. Do they start barking at a particular age or do they do this from time of weaning?


Any help or feedback on those questions? I find nothing in paperback books or online about these topics.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 08:47 PM

Answers:

1) You need to put them on an approved diet. That should help with some of what they are eating.

2) They can bark from any age. Some do this a lot and some do not.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:07 PM

The original question that this thread is about was biting. "When will she quit biting??" and the answers you were given about the biting and the bonding were appropriate answers to THAT question. The appropriate answer to that specific question IS Time and Patience.
If you have other specific questions about the eating, the diet, the barking or anything else you would be better off starting a new post.
If you want to figure out about barking I would go to the section on behavour and anatomy and start a thread something like "Weird nightime barking. Normal???", then you will get answers specifically about the barking issue. Same for the feeding question.
Many people don't follow posts from beginning to the end and it can be difficult to get answers to a wide variety of problems when many people don't have all the answers to ALL of the prbolems you may have (especially when looking from the "outside" of the post the question seems to be about biting!).
Me, for example, I am not the diet "expert" around here. I don't do recepies or have any tips for you. If you posted a question in the diet section you would get LOTS of different answers.
I would suggest that you start some new threads in different catagories and see the kind of response you get. Make LOTS of different posts about lots of different questions. Im sure you know from having chickens as well that you cannot get every answer to everything there is to know about chickens and raising them from one post, one question or in 9 days.
Posted By: Berg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:16 PM

I'm not sure what you mean by treats exactly. Before we changed ours from a pellet diet that the breeder fed them to the Blended Diet, we did put in fruits and veggies in their cage along with their pellets. Once you know their likes and dislikes it will be easier to know what to put in there. In general, though, ours now eat their Blended Diet and all of their fruits and veggies (as long as its stuff they like). For example, our guys love carrots, but aren't too crazy about peas. On the fruit side, they go crazy for papaya but will eat most fruit.

About the barking, it seems in most cases it's them communicating to each other, and probably can start at any point, certainly by the age of your gliders. Our girl barks at night sometimes, basically to tell her brother to get his butt out of the pouch and play! If I come out to check on her she stops. I don't think we have ever heard them bark during the day. They were 6 months old on Saturday, and they have barked since we got them 5 weeks ago.

BTW, you will eventually hear other sounds other than crabbing and barking. We're not sure what they all mean yet, but it's neat to hear them.
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:19 PM

Calamity Annie, that is this is the first "helpful" post to answer Grammie's questions. I am really a newbie when it comes to forums and, if my husband hadn't been here to show me how to navigate, I would have done exactly what Grammie did. Perhaps, instead of jumping on what diet it is people are using, etc., it might be more helpful and less intimidating to a new comer if someone just told them how to navigate this forum. Some of you post comments that are sounding very condescending, and that does no one any good. It only serves to alienate the very people who need your help.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:32 PM

There was no jumping on her diet. She stated what she fed, and I told her she needed to be on an approved diet. That is not "jumping". CalamityAnnie was trying to help her by telling her that she does need to post else where. That IS HELPING.
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:44 PM

MizValorie, you did not read my post. I agreed that Calamity Annie helped her by telling her how to navigate the forum. I am sorry, I did not necessarily mean "jumping on Grammie for her diet, though you posted several replies in which all you said is that she needed to get on an approved diet.i meant that, sometimes the people on this site tend not to read the posts very carefully, fixate on one thing and either ignore the original question, or come across very intimidating, or condescending, which is very off putting. The written word does not come across as it would were you face to face....
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:53 PM

I don't think the "condesending" comment MrsBerg made was aimed at anyone specifically...
although, I think in fairness I must add that it doesn't make any friends either to come out and say your leaving a forum because in essence we are snobs who don't like to help people...

The diet topic is unfortunaltly one of the most hotly contested issues and always seems to be a murky pond to swim in....which is why I stay away from posting on that topic specifically smile This forum has a very firm rule about "diet bashing" and I think that most people are trying to walk the line by not infering that the diet you're feeding (if it is the one we all think it is, considering it came with your gliders...from a fair..)is probably not that great and you would be better off switching to something more balanced.

The other reason to post in different areas is because as you can see now this post is 2 pages long and many people don't have the interest to read through two pages of posts only to find that they have nothing new to offer or that the answer they had was already given. Posting new topics keeps everything short and gets you the best chance of differnt ideas from differnt people.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:53 PM

If you have issues with me as you obviously do why dont you (or your husband, who ever it is) take this to pms, which you have already started? Just because you don't like the way I post does not mean that "people on this site" ignore, or intimidate people.

Also I would like to point out that only twice did I mention a need for an approved diet, and one was to a DIRECT question.
Posted By: Akane

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 09:57 PM

This prepackaged diet you have wouldn't be glide r chow would it? Little light brown flat dry circles. Cause this sounds like a ppp setup. Selling at fairs, giving a cd, prepackaged food.... Those guys can be real convincing that you are talking to the actual breeder when it's actually just an employee of the company. They also give bad advice and [censored] diets.

As for treats it's kind of like giving a kid a slice of cake or ice cream with their dinner. What are they going to eat first? Then they will be full and you'll have nothing to bribe them with to eat their veggies. Plus they'll just keep begging for dessert the next time so it will get worse and worse until they don't eat any healthy foods unless you draw the line. Healthy dinner first, treats later, and not too much or they won't be hungry enough for more nutritious food.

Most of your chicken examples won't work because those are just facts not people asking how to tame a chicken. Even if they did it's much simpler since just feeding chickens lots of food will generally do it. Sugar gliders are not chickens. They are far more complicated and you are asking for a much more advanced relationship than you generally try to develop with a chicken. They also live a long time and most only keep their chickens a few years until they start laying less. You have years to get to know these gliders. It's more like getting a dog. They will be your friend or not for a long time. Whether they are a good dog depends on if you have the patience and put in the time to work with them over months and years. No single training method works for all dogs and no single training method can be carried out by all people. You have to take the advice you get and find your own path. I've fostered dogs and it takes weeks for a dog to begin to settle in and be themselves in a new household. Sugar gliders are less domesticated than a dog so take even longer to adjust to a new home and owner. You may not fully see the personality of these guys for another month or more.

Even on the chicken board sometimes the answer really is patience. When someone is panicking about their chicks not hatching yet at the first hour of day 21 and what they should do the answer is nothing. Time and patience and the chicks will hatch so long as your temp and humidity are correct. If they keep worrying you can't really do anything. You just have to keep repeating to wait. If they give an hour by hour update they probably won't get many responses because not much will change and no one will have any new advice. The fact a chick pipped doesn't really prove or change anything except it's still alive and might hatch. There's nothing they can do but wait to see if it will.

Same situation but stretch it out over weeks or months instead of a day or 2. Day by day won't really change much when working with a sugar glider. Whether your method works, your gliders have the personality to be friendly, and they bond is not going to be known tomorrow so no one really has much more advice than to keep trying and be patient. Read the bonding 101 posts for more ideas and wait to see what result you get after several days or weeks. Then people will have a better idea if you're doing things right or if something else might get a better result for your particular gliders and abilities. In the meantime you might want to make a post in the diet section to figure out what exactly it is you are feeding. You probably need to get them on a better diet.
Posted By: MrsBerg

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 10:10 PM

Thank you Calamity Annie, no, I was not singling anyone out. There have been times when people here come across in a very intimidating manner, which, I am sure they do not intending to do. Your post on how to change topics was helpful as now she knows why no one answered her questions. That is all she was asking for, help. Sometimes, posts do not seem to be read carefully, and responses are not helpful or just a repeat of the previous posts. All I meant to say was that perhaps instead of the usual, "you will find much information here, we should post how to utilize the forum, for people who, like I was, are not used to such sites.
Msvalorie, I have no issues with you, whatever my husband did or did not do, I have no control over. He is his own man. I am speaking to all the people who are "old" timers here from the perspective of someone who is relatively new and inexperienced to site like this.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 10:44 PM

on your original question abt biting. there are different
methods that people use. i have used the psst psst sound
at them and if that doesn't work i blow lightly in their
face. that is the only thing that worked for my pit bull
biter. also take the bite, do not put them back wherever
they were, they will learn that biting is unacceptable.

your bonding efforts sound like they are working.

i think you should check out the diets in this forum
as yours dont seem to be getting what they need.
they can get hlp and many other problems without the
correct ratio of calcium/phos. and vitamins that they
need.
but that is another post.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: anjill_tree

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/16/09 11:11 PM

Grammie, I am sorry, I was reading your updates, You said you would do that. It took me awhile to figure out my avatar too. Don't be discouraged. It sounds like you are on the right track, but, maybe you need to get your babies on an approved diet. I also want to say, I use mealworms , I set them on the palm of my hand, nibbling may occur, but after awhile, they will jump on your hand, and stay there to eat that goody. TIME ONLY TIME will get you the results you are looking for.
Worn out old advice, may be the only advice that works. As humans of course we like instant coffee, instant oatmeal, instant meals, but there is no such thing as instant "glider love me" . Hang in there please, DO not give up on your babies, or us humans on this forum.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 05:48 AM

I did not know that I had to go to different "topic forums" with different issues. I started out with the "I'm New" forum and somehow got moved over to "Bonding".
I don't want to do anything wrong but I didn't know to go from one forum topic to another. . . Extremely confusing.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 05:52 AM

THANK YOU hwh4ev. . . this is all I was asking of everyone/anyone.
I'm a pretty tough ole lady and I can take a nip or bite but that down right chewing to draw blood isn't going to float and I needed to get past that and with the trick of "Liquid Gold" I think we are past the blood drawing gnawing of my fingers but then again I'm pretty leary and watchful.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 06:28 AM

The feed I am feeding is a pellet,about as big around as a pencil and about 1 inch long. A pretty brown color.
The label states that it contains. . .
22.0% Crude Protein (min)
9.0% Crude Fat (min)
4.0% Crude Fiber (max)

I call treats anything that I use that contains the sugars. Apple,Sweet Potato seem to please them the most. They have turned their noses up at Peanut Butter,Raisins,Yogurt,Smushed hard boiled egg,banana and Yellow Squash. They lap up the "liquid gold" that was suggested to me.
Right now,their diet doesn't seem to be a real issue except as you said kids will eat treats verses eating the food that is best for them.
I've got the Leadbeaters diet but I question the use of honey as I am afraid of glucose levels in these little creatures getting too high. I suspect that any Sugar Glider that shakes as in reference to a post I read is because of abnormally high blood glucose. . . ie hypoglycemia.
I've got the Tarango Zoo diet but not too keen on feeding too much in the way of raw meat as in day old chicks. I've learned that to feed alot of true protein as in meal worms,crickets,chicks etc can cause the Sugar Glider to smell too musky.
Perhaps between the 2 diets I can come up with something that I find that works with my preferences and for the good of the girls BUT here I go talking diet and we are in the "bonding" forum. I understand that if I want to talk diet I gotta go to the diet/nutrition section.
I started out in the "I'm New" forum and woke up one day to fing myself in the "bonding" section. . . Very confusin.
My point being with the chicken story is that I don't just leave it at . . .Don't worry it just takes time or just be patient. I try to alleviate any anxiety that the poster may be having when it comes to their experiences with their endeavors.
Posted By: anjill_tree

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 09:37 AM

I use Reeps Wombaroo Diet. I love it My gliders are more energetic. Their fur is smoother, eyes are brighter. And they eat all of it. ALso the most used diets I think are BML and HPW. It's really about research, and then your personal choice. The Diet forum is great here.
I do suggset not combining diets, but to stick with one diet. Make sure the Calcium /Phospherous level are 2:1.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 01:39 PM

The reason you started out in "I'm new" and ended up in "bonding" is because your original question was about biting and the moderators of this forum moved your post here so that your question would reach the right people who could help you.
I understand your point about the chickens but unfortunalty gliders ane in no way like them. Chickens have a very specific way they "grow up". Gliders are WAY more like children and a process that works for one glider may not work for another. This is why it's a good idea to post in the right area. That way people with the right answers can find you.
See, I can't really help eith the biting issue because my girls were never big biters but if you checked out the behavior section you would see people with SEVERE biting problems (aka The pitbull biters!)
Everyone here has had a different glider experience and that is why it's hard for us to take you through this step by step (as you can with chickens).
If you need help posting to the right forum or navigating around this site let me know and I will be happy to help!
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/17/09 04:55 PM

grammie,
i dont trust the honey either that is why i have my 4
gliders on the suncoast diet, gliders also like nectar
that you can get on line.
i feed my gliders boiled chicken, boiled eggs(without the
shell), meal worms, crickets and wax worms(once in a while
as wax worms are fattening) and my gliders do not stink
from the protein. that is only their protein, they also
get organic fruits, vegs. every night and some nectar 3
times a week. also they need their calcium and vitamin/
mineral daily on the suncoast diet.
my male does have a musky smell which is normal for a
intact male, my other male is sterile and has no smell.
i find if i change their pouches 2 or 3 times a week
it is fine.
well good luck with your gliders and have fun.
regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/19/09 03:52 AM

I got my very first set of sugar gliders almost 7 weeks ago. They are 3 years old. They were in a couple homes (possibly more) before me. I have a tent I use every night. I put my gliders in the tent with me. I put some toys in there, and their running wheel, and let them do what ever they want. Sometimes I sit, and other times I lay down. They still dont come up to me as much as I would like, but I can see them very slowly getting closer to me, because they do climb on me once and a while. I also have some yogurt with me and dip my finger in it to get them to lick it off my finger. Thats my way of bribing them to come by me in the tent. Both gliders are very gentle when licking my fingers. You can get a tent at Walmart, and its not expensive. Using a tent every night will help you bond with your gliders faster. I know its working with my gliders.

My gliders are not fully bonded to me yet (I have quite a ways to go), but I am taking it day by day.


Posted By: Anonymous

Re: When will she quit biting? - 11/20/09 03:34 AM

Grammie, Don't think so much as to giving them licky treats (yogurt on your finger) as bribing them, what you are doing is creating trust that your hands are good and will not hurt them. Anytime you hand feed a treat you are reinforcing the idea that you will not hurt them. Their biting is just a reaction telling you that they are still scared of you and your hands.

P.S. Also remember that sugar gliders are sap suckers, and in the wild they use their teeth to remove bark from trees to get more sap. If you give them licky treats, and when it gets thin on your fingers, they may be biting you thinking that they'll get more.
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