GliderCENTRAL

Tail Amputation

Posted By: Anonymous

Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 08:45 PM

AliaBrown asked me to post for her, as she was running late for work. She has been keeping me up to date on how her twin sisters, Leilah and Dolly, were doing since she got them from me. I am deeply sad to say that Leilah had self-mutilated her tail due to stress and has less than a half inch tip of tail hanging by the thread and bone is exposed. Alia has made an appointment with her vet for Leilah to be dropped off at the vet's at 7:30am tomorrow morning for tail amputation.

Alia asked me to ask for her what she needs to do post-amputation. What supplies would she need to have at hand, other than an e-collar (I sent her one) and a syringe for feeding? Alia has a stinky Tshirt at the bottom of the cage so it is there for Leilah to burrow into if she chooses to. How long would it take for her tail to heal? Any advice/tips concerning tail amputation would be most appreciated!


Jen
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 08:57 PM

Thank you Jen for taking the time to help Alia out here with her little one. I am so sorry to hear that things didn't get better with poor little Leilah's tail.

She will want to make sure that she has plenty of pain meds, and antibiotics for her.
My vet had given this Collstat Spray to Alicia's gliders that had partial tail amputations which works wonderful.
Dancing would be an excellent person to pm for further ideas or suggestions.
Please keep us posted on how the surgery goes tomorrow!
I will be sending tons of prayers to Leilah and Alia!!!!

Posted By: GliderLove

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 09:31 PM

Alia..you and your sweet baby girl are in my thoughts. I'll praying for a good outcome, and a speedy recovery.

Jen, it's so thoughtfull to help someone in need, even when my babies go to thir new homes, they are still my babies too smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By: GliderLove
Jen, it's so thoughtfull to help someone in need, even when my babies go to thir new homes, they are still my babies too smile


Oh yes, those babies of mine will always be my babies, even though they are being loved on and spoiled by their current slaves. I just want my babies' slaves to be very happy with them.

Alia has been under lots of stress, poor thing, always worrying about Leilah! I really feel for her, as she really loves Leilah and Dolly very much!

I just hope that little stinker will leave her tail alone once this is all over!


Jen
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 10:26 PM

When Lan's tail was amputated in February (for a very similar incident of SM), we didn't get an ecollar on him - we'd had him for 5 days and had never even heard of SMing - and he chewed the site off around the bone - so there was a little bit of spine sticking out:
http://sugarglider.net/images/6494-Lan.jpg

The e-vet who had performed the amputation and our regular vet both agreed to a "wait and see" approach. Lan was given antibiotics and pain medication for some time after the amputation and really, after he had chewed all the foreign material off the end and he was medicated - he left it alone. I'm sure if he had been in an ecollar the tail would have healed well within just a few days to a week. We were thinking we may have to snip the little bit of spine sticking out off - but the vet (and I!) was very nervous about the possiblity that once we brought Lan's tail (stub) back to his attention, he would go after it again, so the vet checked him out some days later and the skin and fur around the spine was actually starting to grow up around the little bone sticking out - some months later, you couldn't even tell he had that problem.
http://sugarglider.net/images/8341-LansTailNearlyHealed%21.jpg
http://sugarglider.net/images/8340-LansTailWheel.jpg

Ever since then (aside from the post-neuter SM in July!) he's been as healthy as can be and doesn't even notice the tail is so short!

I wish AliaBrown and the suggies (and you, too, Jen - bless your heart for helping!) all the best! hug2 hug2 and prayers the little one leaves her tail alone and lets it heal!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 11:38 PM

Thank you for everyones thoughts and prayers. It has been very stressful. Overall her tail sm happened a couple weeks ago. Its 1/2" from the tip of her tail. I'm guessing she got stressed b/c we clipped her nails for the first time (now im gonna get the wheel strips) so i put neosporin on it and took her to the vet. They thought it would heal because it wasnt down to the bone. For a couple weeks it was just hard and scabbed over. Then I looked at it the other day and the tip of the tail was black and barely hanging on. The other side of the tail (the good side) is still pink and has blood flow. Then last night I noticed the tiny bit of bone sticking out of both sides. Two separate pieces of bone. So either she broke it or it broke, idk. So, she goes in tomorrow to have surgery. The vet was really nice and fit her in ASAP. I just called about it today! Bout had a heartattack when the first vet said it would cost 270!!!! I called the other vet that I know takes exotics and its only 70 there!!! Thank god!! Plus they seemed to know more, so double bonus. I do have a few questions for someone who has had this happen:

1. Is the best route to just put the e-collar on right away. Do it while she is knocked out? Or should I wait and see how she acts?

2. Whats the best way to feed her. I have a needless syringe that came with her meds. What about veggies and fruits?? How often so I try and feed her? Give her water?

3. Is it better to put them in the tent for the whole night instead of the cage? The tent smells like them, i can hook up toys. The bonus of the tent is that I wouldnt have to chase her down to feed her everytime. She's not fully bonded so she wont come to me when she is running around in the cage. Or will this just stress them out?

4. I want to carry her around outside the cage as much as possible to keep an eye on her. How do I go about doing this with the ecollar on? Wont she be uncomfortable in the bonding pouch with it on?

5. How long did it take your gliders tail to scab over? Heal? How long were they on pain meds?

I'm sure I will come up with more. Thanks so much to Jen for helping me out!! You have been there with me 100% and I definitely appreciate that!!! You are the best glider mom I know!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/02/07 11:47 PM

Alia, that goes double for you, too. You are such an incredible glider mommy and I am glad you have such sweethearts like Leilah and Dolly. After all, it is my job to keep in touch with you and I enjoy it every single second! I am always there for you, no matter how stupid the questions may be.

Good questions, Alia! I am anxiously waiting to hear the answers to these questions as well.

Many hugs go out to you all! hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2


Jen
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:17 AM

Quote:
Is the best route to just put the e-collar on right away. Do it while she is knocked out? Or should I wait and see how she acts?

1. You will need TWO pieces of equipment here-as either used alone and she can still get to it. YES put it on, because you need to stop the damage here before she makes it worse. So you want the collar.

You also want a large-McDonalds type straw, cut up the side, and medical tape. Tape the straw over/around the tail. This will prevent A-her wrapping her tail into the collar to chew on it, and B-the collar will keep her from taking off the straw/tape to get at it that way. Tails are tricky, especially when the wound is close to the end.

Quote:
Whats the best way to feed her. I have a needless syringe that came with her meds. What about veggies and fruits?? How often so I try and feed her? Give her water?


You can hand feed her by syringe (and may need to for a bit, since the collar can depress them and they won't want to eat properly). I'll attach pics at the end of feeders that work awesome with a collar, and will let her feed herself. No solids for now, they work best with babyfoods, BML or other leadbeaters or Ensure, and drinks. This is because she won't be able to use her hands to eat because of the collar.

Also remove any hard toys she could fall on and get hurt from the cage, and put hammocks in so if she does fall, she is less likely to get hurt.

Quote:
Is it better to put them in the tent for the whole night instead of the cage? The tent smells like them, i can hook up toys. The bonus of the tent is that I wouldnt have to chase her down to feed her everytime. She's not fully bonded so she wont come to me when she is running around in the cage. Or will this just stress them out?


Usually they are separated for at least a while to prevent the cagemate going after the wound (trying to 'help' but aggravating it or even causing more damage). You want her in her own space and with as little risk of fall in the collar as possible, such as a small hospital cage or large plastic tub with holes for air. Or you can turn a larger cage on its side to minimize height.

Quote:
4. I want to carry her around outside the cage as much as possible to keep an eye on her. How do I go about doing this with the ecollar on? Wont she be uncomfortable in the bonding pouch with it on?


Probably. I used a detachable jacket hood to carry Riker, or just let him sit in my jacket or on my shoulder. You'll also want hammocks, a baby blanket crupled on the cage floor, or a large tunnel she can turn around in for her to sleep-she won't be able to use a pouch. You can make an SM tunnel using two embroidery hoops and hand towels and hanging that in the cage for her to get in.

Quote:
5. How long did it take your gliders tail to scab over? Heal? How long were they on pain meds?
Pain meds vary by glider. When they show no interest in going after it without them, you can stop. It should heal at least mostly within 3 weeks. Then you can try her without the collar and see what happens. If she goes after it, it's not time yet. When she's gone a day & night under direct supervision without messing with it, you're probably in the clear. Make sure she has at least 2 weeks on antibioics as well.

Hope this helps.
Edit: OOps! forgot the pics blush

Attached picture Feeders2.jpg
Attached picture Feeders3.jpg
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:33 AM

I'll try to answer your questions to the best of my ability - and hopefully others will chime in (and also correct any mistakes I make here!) dunno

1. Is the best route to just put the e-collar on right away. Do it while she is knocked out? Or should I wait and see how she acts? I would say to put her in the e-collar before she wakes up and then later, say after the first dose of pain medicine after you get home, remove the collar and watch her very closely, if she goes after the tail, put the collar back on. If she leaves it alone, keep a very close eye on her and keep the e-collar handy!

2. Whats the best way to feed her. I have a needless syringe that came with her meds. What about veggies and fruits?? How often so I try and feed her? Give her water? When Lan was in his e-collar, I kept him in a small animal cage - a temporary cage for him - I used the trough-style bird feeders and blended/liquefied his BML and veggies together in one and blended/liquefied fruit in the other sometimes I would give him some vanilla ensure, as well - for the nutrition and he loved the taste! I would hand him his mealies and he'd eat the best he could - he wouldn't let me hold them for him... I also put a small water bottle in the cage. And fed him at his usual time. A few pictures of his temp cage are attached

3. Is it better to put them in the tent for the whole night instead of the cage? The tent smells like them, i can hook up toys. The bonus of the tent is that I wouldnt have to chase her down to feed her everytime. She's not fully bonded so she wont come to me when she is running around in the cage. Or will this just stress them out? I'm sorry - I really don't have an answer for this one.

4. I want to carry her around outside the cage as much as possible to keep an eye on her. How do I go about doing this with the ecollar on? Wont she be uncomfortable in the bonding pouch with it on? I had a double Sissy pouch that Lan could fit in with the collar comfortably and also carried the cage with me to work.

5. How long did it take your gliders tail to scab over? Heal? How long were they on pain meds? Lan did a lot more damage to his tail after the amputation, otherwise I'm sure it would have healed much faster. But I believe he was on pain meds for about a week and antibiotics for 10-14 days. I would think that you would see improvement after 5-7 days but I'm not positive on that...

Good Luck! I'll be keeping you and your little one in my thoughts and prayers. I know how stressful this can be. hug2

Edited to add: I should have known Jen (Xfilefan) would come to the rescue! See - she knows so much more than I do! laugh

Attached picture Lan'sTempCage(3).jpg
Attached picture LanInCollarWithMealie.jpg
Attached picture Lan'sTempCage.jpg
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:39 AM

Your advice is valuable too, Usha-having been there you may have ideas I haven't thought of. And cage set up I don't have pics of-and that can help people trying to do it. thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:40 AM

Ok one more question popped up. I have a travel cage that I can put her in. It is one of the pop up dog kennels that I use when out of town for them. Should I place it near the cage so they can still talk and see each other. I'm worried about Dolly (the healthy normal tail one) getting stressed that she is gone. She doesn't stress easy but I fear that she will be lonely.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:42 AM

Oh one more question...:)....How long was your glider out after surgery. I drop her off in the morning. She usually doesnt get up til 11pm. I'm just wondering what time I need to be home with her. If she will be out longer than normal.
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:43 AM

Yeah, I would keep their cages next to each other so they can smell and see and talk to each other, so they don't get too lonely and stressed.

Thanks, Jen! blush
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:47 AM

Alia, my heart goes out to you in sympathy. I have a pair of gliders who look more like hamsters because they have just 1/2" of tail left...and a third (a little girl) who stressed out over being moved from here to there back to here (she only chewed off the tip). It's hard to go through stuff like this, but they WILL be ok.

There's a couple pictures of the "SM hammock" Jen is trying to describe to you in my Photobucket album. I made mine from fleece...there's much less chances of toenails getting caught than if you use a terrycloth towel. One of them has (Micah I believe) demonstrating how COMFORTABLE it can be for an E-collared suggie. Let me "fetch you" a link. Be right back.

Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:47 AM

Well, in the e-collar, Lan was up pretty much all day and night for the first few days - he was very upset and depressed and I think just plain uncomfortable. That worried me quite a bit - but apparently it's not unheard of. He was in a new surrounding with this strange thing around his neck, away from his family and was trying to stay alert and on guard, I think - just couldn't relax. He slowly got kind of used to being in the collar and was able to sleep after a few days.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:49 AM

Quote:
Ok one more question popped up. I have a travel cage that I can put her in. It is one of the pop up dog kennels that I use when out of town for them. Should I place it near the cage so they can still talk and see each other. I'm worried about Dolly (the healthy normal tail one) getting stressed that she is gone. She doesn't stress easy but I fear that she will be lonely.


That would be fine. They can also have supervised visits when you are right there to watch. If the cagemate messes with the tail, that's the end of the visit for then. I had to do that with Binx and Roxy after his surgery to remove his anal glands.

Quote:
...:)....How long was your glider out after surgery. I drop her off in the morning. She usually doesnt get up til 11pm. I'm just wondering what time I need to be home with her. If she will be out longer than normal.

Do you mean with anesthesia? They should NEVER be out longer than 10 minutes (and that is absolute maximum) post op when that mask come off. Your vet may want to observe for an hour or two to make sure all is well, but normally when fully awake, and able to handle water or gliderade and a treat, they can go. The first day after anesthesia, limit liquids to small amounts every couple hours to prevent vomiting, by dinnertime (10/11 pm) it should be okay to feed as usual. She will also have a bit of trouble regulating her body temp (side effect of anesthesia)...make sure she's warm on the way home, has blankies at home, and that the room is comfortably warm for her.

Edited to add: if the glider is out too long after anesthesia it can be a sign of anesthesia overdose. Glider can end up very ill, with even neurological issues and can even die from too much anesthesia. Glider should be rubbed while waking up (and usually wake up instinctively biting) and should be coming around within 10 minutes. If anesthesia overdose is ever suspected, get the glider back to the vet immediately-there is a med they can give to help get it out of their system.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:49 AM

Thank you for your valuable info and pics to help Alia! I really appreciate it!


Jen
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 12:52 AM

Thanks minkasmom! I forgot to add that fleece can be used as well, and I don't have pics of one that really show them. That's useful. smile
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:01 AM

GRRRR!! I've tried half a dozen times to drag the link over here...and I CAN'T GET IT TO WORK!!! tant

OK, go to www.photobucket.com and type in Minkasmom...the 2 newest pictures in my photo album are the SM hammock & one of my babies (Micah, I believe) in an E-collar in the hammock.

It's so sad how these babies display their stress by chewing on their tails...
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:04 AM

minkasmom, I'm not seeing them. If you can email them, I can attach. My email is xfilefanj9@yahoo.com
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:10 AM

Maybe it's because I'm trying to do it from my laptop. Let me fire up the "other" computer & try it there. (I have a houseful of PICKY electronic toys...GRRRR)
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:13 AM

Okay, Jen...try it this way (this is a DIRECT LINK)

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z164/Minkasmom/?action=view&current=PICT1467.jpg

And here's the picture of Micah in the SM hammock:

http://s191.photobucket.com/albums/z164/Minkasmom/?action=view&current=PICT1465.jpg
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:13 AM

http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb63/AliaBrown/HPIM1883.jpg

What about this instead of the hammock. It's a tunnel I made that is plenty wide. I can put fleece blankies in it for her too!
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:19 AM

That could POSSIBLY work...I'd recommend that you watch HOW Leilah turns around with the E-collar on inside that tunnel. If she has a great deal of difficulty turning about...then it won't work. She needs to be able to move freely.

That tunnel IS cute!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:22 AM

I have a cat tunnel that is short enough to fit in the cage as well. It is a lot wider in diameter. They play with it in the tent. I could put her t-shirt in there and she would still fit perfectly in it. She wouldnt be able to climb on the outside of it very well, but could climb in easily!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:23 AM

Ill put both in and see how she does with them.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:44 AM

Those are options. (and minkasmom-it works now thumb ) As with any cat thing-you're SURE the tunnel doesn't have catnip or catnip oil in it? If not, the tunnel in the pic minkasmom posted will work, and all the parts are easy and not very expensive to get at Walmart.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 01:48 AM

Yea I'm sure. I have been using it in there tent for awhile now and they have been fine with it. So, It would just be a matter of putting it in her travel cage

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 04:02 PM

Well Leilah got dropped off this morning. I'm hoping everything goes ok. They said they wouldn't put the collar on her when she is sedated and tried to tell me the "wait and see approach" I'm nervous about that though. I couldn't get the ecollar on her last time and she got really stressed with us trying. I got a different ecollar from Jen (THANKS!) So, maybe this one will be different! Fingers crossed!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 04:07 PM

Alia, you are most welcome! It was the least I could do. I am so glad I had the foresight and bought more than just a few e-collars from Xfilefan when she made and sold them at the SGGA '05.

I am praying with all my might that Leilah comes out A-OK!

Many hugs go your way, Alia! hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 07:50 PM

I just received word from Alia (text via cell) that Leilah is doing good and the vet was trying to tell Alia that Leilah does not need any pain meds. Does she need any pain meds or not?


Jen
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 08:02 PM

What the heck is it with these vets that think gliders don't feel pain like we do-particularly post op? If that were the case, the ecollar would never have been invented!!

Sorry-vets are just getting on my last nerve lately. mad

GET the pain meds. Tell them it's YOUR money, and YOUR glider and you won't take no for an answer. It's not like you're asking for enough for a person to dope out on, I swear. 7 days worth of Torb or Butorphenol isn't much, and that tail will likely hurt to some degree. The thing with self mutilators is they seem to be MORE sensitive to it than the average glider in the first place...it's the difference between why some will and some won't when faced with the exact same situation.

If they still won't try telling them you will not only find another vet but report them for neglecting the needs of their patients and see if that does anything. Remind them it's your money and your pet and they don't have the right to withold post operative pain relief.

Again, sorry if this is coming out antagonistic (I've given it to a couple vets here for the same thing-that I DO NOT use anymore, btw)-this is the fourth one this week and it's unconscionable!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 08:41 PM

YES!!!!!!!!! Tell her to get pain meds!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 08:43 PM

I have been through this three times.
Everytime I have needed the pain meds. They will attempt to go after the wound if you dont.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 09:17 PM

Thanks! I just sent a text to Alia and let her know!

Jen, you can vent all you want here! lol Sometimes it does some good to get it out of your system. I vented quite a bit when my female Deirdre jaundiced and the vets didn't even know what the heck they were dealing with.

Thanks again!


Jen
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 10:36 PM

Jen/Alia I had suggested to look into this earlier in this post. I really works GREAT! Most Vets do sell it. I've used it on my glider and Alicia (Queenduck) has used it on two of her gliders that were also tail amputees. It is "safe for gliders"

Collastat Spray
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:16 PM

Alia sent me a text just a few minutes ago. She said her vet gave her some metacam. Is this a pain med?

I will text her and let her know to get some Collastate spray at the Vet's.

Thanks!


Jen
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:21 PM

Yes Metacam is a pain medication.
Metacam though this is only used for a few days due to possible liver damage.

Sending tons of hugs and prayers! hug2 heart
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:25 PM

Hi everyone! Leilah and I are home. I had a few questions. Should I just go ahead and put the ecollar on or do the who wait and see approach? I asked about the spray and they had never heard of it and didnt have it. They gave me metacam and i also have some of the B (cant remember the name) pain meds from the last time i went to the vet.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:35 PM

I would not take any chances with her just now. Since she has already SM'd prior, once the pain medication starts to wear off she will go after her tail.

There have been some people that have used the Large McDonalds straws to cover the tail. You would slit the straw put it over the tail and tape it with surgical tape.

The link I gave you earlier about the Collastat Spray, you can order it from there.

The medication that you have from previous, I would suggest NOT to use it, unless your vet has approved it. Things change especially their weight and size and alot of medications are adjusted according to their weight.

Good Luck Alia, keeping you and your baby in my prayers.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:40 PM

So are you saying to go ahead and put on the ecollar then? Sorry I was confused!

Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:41 PM

I'm sorry, Yes, I would highly suggest doing so.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:45 PM

Ok I am going to attempt to put this on her. lol

Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:54 PM

thumb
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/03/07 11:55 PM

I'm hoping the B is Butorphenol.

CAUTIONS: with the Metacam. You can ONLY give it for 3 days, no more often than twice daily, and it will wear off after about 4 hours as far as the pain killer goes (that doesn't work all that great anyway)-it's main function is anti inflammatory. Beyond that, if you give it you are risking permanent damage to her kidneys and liver, and if she hurts you'll be put in the position of having to fight for something else. (that's another one of those things that vets are doing lately that's really annoying-it should only be used for minor/moderate inflammation/swelling and not as a first line pain med in these guys).

Think about it this way-how well does Advil really work when someone has just cut and stitched on you? It doesn't work any better for them.

I'll be busy this evening, but if you need help, please call-my cell was left in the car but I just got it in and on the charger-so if I'm in another room and don't hear it I'll call back, AND I'll be up at work all night, so no worries there, either-though if I'm with a guest I might need to call you back if I'm not where I can just answer. My cell # is 435-640-9438.

You'll probably have more success with the collar with 2 people until you get used to it, and she stops fighting so hard. Have the second person hold the glider down with thumbs along the spine, and you'll kind of need to (GENTLY) pull her head toward you so she doesn't scrunch her neck to get the collar wrapped around-then tape. It can take a few tries to get it straight. If you can just get it on, and let her fight it out (a blanket on the floor works), she should be calmer later to reposition it if it doesn't come off.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:01 AM

Yes, the B is for Butorphenol. So should I give her the metacam or give her butorphenol. I don't want her to be in pain.
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:06 AM

Did your vet approve the Butorphenol? If not, I would use what was prescribed.

Also, here is a link to another members discussion about putting on an ecolar, and Xfilefan has given some great pics, as well as pics of special feeding dishes that will help with her eating and drinking.

ECollar Discussion
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:09 AM

I got the feeding dishes that someone posted. The Butorphenol was given by the first vet when i took her in. 3 weeks ago.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:17 AM

Linda, the butorphenol was prescribed for this glider a short time ago, so it should be fine.

Personally, I would go with the Butorphenol. Metacam can be used later or if there looks to be any swelling/inflammation, when the pain isn't so intense as it will be the first few days. Butorphenol can be given every 4-6 hours as needed if she acts like she is hurting (you can confirm that with the vet), as opposed to the only twice a day on the Metacam.

The only things to watch for with the Butorphenol is as with any narcotic painkiller, it can 1-constipate-so add a little extra watery fruit (babyfoods are good since you'll be using the feeders and have extra water in them) and extra drinks like gliderade daily, and it could make her lose her appetite a little. If she does, hand feeding usually solves that, as they're more willing to take it from you than going to their dish. But you won't have the side effects on her organs to worry about. It can also make her a little less active than normal-she'll want to sleep more, which is actually good for her right now for healing...you can wake her up for extra fruit/fluid every few hours.

Also, if the vet doesn't have her on an antibiotic, watch for signs of infection, and call the vet if you notice any. That would include heat/redness/unusual oozing from the wound. With these I always advise an antibiotic, but not all vets give one at the outset.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:45 AM

She has the ecollar on and i wrapped her tail. poor baby. I got a good video of her scooting around. Couldnt resist. They did give her an antibiotic. Scared the [censored] out of me because in the begining they brought out a needle. I thought i would have to inject it. But luckily it was just to draw out the meds and then give it to her in the mouth without the needle.
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 12:48 AM

I know, they look so sad and put out in those things. hug2

So did they give you antibiotics to give at home for the next 10 days or so, or just at the office?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 01:42 AM

at home, its a bottle, i will have to look up the name, its to be given orally, for the next couple days. Ill have to read, but right now i gotta run!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 01:45 AM

any idea how long to keep her in the ecollar? Its the tip of the tail, doesnt look like it will take long to heal!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 02:18 AM

1-3 weeks is usual, depending on how fast she heals, and barring infection. You want the stitches out, no redness or raw skin and the incision completely sealed, plus her not showing interest in it. Wish I could give you an exact number of days, but all gliders are a little different. Hoping it goes fast! smile
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 02:20 AM

Just wanted to take a minute to send some hug2 your way. Praying for a speedy recovery.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 02:35 AM

dunno what about Torb, that's what my vet used for when i got my little guy nuetured, the vet said it'd help him sleep most of the day as well as take care of the pain. I'm not a vet and i know this is alot more bigger issue, but i just thought i'd throw it out there, you could see if they have that for pain meds!
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 02:55 AM

actually, Torbuterol (Torb) and Butorphenol are very, very similar, both a narcotic painkiller, and very close in sleepiness factor. So as long as she's got one of the two, it's fine. smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 04:06 AM

Thank you for pointing that out to us, Jen. I am glad that she has the B stuff.

Last Alia talked to me, she was feeding Leilah some blended fruits and a blend of veggies and BML. Leilah lapped up some of both very well. Alia will feed her again when she gets home at around midnight and around 5am before she has class at 8am.


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 05:46 AM

I just got done feeding her. She ate prolly 5 syringes full of both BML and the fruit smoothie. I fed it until she stopped taking it. The actual part of the tail that is a wound is very small. The majority of it is just skin they pulled over or skin in general. I would say the wound is smaller than the tip of a pen. So I am hoping she heals fast. She still had the ecollar on when i got home and seemed to be doing ok. Her cage is up against dolly's. Dolly seemed a little sad but tomorrow night they can have reunion time. I will wake up at five and feed her again and kim will feed her tomorrow at 10. Then I am home at 12:20 so I will see what she is up to. Thank you for all the thoughts and prayers!!! Crossing my fingers!!
Posted By: glidergrl1513

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 11:03 AM

hug2 You and Leilah will be in my thoughts and prayers Alia!! You are doing so well with her
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 03:11 PM

Alia, you are doing very well with Leilah. The bond is growing stronger between the two of you. She now knows you are there to help her. All of my crossables are crossed for Leilah's speedy recovery!

Many hugs are sent your way! hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 06:33 PM

Well kim fed her some and she eat some more. Each time we have fed her she is eating a couple syringes full. I fed her at 5, kim at 10 and I just fed her now at 1. I gave her her antibiotic and pain killer as well. The bandage on the tail fell off. I don't think she pulled it or anything because it wasn't nawed on, i just think it wasn't on good enough. So i put it higher up so it would hold better. The wound still looked good so i dont think she was able to reach it. I gave her her pain meds because she was crabbing when i touched it so hopefully those kick in. A few questions: How long does butrophenol normally last? Should I be putting neosporin on the wound or just leave it? The vet didn't say. And one more question. When I take off the ecollar in a couple days/weeks will she go grooming crazy? I ask this because she has been getting food around her chin and neck. I wipe it off but obviously it will still be a lil wet. So when I take it off is she going to spend the next hour cleaning herself?
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/04/07 07:37 PM

You can put neosporin on it. As long as she can't lick it, you can use the kind with pain relief, which may help the pain meds last a little longer. If she can get to it, only use the regular kind.

Normally, the Butorphenol will last 4-6 hours, depending on how bad the pain is. You can redose after 4 hours, but not sooner.

And gliders are normally very clean and well groomed. Yes, she'll likely go crazy grooming for a couple of hours (watch close). You can help by cleaning her with a warm wet washcloth, and holding her on you until she's completely dry. Believe it or not, plain kleenex (not the kind with lotion or anything) will help her dry even faster if you rub her down with them, too.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/05/07 01:08 AM

Well leilah just ate again. I gave her some more of her pain killer and her last dose of antibiotic for today. She got to try some hawaiian delight, some blueberry yogurt, and carrots and her BML. She's been eating pretty good. I think she is going to get fat with all this eating lol. We have been feeding her every couple hours and she eats a lot. I have been giving her the powerade water too. So, all and all she is doing good! Would the stuff the vet gave her make her poops a lil loose?
Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/05/07 02:38 AM

Yes, you can expect to see some loose stools. Just make sure she is getting plenty of fluids. You could offer her a little piece of "oat meal" the regular kind (not the one minute).
I'm happy to hear that she is getting better...She probably is just taking all this attenetion in...sweet little girl.
Thank you for the update!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/06/07 05:39 AM

Well Leilah is doing good. Still feeding every 5 hours. Its soo cute to watch leilah and dolly when they get to play together. Dolly tried to climb into the ecollar tonight. It was soo funny! She misses her sister. She hasn't been playing or eating as much. I give her her mealworms and she doesn't flip out for them like usual. So I am going to give her a little extra TLC tomorrow. Poor girl. I had to wash leilah's bottom today. Her poops are soft enough to stick to her fur if she doesn't poop a certain way. So she had some poop stuck in her fur and i had to wipe it off with a wash cloth. I tried to wipe off her neck a little too. She spills a lot of the food i give her into her neck. Other than that she is doing good!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/06/07 08:56 AM

Awwww!!! You are right, Dolly misses her sister! Too bad you didn't have a chance to take a pic of her doing that!

I am glad Leilah is eating very well. As for the food getting stuck in the neck area underneath the ecollar, it isn't permanent, thankfully. Oh, what fun it would be, when the ecollar comes off, Leilah will have a washcloth bath! LOL!

Yes, please give Dolly some individual attention and some extra lovin'! She will bask in that!


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/10/07 01:17 AM

Well just got done feeding leilah again. Everything is going good. It's been almost a week since she got the surgery done. I checked her tail on Sunday, it wasn't scabbed over yet, just kinda gooey (not in an infected way). So I put some neosporin on it and rewrapped it. Other than that I have gotten used to feeding her every 5 hours, it just seems normal anymore. She eats extremely well. Still eating at least 4 syringes full every 5 hours. Kim enjoys feeding her too and loves to hold her. She laughs about how she is going to get comfortable with her and once we take off the ecollar she will get bitten haha. I'll update if there are any changes!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/10/07 03:25 AM

hug2 I'm happy to hear she's doing so well! laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/10/07 03:40 AM

Oh, Alia and Kim! Bless your hearts for being such good mommies!

I had to chuckle about the comment Kim made about getting very comfortable, only to get bitten when Leilah's ecollar comes off. I seriously doubt she will bite, as she will be so glad to be free of that ecollar! Kim might get a face hug, though! lol

Give both girls a kiss for me. I miss them.


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/16/07 03:40 PM

I have a question. How do you guys feel about taking of the bandage. It has been 13 days since she had her surgery. I took off the bandage sunday and she hasn't done anything to it. I know she can't get to it. My question is that there is an area that is red. Not red like she has been biting it. I know for a fact she hasn't. I remember seeing this when I first bandaged her up. I think i notice it now because the protectant the vet had around it is black and its wearing off and now i can see it. I'm just way nervous about it healing. It should heal since she can't get to it right?!? The vet didn't mention anything about wrapping it up in the first place, so I i figure this has to be normal then. I know she is not in pain and moves around just fine. The only thing I can think of is the fact that the area needs air to heal. If it continues to be bandaged it will just stay wet and take longer to heal right?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/16/07 04:45 PM

As long as she can not get to it, I agree, that it needs air. I would leave it unbandaged.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/16/07 11:26 PM

ok thanks! I will keep it unwrapped!!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/18/07 07:42 PM

Ok so I have a question. I have been feeding leilah through a syringe still because she has her ecollar on still. The last couple days I have been getting a little bit on her nose when feeding her. Well this was just last night that I got a lil on her nose. She blew it out. I went to feed her earlier and noticed she was short of snorting out. Not a full blown sneeze just short of when you blow out of your nose. I was wondering if you guys thought this was because she got a lil BML in her nasal passages. After I started feeding her she stopped and I had her out for 20 some minutes and she didn't do it again. Just right when i woke her up. Any ideas? Think its my unsteady hand's fault? lol
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/19/07 06:59 AM

Quote:
Think its my unsteady hand's fault? lol


Probably. smile (My hands aren't always the steadiest, either, lol) Make sure and clean her nose off if that happens so she doesn't get any in her sinus or breathed or worked down into her lungs that could develop into an infection later. With Binx and Riker I kept damp Q tips and damp tissues handy (Riker was a mess, lol). Riker is the one where I found out bathing a glider full body is much like trying to bathe a cat-if not for the collar I'd have had tooth punctures to go with all the scratches-which happened the first time I tried it without the collar, lol...but he was SO bad a washcloth just wouldn't cut it. Every feeding I'd clean the collar out with qtips and toothpicks (to scrape any dried stuff), and every 2-3 days he'd get a full body dunking (the meds at the time also gave him on/off diarrhea). That would get the stuff that wouldn't come out with the washcloth, and I didn't want irritating his skin because it stayed there too long.

If you ever do need to give her a bath, I used the bathroom sink (shallow) scrubbed down with cleanser and rinsed with hot water for at least 10 min so no residue...then fill it about 2-3" or so with water so when you put your WRIST in it it feels almost like it's not there at all-that's the proper temp-and would submerge him up to his neck to work the stuck gunk out of his fur-shallow enough to stand but not deep enough to drown if he got loose. Then I'd wrap him in a big pile of PLAIN kleenex (no lotions or antibacterial anything) and a towel I'd get ready beforehand-the tissues really help dry them much faster-and keep him in my jacket until he was completely dry. No soap (it will dry out their skin and make them itchy)..just plain water. It reallly helped make him feel better, for all he hated the bath, because he couldn't go more than 5 min without his collar before he'd be attacking his cloaca, but his need to groom in his brief times out for a neck rub seemed much less after a bath.

How is she healing up otherwise? Any redness or anything? What's the latest from the vet? (sorry, question barrage here, lol)-been wondering how she's doing in specifics-just my nature smile )
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/19/07 03:28 PM

Leilah hasn't made the sounds anymore, so I'm fairly certain that was it. She is too bad with the syringe. Sometimes it goes around down by her neck, but overall her body is just unfluffy looking lol. I figure when i finally take off the ecollar i will give her a full bath (with a washcloth). She doesnt seem to mind when I use the washcloth method. I do it every couple days. Sometime I have to do it sooner if she gets poop stuck in her fur (yuck!). All and all her tail is looking much better. The vet has not called even once to check on her. I'm not planning on going back to them if i can avoid it! Her tail isn't red anymore, just looks like its healing. Its starting to scab up with the air its getting, so I am happy about that. Not much else going on. She eats well, always has a full belly! She loves her time out when she gets to run across the floor and get a body rub! Dolly is missing her but their cages are put together and every other night they get to play together (they normally just cuddle). I think Leilah will be such a sweetheart after all this. She crabs when we first enter the cage but as soon as she sees food coming its a whole different story lol!

Thanks for the help!!!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/20/07 11:00 PM

laugh I'm so happy to hear that she's doing so well! You're such a great glider mom! hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/20/07 11:38 PM

Awww thank you so much!!! That made me smile!! jump dance thanks
Posted By: Sabarika

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/21/07 04:30 PM

I'm so glad she's doing better! Do you think it would be possible to take some photos of her for us, with or without bandage? I've never seen a glider with amputated tail and it seems we have such little information about health and injuries with photos to accompany it that it would be a good idea to keep a little database with glider injury photos. :3
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/22/07 10:11 PM

Alia just informed me that Leilah has a scabbing on one shoulder and irritation with scabbing on the other shoulder. She was wondering if R-7 spray was a good substitute for collasate spray, as the R-7 spray is readily available and the collasate spray had to be ordered and might take up to two weeks to get here. Alia also wanted to know if she should remove the ecollar to prevent any further irritation to Leilah's shoulders, as Leilah wore the ecollar for about three weeks now. She just does not want Leilah to mess with her tail again.

Any advice would be much appreciated!


Jen
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/22/07 10:21 PM

I would take it off a couple hours at a time under DIRECT supervision, and see how she does. The fact there's still redness has me a little concerned. Does she have any painkiller left? And is the scabbiness being caused by the collar? If so, what condition is the moleskin in? If she can't do without it yet...a new collar or replacing that padding might be in order. If she can go without messing with it 24 hours she probably won't, but she'll still want to keep a close eye at least every 2-3 hours (edited) after that to make sure, and catch any damage before it gets out of hand, until it's completely healed. Is she still on antibiotics? or are those done? (the redness is why I'm asking-there really shouldn't be any two weeks out)
Posted By: Xfilefan

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/22/07 10:24 PM

And I don't know about the sprays. For the tail...or the scabbing? I've not used a spray so I don't have a clue on that. Can she reach what's on her shoulders?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/22/07 11:25 PM

Hey everyone. SO leilah's tail is still a little red in one area. I'm assuming there is some sort of glue or protectant on the tail because it has been black since she came home. But not black like dead skin. Just a black kind of protectant over it. The red area is where the protectant has worn off. The spray would be for her tail so she wouldnt get to it if the ecollar was off. It doesn't hurt her anymore, but does that mean she wouldn't try to play with it? She has been off antibiotics for awhile now. They were only for 7 days as with the pain killers. The shoulders are scabbed. I don't know if it is from her grabbing at the ecollar and scratching herself or from the actual ecollar. They are scabbed over so they are healing. SO I dont know what to do. Try taking it off? I'm afraid of being able to put it back on. I don't have another ecollar (Pix Trix was nice enough to send me this one) as the first one I made wouldn't stay. And I havn't been able to find the molefoam in the stores anywhere. Only mole skin which isnt thick enough.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/23/07 08:44 PM

Sorry Sabarika, I just saw that you had replied to the post. I have a few pictures of before and after that I will put up. I will have to find a way of doing. I had a picture of leilah's tail up on Photobucket and they took it down saying it was explicit lol. I'm guessing they thought it was something perveted or IDK. I had to laugh though lol. But, when I get home from work, I will work on posting some before and after photos.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/24/07 02:17 AM

Well Leilah is loving being free. As of now she hasn't touched her tail. I gave her a bath with a wash cloth. She loved it. Now she is sitting there eating a mealie. I'm hoping she will continue on like this because then I can leave the ecollar off right? If she doesn't touch the tail at all? Check on her every couple hours?
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/24/07 02:22 AM

Sounds good to me! hug2 laugh
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/24/07 02:00 PM

YAY!!! I am so glad to hear that Leilah is finally free of that ecollar! She has been through so much! So have you and Kim! Poor Dolly was without her sister all those weeks!

Has Leilah left her tail alone all night? I hope so!


Jen
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/24/07 03:37 PM

Ok so we left Leilah out of her cone for the whole night. We took turns waking up every two hours to check on her. Tail looks the same. She had licked it earlier when I was out with her, but only for a second. I wonder if she didnt like the taste of the protectant they put on. She made a funny face and then continued cleaning the upper portions of her tail. So every time we woke up she was playing on her wheel. Before I went to sleep I switched her cage around so it was vertical. Hung up all her toys and put the wheel in there for her. I even heard some barking in the middle of the night. Not sure if it was dolly saying "hey give me my wheel back!!" or leilah saying "haha". You guys should have seen her face when i gave her a pouch. She ran straight for it! I think she missed that more than anything. Ohh and she looved eating some cherries and veggies. She went to town. Poor little girl. So if she left it alone all night is it safe to say she will continue? As long as no stress? I'm hoping, praying and keeping my fingers crossed! No more hand feeding!!
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/24/07 04:07 PM

It really sounds like everything is going great! Isn't that an awesome feeling when you let them get back to normal? mlove They're like, "Really, mom?? I can finally go back? Are you sure? Oh yea!!! This is great!" And it makes you so happy to see them so happy (and their family/friends when they're reunited!)

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/25/07 07:36 PM

Well went and bought the collasate ointment. (The only vet to have any collasate products only had the ointment!) From what I understand it works the same. I'm hoping it works and she wont bother it (she licked off a lil of the protectant). It sure smells terrible, so I wouldnt want to lick it! *fingers crossed!*
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/26/07 03:08 PM

Well Leilah is back in the ecollar. She licked off all the ointment, so that was the last straw. She's not happy about it by any means but it had to be done.
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 10/26/07 03:44 PM

Awww, poor baby! I sure hope she heals up quick so she can be rid of that horrible collar for good! hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/13/07 06:29 PM

Ok, so I haven't updated for awhile. Leilah had more of her tail amputated yesterday. The vet made up excuses as to why it never healed. All seemed like lies to me, but I was to tired to argue with him. I did make sure to stress them leaving her ecollar on or at least putting it back on. Last time they told me she wouldn't need it, i left it with her anyways, but they never used it. Her tail looks completely different from the last time they did it, so I have no idea what they did the first time. Hopefully this time her tail will heal right and she can get out of that prison she is in (her ecollar). 7 weeks is way to long for any animal to have to wear and ecollar!!

Posted By: LSardou

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/13/07 06:46 PM

hug2 I am so sorry to hear that poor little Leilah is still having such a difficult time with her tail.
Did the vet tell you why it wasn't healing from the first amputation?
I wish this was over for her too...I will keep her in my prayers. Thank you for the update, and give her extra hugs and kisses.... hug2
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/13/07 07:18 PM

He said there were a couple possible explanations. First she could have gotten to it sometime after surgery. Which makes me mad since I left an ecollar for that purpose. This would explain why is was all black and hard when we got her. She could have opened the wound and that got on the rest of the tail. IDK. Then he said something about veins and if that was damaged further up than they expected it would have died. Both of these options seemed like there fault, but I seriously wasn't in the mood to argue. I just stayed longer to make sure it looked right afterwards. And I got him to use the ecollar this time. Honestly the tail looks COMPLETELY different this time then it did the first time. I made sure to look at it while they were still there!!
Posted By: kthiessen

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/14/07 03:44 AM

So sorry she is having to go through this. Hopefully it will heal right up this time.
Posted By: pappy1264

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/14/07 01:33 PM

Awww, poor baby. Praying this will be it and she can heal and get back to being a glider. Please keep us posted.
Posted By: Usha77

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/15/07 01:50 AM

hug2 hug2 to you all! I hope she gets better fast! Poor thing!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/15/07 02:33 AM

Thanks everyone! It appears to be healing. I woke up at 3:30am to feed her again and she had managed to get the ecollar off. The vet must have put it on too loose. Dummy me, I should have checked it. She had it on for 40hours after the vet, so who knows. Luckily she doesn't appear to have touched it. It's not open, not bloody so that is a good thing. I'll keep an eye on it, but it appears to be doing just fine!!

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/15/07 03:35 PM

Oh good! I am glad to hear that Leilah is doing good and that the amputation looks good! It should have been done the right way the first time! Poor Leilah! She is SPECIAL! mlove


Jen
Posted By: SugarLove

Re: Tail Amputation - 11/15/07 07:13 PM

whew....I"m so glad to hear that Leilah is doing well. Please do keep us updated!
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