GliderCENTRAL

There's something seriously wrong with my gliders!

Posted By: Guerita135

There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:15 AM

To start, 2 months ago one of my joeys, Arby, suddenly stopped using his back feet. They were curled up and he wouldn't use them, he just dragged them behind himself.

Well, just now I went into my glider room to hand out mealies to the gliders and, lo and behold, I find Rosa holding onto the side of the cage, shivering, and her back feet are curled up and she's not using them. EXACTLY like Arby!

When I took Arby to the vet he tested positive for Giardia. However, I already tested Rosa and her mate and they were both negative for Giardia, so I don't think that's what it is.

So, now, within a 2 month period, I've had 2 gliders suddenly lose function of their back feet(Arby was normal again in a couple hours. Rosa is still shivering and not using her back feet and I've got her with me. She's eating mealies, despite her shaking, so I'm not sure if it's a seizure, but that's the first thing that comes to mind...). I've also had 1 glider suddenly lose over 20 grams and show signs of what LOOK like calcium deficiency(but it's not) because she's weak all over and is unco-ordinated. After an entire month, she's shown no signs of progress and we're currently trying a new treatment, Baytril, to see if she's got a possible infection like a couple other gliders with similar symptoms have had. It's still too early to tell if the treatment is working.

I've thought long and hard about what I've changed over time that might have caused these problems and only 2 things have changed...

1)I bought new mealworm bedding and after I started using it I got an email from the company saying there was a possible salmonella contamination in one of the ingredients. However, the bedding was tested and was negative for Salmonella. I did, however, stop giving mealies for a while and just recently started giving them again about 2 weeks ago, so, that's my #1 suspect at the moment due to Arby getting sick right after I switched the bedding and Rosa getting sick right after I started handing out the mealies each night again.

2)We started using American bee pollen because we ran out of the Australian pollen. However, I don't remember exactly when we switched, so I'm not sure if it was before or after Arby got sick.

The only e-vets nearby either do not treat gliders or they don't have a clue what they're doing...my vet will be open in a few hours, so I left a message and am going to be taking Rosa there as soon as they're open. If she shows any signs of getting worse or the shaking doesn't stop soon then I'm just going to take her to one of the e-vets anyways and see if there's at least SOMETHING they can do. In the meantime, I'm going to call the e-vets that are within a few hours and that DO treat gliders and see if they might have some advise as to what's happening and what they think I should do.

If any of you have dealt with something like this and have some advice then PLEASE PM me your phone # and I'll call you ASAP!

There is something going on with my gliders and I'm extremely scared for ALL of them and am [censored] out! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

I recorded a short video to show what Rosa's doing with her back feet: http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/other/?action=view&current=HPIM5960.flv

PLEASE HELP!

*If you know of a vet that might have some clue what's going on or you can think of any specific tests I should ask my vet to run to find out what's wrong, please let me know so I can tell my vet or give my vet the phone # of the other vet to consult with!
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:18 AM

Here's a video of Arby when he was having the same problem: http://s165.photobucket.com/albums/u67/Tortiebaby/?action=view&current=Picture18116.flv

I told my vet about it, but because it only persisted for a short time, the vet dismissed it as being from a possible injury or a "charlie horse"(for a lack of a better term).
Posted By: LSardou

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:21 AM

I'm so sorry Nicole! Is there any chance that you can get a sample of the mealworm bedding and a couple of the meal worms to a lab for testing?

Even though your other gliders tested negative the first time for giardia, there is still a possibility that the eggs were not hatched to get a positive result. I would have all of them retested again asap!

Until you get them in, make sure that they are getting plenty of fluids and are kept warm.

Posted By: Dancing

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:27 AM

Have the mealie bedding tested for aflatoxins.

I'm so sorry your poor baby is having to go through this. I have my phone on me if you want to call. I'm headed to bed but I'll be awake for hours watching tv. Don't worry about waking me up.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:38 AM

Aflatoxins was another thing that came to mind just now when I was talking with hubby. I'll going to take in some mealies and bedding to my vet and have her test them for anything and everything she thinks might have caused the problem.

I've got some pedialyte on-hand, but the gliders always hate it, so I'm going to run to the store and get some Gatorade instead(we live out in the country, but, thankfully, we've got a 24-hour grocery store 10 minutes away).
Posted By: DirtyPaws

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:38 AM

Nicole, have them do the zinc centrifugation stool test. I know I'm spelling it wrong so I hope they know what you're talking about. But it's a more certain test whereas regular fecal float/smears can come back false negatives.

Good luck getting to the bottom of your babies troubles. heart

How 'bout your joeys you've sent home during this time? Have you kept in touch with everyone to know they've all been healthy?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:45 AM

Wow! I am SO sorry you are dealing with this! You must be about to lose your mind with worry!!! frown

You said you had gotten your bedding tested already. What did they test for? Also, did they test ALL of the bedding or just a small amount? If it was just a small amount it could still possibly be the bedding causing this. They may have tested bedding that didn't have anything in it. The contaminant could be in a different area of your bedding. If you know what I mean?


Also, you need to take your gliders back a couple of times to check for ghiardia. I think every two weeks for two months. Sometimes it won't show up in the first test or two. So when you have one glider that tested positive it's best to test all others numerous times even if they test negative. Also clean your cages and stuff VERY good so it doesn't spread. They can become dehydrated really fast from that too. Which can cause other health issues and where their bodies can't absorb the vitamins and nutrients they need. Which can cause even more problems.


I really hope you can find out what's going on with your babies! I feel for you! Keep us update on how their doing!
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:53 AM

Thanks Crystal, I just wrote the zinc test down so I'll remember to ask my vet about it!

Yes, I've been keeping in touch with people who've gotten joeys from me and no one has had any problems. Also, all of my joeys have vet checks(and exam AND a fecal check) within a week of going to their new homes to make sure there's nothing wrong that's popped up at the last minute and so far everyone has had perfectly clean bills of health(aside from Arby and his brother, who tested positive for Giardia).

However...I HAVE noticed that my joeys lately have been extremely small and I can't figure out why... Leda has always had small joeys, so I wasn't worried about hers, but then Precious had tiny joeys(Arby and Chief...they only weighed about 40g at 12 WEEKS!) and Precious is a whopping 160g and her mate is a normal 85g. Then, Axl and Adore, who normally have regular-sized joeys, now have 2 tiny joeys as well. Their joeys are both around 45g at 10 weeks.

I don't know if that has to do with whatever is happening, but I find it extremely odd.

I also had my first rejected joey(Smidgin...he's also EXTREMELY small...he's 4 weeks old and only weighs 20g) AND joey loss this month. Precious had 3 joeys IP(2 were 8 weeks along and 1 was about 4/5 weeks along. She pulled the younger joey and one of the older joeys).

As well, my girls ALWAYS have more joeys IP by the time their joeys are 8 weeks old. However, Silvara, who has always bred alot, I've caught breeding twice and both times there were no joeys...Leda was possibly preggers, but no babies(she's sick though, so she may have pulled/killed the joey(s) because of that)...and Adore, whose joeys are over 10 weeks old now, I caught mating a couple weeks ago, and she also has no joeys IP.

It's really weird, but I simply attributed everything to stress from the giardia and me having to re-arrange some of the cages, clean them like crazy, and having to take away their toys/bedding(since I had to clean everything every day). So, I'm not sure if it's from all of that or from something else...

I just wish I knew what was going on. cry
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 06:05 AM

Brandi, I wasn't the one who tested the bedding, it was someone who had bought a bag of it from me. They had taken some of it to their vet and the vet had tested it for the Salmonella and it tested negative.

However, that was unused bedding, so I'm going to bring in some of my used AND un-used bedding as well as the actual possibly-contaminated ingredient(powdered milk).

I'm still working to get Arby and Chief over the giardia(they had it really bad and it wouldn't go away, even after 2 treatments). Once they're negative I'm going to be re-testing everyone at once. I treated EVERYONE for the giardia for one full treatment, whether or not they tested positive, then I continues a 2nd treatment for the ones that tested positive. I spoke to my vet last week about Arby still having diarrhea and so we're bringing back in some fecals from him and his brother this week to have them re-tested and, if they're still positive, they'll also be re-treated.

I've tested all my joeys and their parents before they've gone to their new homes this last month and everyone has been testing negative, but I've informed all the new owners about the giardia and have asked them to retest the joeys in about 2-4 weeks and let me know if they test positive since giardia can be dormant.
Posted By: DirtyPaws

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 06:05 AM

And Brandi got where I ment to go with my reasoning for the zinc test. That maybe they've had the parasite long enough it's causing other health issues. Just very strange ~ the feet thing AGAIN. And the joey weights being low across the board. Wow. You may never know about pulling them though. With all the cleaning and rearranging that has to be done when treating for parasites that very well could have been a factor.

Much heart to ya! Hope you've got a good vet on board that will take the time to think and consult if necessary.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 06:09 AM

[quote=DirtyPaws Hope you've got a good vet on board that will take the time to think and consult if necessary.

[/quote]

Yes, my vet is amazing! She's also been open to ideas/theories and to talking to other vets for consults or advice. That's the one thing I love about her and why I trust her above all the other vets I've gone to!

She's also got awesome memory and remembers more about my gliders then I do sometimes! lol.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 06:20 AM

Good news: Rosa is now using her back feet. She's still shaking a bit though.

I think that she may have been having a seizure...

What causes seizures in gliders? Low levels of certain vitamins or sugar perhaps?

This is EXACTLY what happened with Arby...it was late at night, he was shivering, wouldn't use his back feet, and then, a couple hours later, he was acting normal again.

It only happened once though(that I know of). Does that sound like a seizure?

Rosa was also blinking alot(not in the video, but she was doing it for a few minutes before I got the video, when the shaking was a bit worse.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 07:00 AM

Rosa seems to be her normal self again, so I'm going to try and catch a quick nap(I only slept a few hours last night) so I can be awake enough to get to the vet in the morning.

However, if anyone reads this between now and then and knows what might be wrong with her, please call me and let me know. I'll wake up. I posted my phone # on SGN(Sugar Glider Neighborhood) since it's a private forum so you can get it over there or by asking someone who's a member there. Please don't be afraid to wake me up because I NEED to know what's going on with my babies. frown
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 11:20 AM

Nicole, I'm sorry I missed your call during the night. I will be trying to call you shortly... hug2

Moving this over to Health & Hygiene now.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 12:10 PM

Nicole, that is what happened with one of my rescue when I had him here. We ran all sorts of tests on him and nothing came back showing anything. We thought for sure we were going to loose him. I was on the phone with MiMiJo that evening and a lightbulb went off, I had one of those wind spinners in his cage that we all assumed were safe and I took that out. A few days later he was fine, other than hating me all of a sudden. I think he thought I was the one trying to hurt him. But he was slowly being poisoned to death and I had no idea.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 12:16 PM

Peggy, do you know what he was being poisoned by(lead?zinc?etc...)? At the moment, the gliders have nothing in their cages but their pouch and their wheels because of the giardia scare(they'll get everything back once everyone has the "all clear").

The only thing I can think of that the 2 cages have in common is the Landware mesh(plastic mesh) that I use for the wheels and to make Rosa and Gil's cage. Do you think that might be the problem? I've never heard of it being unsafe...Should I take some to the vet to do a swab or something?

I just tried calling the vet and the phone was busy. They open at 8:30, so I assume they're just getting in. I'm praying that my vet's in today(she's in every other Monday). If not, she might be willing to come in or will be able to see Rosa tomorrow cause she's always in on Tuesdays.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 12:31 PM

YIPPEE! My vet IS in today! dance

I just called. She doesn't get in til 9, so I wasn't able to talk to her directly, but I was able to get an appointment for 10:30(that's the earliest they had).

So, just to make sure I have everything correct...I should get the following done:

*Fecal check
*Zinc Centrifugation Stool Test
*Bloodwork to check for any issues, as well as to check the cal:phos levels(if possible because Rosa is pretty tiny)
*Tests done on mealie bedding and mealies to check for Salmonella again AND aflatoxins

Should I get a urinalysis done as well?

I hope Rosa gives me a poo. :\ I'll try and collect some from her mate and babies or the bottom of the cage as well, just in case.

Am I forgetting anything?
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 12:53 PM

Have all your gliders been tested for giardia? Is it possible that others were sick and the contamination has just made it's way to Rosa? dunno

I'm sorry about your babies. I certainly hope you get to the bottom of this. Good luck, girl. hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 01:26 PM

Nicole-

Best of luck today!! You and your babies will be in my thoughts and prayers! hug2
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 01:29 PM

Nicole, Im not sure what it was, I remember it was the coating that was put on them. I am going to guess it would be some sort of lead in them. Never had it tested though.

Best of luck and keep us posted.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 02:12 PM

*fingers crossed* You're a great suggie mama and I sure hope they figure out what's going on with your babies!!!
Posted By: Zuki_Mom

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:11 PM

Last December I had a similar problem with my girl Zizi. In the middle of the night she started acting like she couldn't use her back legs, it was very similar to a seizure. I rushed her to the vet the next day and the vet told me is was a very severe bacterial infection that she had been hiding and possibly had since she was OOP (she was OOP in September last year). Before the incident she showed no signs of being ill and was a very happy healthy baby. So make sure they check for bacteria.

hug2 hug2 hug2 I'll keep you and your gliders in my thoughts
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:14 PM

Well, I'm back. tounge I was running 20 minutes late because I was tearing the house apart trying to find my stupid check-book and couldn't. The vet had another appointment at 11, so she rescheduled me for 2:15. frown

That's okay though, because it gives me a bit more time to gather more fecals and some other info I was wanting to bring to my vet regarding diets.

Jenny, yes, I had all my gliders tested. The only ones that were positive were 2 joeys(brothers) and a rescued boy(who I'd gotten a fecal on when I rescued him and he'd been negative then, but he may have already had it or gotten it afterwards). My cat tested positive for giardia, so I'm assuming that's where they originally got it from since I had to leave a couple cages in my livingroom for about a week or so while airing out the old glider room(I found a bajillion grain mites in there. UGH!).

The gliders with giardia are in a different room then Rosa and I've been dousing myself with sanitizer 24/7 and before touching the other gliders(just as Sugarlover09 how bad I am with the sanitizer...roflmao) so if she DOES have giardia, then she probably already had it rather then having it from cross-contamination.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:20 PM

Originally Posted By: Zuki_Mom
Last December I had a similar problem with my girl Zizi. In the middle of the night she started acting like she couldn't use her back legs, it was very similar to a seizure. I rushed her to the vet the next day and the vet told me is was a very severe bacterial infection that she had been hiding and possibly had since she was OOP (she was OOP in September last year). Before the incident she showed no signs of being ill and was a very happy healthy baby. So make sure they check for bacteria.

hug2 hug2 hug2 I'll keep you and your gliders in my thoughts


Thank you for the info!

I talked with someone on the phone who also told me that it's most likely a bacterial infection as well, so I'll be having a C&S done on Rosa's fecal sample to check for any possible bacteria infections.

If nothing shows up, I'm going to ask the vet to let me start her on some Baytril and Flagyll(sp?) to treat a possible infection and/or giardia while we continue to run tests, just to be on the safe side.

I've up-ed my list now to also include:

*urinalysis
*C&S on the fecal sample
*possibly an x-ray as well(depending on if the vet wants to do it...if she has to put her out to get blood, then I'll ask her to do the x-ray as well while she's out)

My poor vet is going to work herself raw on the all tests and my poor bank account is going to be groaning in agony as well. *sigh*

I think I'm going to go job-hunting after the vet visit... tounge
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:34 PM

Omg Nicole. You are just having a bad month aren't you. I hope Rosa is ok. And yes I will vouch that she is NUTS with the sanitizing between gliders he he
Posted By: Dancing

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:34 PM

With aflatoxins, there are two types of toxicity.
Acute Toxicity
Chronic Toxicity

Acute is where there is a sudden high dose exposure and the animal/person becomes very ill suddenly.

Chronic is where the animal is exposed to small amounts but over a long period (it builds up in the system).

With the chronic, it does effect the babies.

http://www.aflatoxin.info/health.asp

Scroll down to Chronic Toxicity. It says what some of the effects can be including low birthweight, low milk production and other issues. And yes, they are discussing animals.
Posted By: nancy1202

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 03:46 PM

Oh Nicole, I am SOOOOOO very sorry! :sorry: How are Gil, Violet and Delia? I'll be watching this to see the results of your vet visit this afternoon. I'm 5 hours away, and don't know if there is anything I can do to help from here, but I'm good for moral support! hug2
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
The only thing I can think of that the 2 cages have in common is the Landware mesh(plastic mesh) that I use for the wheels and to make Rosa and Gil's cage. Do you think that might be the problem? I've never heard of it being unsafe...Should I take some to the vet to do a swab or something?

Does anyone else remember the problem Megi had when she got the roll of Blue mesh?

It was believed to be some sort of coating on the mesh. Possibly something in the manufacturing process?

I wonder if the mesh you have has the same thing? Maybe they have changed their manufacturing process? Maybe it was stored near the blue mesh? Don't know ... just a thought.

Good luck, Nicole.
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:45 PM

I remember that, Alden.
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 05:45 PM

Blue PVC Coated Wire
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 10:33 PM

The mesh I use is plastic mesh(just like the stuff in the Stealth Wheels) because 1)it's cheaper and 2)I was too much of a chicken to use the metal stuff since I was worried about the horror stories I'd heard about the gliders getting sick from the coated metal mesh.

Teresa, thank you for that article!

It says, "The symptoms include decrease in growth rate..." and "the gall bladder becomes swollen". Well, the joey I'm handraising seems to only be growing about 1/3 the amount of a normal joey AND the 2 joeys that have the giardia were just about 40g at just 12 weeks old and looked like they were about 6 weeks old! They're growing, but are STILL really tiny. :\

Also, it would explain why the gliders got giardia in the first place...because it lowers the immune system and allows secondary problems to pop up! That might also explain Leda's UTI and her minor respiratory infection that the vet found when she did the x-ray.

Anyways...

I took Rosa to the vet and the fecal smear was negative for giardia, but the vet is doing a snap test and a C&S to check for giardia more thoroughly and to also check for a possible infection. We won't get the C&S test results til at least the end of the week though. So, for now, it's just a watch and wait period. frown

She didn't take blood or do and x-ray yet because she wants to wait and see what the other tests show first before doing the more invasive procedures. If the tests come back negative or Rosa haves more seizures or gets worse, then I'm going to ask her to please just do the bloodwork/x-ray now, rather then waiting.

She called her lab to see if they could check the bedding/mealies for aflatoxins and she said that it would take a while to get the results because they would have to send it off to an institute to have it tested and it would also cost $200 just for the test. So, she told me to call around and find a local Grain Elevator and see if they can test it instead because we'll get the results alot faster AND it will be cheaper. So, I'm going to call around tomorrow or go into town and see where I can get the test done. There's a Grain Elevator in our town, but I have no clue about what it is, so I'm not sure if I just walk in or have to make an appointment, lol.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/24/09 11:34 PM

What type of calcium supplement do you give them? A lack of calcium in marsupials has been know to cause "back leg paralysis".
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 12:14 AM

Their diet is HPW. The HPW doesn't have a 2:1 cal:phos ratio, but it has enough calcium to keep gliders from getting HLP. However, there are certain health problems that will show what look like signs of HLP and those are what I've been talking to my vet about to test for them. At the moment we're testing for Giardia and certain types of infections. If those show as negative then we'll be looking into bloodwork to check for anything as well as to check Rosa's cal:phos levels. Also, if blood is drawn, we'll be doing an x-ray as well to check and see if anything else is wrong that might show up in an x-ray.

The main suspects right now are: infection, giardia, or aflatoxin poisoning.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 12:19 AM

BTW, thanks for offering your help and advice Susan. smile I know you've have gliders for many years, so if you have any idea of what might be wrong with Rosa, I appreciate all the help I can get. Since Rosa is originally YOUR little baby, then I'll be sure to keep you posted on her, especially if it might be something that could be genetic(although I doubt it, since it's also in one of my other gliders, who is completely unrelated). I should have emailed you about her, it just completely slipped my mind in all the chaos and I wasn't sure if you were still out of town. tounge
Posted By: DirtyPaws

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 12:29 AM

Okay, help me out. What is a snap test and is the C&S the same as zinc test? I don't want to feel like a dummy if I go in asking for it crazy

Sounds like you're on the right track. Just make your calls to get your mealie "condo" tested and let us know what they say!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 12:38 AM

It seems that you are checking all possibilities. We have never had HLP in any of our gliders nor have we had the symptons that you described. I have had gliders become clumsy and uncoodinated when dehydrated, but nothing like you're describing.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 02:30 AM

The C&S is to test for a bacteria infection and the snap test is to test for giardia.
Posted By: Feather

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 06:35 AM

Nicole,

Just got home and saw your post, I am so sorry your going through this. I hope you are able to find a cause and a resolution to the health problems your suggies are having.

I will keep you and your gliders in my thoughts and prayers.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 04:29 PM

Well, I got the result of Rosa's giardia snap test and it was negative. So, now we're waiting on the results of the C&S.

Also, I had to take a different glider, Leda, to the vet today because one of her mammary glands was swollen and hard and she had goop in her pouch. It turns out that she has a yeast infection and mastitis...on TOP of her already being sick! cry

Poor Leda. frown
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 04:51 PM

oh my god, i hope you and your poor sugies will be okay.
good wishes and good luck are being sent your way.
take care.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 05:00 PM

Nicole I am so sorry you are having such a hard time...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 06:22 PM

hug2 Sending tons of HUGS and prayers your way Nicole!! hug2
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 07:14 PM

There is nothing like the pain for a slave who's babies are not well. Keeping you in my thoughts and prayers hug2
Posted By: Lindsay

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 08:42 PM

Wow Nicole, I hope you figure out what is happening with your babies. Keeping you in my thoughts and praying things will work itself out.

If you need anything let me know.

Lindsay
Posted By: flutterbye

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/25/09 10:31 PM

Just checking to see if there is any news?
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/26/09 05:03 AM

Nothing new Shelly. It will be a couple more days til I find out if Rosa has an infection or if we need to do more tests. I'm hoping she's just got an infection because that's treatable. For Leda it's just a matter of treating her and keeping her as comfortable as possible while she gets better. frown

I do have some slightly good news though...the other day, for the first time, Chief and Arby had solid poos instead of diarrhea! dance They're the joeys that have/had the giardia. Because their poos are finally normal again, I'll be getting them tested for giardia again to see if it's finally gone or if we need to do one last treatment.
Posted By: flutterbye

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/26/09 11:08 AM

That is good news!!!

Still sending healing thoughts to you and your gang!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my gliders! - 08/26/09 01:57 PM

Great news Nicole! I will pray that the tests come back negative and your babies are on the road to recovery! heart
Posted By: Damiana

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 03:52 PM

wow I just read everything that is going on with you and your baby's I am so sorry this is happening to you. I haven't had a sick glider experience of my own so I don't got any info that may help but I do wish you the best of luck with your little ones. hug2 :grey:
Posted By: finnessa

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 04:30 PM

Sending hopes and prayers you get it all figured out and all your babies get well fast! hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 05:01 PM

So sorry to hear all the bad news! Will be keeping you in our thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery for all of your babies! hug2
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 05:10 PM

Thank you all! hug2 We'll take every prayer, good thought, and good vibe we can get! hug2

I talked to the vet yesterday about there being possible thyroid problems with the gliders because many of the symptoms fit Leda AND one of the early symptoms of thyroid problems is Carpal Tunnel Syndrome.

"Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS), or median neuropathy at the wrist, is a medical condition in which the median nerve is compressed at the wrist, leading to paresthesias, numbness and muscle weakness in the hand."

Sound familiar?...that would explain why Rosa and Arby both had problems with their back feet. :\

Also, Rosa and Leda both have really low heart rates and heart problems are often caused by thyroid problems. *sigh*

So, the vet's going to talk to the lab and see how much blood they'd need to do check the thyroid levels. Hopefully it'll be an amount we can get!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 05:57 PM

That does make sense!! I didnt know gliders could get CTS! Best of luck and please keep me posted! I have been worried about you and your babies! hug2
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 06:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Chelsie
I didnt know gliders could get CTS!


I have no idea if they can or can't, I just know what I'm seeing and have no idea how else to explain it... dunno

However, thyroid problems are often caused by diet problems(from what I've read, calcium, magnesium, and iron levels all effect the thyroid), so that just leads us right back to their diet.

I'm putting Leda on a different diet, so we'll see if that helps. If it does, then I'm going to be changing my other sick gliders over and go from there as far as switching everyone else.

Leda's one of my oldest gliders and she was on HPW before I got her, so if anyone would be showing diet-related problems, it would be her, since she's been on it the longest. HPW is a new diet and has only been around a couple years, so it's very possible that it could have long-term effects that don't show up until a couple years down the road... I don't know and don't want to assume things without proof, which is why I've been discussing it with my vet and have made and given her a complete nutritional analysis of the diet for her to look at. She's been speaking with a nutritional expert about the diet and is going to get back to me about it when she's got some more definitive info. I also mentioned the soy protein used in the diet since soy is an area of debate as well as far as to it's safety.

http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm

"Soy also contains goitrogens - substances that depress thyroid function."

"Soybeans are high in phytic acid, present in the bran or hulls of all seeds. It's a substance that can block the uptake of essential minerals - calcium, magnesium, copper, iron and especially zinc - in the intestinal tract....Analysis shows that calcium, magnesium, iron and zinc are present in the plant foods eaten in these areas, but the high phytate content of soy- and grain-based diets prevents their absorption."

I think it's definitely something to look into and that we should try and use meat protein rather then plant protein due to what I quoted about.

Depending on what the vet says and what happens when I switch Leda's diet, I'll be posting more about my diet findings and what I've learned by talking with other members of the glider community. wink
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 08:11 PM

I've really been following your posts closely Nicole... I really hope your vet can find something soon! It's always the unknown that hurts.

WHPS (Wombaroo High Protein Supplement) has been used in Australia for many years, not in sugar gliders diets and not in the large portions that HPW calls for. It was created and used only as a top dressing (sprinkled) on fruits and veggies.
So, maybe the large quantities of soy are not so good.. which I know soy in general is a big debate.

Please keep us posted!
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 09:11 PM

I've been watching this pretty close myself.

Quote:
HPW is a new diet and has only been around a couple years, so it's very possible that it could have long-term effects that don't show up until a couple years down the road


Nicole I have actually been using HPW diet for 5 years now. Pockets has been using it a lot longer than myself.

I do believe we ARE indeed missing something. Whether it is something that needs to be added or something we need to take out.

I just believe if it were the HPW diet, we would be seeing alot more of the same issues.

I just hope they find out exactly what IS going on with your gliders. Its frustrating to say the least when you know there is something wrong, you want to fix it but dont know what it is to fix.
Posted By: Dani4Hedgies

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/27/09 09:24 PM

Nicole,
I am so sorry to hear about Arby and Rosa I will we are all sending hugs and healing thought your way to you and your babies may we get to to the bottom of this and get everyone well.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 12:38 AM

Peggy, I agree. HPW is still new, so it's going to have to go through the tweaking and fine-tuning that all the diets have gone through. So, maybe if it turns out that this IS diet-related, then perhaps the problems I've having right now will help us to make the needed changes so that no one else has to go through it. hug2

I'm waiting to hear what my vet finds out about it and am interested to see what the other vets(they have an online community too, lol) have to say about it and about the soy content.

Perhaps if the soy is the problem then we could simply look into other sources of the vitamins that the Wombaroo contains. wink I don't think it'd be too hard to find a suitable way to get our gliders what they need. smile I've been trying to find the nutritional content of Acacia gum, but, as of yet, have been unable to find it. I figured that starting with what gliders eat naturally would be good. Perhaps adding a few more bugs for added protein and calcium would be good as well.

I was also thinking that it would be a good idea to be a bit more strict on the veggies/fruits that are fed with the diet. As you pointed out to me, Peggy, I'd been focusing solely on the calcium and phosphorous levels, but I think we need to look at the other vitamins and minerals that we feed as well. Because too much of a bad thing can be just as bad as too little. :\

I DO love the simplicity of the HPW diet, so if it turns out that the problems are diet-related then I can honestly say that I will truelly miss being able to prep all their food in about 15 minutes! lol

As for why it has effected who it has effected...we're not sure... we only have theories at the moment, so I'll share my thoughts:

*I think that with Leda it's because she's older.

*With Arby(I'm only listing him and not his brother because he's the only one who had the "seizure"), he's already got a compromised immune system and weakened body because of the Giardia.

*Rosa...I'm not sure about...however, my theory is that PERHAPS it has something to do with her being a cremino het. Both her parents were original 100% cremino hets with garnet-colored eyes that Susan pulled from her breeding stock. So, it's possible that they were related. Both that and the the albino gene(because creminos ARE albinos. They're T+ Albinos) may have caused her to have a weaker immune system or something. I'll have to speak to Susan about it if Rosa turns out to have an infection.

We'll probably find out the results of the C&S test tomorrow or Saturday.

Hopefully we can finally get something conclusive soon because I can't take much more of this not knowing. frown My brain's hurting from all the research I've been doing(and I'm sure some other people have headaches too from talking to me on the phone and helping with the research, lol).
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 12:51 AM

Ok Nicole, I have a couple questions as I am really trying to help find other things you can look at so bare with me here. I may forget a few things, or get some things backwards, so if I do straighten me out so I can make the right notes to pass on please.

First of all, is Arby short for Arbitor? As I couldnt find an Arby on your site, but figured it was short for Arbitor.

If I am correct, was he Precious's last joey before she started pulling or rejecting joeys? There may be a connection there, maybe there was something wrong with him from the get go?? This would cause her to reject/pull any of the remaining joeys if there is something going on with her, or something going on with the joeys.

Rosa, I went to look up her lineage but you only have the mom and dad listed. Do you have more lineage on her and if so, if you could send it over to me I would appreciate it. (Dont people throw things at me for this next statement) But since she is from a cremino line, we are trying to keep any and all issues that are arising within the cremino/albino line listed and trying to trace back the lineage as far as possible to see if there is ever a common ancestory or have similar issues.

Now as for Silvara, wasnt she once paired with Gilthanas? If so, could the possible mate change be what is the issue with her?

The yeast infection and Mastitis more than likely is not diet related, but maybe from the meds she was already on or a mealworm shell or something to cause the yeast infection?

I just have a hard time understanding why more gliders out there would not be showing problems if it were diet related. There are SOOOO many folks that use the HPW (and I am talking about the powder itself, not the mix)

I'll definitely be keeping track of things...taking as many notes as I can.

Is there any way you would be willing to send over vet records on all the ones that you have taken in already Nicole so I can take it to show Tim and see what he thinks??
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 12:58 AM

I'm not very familiar with the HPW diet, as it is not the one I use, So forgive me if this seems a silly question:

Do you use a calcium supplement in the diet at all or is it solely based on the calcium content of the ingredients?

If you use a calcium supplement, is it the Herp Calcium or Glider cal, or something else?

the reason I ask:
it's been suggested that the balance in the Herp calcium supplements is off (for gliders: being that it's made for reptiles) to the point that even though it gives the gliders calcium, they are unable to absorb and use it, or they get too much. And furthermore; If the Supplement has D3 in it: the D3 causes additional complications.

I wish I could remember where it was that I found that, and to be honest, I don't even know how much of that is even accurate... But I didn't notice it being suggested, so I thought I'd throw that out there.


good luck, I really hope you guys figure it out soon!!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:13 AM

HPW = No supplement thumb
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:18 AM

Originally Posted By: Srlb
First of all, is Arby short for Arbitor?


Yes, that's him.

Originally Posted By: Srlb
If I am correct, was he Precious's last joey before she started pulling or rejecting joeys?


Chief and Arbitor were her first joeys. She then had 3 more joeys IP. 2 were due OOP in about a week and the other joey was about 4/5 weeks along. Also, at the time, we had to move around cages, take Arby/Chief away from their parents(Precious and Freedom), treat everyone for Giardia(which was extremely stressful because most didn't take the meds willingly... :\), AND had just gone out of town for the SGGA. So, I think that the odds are that Precious pulled the younger joey and one of the older joeys due to stress rather then there being something wrong with them. The joey she didn't pull is perfectly healthy and doing great.


Originally Posted By: Srlb
Rosa, I went to look up her lineage but you only have the mom and dad listed. Do you have more lineage on her and if so, if you could send it over to me I would appreciate it.


Rosa's parents are Mick and Hera, who are both original hets that Susan pulled from her breeding stock of gray gliders. So, unless Susan has further lineage on them(not that I'm aware of) then that's all I've got.

Leyna now owns both her parents and they're both very healthy. If I remember correctly, Hera is about 7+ years old and still going strong. I don't know how old Mick is, but I'd guess 5 or so years old...make Leyna will come along soon and post or I can ask her the next time I catch her on YIM. wink

Originally Posted By: Srlb
Now as for Silvara, wasn't she once paired with Gilthanas?


Silvara's not the one that is sick, it's Leda. She's been with Milky Way since I got her and there were no changes going on when she got sick. I didn't separate her from Milky Way until I realized how much weight she'd lost and so I separated them(thinking it'd be temporary) to give her a break and keep her from getting preggers again beacuse, at the time, I thought she'd just lost the weight from having joeys back to back. She'll be 4 years old soon and was originally from Sheila.

Originally Posted By: Srlb
The yeast infection and Mastitis more than likely is not diet related, but maybe from the meds she was already on or a mealworm shell or something to cause the yeast infection?


Yeah, that was most likely caused from the Baytril. I'm pretty sure I stated that somewhere, but am too lazy to look it all up, lol.


I just have a hard time understanding why more gliders out there would not be showing problems if it were diet related. There are SOOOO many folks that use the HPW (and I am talking about the powder itself, not the mix)

I'll definitely be keeping track of things...taking as many notes as I can.


Originally Posted By: Srlb
Is there any way you would be willing to send over vet records on all the ones that you have taken in already Nicole so I can take it to show Tim and see what he thinks??


Sure, but the "vet records" are mostly just bills and don't have anything written on them except for Leda's, which has a bunch of thing the vet typed up on there. The others just have weights and things such as the medications listed on there. If it'd make things easier, I can just give you my vet's # so the 2 vets can talk and maybe work together to figure out what's wrong.

I've already got Leda's vet papers scanned onto the computer, so I'll PM you a link to the scans, as well as to the x-ray I got of Leda.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: BelladonnasMom
HPW = No supplement thumb


LOL I guess that's why it wasn't suggested smile lol.

meh. worth a shot.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:28 AM

Silvara is choosing not to have joeys anymore though, so the possible reason for that is the change of mates is what I was trying to say. I know she isnt one of the sick ones.

Quote:
Sure, but the "vet records" are mostly just bills and don't have anything written on them except for Leda's, which has a bunch of thing the vet typed up on there. The others just have weights and things such as the medications listed on there. If it'd make things easier, I can just give you my vet's # so the 2 vets can talk and maybe work together to figure out what's wrong.


Not the invoices, but the actually records out of your chart there at the office, but yes, maybe you can have your vet call Tim and ask him about all this.

Quote:
Rosa's parents are Mick and Hera, who are both original hets that Susan pulled from her breeding stock of gray gliders. So, unless Susan has further lineage on them(not that I'm aware of) then that's all I've got.


Rosa is not going to be bred then is she? Since there isnt enough info in her background to know how clean or unclean the line is? Especially since we wont know if it is a genetic issue going on with her. Granted her parents are healthy, however, do you know of any other joeys that have ever come out of this pair?
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:42 AM

Silvara's mate is still young, so, odds are, he's still "practicing", lol. I doubt it has anything to do with her health. wink Also, she's twice his weight, so she might just not be letting him breed her.

My vet doesn't give me anything other then a receipt listing what all I'm being charged for, the weights of the gliders, the results of any tests that were run, and any instructions for meds(although usually that isn't even written since it's got everything on the labels). The only time she's ever given me something other them the receipt was when I got my boys neutered and when I took Leda in because I had to drop her off, so the vet wasn't there to tell me everything in person. :\

Why wouldn't I breed Rosa? If there IS something wrong with her genetically then I will no longer breed her, but if she's just got an infection or it's diet-related then I can't imagine why that would be a reason to say she's "unclean"... Her lines have been bred for many years and many, many people have offspring of her parents and they've been bred out many generations with no known health issues. I would consider that proof enough that the line is a healthy line.

Keep in mind that her parents are over 5 years old and 5 years ago it was extremely rare for people to keep track of lineages, especially someone who had as many gliders as Susan had at the time.
Posted By: DirtyPaws

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 01:56 AM

I just want to thank you Peggy and Nicole for "getting together" with this and working oh so civilly. And my hats off to you Nicole for all the research you're doing! It must be so stressful to have all of everything going on with them, but you're using your stress constructively to help get to the bottom of your babies ailments! In turn helps us all out!

Hang in there and keep searching for answers!
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:00 AM

Quote:
Silvara's mate is still young, so, odds are, he's still "practicing", lol. I doubt it has anything to do with her health. wink Also, she's twice his weight, so she might just not be letting him breed her.


Once again, I wasnt saying she was sick, I was just thinking she didnt want to breed with another male other than the original male she was in with. You mentioned how she was breeding back to back and now all of a sudden no more joeys, that is the only reason I asked, it sounded like a concern in your post, I was only trying to help find an answer for you. This is what I was going off of,

Quote:
However, Silvara, who has always bred alot, I've caught breeding twice and both times there were no joeys...


Thanks for clearing it up about the younger male she is now in with.

Quote:
Granted her parents are healthy, however, do you know of any other joeys that have ever come out of this pair?


This is why I asked that question...do you know who those joeys are and where they are right now? And who they have been bred with? If you can share any of that info that would be FANTASTIC!! You say there have been no known health issues,so I am sure that means you looked up all her siblings and checked it out.

Quote:
Why wouldn't I breed Rosa?


Lack of lineage. But that is just me personally on that one.

Quote:
Keep in mind that her parents are over 5 years old and 5 years ago it was extremely rare for people to keep track of lineage


This is true and a whole other topic, and I want to keep this one on track with the health issues. Maybe we can come back to this some other time. thumb

Lets concentrate on finding other avenues that may need to be checked into.

When did all of this start Nicole? Was it before or after you had those Mealie mites and had to empty out the glider room?
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:20 AM

Quote:
WHPS (Wombaroo High Protein Supplement) has been used in Australia for many years, not in sugar gliders diets and not in the large portions that HPW calls for.


Kris, curious, if WHPS was not used in Australia in sugar glider diets, why and how could they say this is a product for sugar gliders then? Why would this company promote that it is a product for flying foxes, sugar gliders and other nectar and sap eaters?

Pockets was told of this by some of her Oz friends that fed it as well.

Just curious, as I find that statement interesting and why we have never been told this before with all the mention as how the Australians have used it for years.

http://www.wombaroo.com.au/high_protein_supplement.htm
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:26 AM

I'm good friends with 2 people who have some of Rosa's siblings(Leyna has her sister and Katarina has her brother). There's also another one listed in the Pet Glider database, as well as MANY half-siblings. wink I'm sure there are many people here who can look at their cremino/cremino het's lineage and will see one or both of Rosa's parents. smile

The reason why databases were created was just for cases like this and so that we don't have to all learn and memorize every single relative to our gliders, lol.

As for her lack of lineage, EVERY glider has an end to their lineage somewhere, lol.

As an example, I just checked your site and clicked the first leu het I saw... Sil. His grandfather, Mickey, is from 2 parents with no recorded lineage. If Mickey had never been bred, then you wouldn't have your boy. wink

In fact, Mickey is STILL being bred today...he's owned by Sheila. I even have one of his sons, Milky Way. smile

So, are you saying that Mickey, the grandfather to your boy, should not be bred because only his parents are known?

See where I'm going?

Anyways...back on topic. lol

We're having to look at one avenue at a time, which is why we're waiting for the test results to come back on Rosa's C&S test. If that's negative(to be honest, I'm kinda hoping for a positive, because then at least we'll know what's wrong!) then we're going to be doing bloodwork and an x-ray. The bloodwork is going to show the thyroid levels(if we can get enough for that test), cal:phos levels, iron levels, and whatever else the vet thinks we should test for. Hopefully among all of that we'll find SOMETHING!
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:29 AM

As for the "mealie mites", I did a bit more research and discovered they were actually just grain mites, so I was spazzing and bleach-mopping my glider room(walls and all! lol) over nothing. tounge Grain mites, from what I read, are harmless and just like to eat the grain. To keep them away you've just got the reduce the humidity by feeding things such as carrots and by stirring the bedding up every once in a while to aerate it. wink
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:31 AM

Quote:
When did all of this start Nicole? Was it before or after you had those Mealie mites and had to empty out the glider room?


I know you said you were going to call around to some of the grain factories, just wondering if anything came of that.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:40 AM

Quote:
Nicole I have actually been using HPW diet for 5 years now. Pockets has been using it a lot longer than myself.


Just wanted to add here for statistical purposes...


I feed Reep's diet which is also Wambaroo based and have for 5 years now too. LOTS AND LOTS of gliders have been through here over those 5 years and I've not seen any of these types of issues either. Dexter is on Reep's and is over 13 yrs old now. Dixie over 11 years. Chip (their son) is 9 yrs old. Dayla is 6 yrs old (their daughter). Wambaroo is (in my firm belief) what got Reep back to health after coming to me almost completely bald.

Based on my experience with gliders I've raised, cared for, and visited (seen with my own eyes) that are on Wambaroo based diets, I do not believe the Wambaroo High Protien Suppliment in and of itself is a dietary issue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:52 AM

One of the questions I asked someone in Australia is how long has WHPS been in existance and why is the high protein baby cereal still being used instead of WHPS over there.

I was told that WHPS was not new, it was made over 50 years ago I believe, it was created for flying foxes in rehab.

Over the years, flying foxes coming into rehab dwindled and that was when WHPS was advertised for glider use.

From what I gathered, most glider owners in AU don't use WHPS, they still use the high protein baby cereal.

Also, I wanted to add this about Nicole's glider with the yeast infection. It was suggested that the cause maybe the use of antibotics. I've had many rescues that have been on antibotics for different reasons and I've never had one develope a yeast infection.

Hopefully with the further testing, your vet will be able to diagnose and provide treatment for your babies, Nicole. Saying a prayer that it comes soon!!
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 02:54 AM

Quote:
One of the questions I asked someone in Australia is how long has WHPS been in existance and why is the high protein baby cereal still being used instead of WHPS over there.

I was told that WHPS was not new, it was made over 50 years ago I believe, it was created for flying foxes in rehab.

Over the years, flying foxes coming into rehab dwindled and that was when WHPS was advertised for glider use.

From what I gathered, most glider owners in AU don't use WHPS, they still use the high protein baby cereal.


Thank you for that Tammy thumb

Quote:
Nicole. Saying a prayer that it comes soon!!


Ditto!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 04:08 AM

Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
WHPS (Wombaroo High Protein Supplement) has been used in Australia for many years, not in sugar gliders diets and not in the large portions that HPW calls for.


Kris, curious, if WHPS was not used in Australia in sugar glider diets, why and how could they say this is a product for sugar gliders then? Why would this company promote that it is a product for flying foxes, sugar gliders and other nectar and sap eaters?

Pockets was told of this by some of her Oz friends that fed it as well.

Just curious, as I find that statement interesting and why we have never been told this before with all the mention as how the Australians have used it for years.

http://www.wombaroo.com.au/high_protein_supplement.htm


To add to Tammy's answer.. I am sure that "some" people do use it, as it was meant to be used sparsely.. however none of the Zoo's use it, none of the Vets or animal nutrition scientist that I have personally contacted use it.. again not to say there are not some that do.. however it is not a mainstream.

My concern with the WHPS is the large amount that HPW calls for. When you contact Wombaroo they only recommend using it as a top dressing.. Pockets PML only uses 3 tablespoons.. that is a big difference to 1/2 CUPS that breeders are told to use.
Posted By: Judie

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 05:38 AM

Yeast Infection can be caused by elevated hormones due to pregnacy or during lactating.

Another cause for Yeast in the GI tract is from an antibiotic which has stripped the normal flora in the stomach and interstine. This will lead to the glider having runny stools and also weight loss.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 03:24 PM

Nicole~

Any results yet from Rosa's C&S test??

Sending more prayers your way!! hug2
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 04:30 PM

Reeny called me this morning and asked me to make a small post for her.

She read this last night and became a bit concerned as she was at one time also using Nicoles mealworm bedding. She is the one who had it analyzed and will find the report and what was told the her as soon as she can and post it.

Her concern is that she has a pair of gliders that much like Nicoles was breeding back to back to back, these gliders have also stopped breeding. She asked me if it is normal for gliders to just take a break in breeding, I personally havent had this until the female was totally done having joeys. If it is a common thing Im not sure. Or could it be something from the bedding? Once again, not sure. But just a thing in common between the two of them...

She will be along to post as soon as she gets home from work.

Nicole, have you ever taken your bedding down to the Grain Elevator?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 04:51 PM

I have had females take a break from breeding. Several of them in fact. My original pair, Dixie and Dexter averaged a set of joeys every 9 months during the years they were breeding. So definately wasn't back to back with them. Duffy and Jewel, also not back to back breeders. Gypsy and Torrey, not back to back breeders. I don't think it is uncommon for gliders to take a break. Also, wild gliders only have joeys once or twice per year. So are they taking a break between joeys or is that a more natural rythem for their breeding habits?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 05:10 PM

Nicole, what about the individual ingredients in your diet? I for one am a firm believer in Wambaroo High Protien Suppliment and I'm not attacking the HPW diet but...

What if you have a contaminated item in your diet? I know, seems like it should effect more/all your gliders if there was but maybe not.

Do you buy your wambaroo in original packaging or repackaged? What about your bee pollen? Or the other things you use to feed your gliders. Can you trace the source of your foods?

Laura faced these issues when she lost so many of her gliders to aflatoxins (Remember the Jorn Act?).

Just trying to throw other things out there to consider.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 05:20 PM

I just got off the phone with the vet(my phone had died, which would explain why I didn't get her message, lol)...

The results are back from Rosa's C&S and the only thing that grew was e.coli, which she said was normal. So, that means that it's not an infection. :\

She also said that they'd need too much blood to check the thyroid levels. However, she wants me to bring Leda back in on Monday to try and get blood again and she's going to check the calcium and phosphorous ratios on her.

So, I guess this means we're back to square 1 and have no idea what's wrong. frown

Peggy, I found a grain elevator near me, but couldn't get ahold of them. I just googled them again and am about to call them to see if they can test my bedding. Hopefully I can reach them this time! If they can do it then I'll try and get them a sample either today or on Monday.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 09:42 PM

Originally Posted By: TWilson


Also, I wanted to add this about Nicole's glider with the yeast infection. It was suggested that the cause maybe the use of antibotics. I've had many rescues that have been on antibotics for different reasons and I've never had one develope a yeast infection.


tmi, I know, but an example:
you are hinting that antibiotics should be eliminated as a source of the yeast infection, which is why I'm doing this.
This is my understanding and personal experience.
A yeast infection is caused by an inbalance of certain bacterias required for the body to function correctly.
When there is an inbalance the body makes noticeable signs to show that somethings not right.
Antibiotics are used to kill off the bad things going on w/ a body (i.e. bacteria).

if antibiotics can be ruled out then why does my doctor prescribe me meds to fix a yeast infection that ALWAYS occurs after I have taken antibiotics for a bladder infection?

Just a thought.
I look at the furbutts as little people. Why couldn't something that happens to humans, happen to our little guys? (no, it won't all be exactly the same, I hope nobody thinks I'm ignorant in saying that - it's my opinion)
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 09:46 PM

From how it was explained to me, the Baytril is a strong anti-biotic and it kills the bad bacteria AND the good bacteria and thus leaves the body open to infections. I didn't realize at the time that I was supposed to feed her yogurt along with the Baytril to keep up the good bacteria. :\

So, yes, the yeast infection IS because of the Baytril. Her body didn't have the GOOD bacteria it needed to fight it off.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 09:48 PM

This is common knowledge with antibiotic use.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 11:04 PM

OK couple things, what all causes seizures in gliders?

Everyone is already asking about contaminated bedding but what about the grain bugs they had in the glider room. Could those have been contaminated & possibly some were eaten before exterminating?

Would symptoms of HLP or carpal tunnel come on & then subside like the attacks Nicole's 2 gliders had? What could/ or does other than a seizure?

I think that Silvara may just not have wanted to get preggers after getting a new mate? So maybe there is no problem with her except possible stress or depression?
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 11:09 PM

Originally Posted By: Dancing
Nicole, what about the individual ingredients in your diet? I for one am a firm believer in Wambaroo High Protien Suppliment and I'm not attacking the HPW diet but...

What if you have a contaminated item in your diet? I know, seems like it should effect more/all your gliders if there was but maybe not.

Do you buy your wambaroo in original packaging or repackaged? What about your bee pollen? Or the other things you use to feed your gliders. Can you trace the source of your foods?

Laura faced these issues when she lost so many of her gliders to aflatoxins (Remember the Jorn Act?).

Just trying to throw other things out there to consider.


Sorry Teresa, I missed this post.

I bought a 5K bag of Wombaroo powder directly from Australia and we bought the bee pollen in a 10-lb bag from stakich.com. I have a vaccuum sealer which I packed up the bee pollen with to keep the rest of it fresh and only have a small back not vacuum-sealed since we only use 1T per batch. So, I doubt there's any contamination there.

The honey we buy right before we make each batch from Walmart, the eggs are hard-boiled right before making the food, and the water we buy bottled(in the gallon jugs).

The gliders also only get bottled water in their water bottles as well.

I make a double-batch of HPW twice a week, so there's no chance of it going bad that fast either(AND it's frozen).

And, the veggies/fruits are all frozen prior to feeding as well, to prevent any spoilage and to kill any possible bacteria, even though I wash everything ahead of time.

I'm a bit paranoid about stuff like that, which is why I'm loath to think it's some type of bacteria in the food.

Also, wouldn't a bacteria have shown up in one of the fecals or on Rosa's C&S test?

I haven't stated as a fact that the problem IS the diet. It's just one of the many issues we're looking at as a possible cause. I've been researching like a mad-woman lately and everything seems to point back to problems with the body not getting enough of this vitamin...or too much of that vitamin...etc... So it all points to probably one of 3 things: 1)they're not getting what they need from their diet, 2)there's something in the diet(such as the soy) preventing them from getting what they need, or 3)there's an underlying problems that's causing their bodies to lose the nutrients/minerals that they'd normally get from their diet.

As has been stated, if it IS the HPW, then I'd think that more gliders would be getting sick and not just mine, BUT, it certainly doesn't hurt to look at everything from all angles, which is what I'm doing and I'm simply trying to put all my findings out for everyone to see.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 11:20 PM

Jennifer, it's always possible that the grain mites may have caused a problem, but from what all I've read, they seem to be harmless little bugs that are nearly microscopic and just like to eat grain. :\ They probably came in the wheat bran I got or are just part of living out in the country.

We're not sure yet if what happened to the gliders were in fact seizures or just cramps of some sort. There's not really any way to tell and I haven't come across anything yet to explain it aside from the thyroid problems. Unfortunately, I can test their thyroid levels because it takes too much blood. frown

Honestly, I'm not worried about Silvara. I find it STRANGE that she hasn't gotten preggers again, but it's far from worrying me because I don't mind one bit if she takes a nice break. I wasn't even sure if I wanted to continue breeding her and had originally planned on putting my neutered boy, Carmine, in with her, but changed my mind at the last minute and decided to put Woodrow in with her. She's always loved being a mother and makes a GREAT mommy, she simply wasn't a good match with Gil and he was stressing her out because he kept attacking her and had even started attacking their last joeys they had together. frown Now Silvara looks much nicer, her fur is no longer clumpy-looking, she's gained her weigh back(although, in her case, that's not really a GOOD thing! lol), isn't nervous any more, and is all-around WAY happier. I think that putting her with Woodrow was a great decision.

If they have joeys, that would be great, if not, I don't mind at all and am just happy to see my girl happy. wink
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 11:45 PM

I just thought I'd cheer up this thread by posting something HAPPY! grin Smidgin, the joey I'm hand-raising, is doing super-well! dance He's 4 1/2 weeks old now and already eating all on his own! So, here are some cute pics to cheer up the sad thread and to remind us that when things are going wrong, we've just got to look at the bright spots in our lives and remind ourselves of what's going RIGHT! wink







grin

Okay, back to being miserable...lol
Posted By: Feather

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/28/09 11:50 PM

Awe, I just love that first pic. What a cutie.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 12:09 AM

Quote:
she simply wasn't a good match with Gil and he was stressing her out because he kept attacking her and had even started attacking their last joeys they had together.


Ok, this to me is either a red flag or pure confusion...

If Gil kept attacking Silvara and then started attacking the joey that would either tell me 1) there was a medical problem with both mom and joey or 2) He needed to be retired. Why would you place him in with Rosa to breed with a different female if he was turning on his original mate and his own joey?
Posted By: reeny

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 12:56 AM

Well sorry this took me so long to get on this post.

But I call Peggy this morning and was concerned about this post. Because much like Nicole I have a breeding pair that has had joeys back to back and now have not had any joeys. As a of this am I didn't feel anything and this is not like them.

I am concerned because I bought some meal worm bedding from Nicole earlier in the summer. I believe it was early July when she got the recall from Bulk Foods. I was having my vet inspection for my USDA license and told her about the recall and she culture the bedding that I got from Nicole. The bags were sealed when I received them. I only used approximately 1/3 of one of the bags.


The culture grew:

Heavy growth of Enterbacter Agglomerans
Heavy growth of Staph Aureus
No Salmonella sp. isolated.

The staph could have been a contaminate. The vet was concerned about the Enterbacter but said the worms should destroy the bacteria. She said that she consulted different opinions. She said if it was her farm she would continue to use it.

I took her advise. I clean my farm all the time. I didn't use any more of the bedding from Nicole just in case. The vet said that if any of my gliders appear sick we could consider the source being the meal worm farm.

My gliders have been fine. Stools are normal and the cultures that have been done on new member all negative.

The only common factor that I have with Nicole is that some of my gliders have taken a break from breeding. Daffodil and Dandelion last joeys 5/22, and Daisy and Sweet William haven't had joeys since the triplets on Dec 12th. That could be an entirely different issue. I would take a break after triplets too.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 01:03 AM

Gil was food-aggressive, that's all. I contacted Sheila(I got Gil from her) and found out that his father also became food-aggressive recently and she had to separate him from his mate as well.

I put Gil with a colony of 3 girls(66% cremino hets. They were supposed to go with Sysko, my albino het boy) because I thought that putting him in a colony situation would help with his food-aggression, and it did. He was still a little crabby at first, but within a few weeks he had completely stopped being food-aggressive.

Unfortunately, 2 of the females(Rosa and Delia) ended up fighting once they had joeys IP, so I had to split them into 2 groups(I put Delia and Violet in a different cage and left Rosa with Gil).

I was actually originally thinking about neutering Gil because I thought that would help, but Sheila told me it wouldn't help. She told me that I should completely isolate(as in, a completely different room...away from all other gliders...in a cage by himself) him for a couple months and that would make him so desperate for the companionship of another glider that he would stop being food-aggressive.

Personally, I thought that was a cruel method, so I decided to try him with the girls first. He enjoyed being in a colony and it helped him. So, I did what I thought was best for both gliders(Silvara and Gil). I know my gliders better then anyone else does and know what's best for them. If I would have isolated Gil he would have gotten extremely stressed because he is a VERY social glider and I do not think he would have tolerated being alone.

Sometimes 2 gliders just aren't a good match.

I've had to separate pairs a couple times, but each time I did it because it was what was best for my gliders. I've also neutered/retired alot of gliders because I felt that there were potential health problems(3 mosaics, a WF, a 100% leu het, and a leu) or because I didn't feel they would be good to breed(like with Carmine. He injured Skylar twice: once before I got her and once afterwards. So, rather then pairing him with someone else, I neutered him because I didn't think it was a good idea to allow him to try and breed again and risk hurting another girl).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 01:03 AM

Smidgin is adorable!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 01:42 AM

Originally Posted By: mgrizz89
Originally Posted By: TWilson


Also, I wanted to add this about Nicole's glider with the yeast infection. It was suggested that the cause maybe the use of antibotics. I've had many rescues that have been on antibotics for different reasons and I've never had one develope a yeast infection.


tmi, I know, but an example:
you are hinting that antibiotics should be eliminated as a source of the yeast infection, which is why I'm doing this.
This is my understanding and personal experience.
A yeast infection is caused by an inbalance of certain bacterias required for the body to function correctly.
When there is an inbalance the body makes noticeable signs to show that somethings not right.
Antibiotics are used to kill off the bad things going on w/ a body (i.e. bacteria).

if antibiotics can be ruled out then why does my doctor prescribe me meds to fix a yeast infection that ALWAYS occurs after I have taken antibiotics for a bladder infection?

Just a thought.
I look at the furbutts as little people. Why couldn't something that happens to humans, happen to our little guys? (no, it won't all be exactly the same, I hope nobody thinks I'm ignorant in saying that - it's my opinion)


No, sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. I wasn't hinting that the antibotics be elimated as causing the yeast infection in the gliders pouch, only pointing out that I've had several gliders that were prescribed Baytril and none of them ever got a yeast infection in their pouch from it. Futhermore, there have been many other gliders that have had injuries or illness worse than what I've had and their gliders have had to be treated with antibotics long term and I've not heard of any of them ending up with a yeast infection in their pouch.

I'm fully aware that antibotics work by wiping out bacteria, that means the good along with the bad. ALL of my gliders that have been on Baytril ended up with diarrhea due to the fact that it killed the good bacteria in their intestines.

Your doctor prescribes you meds to treat a yeast infection after antibotics, mine too because yogurt will not cure or ward it off. The antibotics will kill all the beneficial active bacteria in the yogurt too.

Just thought about Lynsie's glider Lydia, I believe she did get a yeast infection in her pouch from antibotics but Lynsie's glider was on antibotics for a LONG time, not just a round of Baytril.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 02:17 AM

A person's liability of a yeast infection has a lot of different factors - some women are put on antibiotics and never get one, others ask for the medications the minute they are prescribed an antibiotic because they know from past experience, they will get a yeast infection. I wonder with gliders if they have similar chances of developing or not developing a yeast infection.

I'm really curious if anyone has ever put plain yogurt in a glider's pouch before to help restore the yeast/bacteria balance. I know it sounds weird but it works on us.

Nicole I sure hope this gets sorted out, I just don't think it's fair you keep getting glider problems rained on you. *hugs*
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 02:42 AM

I'm sorry that you are having such problems with sick gliders frown In my humble opinion, based on reading the thread, I would get rid of ALL of the bedding and ALL of the worms and start from scratch. I realize this might be costly, but since it sounds like you have excellent practices in terms of keeping their food clean, the bedding seems like a very possible source of toxins.

Also, the sources you read about grain mites being harmless...harmless to who? People? The worms? The animals that eat the worms? I would want more info. For instance, if a flea is ingested by an animal, it can cause tapeworms. Could it be possible that ingesting some sort of grain mite could cause a parasite or other health problems in a glider? Since gliders and many other animals that eat things like mealworms are not as well-studied as critters like dogs and cats, I find it possible that these mites could have an impact that is not well known but could be harmful.

Just my two cents since two people who have used this bedding are seeing behavioral changes in their gliders.

I hope you get to the bottom of this and that everything turns out to be OK hug2
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 03:09 AM

Okay, this is going to be a bit long...

I wanted to post that I may have found something!

People were mentioning alot about the grain mites and, in my original research I had mostly searched on how to get rid of/prevent them and, in those articles the only "danger" I'd seen mentioned was them going after grain and being a nuisance, so I'd dismissed them as being a possible cause of what's going on with my gliders.

However, because they were brought up again, I just did a little more research and look what I found: http://www.ces.purdue.edu/extmedia/GQ/GQ-13.html

Quote:
Heavily infested grain and feed become tainted and unpalatable as animal feed. When fed infested commodity, small companion animals (e.g., dogs) can show reduced feed intake, diarrhea, inflammation of the small intestine, and impaired growth. Pigs that consume mite-infested feed have their live-weight gain, feed:gain ratio, and nitrogen retention markedly reduced.


...

The first gliders to get sick were Arby and Chief and I noticed something was wrong in the beginning because they were SOOOO small. I posted about it even, but it was dismissed as being just a "fluke" because sometimes joeys are just smaller, so I didn't think much of it. THEN, the next "symptom" was diarrhea! Of course, we then attributed that to the giardia.

Well, after 2 full treatments and well over a month, they STILL had diarrhea and we couldn't figure out why!

Now I think we might have our answer...

Also, I always feed my females with joeys more mealies then I do my other gliders, so that would explain why 1)Leda and Rosa got sick, 2)why Precious pulled her joeys, and 3)why my other girls seem to have gone on a breeding strike!

When I first discovered the mites, it was by accident. I'd picked up my container and my fingers felt all dusty, which I thought was odd. I took a closer look and there were THOUSANDS of mites on the container! It looked just like dust from the wheat bran, which is why I hadn't noticed it before.

Well, after taking the farm out, I took a better look around my glider room and they were EVERYWHERE! On the walls, the floor, the cages,...EVERYWHERE! There were millions of them!

I totally freaked out and hubby and I pulled out every single cage THAT DAY and power-washed and bleached them and then mopped down the entire glider room with bleach(floors, walls, the ceiling...everything!). I also washed all of the gliders' bedding in the washer in hot water and dried it on high heat AND I cut and made brand-new pouches right then and there, which I also washed and dried before switching the gliders all to the new pouches and putting them into the freshly-washed cages.

We put the term "deep-clean" to the test!

I also put my beetle farm(the mealies were in a different room and I saw no mites in there, the beetles, on the other hand, had been in the glider room because I wanted that part of the farm warmer so they'd lay more eggs), which had thousands of beetles and probably at least 100,000 baby mealies/eggs in it, outside in a large tupperware. Unfortunately, I left them outside and forgot about them, so, by morning, they were all fried and dead, so everything got thrown out.

I still find stray mights here and there, but no infestations and I was told that it was normal to have a few grain mites because we live out in the country. So, I never thought much about it since then. :\

Anyways...I'm going to talk to my vet about it tomorrow(or Monday, if she's not in tomorrow) and see what she thinks. I'll also look around and see if I can find any stray little buggers to bring to the vet.
Posted By: Judie

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 03:34 AM

The mealworm farm... I have to agree that it needs to be dumped and along with the worms.

I have raised mealies in the past... but always with bedding that was made with baby rice cereal, wheat germ, wheat bran with Rep Cal added and also layered newspaper on top of the bedding. Bedding still needs to be turned daily and I would only add apple or carrot chips. Too much fruit or veggies and moisture will build up and then a problem of mold.

I would not even consider mealworm bedding with puppy milk or any other milk product. My concern would that it would eventually become tainted.

You might consider changing your diet... since the one you are feeding does not seem healthy for some unknown reason.

Purchasing bulk products need to be refrigerated or better yet frozen. Over time... dry food products loose some of their nutritional value thus best to freeze. Open products of dry food being used rather quickly... can be stored in the frigerator.

Mold is highly toxic to gliders. Even if bugs eat the mold they are not affected but when the glider eats the tainted bug... the glider's liver then can be permanently damaged.

So.... 1)throw out the mealworms and the dry puppy/HPW milk based bedding and start over. Use a different type mealworm bedding with new worms. 2) Feed another diet completely.

With all the money you have probably spent in vet bills... I think it would be cheaper to redo the worms and diet.

Diet is the Key to raising Healthy Sugar Gliders.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 03:50 AM

Nicole, you need to contact everyone you sold that bedding to and let them have a heads up on what is going on. It MAY be possible that is the reason for Reeny to have some of the same things going on as you, as far as breeding goes.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:01 AM

I've only sold bedding to 2 people. Reeny's one and I've already contacted the other person and am waiting for a response back from them. I'll shoot Reeny a PM to tell her to check for the grain mites as well, just in case she doesn't come back to check this thread.

Judie, thank you for the heads up. I'm going to sit down tomorrow and re-write my mealie-farming tutorial. I'm also going to contact bulkfoods.com and see if they've had any problems with grain mites in their grain products. We live out in the country, so, odds are, there are the grain mites everywhere already. :\
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:10 AM

Quote:
Diet is the Key to raising Healthy Sugar Gliders.


clap
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:16 AM

I would also comb the literature to see what medical care was needed for animals after grain mite exposure.

For instance, the study you cite says they show reduced weight and diarrhea...was this just a short term effect after ingesting mites? Or a long term effect that needed additional medication to bring the animals' offspring back up to a healthy birth weight and stop the intestinal problems? Even if you only have a few mites left, your gliders may need additional treatment after consuming them. You might end up having to do some super sleuthing and find out what protocols were followed in the livestock you read about in the article...perhaps the treatments could be adapted to gliders.

Wishing you the best of luck thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:27 AM

Nicole, I would take Jen's advise.. I'm also wondering if that is what it is... can the vet confirm it somehow?
Posted By: USMom

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:36 AM

Originally Posted By: lovely1inred

I'm really curious if anyone has ever put plain yogurt in a glider's pouch before to help restore the yeast/bacteria balance. I know it sounds weird but it works on us.


I'm not sure how this works with other people, but I've always been told to eat the yogurt.

I don't think that method would work with gliders either. Putting it in a gliders pouch is only going to make her want to clean it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 04:48 AM

Originally Posted By: USMom
Originally Posted By: lovely1inred

I'm really curious if anyone has ever put plain yogurt in a glider's pouch before to help restore the yeast/bacteria balance. I know it sounds weird but it works on us.


I'm not sure how this works with other people, but I've always been told to eat the yogurt.

I don't think that method would work with gliders either. Putting it in a gliders pouch is only going to make her want to clean it.


As a nurse I can tell you that adding sugar to the existing yeast infection will only FEED the yeast and make it WORSE! Much much worse!!!
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 05:25 AM

Kris, in some of the articles I read it said that the mites would show up in a dog's feces. I'm not sure if it'd show up in a glider's feces though.
Posted By: Judie

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 06:19 AM

Nicole... just dump out the worm farm including the worms and start over.

I know I would not want to eat my cereal with those grain bugs floating in my dish. Let's face it.... bugs carry and excreat in thier spit, urine and pooh... all kinds of germs just like flies, mice and rats do.

I feel that cleaning up the diet alone should at least rule out the possibility of it being a problem.

Not doing anything to rule out possibilities... you will never find the problem as to what is wrong with your babies. thumb

Yeast Infection can be treated with a Anti Fungial Med... ointment and also an oral suspension. If the vet does not have it... have her call an Exotic Vet and then go pick it up.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 06:40 AM

Yeah, I know. I'm going to make hubby throw out my farm though cause I don't think I'll have the will-power to dump 2 years of work down the drain. *sniffles*

How DO you discard of hundreds of thousands of tiny mealies and thousands of beetles?...

Hmmm...I wonder if there are any uses for or any types of creatures that can eat mealies that wouldn't be effected by the mites?...perhaps they can be fed to fish or something? If so, then maybe someone on CL will want them to feed to some fishies in their ponds or what-not? I just hate to waste all those mealies. :\

Judie, Leda's already on anti-fungal meds(Itraconazole). I've also got a Saline/Chloehexidine Solution that I have to flush her pouch out with twice a week(more often, if needed). That's on top of the Baytril and Clavamox she's getting.

She's not very happy with me right now. To say the least, lol.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: There's something seriously wrong with my glid - 08/29/09 10:34 AM

Continued in Part 2 HERE.
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