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My very first

Posted By: Srlb

My very first - 08/30/08 06:05 PM

This really sucks...I have never even had a sick glider and all of a sudden, here I am posting here...

I lost Bug last night. She just turned two last month. She was always extremely petite and it really always bothered me.

We Did a full blood panel and xrays either the end of May, beginning of June, I'll have to look. Every thing was fine. Perfectly normal.
I voiced my concern about her size and Tim told me that I was just being paranoid because I wasnt used to small gliders.

She ate like there was no tomorrow, her and Snuggle NEVER had any issues over food, and she was always the first one up to eat.

Shawna was at my home a couple weeks ago, and I told her then I was concerned about Bug, she was just so small and frail looking. I didnt allow her to breed anymore after Tret was born, because of my concern for her. She got avacado mixture nightly to try to put weight on her...

I took her in for a necropsy today. It really is MUCH different standing there watching your own glider than someone elses. Not an easy thing to do, but I HAD to watch...I had to see what happened...what did I do or better yet, what did I not do...what didnt I catch?? All the normal questions that go through ones mind...

Tim said this was the first necropsy he will have done on a glider that was fed HPW. He has done them on many many others, all on different diets so he was interested to see what would show.

PERFECT liver, heart looked good, stomach was full, intestines were doing their job. He said it was the best looking glider he ever seen and has NO IDEA from looking at her what could have happened. We sent off lots of tissues and organs for a full blown histopath to see if it could have been a genetic thing, or something going on with the brain.

Her death is a complete mystery. Even if I would have taken her back in, nothing at all would have shown up...I am thinking it had to be genetic possibly??

Anyone else have any ideas?
Posted By: Adri

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 06:27 PM

I'm sooo sorry for your loss.... I'm sorry I have no other suggestions as to what may have taken her. Hopefully the pathology report will be able to shed some light.
Posted By: Feather

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 08:08 PM

I am sorry for your loss, may your memories of little Bug comfort you in the days to come.

Deepest Sympathy,
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 10:04 PM

Peggy, Im so sorry to hear this! I cant imagine howyou must feel right now! I love ya and know that you are in my thoughts. Let us know what you find out from the other tests! hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 10:40 PM

Peggy, I am so terribly sorry for your loss. I would think genetic, based on all that seen on necropsy. My prayers are with you tonight. Godspeed little one....
Posted By: LSardou

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 11:01 PM

hug2 Peggy, I'm so sorry about the loss of your little Bug. Sometimes we just will never understand or know the laws of nature. Bug was loved and blessed with a wonderful mommy.
Godspeed sweet little one...

Did Dr. T check her heart tissue?
gangel
Posted By: Srlb

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 11:27 PM

Thank you all for your words and support.

Linda, yes, heart was checked out, and also sent out to the pathologist along with many other tissues and organs.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: My very first - 08/30/08 11:57 PM

Peggy, I'm wondering if she had thrown a clot...since all the organs thus far are showing negative, it could be something to consider. hug2
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 12:02 AM

I'm so sorry Peggy hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 12:41 AM

I'm sorry. hug2
Posted By: reeny

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 12:45 AM

OMG! Peggy I feel so badly for you! I will keep you and Bug in my thoughts.
Posted By: SweetGliders

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 12:48 AM

Oh Peggy,
I am so sorry to hear of your loss. Sending healing prayers your way. hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2

Rest in Peace little Bugs....

Anita heart
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 04:31 AM

Peggy, I am very sorry to hear of Bug.

I, too, lost a glider a little while ago. I took his body to the vet and the vet could not find anything wrong with him, other than the fact that he died. Hot Cocoa was fed HPW as well. His organs looked perfectly healthy and there wasn't anything peculiar about them.

Many hugs are sent your way, Peggy! hug2hug2


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 06:22 AM

Peggy...I am so sorry for your loss hug2
Posted By: BCChins

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 08:09 AM

Peggy I am very sorry that you lost Bug. Please know we are here for you if you need anything.
hug2
Posted By: sugarlope

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 09:28 AM

I'm so sorry Peggy. hug2 Small gliders always make me nervous too, even when everyone tells me they are ok, I worry they just have less in reserve if something happens. She couldn't have had a better mommy looking out for her and she felt the love you had for her every second, so she had a wonderful life. I am sorry that you didn't have more time together, there is never enough. hug2
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: My very first - 08/31/08 08:23 PM

Peggy I am so sorry about Bug. She sounds like Sprite did. Starving to death/eating like a piggy. I pray you will get something back in the lab reports. Not knowing just plain stinks. I'd like to tell you it will get better but I have not reached that point and hearing about Bug is a set back for me too. I hope you at least have Bug to put her to rest like she deserves to help bring closure. Unless you have been there you just can't know the pain. I am sorry you now know THAT pain. HUGS, Tears, love to you and to Bug.
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: My very first - 09/01/08 01:51 AM

I'm so sorry Peggy hug2 hug2
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: My very first - 09/01/08 12:40 PM

Peggy, I'm very sorry for your loss.
Posted By: ozzi

Re: My very first - 09/02/08 01:23 AM

Oh Peggy that is so sad. I am so sorry to read of your loss of Bug.

My deepest sympathies....

Pat
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: My very first - 09/02/08 10:57 AM

Peggy, I'm so very sorry cry It's so sad but true that losing a glider is incredibly difficult - especially when there are no concrete answers as to why frown Hopefully the pathology tests will come up with an answer for you. (I have a tiny glider, too - my little Luna. I always have worries in the back of my mind because she's so very tiny worried )
Again, I'm so very sorry about Bug hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: My very first - 09/02/08 04:22 PM

I'm so sorry Peggy. hug2
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: My very first - 09/02/08 05:10 PM

Aw, hugs hug2 , Peggy. I don't have anything except did they rule out something like a broken neck/back from maybe a sudden fall? It's all I can think of that I didn't see mentioned. frown
Posted By: queenduck

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 03:13 AM

Jen, no trauma. She has been a tiny glider for the past few months, never was a big glider, but had lost some weight. That is why Peggy had her in several times for full blood work and all kinds of stuff, they never found anything wrong. And.. she ate and ate and ate, she ate well and everything came out well, she just didn't gain weight, even with extra fattening foods and such. But no trauma, just a slow decline, then all of a sudden it was rapid.
Posted By: Karin

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 03:28 AM

Hey P...I forgot to send you one of these hug2 .

Karin
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 06:17 AM

One other thing that occurred-Riker didn't eat hardly at all-but was a tub (hypothyroidism-or no activity)...

However, on the other end of the scale would be hyperthyroidism-or constant eating and no gain, which could also stunt development/growth in a young glider one could think....? Would that be worth looking into? I've been told in gliders that the thyroid itself is about the size of a pinhead-extremely tiny, and too small to get an ultrasound of, though magnification of something like an MRI might be possible- however, a blood panel would do if it's feasible at this point. I'm not sure which they run for that one, or all of them, Riker and Mareki had the T4 panel. Just a thought-don't know if it would be at all possible from a necropsy standpoint, but it could explain the symptoms she had. dunno Since the glider isn't needing it, though, it would also be possible to remove and look microscopically-but I have no idea if that would have any value or not-looking at it may have nothing to do with function.
Posted By: Srlb

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 11:51 AM

Alicia, thanks for seeing this and answering Jen in that first one.

Jen as far as the second post goes, yes, we also thought of that. Tristan is sending off many things to pathology to see what may come back.

Blood work was done, not too long ago, and it all came back fine. That is why this is so frustrating.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 07:30 PM

Quote:
Blood work was done, not too long ago, and it all came back fine. That is why this is so frustrating.


But what tests were done? We had to do the T4 panel specifically, no ohers-everything else came back normal on Riker, too-and barely enough blood was taken to run it. He was close to 170 grams when blood was drawn. It is not something run routinely in a panel.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: My very first - 09/03/08 08:36 PM

hug2

Sending best wishes. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Sounds like you were the best suggie mamma you couldn've been and then some! Hopefully you can get to the bottom of this.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: My very first - 09/08/08 03:59 AM

Peggy, I am so very sorry.
Posted By: Sheila

Re: My very first - 09/08/08 09:21 PM

Peggy, we will all miss cute pics of Bug and I know you loved Bug. I am so sorry.
Posted By: gliderboy4life

Re: My very first - 09/09/08 03:40 AM

I am so sorry. You were just telling me about her a few weeks back, and now this.

Now I'm worried about my little Icee i was telling you about.
Posted By: Srlb

Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 06:36 PM

It could have been prevented...if only I had known...

There were no signs, no hissing, no foul smells, no lack in appetite, activity level was fine until the very last night...

Histopath report shows my little baby girl had a severe urinary tract infection that went throughout her poor little body...

How do you tell when they show NO SIGNS at all?

How long had my baby girl been in pain and I didnt know? How long had she suffered?

Just when you think you are doing everything there is to do, and you find it isnt enough.

When talking with Tristan about this, we discussed how we just need to do more UA's on these guys even though it is so hard to do. Most often that is one test that is not done as often as it should be because it is just not that easy to get urine from a glider...

Here is the comment section of the histopath..

Quote:
COMMENT
The primary lesion identified is within the urinary bladder. This is a severe infection with
inflammation extending across the wall of the urinary bladder. I suspect this would be
bacterially induced although no specific microorganisms are identified. This cystitis is also
associated with a suppurative tubulonephritis. There is some evidence of a systemic response
characterized by the interstitial pneumonia.


I'm sorry my little Bug for letting you down, as well as allowing you to be in pain and not even knowing it.... cry
Posted By: ORsuggiemomma

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 06:41 PM

oh, honey you didn't let Bug down. it's not your fault and I am SO sorry for you loss, I know it must be hard.
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 06:44 PM

Oh I am sorry about your baby hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 06:49 PM

Peggy, I am so sorry. I feel as if I have no words that could provide comfort to you but just know I am here if you need me! Lots of love and hugs coming your way! hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 06:53 PM

Peggy, I'm so sad for you. You are NOT a bad mommy by a LONG SHOT...and please don't beat yourself up with the "shoulda/woulda/coulda" game! I lost a glider from a severe UTI also and know your guilt. What makes things worse is that the emergency vet "claimed" to have been a glider owner herself! Did she do a UA before she sub-q'd? Very doubtful! I'll never forgive myself or her for everything...and I'll NEVER GO TO THE EMERGENCY VET CLINIC AGAIN EITHER!! tant (those are harsh words, but that's how strongly I feel about it)

Can you ask Dr. Tristan for me if using the DiaScreen 7/8/10 (pick a number here--every time I turn around, there are more tests on ONE litmus strip) could help in at least WARNING glider owners that there's trouble of this nature? All you need is a few drops of urine to run the test... If he speaks favorably about it, then the word needs to GET OUT THERE that maybe this simple one-minute test can prevent tons and tons of heartache.

Every day, there are new things being discovered about our suggies...and it's so HARD that sometimes we lose a litle one who means SO MUCH TO US. But if this can be a "stepping stone" to learning more, then it MIGHT make the pain a little easier to bear. hug2
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:25 PM

Peggy
I am so very, very sorry. I know how it feels to deal with the emotion of loosing a little one and then later the guilt from learning the cause of death.

You are not to blame. I know that I can say this til I am blue in the face and you will still feel what you feel. Please know that I am here for you.

Bug knew that she was loved. She KNEW it. We can not see what we are not shown.

I'm so sorry.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:30 PM

Peggy, without any signs, you couldn't possibly know. Some animals are so amazingly stoic, it can be hard to phathom. Nature made them that way, as a form of survival in the wild. My heart goes out to you.
Posted By: BeckiT

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:33 PM

hug2 I'm so sorry Peggy
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:46 PM

I'm so sorry for your loss! I had a glider do the same thing a few yeras ago. No warning. She was septic from something internal. Long story. I'm soooo sorry.

As for the urine test, my vet checks their urine when they go in. I will ask Monday what she uses or does to test it. She has sanitized steel tables in her exam rooms and as soon as I put the glider down on it it scent marks and pees everywhere. The Vet collects it on a slide or sometimes with a sterile Q-Tip right from the table. I asked her if it wouldn't be contaminated, and she said no.
Posted By: sugarglidersuz

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:51 PM

Peggy, Please try not to blame yourself. As you said, you had absolutely no warning signs at all! I would be very interested in finding out if Denise's litmus strips would help in diagnosing something like this...
hug2 hug2 hug2
Posted By: suggiemom1980

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 07:55 PM

hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2
I'm so sorry, but Peggy, had you known, you would have gotten her help. Know that Bug did not die in vain. I will now be more aware of this possibility with my gliders and will check into the litmus strips. Again, I am so very sorry.
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 08:18 PM

hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 09:09 PM

(((HUGS))) Peg - These guys are little troopers.

Even Fawkes, with a 3 inch split in his side, was still climbing and jumping around.

Sometimes you can't know - but one thing I'm sure you know is that Bug is in a better place now, and any pain she had in life is long forgotten.
Posted By: Karin

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 09:38 PM

Awwwww P hug2 ...this broke my heart, for you. Please don't beat yourself up (you are pretty tough for such a little one ya know tounge ). I KNOW and you KNOW, you would do anything for these little ones. Sometimes we try to do everything *right* and Someone else has a different plan. I am sure Misu and Tira will keep Bug company until we can play with them again.

Karin
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 10:07 PM

Peggy, I am so sorry. cry


Jen
Posted By: USMom

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 10:42 PM

Peggy, you are just too hard on yourself. I saw her, and if I thought she was sick, I would have told you. I'm not shy. I think though, maybe you are right, we should do more UA's on them. We can catch things that may not be found otherwise. But how do we decide when to do them?
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 10:43 PM

Ok, I may just be slow here, but what is a UA?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 10:59 PM

Mary, a UA is a urine analysis test.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/13/08 11:50 PM

Ok, thought so. What exactly is involved? With all that is going on with Roo, I want to make sure all that should be done, is. Thank you.
Posted By: BCChins

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/14/08 12:44 AM

hug2 Peggy thank you for sharing your information with us. Know you are a wonderful glider owner and you do everything in your power to keep them safe/happy/healthy. hug2
Posted By: theresaw

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/14/08 01:01 AM

To get urine on my glider I take her out of her pouch in the early evening (after she's been sleeping all day). I wipe her backend with a damp cottonball with a little bit of surgical soap. I place her feet on the edge of a shallow metal bowl and put her tail over the edge. She always urinates a large enough amount for a complete UA. I hope this helps. Theresa
Posted By: ozzi

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/14/08 06:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Srlb

Just when you think you are doing everything there is to do, and you find it isn't enough.


Amen to that. I have ALWAYS said that when one thinks they have all the bases covered (when it comes to gliders)think again, and again, and again. I lost one of my wonderful buddies(Fivel)cause I did not cover all the bases, and I was sure I did. I was devastated and still don't completely forgive my self. I am so sorry Bug didn't let you know in some way as the loss of a any of our gliders is always devastating. This was not your fault by any means but I know that won't make you feel any better right now.
Again, my sympathies....Pat
Posted By: Feather

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/14/08 05:27 PM

Peggy,

I am so sorry for your loss. You couldn't have know, gliders are masters at hiding illnesses.

Let your memories of Bug comfort you in the days to come.
Posted By: mommawannabe

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/19/08 01:40 AM

Oh Peggy I am so very sorry for you loss hon. As much as we love these little guys there's just no way for us to know if they show no signs. Please do not feel you let bug down.

Anna
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Cause of Bug's Death - 09/19/08 07:24 PM

hug2 Peggy, I am so sorry for your loss.
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