GliderCENTRAL

Reinventing the Wheel

Posted By: gliderdad79

Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 07:23 PM

For some time now I have been wanting to make this post and lately after looking around I decided I would. In the near future I will be making what I think will be a very cool post that will show the progress of GliderCENTRAL though the years. It will show how and why GliderCENTRAL was started and how it used to be. Basically, it was started as a central hub, linking to other sites while having the links database and other resources.

I see more and more sites trying to reinvent the wheel, and I am ok with that, but in some areas I wonder why. I know some sites have started because the rules here at GliderCENTRAL are too restrictive. That is perfectly fine, and some of them have proven to be valuable to the community in various ways, and I am happy to see that.

We have sat back for a while now watching to see if the community can get things together and work everything out. That isn't happening and is getting worse. Most care more about popularity than the glider. We have found the sites we can work with, and we wish to include more. Examples: The Millbreeder Project(specializes in millbreeders) TGI(specializes in Education and Outreach) VCA (glider vet assistance) just to name a few. These are sites that are not reinventing the wheel, but dedicated to new avenues that can be brought to the community.

What really does bother me is in the area of the links and resources that have been in place for years. We have had a links database since 1999. We have had vets, diets, breeders etc. It is growing everyday. The thing about our links system is, it is a database. You fill out a few fields and its there, and the owner can edit it whenever they want. You can leave reviews to help future viewers with your experiences with a vendor, breeder, vet, etc. It is not like some of the sites I have seen, were they copy the info and add it to their site using html coding. Its not like GC takes the credit for the links. Every link gets linked to the original source to obtain the information!!! All we are doing and have been doing for 10 years is hosting a central place to find the information.

What bothers me about this is a few things. The copying of information instead of linking to the original source! Why can this or is this a problem? Imagine 100 sites all doing their own vet database lets say. Maybe only 20 of those sites are updated and the other 80 aren't. Someone does a search on the internet for sugar glider vets. They may get to the 80 that are not updated. Why is it so hard for the community to see the benefits of having a central place for sugar glider vets, breeder, etc. By having a central place for vets and linking to it, the information would be updated much more. People searching will get the updated data and as a whole would in turn prove to help the community and future glider owners.

It does not help one bit if we have a zillion places for info like this. By having too many, info on most get outdated, not kept up with due to time it takes to pluck through html coding. I will not name sites, but I have seen blatant copying from us instead of linking to an already developed database, an already developed place with resources because of trying to reinvent the wheel. I have two diets that I added by request by the person(s) who wrote them. I was the only person asked, the first person to put them on the web. The best way to get those diets out was to place them in the links database. Here is the thing, not once was I ever asked to copy that info. But instead of certain sites linking to the links database, they copied off one of my sites and add it to their own.

This goes on and on and not just with vets, but diets, our name database, and so forth. If we really want to get this community back the way it was years ago, and be here for one reason, the gliders, and providing accurate, up to date information, and new information we need to work together, not against each other.

I am not saying and will never say, one site has to be the biggest and best. Just about every site is beneficial in many ways. What I am asking is why try to reinvent something over and over that is already in place and is not only fully functional but easier to use and has many features?

This community as a whole will never get stronger until we all put our petty differences aside and get back to why we all came to the internet for research and choose to stay to educate and that is the gliders.

We need to unite or things will continue to spiral further and further from what the community was started for 10 years ago. A community is many sites, not just one, owners both state side and abroad. A community works together and leans on each others resources, not copy and try to reinvent.

Am I the only one who sees this happening? Many have stated I should post more, and I said I would. I will always speak the truth and the truth is, things are getting worse.

What will it take to stop and pull together and stop working against each other, or groups working against each other?

Can we change to better the gliders we have now and the future of sugar glider education?
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 08:04 PM

Eddie I think many of us are working together, although I do feel we do have some "bad apples" I don't think we will ever be able to rid ourselves of them.

Many of us all have strong personalities and lets face it, we cant all be g rated. We NEED other places to go so we can be ourselves. I know I personally am on three different sugar glider forums and I use all three of them very differently. I dont think this "separates" us or makes us work against each other.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 08:27 PM

Yes i know and as I said, that is ok and great. I stated many sites have started because of restrictions here and have proven to be valuable.

I am talking more about resources already in place such as the links database. A place thats been here for 10 years!! Instead of everyone using it to enter links, add vets, link to organizations they are just copying the info and replicating it on their site.

No, there will always be bad apples, but if we work together in collecting data and linking to the resources from one place we will get the information and education out faster.
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 08:41 PM

clap
I believe I see exactly where Eddie is coming from. I too, like Valorie, belong to several differnt glider forums. And use each one VERY differently as well. What I get out of this post, is that Eddie does NOT have a problem with the existence of these other forums. It's the database info he is referring to.
Quote:
I am not saying and will never say, one site has to be the biggest and best. Just about every site is beneficial in many ways. What I am asking is why try to reinvent something over and over that is already in place and is not only fully functional but easier to use and has many features?

This sentence in red is referring to the re-inventing of the database, not in re-inventing forums thumb ...

Quote:
The copying of information instead of linking to the original source!

YES! If you have your own database, link to the sources, instead of storing the info on your site. Makes sense...

Quote:
A community is many sites, not just one, owners both state side and abroad. A community works together and leans on each others resources, not copy and try to reinvent.


I quoted these exerpts that I think explain how we can all work together, and still happily exist apart. I think they are saying that we can all (different glider forums)have our own places, without re-inventing the core information database! Just link to what is already there smile Hey Eddie, how about creating a simple link, on this thread, for other boards to use as a LINK instead of a cut & paste of info? For those that don't want to create a new database, but share the wealth of knowledge already put together here? thumb

Just my humble opinion, working together with Eddie's comments.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 08:58 PM

Very well said, Eddie, and long over due.

This is a conversation you and I have had many times for several years now. We have watched and waited hoping to see the glider community come together as we saw some boards that seemed to pull us apart disappear, but that hasn't happened.

The links, as you have pointed out, is a perfect example. It is rare we deny anyone permission to link to information on GliderCENTRAL for their site. The hard work has been done, and we do our best to keep it current. Why not take advantage of that by linking rather than simply copying information that will not stay current?

There are so many glider related issues, they simply cannot be addressed in one place. It is just too overwhelming.



Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 09:33 PM

Oh I see.

Originally Posted By: SariYappa
Hey Eddie, how about creating a simple link, on this thread, for other boards to use as a LINK instead of a cut & paste of info? For those that don't want to create a new database, but share the wealth of knowledge already put together here? thumb


I like this idea!
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 09:41 PM

Its not to link to this post. What I am talking about is things like diets, vets, etc. Click on these words and it goes right to the database. Instead of everyone posting the diet on there page. Link to the diet page, link to the vet database.
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
Its not to link to this post. What I am talking about is things like diets, vets, etc. Click on these words and it goes right to the database. Instead of everyone posting the diet on there page. Link to the diet page, link to the vet database.

Eddie, Thanks for the clarification. I didn't mean to link to this thread tounge
Is there not a database index page, where you begin to link to all this wonderful information?
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:14 PM

Yes there is. We have it in the header under links button. and can be found here

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/.

Each word like diet is linked to the diet section in the database found here

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Sugar_Glider_Care___Information/Diet___Nutrition/index.html

vets can be found here

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Sugar_Glider_Vet_Database/index.html

breeders here

http://www.glidercentral.net/links/pages/Sugar_Glider_Breeder_Database/index.html

And many many more. Look at the http://www.millbreederproject.com/website. The have a vet button and it links to this vet database and a button for diets and it links to this diet database. That what I am talking about on this aspect
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:19 PM

I will certainly do more linking.. I think some, myself included are always a little paranoid over GC rules.. What is allowed, not allowed etc.. and honestly I wasnt sure how you felt about linking diet to other boards.. Everyone knows I am one of the owners on SGN.. I did our diet section and trust me.. I would have much rather did link to the database here.. but I thought I would get in trouble LOL... I should have asked though, that's my fault.. good to know for the future!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:23 PM

Quote:
Am I the only one who sees this happening? Many have stated I should post more, and I said I would. I will always speak the truth and the truth is, things are getting worse.


You are not alone Eddie!
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:40 PM

Thank you Kris, the link was approved. It never hurts to ask, what hurts more is not asking and not getting the info out.

We approve each link and review and if we see a problem, we will contact the person who submitted the link so it can be corrected wink

Really, we don't bite!! lol
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:44 PM

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
Really, we don't bite!! lol


We heard that roflmao
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:50 PM

Well, I know I don't but I cannot and will not speak for another. So with that being said I'd watch out for Karen blush
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 10:52 PM

Well I know that NOW!! Thanks Eddie.. took your advise and got it in! Also doing some rating! That section really needs to be used more.. it's wonderful!
Posted By: SariYappa

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 11:13 PM

Isn't it Kris? I didn't even know it EXISTED until a few weeks ago a GC member complained it wasn't updated... and NOW look! roflmao
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 11:22 PM

Well, yes - sometimes you DO bite!

I'm with Kris! Although the GC rules are spelled out, and I am frequently given the opportunity to re-read them (especially when I violate one!) the rules are subject to interpretation. On more than one occasion, I've been sent a "you violated Rule X" notice, which always includes a copy of said rule, and I reread the rule, and don't really "see" the violation.

I don't argue. I accept that I've gotten my hand slapped, frequently for reasons I don't understand. And then I get the "if you do it one more time you'll be banned" message. And I accept that.

However, since I'm rarely sure of how I violate Rules, my response to being "warned" is to post less and less. On more than one occasion, when I've asked exactly how I violated a rule - for my own clarification - I'm told to stop questioning (often seen as arguing), and just accept it.

Having said all that - and getting back to what Kris said - my own experience is that it is best NOT to ask. And it is further best to just assume that anything remotely out of the ordinary daily operations is NOT allowed. It wouldn't occur to me, should I have a site, to link, and it certainly wouldn't occur to me to ask if I could.

Just saying ... you want to create an atmosphere of unity and cooperation, but much of what *I* have seen directly opposes such an atmosphere.

Ok - my hand is out. Slap away.
Posted By: kitsune

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 11:37 PM

I have to agree with Alden...I have been here for 6 years, since 2003, and most of my friends use me as a glider encyclopedia, I feel like I have a lot to offer in the way of good information and tidbits of many things that have been lost to time and the cycling of old members for new, but I don't feel comfortable posting very often anymore because I often am told I have broken a rule that doesn't even seem to fit the violation. I have to admit, I have stopped even reading warnings because I already know it won't make any sense to me. Maybe it's just me?

I understand catering to new members, but it seems like it's gotten to the point where new members are the focus of this place and old members just aren't allowed the respect they deserve, so they leave. A forum like this has great potential, but lately I have seen much of that potential go to waste because of the lack of experienced members that can deal with the environment created. My PMs have been suspended for a year now, how is that benefiting anyone? I've never been known to harass anyone via PM.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 11:52 PM

This needs to be brought back on topic.

Kitsune, I will only say that you know full well your PMs were not suspended because you were harassing anyone. If you wish to take this matter to PM with me and Eddie, we are available.
Posted By: kitsune

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/18/09 11:55 PM

I'd love to Karen, but you'll have to PM me first. I have been told repeatedly that it's pointless to even talk to you about it though.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 12:01 AM

I'm sorry - I thought that the topic was uniting the glider community, and why can't we all work together.

Eddie asked why no one asked him - and I answered from my point of view as to why.

If that isn't the topic, perhaps it is like the Rules, and I require further clarification?
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 12:02 AM

Are you asking that other forums link from their site to the links area here on GC? Or are you asking that they have the links available with a word of interest like GC has?
Posted By: gliderma

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 12:29 AM

I have a web site that I feel is very informative. I have a page with many links, including to GC that I believe others would find helpful. I have a page about HPW because that is what I use and I have included safe fruits & veggies as well to make it easy for people to see at a glance. I did not copy from anyone as it is the diet that was given to me when I first got gliders. My site is not a forum, but an informational site that also has toy making supplies and occassional joey's available. I too, did not realize I could have linked directly to the GC data. And I have to say I have had my hand slapped a few times myself for reasons I don't fully understand, but it's not my board and I didn't make the rules, which I sometimes have a hard time adhering too! But I will still be here, trying!thumb
Posted By: heidi

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 12:45 AM

i only belong to gc i feel it is verry helpfull and everyone always ancers my questions without haveing me link or click here and there and yoe im new i dont even have my gliders yet but ive found everyone verry friendly and helpfull please just keep up the good worl i do love this forum
Posted By: hushpuppy

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 02:59 AM

I've got to say that I disagree with some of what has been said here. Iíve had my hand tapped a few times when I accidently posted something that was against the rules. It was just a reminder, of the rules not a death sentence.

Iíve privately thanked KarenE for the wonderful job they do here. But it is time that I stepped up to the plate and said it publicly. I for one appreciate the fact that GC has good solid rules and that they are applied equally to everyone. This is a good, clean, well run board, and the GC staff handles problems professionally and they do what is in the best interest of the gliders. I canít ask for much more than that.

The few times that Iíve needed anything, the staff has been there for me and theyíve gone above and beyond to help.

I completely understand what Eddie is saying. Iím sure that the folks here feel just like the rest of us do when we work very hard to on something and someone takes that and uses it like it was their own. They simply want people to respect their work and use a link instead on pasting into their own forum. That is the polite thing to do.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 03:27 AM

I believe that some "newbies" either don't know they CAN link to GC's data bases, don't know HOW to link them OR they want their own site to be THE site. It seems like they want to appear as the all knowing even if that means copying info instead of linking to it or RESEARCHING and posting their OWN conclusions. (college days training won't let me just copy, you'd get expelled for that)

There are some boards that started off with good and appropriate intentions but have hurt the community much more than they ever helped. I don't go to other boards anymore at all because of the sharks and the back biting done in the name of "free speach". I'm still on GC because that sort of thing is not tolerated on here. (99.9% of the time) But like Alden, I'm often confused as to how the rules are intrepeted and I hesitate to post anymore.

Even though you (Eddie and Karen) don't see it, things have really changed here on GC even since the time when I was a mod. The atmosphere is very different than it was when I joined. The "old timers" (the ones that were considered "old timers" when I joined) are mostly gone now or not posting. New people want to argue everything if they don't get the answers they want (ok so that isn't really different) but when the (newer) "old timers" stand their ground, they get their hands slapped for not being friendly enough. It gets frustraiting and it is easier not to post.

I'm still a GC supporter and still believe this is THE best place for information. I'm just concerned that the "old timers" will go away and their knowledge will be lost to us all.
Posted By: queenduck

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 03:48 AM

Quote:
I'm still a GC supporter and still believe this is THE best place for information. I'm just concerned that the "old timers" will go away and their knowledge will be lost to us all.


I agree that GC is the best place for information. I wouldn't ever try to duplicate it all. I know on SGN we only added diet information because Linda offered to do it, and then it was later reorganized just for flow. We added limited board member vet information at someone's request. When I have time, or Kris or Karin can do it, we can add a link to GC links to those areas.

SGN isn't an education and information board, not even a board for newbies wanting to research. It's just a place we can hang and get to know eachother with less restriction. I would hate to think anyone thought it was a place for division. That is not my intention or goal.

I think each board serves its own purpose.

I am an old timer and never plan to leave GC. I rarely offer advise here anymore because usually 2 to 3 others have offered the same advice before I got to the post. This was my first home and without it I would have rehomed my gliders years ago. I have learned so much here. There are lots of us old timers that will never leave.
Posted By: Karin

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 06:05 AM

I honestly think the only comparison to GliderCENTRAL could be Glider Gossip as far as a board to go to for beginner information. Most find these two boards first, and if you ask me, an old timer read , there is no comparison. JMO Most other boards link GC to a newer member seeking help, should they find their way over and need diet, bonding, etc. help. At least that has been my observation for ages.

Old timers, as was referred to previously, who have truly stayed the course with the glider as their foremost priority, are still active here. There is new info to be learned every day. It's only those who have pursued other agendas that find themselves turned off by so-called *other* boards. GC is pretty cut and dried with their rules, all you have to do is follow them smile .

Honestly Teresa, I was a Mod long before you, and just recently stepped down, and the only difference I see is there are ALOT more members with different ideas and ALOT more gliders being sold ie: the PPP style, who confuse with so much conflicting info. I love it the newer members ask questions which lead to other avenues not yet explored. I think it's great! You will always have those who seek to be recognized, but that is just life dunno . It's not hard to figure out who is in it for a purpose other than the glider.

GC will always be the go-to place for those just venturing to the community, and even those old timers who have new pertinent info to share. I guess I am not sure what you are asking? (I guess that is the right word) Eddie? (stop giggling at me)

Karin
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 10:24 AM

gee and i thought this was about a new exercise wheel...
Posted By: anjill_tree

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 11:07 AM

THats where the DOMAIN PROJECT can help too.
Bourbon has a dream, and some others and I have put up some money to purchase Websites. These websites will link to each other. WE ALL AT SOME POINT LINK TOGETHER
No matter where the newbie goes, it will send them to the right information. ( not PPP information )

You all know, we have differences, but, we all bring something to glider community. We are a Glider family already. And families don't always agree, right? But, we still care for them, and help them.

So, example, On domain project, will have the link to GC's informationand take them there. The whole glider community can be a part of this. WE CAN ALL LINK TOGETHER.

I hope I said that right.
Posted By: hpyhwn2003

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 11:30 AM

On my websites link page I have a link to GC. I work hard on my site but I know there is no way to gather the wealth of great information that is here on GC. So I included a link to that information.

Originally Posted By: anjill_tree
THats where the DOMAIN PROJECT can help too.
Bourbon has a dream, and some others and I have put up some money to purchase Websites. These websites will link to each other. WE ALL AT SOME POINT LINK TOGETHER


Contact me when you're ready. I'd love to be in on this linking.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 12:14 PM

We (Paula and I) include links to the GC site on our sites, too- on the S.P.I.N. site as well as our personal sites.

We (Paula and I) also both belong to 3 different boards- and how we do what we do on each one is determined by which board it is...

Personally, I come to GC to visit "old friends" who only post here... to be a part of helping & welcoming new comers to the gldier community... to share news with the community, and to learn more myself. One of the other boards I belong to is my more "personal" outlet- a place where I can still learn and educate, but is mostly about commraderie and fellowship because the rules there are less restrictive than on GC and let's face it- I am rather outspoken and do tend to have a bit of an abrasive personality sometimes wink . The third I do not frequesnt much mostly due to time constraints but in an effort to be a part of things over there I do try to post from time to time especially if it is to share information.

The S.P.I.N. site was designed with glider education in mind. Because ours is an educational site, it is necessary for us to include a LOT of information there- treat recipes and the HPW diet recipe are there... but we alos have links (with permission) to other people's sites (for instance, Iowa Misty's fruit and veggie cubes and diet making videos and her Ca:P chart or Candy Otte's blended diet with comparision charts). We also include links to breeders, to the GC vet database AND a national database of general veterinarians in case a glider knowledgable vet near you cannot be found and you have an emergency. We have vendor links, as well, and links to other forums and (with permission re: the pictures) a whole page deicated to the decriptions of gldier color variations with photographs.

The thing about our links page is that there usually is NO description of the site or preview of it- simply a name in a list under a heading... so the lists are QUITE lengthy and I do keep meaning to find time to update the page (something i might try to do in the next 3 weeks if I find some time to myself ") )

We did not create S.P.I.N. to "replace" GC but rather to work along side it. We do not have a forum ourselves... and while I understand what Eddie is saying about the need for a "centralized glider website" where links, forums, and information are all available, it is simply not feasible to attempt to be the "only one" because people are going to create sites and they are going to fill those sites with information...

To be the centralized hub of information that I think Eddie would like for GC to be, it would be necessary to create a worldwide ban on creating "external" websites including glider information... forcing everyone in the world to come here FIRST... and ONLY through GC would people be able to get to any other glider informational sites (and GC would have to weild the power to decide which sites to allow the populace to visit... so if GC did not approve you, your site could not exist). While this actually COULD be rather helpful to newbies, since they would get the information they need without having to wade through multiple other sites and forums that may or may not contain "accepted" information or "reputable" links or "current" anything... it would also be restricive to the populace as a whole since people seem to prefer to have CHOICE about what information to get and where to get it.

The other forums NEED to exist so that those who do not fit in here or prefer to follow "different" rules still have a place to "go"... sites like TGI, SPIN, and The MBP all serve a purpose that can work WITH all of the forums (including GC) and the smaller sites and breeder sites belonging to members of GC, in my opinion, actually HELP more than HURT. Maybe they do not all carry the LATEST info or have MORE or LESS links than some might feel necessary... some might even feel that these small sites "hurt" GC because they exist- but IMO, if places like Perfect Pocket Pets are going to exist and flood the web with their version of glider care and knowledge, then the more sites in existance that go AGAINST that kind of information the better off we are... because doing a search and finding GC has been a lucky break for a LOT of people... if they missed the GC link or GC was NOT the first to pop up on a search engine- would you rather those who need help find a PPP site... or a site that may have links to or at least may have gotten it's info from GC?

I htink Eddie's vision is a good one... but since most people view GC as a FORUM not an INFORMATIONAL site per se, I think the LINKS button often gets over looked... not to mention that the few times I used it as a newbie I found out of date information, sparse information, or no information at all about what I needed.

I make 2 suggestions:

1) If you want more new people to come here, create more tags to the site... I wonder how many new people could be helped if a specifice tag existed to take people searching for "sugar glider help" or "sugar glider dying" could generate a link straight to GC's vet database?

2) Maybe GC needs a links research department... not all good gldier sites realize that to get their link onto GC they need to register in that section and ask for it to be there... maybe if GC ad a team whose purpose was to reaseach other gldier sites, research veterinarians across the country for gldier knowledge, etc... then that team could contact the people whose sites or info GC wants to post or link to instead of wating for them to come to GC and offer it... then the links database would stay more current and up-to-date and offer MORE information making GC an even BETTER place to find information...

Then some other sites would be more willing to minkt o GC links instead of having their own choice of links listed on their pages.
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 04:38 PM

I am not really sure I understand what is the issue here.
Be patient with me, I sometimes dont get all the computer lingo.
It semms it starts out with Eddie being upset over the website, that we are not putting differences aside and pulling together. Then after that I read numerous responces about people feeling like they have been slapped. and other people talking about linking things, and now my brain is totally fried after reading all this and I forget what the original point is.

So I want to add my 2 cents worth. First of all I myself have felt "slapped" here and got my feelings hurt and stopped posting for a very short time and visited another forum regularly for awhile. But when someone there misunderstood something I said, after NUMEROUS explanations, I realized that all those times I felt offended that perhaps I was the one misunderstanding, and those people were NOT being "slap happy". I realized that I need to put on a thicker skin and even if someone does "slap" me, now I just ignore it and continue. There is always something to learn here!

All the moderators here have been VERY kind and supportive to me, and encourage me to stick around even when I felt like I didnt want to.

The problem with open forums like this one is people will always disagree. But that is ok. That is the point! I dont always want people to agree with me. If there is a flaw to my thinking I want people to speak up, that way we can all learn by seeing opposing views. It is also possible that there is more than one view that is correct as well, and how else will we learn this except by listening to others.
On my websites I purposefully gave only basic info and encourage people to research, and gave them a few links to get started (including one to here)as well as an open invitation to email me with more questions.

This is a good site! but I am sure some people visiting here dont understand how to use it to its full potential. Heck it took me 2 days to figure out how to put up a new topic! I have never visited a forum before and had NO clue, and couldnt find any concise instructions to help. I finally had to have a friend over to help. Dont laugh at me, I am quite intelligent, but if you know NOTHING about a certain thing, it can be very frustrating, and to those that know, it seems so simple. One of my friend still cannot program her cell phone, and how many of you know how to work on copy machines? Do you get the illustration? Instruction may need to be added here to help those that are not computer/forum savy.

what was the point anyway? Mill breeders were mentioned. I had a great idea to get the state of NJ involved to help out with PPP, and how many offered to help? everyone wants to speak up and complain about them, but how many are actually DOING something about it?

but I digress.....what were we talking about?

to reiterate---I think this is a great place to start researching gliders, but even new people have to understand that not everything read on here is written in stone, it is all based on people's PERSPECTIVES.

so now, group hug everyone!
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 04:59 PM

Originally Posted By: BabyLoveGliders
Well I know that NOW!! Thanks Eddie.. took your advise and got it in! Also doing some rating! That section really needs to be used more.. it's wonderful!


Thank you Kris, yes it needs to be used more. There are a lot of great features in there and can add more.
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Well, yes - sometimes you DO bite!

I'm with Kris! Although the GC rules are spelled out, and I am frequently given the opportunity to re-read them (especially when I violate one!) the rules are subject to interpretation. On more than one occasion, I've been sent a "you violated Rule X" notice, which always includes a copy of said rule, and I reread the rule, and don't really "see" the violation.

I don't argue. I accept that I've gotten my hand slapped, frequently for reasons I don't understand. And then I get the "if you do it one more time you'll be banned" message. And I accept that.

However, since I'm rarely sure of how I violate Rules, my response to being "warned" is to post less and less. On more than one occasion, when I've asked exactly how I violated a rule - for my own clarification - I'm told to stop questioning (often seen as arguing), and just accept it.

Having said all that - and getting back to what Kris said - my own experience is that it is best NOT to ask. And it is further best to just assume that anything remotely out of the ordinary daily operations is NOT allowed. It wouldn't occur to me, should I have a site, to link, and it certainly wouldn't occur to me to ask if I could.

Just saying ... you want to create an atmosphere of unity and cooperation, but much of what *I* have seen directly opposes such an atmosphere.

Ok - my hand is out. Slap away.


Please, if you do not see or understand why you were sent the violation, by all means ask Karen or myself and we will do our best to explain it. Just ask us nicely and we will talk about it with you.

A violation is just a violation. Its not a ban sentance so no one should be offended if they get one. 10 years ago there was over 15+ rules. We are well below that and still keep removing some as time changes.

The only rule that will not ever change is the ones about attacking others or bringing personal issues.

Quote:
Just saying ... you want to create an atmosphere of unity and cooperation, but much of what *I* have seen directly opposes such an atmosphere.


The rules are real easy, dont bash, harass, or disrespect others. If one needs to do those things then the person can never have unity with anyone but others who like to do the same. There is no reason to bash, harass someone on a glider forum that is trying to educate. Kill them with kindness. Many people come to us and say they are scared to post, not because of the rules, but the fear that certain members and or groups of members will attack them. There is no reason to attack, trust me I want to beat my head against the wall when people wont listen too and sometimes wish the rules werent here too.
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
I'm sorry - I thought that the topic was uniting the glider community, and why can't we all work together.

Eddie asked why no one asked him - and I answered from my point of view as to why.

If that isn't the topic, perhaps it is like the Rules, and I require further clarification?


No its not about that, this post is more about using existing resources rather than copying and trying to start whats already in place. We need to start uniting there first and I will have a future post about uniting the community in other ways.

Originally Posted By: hushpuppy
I've got to say that I disagree with some of what has been said here. Iíve had my hand tapped a few times when I accidently posted something that was against the rules. It was just a reminder, of the rules not a death sentence.


Thank you Anita, most take personal offense when they receive a pm. All it is is to let them know and explain what was done so it doesn't happen again.


No one should be afraid to post at all. Many will pm myself or Karen if they feel their post may cross the line and ask us before they post if we would read it.

All we ask is for a friendly environment for everyone. There is no reason not be. No need to curse, bash, or yell at someone. This is as clear as it gets, I don't see how much clearer it can get. But I will address that in the near future as this is not the post to do it in, but wanted to address some concerns.

The only sites we will not link to is sites like perfect pocket pets. Many other forums have chosen to require you to login before you see the forums, we link to those too no matter what their rules are. When someone submits a link, the only reason we would not allow it is if it is soo bad in content that we wouldnt want our younger members brought there due to its content.

We do investigate some of the reviews left as they were soo horrible. After investigating most have proven to have never had contact with the site or person they left a review for and they only left that review because they don't like the site or person. That is few and far that it happens. No site or review is rejected unless there was no reason for it to be listed and as I said we always look to work with the person.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 05:03 PM

Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Are you asking that other forums link from their site to the links area here on GC? Or are you asking that they have the links available with a word of interest like GC has?


No I am not ever gona ask that other sites try to do the active linking like we are doing here. Just link to the links area.

It is very similar to the breeder registry people have tried to start. 95% feel there should be one registry so its easier to find lineage and so the info gets out, and stays accurate and up to date. This is what I am talking about. Not that GC gets any credit, it doesn't, it always links to the original resource.

GliderCENTRAL does not care about getting credit or anything. All we want is to get the education out there.
Posted By: finnessa

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 05:15 PM

Quote:
No one should be afraid to post at all. Many will pm myself or Karen if they feel their post may cross the line and ask us before they post if we would read it.



I recently had a PM chat with Karen along these lines. I wanted to make a thread asking a question and was concerned with how the outcome would be. I was encouraged to make the thread but decided not to because there is always bickering amongst individuals instead of helping! If more people spent more time here focused on JUST the gliders and not who back stabbed them,stalks them,dislikes their way ECT. more helping could be done! The forum should be treated the same as work... check you attitude and personal dislike for the individual at the door and put the gliders first!!!

I love GC this was my first home when looking for gliders! Without GC I still wouldn't have my babies! I found an amazing breeder through GC that I wouldn't have found other wise. I do frequent one or two other forums but 99% for chat and fun. Majority of my questions get posted here and I always read and post when I can help here!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 05:47 PM

Quote:
If more people spent more time here focused on JUST the gliders and not who back stabbed them,stalks them,dislikes their way ECT. more helping could be done!


I agree with you!! Unfortunately though... When people do try to think just about the gliders and pitch in to do some real good... others dont like the particular group you are helping and in the end it is the gliders that get hurt. Not sure how it will change, as it has gotten worse, much worse but like Gandhi said .. "be the change you wish to see" So here we are, still pressing on!
Posted By: finnessa

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/19/09 06:42 PM

Quote:
but like Gandhi said .. "be the change you wish to see"



If everyone took even 25% of their time to follow this belief we would see a great deal of change! If people simply took the time to think "sheesh will what I am about to say help this topic at hand?" A lot will realize they bring a lot more unnecessary comments to a thread that cause others to do the same!

It is one thing to get upset and misuse words over the concerns of helping the gliders,but to go on personal tirades about a single person on a help board is beyond uncalled for! When new people see these uncalled for attacks it makes them not want to ever post so that doesn't happen to them! A lot of these attacks I see are the "old timers" attacking "old timers" when they should be the ones setting an example!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/23/09 04:17 AM

Originally Posted By: kitsune
I understand catering to new members, but it seems like it's gotten to the point where new members are the focus of this place and old members just aren't allowed the respect they deserve, so they leave. A forum like this has great potential, but lately I have seen much of that potential go to waste because of the lack of experienced members that can deal with the environment created.


Kitsune: As a 'newbie' I for one look up to the experienced 'older' members of this blog. I may not be typical but I know I have a lot to learn from the 'experienced' members on this board. I also think that as a part of the sugar glider community, it's the duty and responsibility of older experienced members on this blog to help the newcomer and educate them and assist them with diet/nutrition, health, general care and avoidance of the mill breeders and their mis-information...Not for the sake of the member him or herslf, but for the general well-being of the animal(s) in their care. I understand what you are saying about the older members feel that they are not given the focus or attention they deserve, but I wouldn't say its a matter of respect. What type of respect are you speaking of? I see there are forums on GC that are not anyway related to glider care, I would guess they are for anyone and the older members too, who don't need to research feeding, diet, care, etc. that newbies need to...so inessence there are some items catering to older members (my opinion).

Remember, new members are the future of this community working in harmony with the older members.

Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/24/09 11:52 AM

The problem is, Matt, we get newbies here by the dozen and unfortunately, most of them just want justification and not education.

A lot of people come here and say things like... "I'm feeding this unapproved, pellet-only diet, is it okay?" or "I got these rescues off of Craigslist, what can I do to make them breed?" or "I keep my gliders in a tiny cage, is a bigger one really necessary because I don't have any money to even take them to the vet much less get a cage?" or "help me convince my mom to let me get a glider for a pet"

What happens many times is that the "old timers" or "respected members" offer help, guidance, and support. We tell these newbies the TRUTH... but many times (no, not EVERY TIME, but MANY times) these newbies want VALIDATION and not TRUTH... we tell them what they need to hear or what they need to do, and instead of "okay thatnks!" we see them asking the same question over and over and over because they are waiting for someone to com along who will give them the anser they WANT to hear.

For those of us wanting nothing more than to help gliders and devoting our time and energy into repeatedly aswering the same questions without complaint because we want these newbies to give their gliders the BEST lives possible... it is VERY frustrating and comes across as a "lack of respect" for the ones who are looking for validation rather than help to blow us off.

After a while, the "old timers" who deal with this every day begin to get a bit frustrated or jaded. We want so BADLY to help but we are so FRUSTRATED that we are not having what we feel is a "big enough impact" on the gldier community... some switch boards, some take a "board break", some give up, some stay and keep plodding on, and some stay but develop a rather cynical attitude.

So yes, there are threads that "cater primarily to older members"... but please consider that sometimes, even those threads can offer something to newbies who read them... even if it is nothing more than an "old timer" decribing a good day with their gliders or something new they learned or created and primarily sharing the info with other "old timers"... newbies can glean valuable information from those threads, too.

I realize that sometimes there are threads that seem primarily between the "old timers" and maybe some banter or bickering occurs- but even these serve a purpose... when I was new to the boards I actully felt MORE COMFORTABLE becoming a part of GC when I saw that there WERE "old timers" who knew each other well enough to bicker back and forth but still stay on the same boards together and that there wee "old timers" who CARED enough to be here as long as they had been to share insights and opinions and advice with newbies like I was back then.
Posted By: gliderma

Re: Reinventing the Wheel - 11/24/09 12:59 PM

The "old timers" are what kept me here, too! It is hard to see the newbie posts some times though, when you know you can't really tell them how wrong they for fear of scaring them away. I feel I am learning everyday here from someone and do post when I am absolutely sure of what I am saying and it is always for the good of the gliders!
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