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Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! #45102
05/06/05 04:07 PM
05/06/05 04:07 PM

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Ok, I just had a vet here in Phoenix contact me about my rescue. We discussed diets, she said that NO FRUITS SHOULD BE GIVEN TO GLIDERS!!!
She says that the gliders system can not break down the enzymes and such in the fruits.
She told me that she recommends the Original Leadbeaters Mix and %50 insect mixture.
How can that be?
Doesn't the Original Leadbeaters call for some fruits?
I just can't imagine how no fruits AT ALL can be beneficial to gliders.

The vet says she sees MANY gliders and has done so for years.

Am I completely off or should I be concerned with her giving out this information.

She said she would be sending me some information in the mail concerning her findings.


Give me your input please...

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45103
05/06/05 04:10 PM
05/06/05 04:10 PM

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
Well I am shocked! I would love to find out why she believes this. My vet and the other vets that I have talked to have no problems or issues with the BML diet or giving fruits. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Angie

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45104
05/06/05 04:20 PM
05/06/05 04:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
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Kilgore, Texas
the vet I took my baby to did not know what the BML diet was!!!!!!!! cora


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http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45105
05/06/05 04:31 PM
05/06/05 04:31 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
the vet I took my baby to did not know what the BML diet was!!!!!!!! cora

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I am not saying BML, I am saying the Original Leadbeaters diet.
She recommends feeding ONLY the Leadbeaters mix with a %50 mixture of insects <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45106
05/06/05 04:39 PM
05/06/05 04:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
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St. Johns, Florida
Esty, I have never heard of NO fruits. I have heard we do not and probably should not feed as much as we offer them and more veggies than fruits should be offered but even the australian zoos feed fruits as you can see here .

I also am interested to see what type of information she gathers that from. Who knows, maybe it will be yet another learning area for us?? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />


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Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45107
05/06/05 04:46 PM
05/06/05 04:46 PM

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I will post it when I get it.
I don't know, sounds odd to me.
I will still be feeding fruits, I have NEVER had a glider get ill due to fruits, blocked intestines have never been a problem in this household, LOL>

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45108
05/06/05 05:02 PM
05/06/05 05:02 PM

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I found the "Captive Gliders diet 1" that says 50% leadbeaters and 50% insects, but it says 5% dried fruits can be offered.
This is the first diet I have heard that staes such low numbers in fruits.
Are there any others out there?

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45109
05/06/05 05:52 PM
05/06/05 05:52 PM

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I have heard of diets that feed lower numbers or no fruits - but the gliders are offered fresh blossoms, eucalyptus & acacia daily among other things, so the diet is hardly lacking. I'd be interested to hear what she would like you to feed & her logic behind it.

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45110
05/06/05 06:29 PM
05/06/05 06:29 PM

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I just started feeding the Ledbeters diet and I am also very interested in this... Everything i had ever heard says to feed plenty of fresh fruits and veggies..

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45111
05/06/05 07:00 PM
05/06/05 07:00 PM

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Yeah I want to see what they say too!

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45112
05/06/05 07:15 PM
05/06/05 07:15 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Ok, ummm, I'm confused. The original Leadbeaters can not be made here in the states because of the high protein baby cereal. Is the vet recommending the Leadbeaters with the High Protein Wambaroo? And does she want to explain to my glider why they can't have their Mangos???????


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Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45113
05/06/05 07:26 PM
05/06/05 07:26 PM

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Uh Oh, you did it now! My gliders are talking organized resistance! Union Representation!

Sheesh, no fruit is a bit harsh, it's natures candy!

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45114
05/06/05 07:28 PM
05/06/05 07:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
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Ok
ONE OF the problems with feeding no fruits is that the gliders don't get enough energy from just the protein sources. They also suffer from hypoglocemia and need the sugar intake. I would say if you didn't feed fruits, you would definately need a nectar. In the winter they break and chew off the bark of the Acadia tree to get the sweet sap that it makes. They live on nectar from plants and flowers and I don't know how a diet without fruit would let them survive?


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USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45115
05/06/05 07:30 PM
05/06/05 07:30 PM

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Um.. 1) I cannot believe that giving them fruits is harmful enough that a vet would say stop. They are gliders. Gliders eat fruit. It's one of the ways they get liquids. 2) my monkies would escape their cages.. come into my room.. and kill me while I slept.

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45116
05/06/05 11:39 PM
05/06/05 11:39 PM

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I know, I really don't know what the vets stand is on this, makes NO since to me.
I am worried more than anything that she is giving this info out to glider owners that may not know any better.
Keep an eye out on this thread. I will post her findings when she sends them to me by snail mail, she said she got her info from a vet that traveled to Australia.
I would like to inform her of a "PROPER diet" but honestly some days it is like a fighting a lost battle, and we all have our own opinions. But for a professional to be so off base really worries me.
I wonder if it be that she just has not reasearched in a LONG time and still goes off of the "captive gliders diet 1"?

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45117
05/06/05 11:42 PM
05/06/05 11:42 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Is the vet recommending the Leadbeaters with the High Protein Wambaroo?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

No, she did not know that HPW was available or even what it is....

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45118
05/07/05 12:21 AM
05/07/05 12:21 AM

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[:"blue"] Ian Hume, a noted Australian researcher in the field of marsupial nutrition, seems to think it is OK to feed fruits to gliders. Think I would need to see a lot of "STRONG" and credible arguments from your vet before I would consider removing fruit from my glider's diet!! [/]

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45119
05/07/05 01:34 PM
05/07/05 01:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,697
Phoenix, AZ
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Phoenix, AZ
That's absurd! My gliders would go NUTS without their fruit!

As Sheila stated, they really need the sugar from the fruit to keep them going. They have such a fast metabolism, I don't know how they would survive without it!


Linda
Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45120
05/08/05 12:11 PM
05/08/05 12:11 PM

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I found a glider diet that is a new item at our local petsmart and just HAD to read the lable... I dont remember the brand, but it specifically stated to feed 50% of this dry pellet, 40% veggies and only 10% fruits. I was quite baffled by that myself as it seemed like a very low percentage of fruits to me. Now to hear a vet say NO fruits?? How many people out there have gliders that go nuts over veggies? My kids like their carrots, peas, and bok choi, but honestly, if i quit with the fruit, they would go on strike!

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45121
05/08/05 12:37 PM
05/08/05 12:37 PM

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my little girl LOVES green beans.. she'll often hold one in each hand (I GOTTA GET A PIC OF IT!). also about the dry pellets... my gliders always leave those little half moons from spitting out all but the liquid... i don't know what nutrients they'll get from dry pellets.

If i'm wrong, please anyone feel free to correct me (we're ALL learning as we go here!)

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45122
05/08/05 12:53 PM
05/08/05 12:53 PM

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Maybe I have weird gliders... they always go to their veggies first and hardly eat fruits. If I am trying to give them a treat, they turn their noses to fruits and I have to offer a veggie. Weirdos! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45123
05/08/05 01:52 PM
05/08/05 01:52 PM

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Ya mine like Lima Beans, YUK!!!!!

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45124
05/08/05 03:05 PM
05/08/05 03:05 PM

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[:"blue"] I know Esty is familiar with this idea; but for new glider owners who may not, the commonly accepted theory is that lima beans are a problem for gliders and should not be fed heavily, if at all. According to the theory, the glider's digestive system is not well suited to handle "gas" and lima beans, being gassy vegetables, should be limited or avoided altogether. [/]

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45125
05/08/05 03:16 PM
05/08/05 03:16 PM

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I was wondering the same thing about the ingredients for the original Leadbeaters. One of the reasons it has been modified (BML), is that all the specific ingredients are not available here in the U.S.A. Plus, the original Leadbeaters does include fruit.

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45126
05/08/05 05:44 PM
05/08/05 05:44 PM

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Randy,
Ya I have read that, they only get one each about once a month, it is like a popsicle for them, a much enjoyed treat.
I just find it odd that they like them, I think they are nasty!!!

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45127
05/08/05 10:14 PM
05/08/05 10:14 PM

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[:"blue"] The canned and frozen ones you get at the store aren't very good. If you get the chance to try some fresh lima beans right out of the garden, you might change your mind??? [/]

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45128
05/08/05 11:19 PM
05/08/05 11:19 PM

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Humm, I've never had canned, only frozen. I will have to try that someday.
Thanks

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45129
05/09/05 03:06 AM
05/09/05 03:06 AM

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Personally, I like lima beans! It's green beans I've always had a problem with.

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45130
05/09/05 03:06 AM
05/09/05 03:06 AM

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oh.. and I meant to ask in my last post.. have we heard from the vet yet to find out his sources?

Re: Leadbeaters and fruit... vet says NO!!! [Re: ] #45131
05/09/05 06:01 AM
05/09/05 06:01 AM

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Well, looking at this from a nutritional stand point, I think that not feeding 50% leadbeaters and 50% insects with no fruits, veggies, or additional supliments wouldn't be very healthy at all.

My first thought is calcium. Insects generally have horrible calcium to PH ratios. I would venture to guess that without additional supliments, 50% insects would equal a less than 2:1 calcium to phosphorus ratio.

My second concern is excessive protien and liver function. Both the leadbeaters mix and the insects are high in protein. High levels of protein can be damaging to the liver.

And my final consern is hydration. Gliders tend to get a majority of their moisture from food. Neither the leadbeaters or insects have a very high moisture content. Actually, next to water, fruits are the highest moisture thing I give my gliders.

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