Karin have you tried

Emergency Vet
Animal 911
37.5 W. Dempster St.
Skokie, IL
847-673-9110

Mon - Fri 5pm-8am
Weekends Sat Noon-Mon 8am

This is a real problem with Emerg. clinics. They forget the glider is a small animal just like any other small animal. Because it is a sugar glider...they toss what they have learned out the window when it comes to just even administering a simple thing as fluids.

Sending prayers your way. Remember to stay calm when driving. If possible have someone go with you and let them drive the car.

I can't beleive the amount of responses in over just a few hours from everyone. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" /> RALLY ON PEOPLE. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" /> That's what I love about this board. Everyone truly cares about everyone else. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" /> Hope all turns out well.

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 03:51 AM: Message edited by: Krystal ]</small>

12:24 AM-Karin states: "poopies is fine"

2:02 AM-Karin reports: "but is drinking alot!"

2:10 AM-Karin updates: "I witnessed her throw up about 5x...then she drank ALOT of apple juice...and went to the pouch"

I'm speculating, I realize, but with the vast amount of apple juice that Tira drank in an effort to rid herself of the apparent lodged piece of date, it's likely she gave herself diarrhea from the excessive juice.

No one will know for sure until the vet is able to check her out, but it seems premature to get overly concerned about a vomiting episode when the details Karin provided point to a more likely case of choking than to a serious illness to suddenly appear from an otherwise healthy glider. Just my armchair prognosis, but I'm betting it's a case of lodged food unable to be swallowed or dislodged by normal extraction of fluid and dispelling. Karin will likely update when she can and I'm sure that Bridget or hubby will drive her as she doesn't do highway driving! Sending her strong and positive vibes for positive prognosis! <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

Just spoke to Karin. My heart goes out to her and her baby. I was thinking if she does have food stuck, maybe the diarreah was caused from stress. Just thinking I dunno. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/nixweiss.gif" /> Won't know till a vet visit. I am just going nuts here. Just said another prayer for Tira. Wish there was something I can do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Forgot to mention that the vet in skokie is 2 hours away from her. The drive will stress Tira more than she is. Her only hope now is that Tira holds on till the morning. vet says he won't see her till the morning. Sheesh! I don't get it a vet that is glider knowlegeable should know that they go downhill fast.

Jeff, the apple juice thing.... I did address. . With severe vomiting the glider needs to be seen by a vet. And if your Dx is correct...the glider would need vet care ASAP anyway.

As far as I can tell...this thread was mainly about how to get vet care ASAP. Do you know any vets...that are close to Karin by chance? However I was told she has already left to go to a vet. Not sure now. As someone else just posted she has not.

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 04:31 AM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>

Judy,

I don't think Karin has left yet. I think she is going to leave very early this morning and wait at the door of the clinic. Unless plans have changed. She is very upset. I think I am going to look in the phone book and make some calls for her.

Okay, you have been quiet maybe you left for the vet.

Talked to the vet in Skokie. She said that if she won't drink the Pedialyte (sp?) you can force feed it to her with a dropper. Make sure is is in an upright postion when you do this, with her head pointed down wards. She said that if she is sleeping not to disturb her so that she does not get upset and start vomiting again. You can call me anytime if you need my help. Hubby will be getting out of work in a half hour so he can stay with the baby. If you need a ride let me know.

Wow -- this is what I get for going to bed early. Any word yet? Karin, make sure they do a fecal in the exam -- of course you know that, but I thought I'd mention it.

I just got off the phone with Karin, she is going to the vet's now. He couldn't see her last night (she said because he said he had a cold and had to get up at 5:30 for work...and didn't want to get out that late....grrrrr) The E-vets wouldn't even see her to give sub-q fluids....just because they are gliders...another grrrrrrrr. I told Karin she could call me anytime...day or night...but last night I wouldn't have been much help, since my vet and I are about 3 or 4 hours away.
I just wish there were some way we could "force" these vets to at least see them with a phone consultation with a glider knowledgable vet. Maybe that way they may see that our little critters are not that much different than the other little critters they see, in most respects...(other than the fact they are marsupials...instead of rodents). I always thought they practiced for the love of animals.....all animals. I am finding out more and more that that is not the case. Sorry to rant!!!
Good Luck Karin....we will be praying for all of you!!!!

Thank you all so very very much...leaving here in a few for the vet. What John said is correct...will address all that later, trust me!

Tira slept most of the night...even forcing with the dropper did not work. HOWEVER, she did eat a little off my fingers this morning, her eyes are bright...she doesn't *look* bad, so I am VERY hopeful. I had seperated the two for most of the night...but they were stressing this early am without each other, so they are now together sleeping quite peacefully.

For now, we are on the uphill.

I promise to post ASAP, and again, THANK YOU my friends...without this Board..well...

Karin *special thanks to all who called with prayers* God Bless you.

Karin: Please, keep us updated when you have the time dear! Our thoughts are with you and everything will be fine! <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

John: I know this will upset you and many others, but since I once was a Pre-vet Med student and have had experience working with breeders, vets, and exotics such as eland antelope, giraffes, camels, and numerous other exotics, I will give you a brief reply to your inquiry as to why veterinarians place priority as they do oft times. Although everyone here reveres their little companion fuzz-butts, in the "big picture", they are but a small marsupial that is FAR from endangered or in short supply. Quite the contrary, they are vastly over-bred and have reached virtually the same overpopulated status of pound pups and cats. Look at the sugar glider mills that exist throughout the US and then add all of the "hobby" breeders and the "accidental" breeders, and you get the idea. I know I'm opening a sore spot with many by making my next statement, but keep in mind the overall picture viewed through a professional's eyes and not the teary eyes of an owner in panic. Cost is often a factor. If flying out of bed while sick to do an emergency C-section on a troubled black rhino-(beyond endangered and close to extinct and in terms of value-immeasurable in dollars and cents to the world community) is compared to a sick vet arising to look at a sugar glider-(with a non life threatening ailment) who will likely survive until the morning, the risk of loss to the owner is perhaps immeasurable, but not to the professional who risks his/her health to rush out and perform emergency care for a glider, dog, cat, pet squirrel, etc. This isn't to say that vets don't passionately care for gliders or other so called "lesser" exotics or domestics, and will do their best to give them proper care, but they won't receive the same level of priority that a rare or "higher" ranking animal on the totem pole will receive. If your vet told you that you would incur an expense of several thousand dollars to save a cat, dog, or glider...would you? Some would say yes, but I assume that the vast majority of us being brutally frank would have to say, there is a point where the cost and benefits are balanced to determine what is best for ALL involved. Doctors must do this with human life all the time and veterinarians must also do the same when it comes to our feathered, furred, and finned friends. Sorry, but that's life! Perhaps a vet from the board can more eloquently explain what I certainly have conveyed in less than eloquent or professional terms! <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Pouch Potato ]</small>

If possibly, can you explain why a emerg. clinic would be unable to at least administer sub q. fluids? Or at least look at the animal to see if it was dehydrated?

I have been there as to the vet being called at midnight and refusing to see one of my gliders of whom he did surgery on. But the emerg clinic at least saw the glider even though they did not fix the problem.

I think the c/c is...the emerg clinic refused to even look at the glider and not that the vet was too sick to go to the clinic.

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>

Let's keep this thread about Karin and Tira. How to choose vets and how vets work is an interesting topic, but probably not for this thread.

Judie: As I'm not a veterinarian and can't speak for them, I can only speculate as to the reasoning behind their decision. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If possibly, can you explain why a emerg. clinic would be unable to at least administer sub q. fluids? Or at least look at the animal to see if it was dehydrated?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If a client indicates the glider is consuming vast quantities of a liquid, be it water, apple juice, or whatever, as Tira was doing and considering the vomiting had ceased, the risk of dehydration would be minimal. As for their individual reason(s), I have no idea. I know from past experience with an emergency vet called for matters which I personally may have felt demanded immediate attention, I was instructed to take matters into my own hands until the clinic was open. What we consider an emergency isn't always viewed by them as such. Had they felt sub-q fluid injection was warranted, I'm certain they would have instructed Karin to bring the glider in, but from the description given of Tira consuming liquids, it would be unnecessary. The fact that she was sleeping and not continually vomiting indicates a low priority for immediate emergency care at that precise moment when a couple of hours wouldn't make a considerable difference-(as Tira had already been "over the hump" and several hours had already elapsed since the initial onset of apparent choking).

With respect to </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think the c/c is...the emerg clinic refused to even look at the glider and not that the vet was too sick to go to the clinic.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know what "c/c" means, but again, I can't answer the why for the clinic. I can only imagine they didn't see the urgency to warrant an immediate visit for whatever the reason.. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/nixweiss.gif" />

I'm sure Karin will let us all know when she gets some news! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Sorry Lucy, but I had already posted prior to seeing your request. I agree, and as Karin is a good friend, I was checking for updates on Tira too! <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

Ohhh, Karin! I am keeping my fingers crossed for both you and Tira! I hope things turn out for the better! I will be thinking of you.

Jennifer

<img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/yelclap.gif" /> We are back! First, Tira was NOT dehydrated whatsoever when we got to the vet. (I was shocked) She looked great as a matter of fact. He did a complete and thorough even checking everything double time (I am so neurotic). Abdomen, mouth, teeth, pouch area...everything. Absolutely nothing was inflamed...all checked out ok. Fecal smear and float fine (this makes the 2nd time in recent weeks)

He is convinced she was hyper-salivating, due to the possibility of something stuck in her teeth, or possibly irritating the throat area. However, the mouth and teeth area also looked *perfect*, as did the rest of her check-up. The diarrea episode was contributed to the stress of the situation for her, since it was isolated. The rubbing of the head...was actually her rubbing the side of her mouth aggressively, and this was key in the diagnosis as well. What appeared to be excessive vomiting, was her actually wretching and salivating.

Thank you all so so very much, this is such a relief I can't tell you...

Karin and sweet Tira

ps. vet said she is spoiled rotten oops, o well!

Glad to hear that Tira is okay Karin!!

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Candiflip ]</small>

I will explain the vet and emergency vet situation later ...it warrants some discussion to clear things up here.
They will be hearing from me again though, and the emergency vet clinic was wrong for refusing to see her "because the vet on call has never even seen a sugar glider" "I have never known an animal who needed fluids... that couldn't wait 2hrs... to survive anyway" These are quotes from the vet assistant.

Karin

I AM SO HAPPY SHE IS OKAY!!!!!!!

So it WAS the piece of date--OMG, I am sorry.
None of mine have ever had any problem with them, I never remotely imagined your precious babies could come to harm from them.

Congrats on the "spoiled" diagnosis, LOL!!

Yay, Tira! <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/dance.gif" /> Happy to hear she is okay. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/heartpump.gif" />

<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump_clap.gif" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/jump.gif" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/1syellow1.gif" alt=" - " />
E-mail sent!!! <img src="http://www.stopstart.freeserve.co.uk/smilie/bigwave.gif" alt=" - " />

Thank goodness everything is OK!!!!

Tis so good to hear. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/multi.gif" />

Jeff, sorry. the c/c stood for chief complaint.

Since all is well....I am going to close this topic. Karen, if you like, you can open a new thread and there perhaps we can all have a good discussion about Emerg. vet Clinics. <img border="0" alt="" title="" src="graemlins/thumb.gif" />

<small>[ 12-07-2002, 05:44 PM: Message edited by: Judie ]</small>