GliderCENTRAL

Breeders: In it for the money?

Posted By: Suggiegramma

Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 08:53 PM

It really makes me mad when people say breeders are "in it for the money". If you breed gliders then you know we're not in it for the money! I'm sure there are a few breeders that actually can make a living doing this but I put everything I make and MORE back into my gliders. It's expensive to keep as many gliders as I have, but it's well worth it. I love my suggies dearly and they are MY PETS! I've invested over $50,000 to get my colored pets and it's nice that they occasionally have a baby I can sell to help recoup some of the money.

Breeders: Are you in it for the money?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 08:59 PM

Exactly! I've seen many people think by being a breeder they're making tons of money. Yes, they are making money but that money goes into breeding them. The money they're making makes them have these guys as pets ... so basically their expenses are paid for.
You may make some money but I don't know if it's enough to make a living off of? Maybe if you have over 200 breeders? dunno
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:07 PM

agree I understand completely - back in the 90's I raised birds - and when people use to try to get me to lower the price I became furious - mad Most breeders put so much time and money into their animals (no matter which kind) they can never recoop all that they've put into their (stock) wrong choice of words but the only word I can think of at this time dunno

Then I raised Grey Gliders and the same thing happened there - who do these people think stays up at night just to make sure all is okay in the glider room and who do these people think cries when something happens to one of their precious pets - need_hug

Sue
Owned By &
Mom To
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:11 PM

People just don't realize how expensive it really is to breed. They think breeders are making big money, and any breeder can tell you, it's just not the case. I guess if you had alot of colored gliders you might make a profit possibly.

Problem is that a lot of people do go into it for the money. Then they discover they are not making money and sell all their gliders, or don't take care of them. Sad.

I have never made any profit in the year or so that I have been breeding, I have however racked up a significant amount of debt :/
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:16 PM

Originally Posted By: SugareeErin
Problem is that a lot of people do go into it for the money. Then they discover they are not making money and sell all their gliders, or don't take care of them. Sad.


So true...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:17 PM

I have heard this comment all to much. Especially the newbies. How can anyone make money breeding is beyond me. Unless you have a large breeding program. Our money comes from our two full time jobs. We make some money off our joey sales which goes back into food/supplies.

Considering many of the expenses; vet, food, caging, material, supplies, and other expenses that come up that can drain money. If the money I get can help maintain my gliders, ferrets, chinchillas, or kinkajous, than I'm doing okay. Our animals pretty much eat better than we do.

So I guess another question is; why do people breed? Not too many people are giving their joeys away for free.. so the breeder knows that they expect some money to at least maintain an excellent breeding program. Not too many people I know make a lot of money breeding animals because if done right everything your pretty much making is going back into the breeding program.

Why do people breed? Is it for the joy of having and breeding any animal? Or is it because after working with rescues and seeing the conditions of animals sold in many pet stores? Pet stores that when you ask them about diet or care information you get "I dunno." This is not to say all stores are bad, but there are quite a few in our area that are really bad. One has been hit by USDA, SPCA/Humane Society. Oddly, nothing happens to them.

So, I think everyone has different reasons for breeding animals.

Chad
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Suggiegramma
Originally Posted By: SugareeErin
Problem is that a lot of people do go into it for the money. Then they discover they are not making money and sell all their gliders, or don't take care of them. Sad.


So true...


agree It's just so sad! frown

Chad, that was very informative! I agree 100%

Also breeders don't want to give them away for free because I at least feel that you should pay for it. Because if a newbie comes on here and sees a glider for free they may buy it without researching... which leaves a glider at a loss.
All the breeders, at least I hope are in it for the gliders sake, not theirs.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:24 PM

Ok well here is MY take. Personally when I bought my first colored breeding pair it was because I was simply fasinated by lion coloring. I wanted to have two and breed for the color. The pure reason WHY I breed is to further the lines, and produce BEAUTIFUL sweet babies. I've bought two of my breeding cages with absolutly no intention of selling any of the joeys but to produce joeys to go in the next step of my breeding program. As of today every adopt fee I have recieved has gone into one more new cage or new stealths/ toys. My fiance will tell anyone that he has yet to see a single cent out of the adopt fee's go into "our" combined finances. But someday its my great hope my gliders will be too flippin spoiled there is nothing left to buy and or vet fund will be full again.

However. What about the much larger breeders. I won't name any names but there are key breeders in the glider community that to have 10+ joeys available is common at any given time. Are THEY in it for money ?
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:29 PM

In it for the money? how is that possible lmao... I havent made even a fraction back.. because I have their food their cages toys pouches and all that other good stuff....
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:29 PM

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
But someday its my great hope my gliders will be too flippin spoiled there is nothing left to buy and or vet fund will be full again.


Ok I hope people don't take this to mean I am in it for the money. I just mean that it would be nice to not worry about needing to buy these things some day.
Posted By: MatchMakerMagic

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:35 PM

While I cannot say that you can or can't make money off of breeding from experience. I can say from observations that alot of folks get into breeding to begin with because they THINK they will make money (and not just the glider world).

But I know that there MUST be money made or the likes of PPP would not be around. There would not be glider breeders that ONLY breed gliders as their source of income. People/Companies like this are making profit not just breaking even or going into debt.

Unfortunately I think this style of breeding often means large numbers of gliders (mass producing) and awful living conditions. frown Just as with any other type of mill situation.

Though on the other hand, if a person only had one pair of gliders and they were a color in high demand, I think then one *might* actually turn a profit. With most breeders though I dont think this is the case.
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:36 PM

I currently only have one breeding pair out of six cages of gliders. I don't break even let alone turn a profit. I'm going to be introducing a new pair soon and they will be breeding. That will put me at two breeding pairs total. The rest of my gliders are non-breeding.

I do not sell off my retired pairs. They are my pets! They all stay with me. I neuter males as needed. I'm not afraid to neuter a male to keep a pair together for their sake.

It's about your morals. Not money. But, for crying out loud, breeders have to charge SOMETHING for their babies. Yes, that means there is money involved in most cases. I've even given babies away at no cost and know for a fact others here have too. These babies were perfectly healthy. If we were in it for the money, there is no way that ever would have happened.
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:49 PM

PPP makes profits tho doing business the way they do.Selling to young of gliders and sick gliders means that they have a better chance of dying which means its all profit to them.Since some have even purchased a second pair thinking it was just a mistake their first one died.I'm a small breeder I have two pairs that are breeding.And I have now two cages of pets only .I put every bit of my money back into supplies for my babies.And my retired gliders are here to stay they are my pets all of them.I take a lot of time to make sure my gliders are very loving and gentle and easy to handle.But I've seen the newbies think that there is a lot of money to be made in breeding.Since I've been in the community.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 09:55 PM

I am still new here, but I like to think that one reason people breed these babies is to simply be able to share the pure joy of loving, and being loved by, a suggie.

And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.

It is a privilege to love and be loved by these babies. And they trust us implicitly to care for them. If someone is not willing to invest a little for that privilege, then would they be willing to pay exotic vet bills?

Yes, I like a good deal just like anyone else, but the good deal is knowing that I can get a healthy, loving glider from a responsible breeder. I don't have to worry about long term effects of malnutrition or poor health. I appreciate the sacrifice of time, effort and money that you give.

Now as for the 'puppy mill' type breeders.... well, I hope you know that NONE of this applies to them. But I won't get off on that tangent....

Here's to the breeders who sacrifice to do it right. Thankyou.
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Daffodilly
I am still new here, but I like to think that one reason people breed these babies is to simply be able to share the pure joy of loving, and being loved by, a suggie.

And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.

It is a privilege to love and be loved by these babies. And they trust us implicitly to care for them. If someone is not willing to invest a little for that privilege, then would they be willing to pay exotic vet bills?

Yes, I like a good deal just like anyone else, but the good deal is knowing that I can get a healthy, loving glider from a responsible breeder. I don't have to worry about long term effects of malnutrition or poor health. I appreciate the sacrifice of time, effort and money that you give.

Now as for the 'puppy mill' type breeders.... well, I hope you know that NONE of this applies to them. But I won't get off on that tangent....

Here's to the breeders who sacrifice to do it right. Thankyou.


Actually there is some that no matter how much they spend the gliders or animals are not given great care.All tho with most its a case that no matter what they spend the gliders and animals are loved.But there are some that the money doesn't change their idea that they are just property to own.And just cause they are something they own they are replaceable.The rescuers that rescues some of the most awesome animals can tell you that color of these animals or breeds of the animals.And how much they really cost these people didn't change the way they were cared for .Animals are for the most part for most of us they are just that are family .Which means we give them all the love and caring we can.And of course we can spoil them rotten.
Posted By: GliderLove

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:26 PM

I agree with most of what has been said. I DO KNOW for a fact that there are people out there that look for free and cheap gliders, then breed them and sell them to profit when they should not have been bred in the first place! And many times those very same people sell off those gliders just to keep the cycle going. It may not be a whole lot but there are people who do it, and sadly those are the gliders that have lower qualities of life. Your are 100% correct that a pretty good % of people go into breeding because they *think* they can profit from it.

I have 2 breeding pairs, and there is NO WAY I come close to profiting off that!! I have 6 other pet only gliders, and I too would NEVER, EVER sell a retired pair of gliders. That is one of things that show me people are in it for the money.

Even some of the "bigger" breeders still have a great cost that goes into their breeding program, I find it really hard to believe that anybody could live soley off the income of breeding gliders.
Posted By: sketchyglider

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:50 PM

well when i started to think about breeding i had already had just a few gliders and didnt even think about makeing a profit or liveing off the money that could possibly be made it was to as someone said before futher the lines but not for every body else's pleasure but for mine i wanted to see what would happen if you mix this kind and this kind and the only time that i was honestly intrested in getting a really expensive breeding pair wasnt yet again to make the money off of them but for the fact that i could possibly trade for a different color that i didnt have to further along my generations and make it easier for me to avoid inbreeding and at no point did i think that i could ever live off of the money made maybe for one month if i had a couple go they could pay the rent 1 whole month out of the year lol but then i would have just spent the money on them by accident by haveing the money and always looking at stuff for them it would have ended up for them without me planning on it not that i care thats why i do it its all for them
Posted By: Lynsie

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:54 PM

Amen! I don't think I could have said it better Virginia and everyone else. I have no idea how much I have spent on my gliders, but it's ALOT and I have in no way, shape, or form even begun to make any money back. You know why? Toys, pouches, cages, food, vet bills etc rack up FAST! Just in the last month alone I have spent over $500 on JUST some toys and pouches and I'm still not done.
Posted By: Jackie_Chans_Mom

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:58 PM

I am not a breeder - but I have several friends who are. I can tell you that those that are RESPONSIBLE and RESPECTABLE are not making any profit.

Sadly - as a rescuer - I can tell you that there ARE many, many smaller breeders out there who ARE doing it just to bring in some money. They don't care about lineage, their gliders are provided the bare minimum as far as diet, cage, toys, etc and their joeys are sold at a slightly higher price than average to anyone with money. They do sell them at an appropriate age, but do not screen new owners. MANY of these joeys end up in homes such as mine. Not all rescues started out with a mill breeder - but most of them started with an irresponsible or uncaring breeder.

Tammy is right - to some people it does not matter how much was spent on the glider - they are still treated like possessions. I have living in my home several gliders that came with lineage but were relinquished anyway! WFB's are not uncommon in rescue homes and many other colors are showing up more and more. HETS are even more common in rescue homes. I have two that were higher priced hets that were relinquished because they did not produce the desired color. frown On the flip side of that coin - I have adopted gliders to homes that treat them like ROYALTY - it is such a heartwarming and rewarding thing for a rescuer to see her rescues treated like they were worth all the treasure in the world. That is how ALL gliders should be treated.
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:59 PM

I just had to buy a new cage ($150), a stealth wheel to put in it ($40 w/shipping) and more fleece ($100) to make new cage sets! Plus the toys I make for them!

I've spent about $200 on Florianna's arm (and Dr. King is CHEAP!) in the last month and that's just ONE glider!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 10:59 PM

I only have one objection to what's been said so far......

Quote:
And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.


I got my first gliders for free. A breeding pair and their first, and at the time, only joey (female). SugarMama, SugarDaddy & SugarBaby.......and SugarMama had a joey IP we didn't know about as well (JoJo).

I love & cherish these guys just as much as I would had I paid hundreds for them. They are loved & spoiled and give love back freely.

I did not get them from a breeder, I got them from a young girl who realized she didn't have the time to take care of them since she was going off to college. She wanted someone who would take good care of them and we had met her mother by chance. We have many pets, mostly reptiles. We do breed and sell some of our Geckos.

I had been wanting sugar gliders for years and had been doing research for a year when the opportunity came up. I am in the process of getting JoJo & his younger brother neutered and after one more joey, SugarDaddy will be neutered as well. I had given thought to selling the joeys, but after spending the time bonding with them, there is just NO way I could part with any of them.....even my wildcat SugarBaby!!

Maybe in the future, I will consider expanding our little family. My Hubby is designing a HUGE cage for me.

Anyway, just wanted to point out that getting something for free doesn't always mean you care less for it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 11:04 PM

I hate breeders that sell their suggies that are 'retired' frown
That I feel is wrong. They are a living animal!

I agree with Val with the screening. You need to ask new owners how they're going to treat them. This is why breeders have a 'rep' they won't just give them to someone on the street to make a buck.

Before I decided on my girls I went through a few breeders asking them questions, making sure they provide care for their gliders. I feel that most of them have a great rep on this site and deserve it.
All the time they take into their gliders, spending time with them, providing them with a good diet, ect is a good breeder and not just in it for the buck... buck in it for the gliders sake.
I love those breeders smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 11:06 PM

I also agree 100% with Jessica on the 'free glider' part.
If I got a glider for free I would treat it just as good as if I spent $1,000 on him/her. I feel that it depends on the person.

I do however believe that if someone that doesn't know much about them and sees them for free vrs the normal price they will think more on what they're buying. There's still going to be impulse buying... but I believe if it's free it would be much worse.
Posted By: sketchyglider

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 11:14 PM

about the screening do it dont take me wrong on this just an aboservation it sucks to fill those things out over and over when your looking for a new baby (yet again im not saying it shouldnt be done) im just saying when you do know how to treat gliders and you know enough ( never everything) it gets really annoying to fill them out just to run into a dead end lets say the gliders already gone or something does anyone else feel this way? but besides that i still feel it should be done becuase how else are you suposed to know?
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/01/09 11:59 PM

I always talk to the person BEFORE I have them fill out an application. So I'm not wasting their time. I've been fortunate and have known (or met) most of the people I've sold joeys to.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 12:45 AM

There *are* many breeders who are doing it for "the money."

There are breeders who come out of no where, with no research, with no previous glider experience, who only seek out the colored gliders, and then want to sell them. They have no knowledge of the lines or the genetics. They see someone listing a glider for multiple thousands of dollars, and they want to cash in.

These people do not spoil their gliders with big cages, toys, cage sets, etc.

Yes - they are out there! No one on here is going to say "Yes, I breed for money." But - they know who they are!

Hopefully, they will be discovered for what they really are.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 01:02 AM

Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
If I got a glider for free I would treat it just as good as if I spent $1,000 on him/her. I feel that it depends on the person.

How many times have we all seen grey gliders referred to as "only grey". As if that makes them disposable!

Free? I have many rescues - all of which came to me for "free." They have the EXACT same cage sizes, get the same food, have the same toys, get the same care and love as my high-dollar gliders.

I've posted on here before: A mutt has no idea it isn't as "valuable" as a dog with show lineage! Both dogs will be equally devoted and loving. Both dogs will be loyal to a fault.

Gliders are the same way. My "free" gliders give me as much joy as the gliders I paid for. In fact, as I'm sure Val can tell you, sometimes you develop a greater love for those you have to fight for. The scared ones, the abused ones, the ones you have to work months to be able to pet.

I am NOT picking apart anyone here, and these posts are NOT directed to anyone in particular! I come to GC because I LOVE my gliders, and I want ALL gliders - even the ones from PPP (or maybe especially?) - to have the love and care they deserve! I think most people on GC feel the same way. Free is in the eye of the beholder!

The best way to shut Mill Breeders and breeders for profit down is to KEEP EDUCATING!

As far as "free" and "disposable" - I've never loved a glider I've never even met as much as I love Jackie Chan! He was a throw away - and I've learned so much from him and from Val.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: sketchyglider
about the screening do it dont take me wrong on this just an aboservation it sucks to fill those things out over and over when your looking for a new baby (yet again im not saying it shouldnt be done) im just saying when you do know how to treat gliders and you know enough ( never everything) it gets really annoying to fill them out just to run into a dead end lets say the gliders already gone or something does anyone else feel this way? but besides that i still feel it should be done becuase how else are you suposed to know?


I agree with that... I didn't like the forum I had to fill out but I filled it out as best as I could.

I just feel that you should at least talk to the person to know that they know about gliders... and are not just buying on impulse wink
Posted By: SugarBlossoms

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 01:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Daffodilly

And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.


I have given several joeys away to awesome homes. They have all been local to me and I KNOW for a fact they are spoiled beyond belief.

As far as ME getting "free" gliders, I have gotten quite a few. Either they were rescues or ended up in a situation where someone else refused vet care which ended up costing us thousands (yes, THOUSANDS) of dollars in the past 3 years alone. I have a girl now we picked up for FREE in August, the very next day we spent over $400.00 on a vet bill because she was so sick, had giardia..a UTI and HLP! After 4 months of vets, hardly any sleep and tons of worry...I am still having to get her to eat! I wouldn't trade her for the world, she is a bra baby now..at 8 1/2 YEARS old.

Not everyone gets a free glider for "FREE". ALL of mine have cost a lot in vet bills, cages, toys, cage sets, food, gas. My heart has been ripped to shreds a few times and I've been through medical issues with it and pure exhaustion. Will I keep doing it? YES! I take in the gliders no one else wants to spend time or money on to give them a great life. Some of these gliders were tossed away simply because they were to old to breed anymore. They weren't taken care of or abused. My first two came with HLP, foot amputation, tail amputation, botched neuter, giardia and roundworms..UTI's and nail infections causing toes to be lost! These two gliders had been thrown into a wall and left to die at 6 1/2 years old. Isabella passed away in Sept from a tumor, her mate is still with us going on 10 years old.

I could go and on...but the thing is...not everyone breeding is in it for money. I am hoping to breed a few colors eventually to help offset vet bills. The initial cost of the gliders themselves are costly too though!

NO glider I have will EVER leave their home here because of health issues, being retired or for ANY reason! I love them too much!
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 01:16 AM

Ok I'll step to the other side. The truth is, breeders are making money though. Considering I have spent $$$ on my gliders and not one of them is bringing $$$ back in to my pocket. Since breeders breed and sell joey's, they have the chance to recoup money spent on their gliders and they have an extra income to buy glider supplies and so forth. My pet only gliders bring in NO money - where as a breeders gliders do bring in money.

Just do some math- someone spends $2,000 on a mosaic - that mosaic then has mosaic twins that sell for $2,000 each- the expense of the glider is recouped and then there's $2,000 left over and that's just from one breeding pair. It's easy for someone that sells their joey's at the current average price for that color, to recoup the cost of the glider with the 1st set of twins.

My gliders are spoiled, they never go without- I can tell you not including medical bills, I don't spend $2,000 on them in a month let alone 6 months. A pair of gliders usually have 2-4 gliders in a 6month time frame.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 01:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Daffodilly
And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.


I am sorry I absolutely do NOT agree. I have been given a few gliders and I love my "free" gliders JUST as much as the two rescues I paid for to get them out of a glass house, I love them JUST as much as I love my Missy who I paid for.

All gliders in my home get the SAME amount of protection, love, toys and food. No matter how much they cost or their color.
Posted By: Cora

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 02:02 AM

I have 21 plus gliders and have only paid for 6. Does that mean I love the others less????? Heck no.

I currently only have 2 active breeding pairs right now.

Dont know what the future holds but I dont look to make a dime off my gliders. beleive it or not Nancy you will make more money on your vending in one year than I will make selling gliders.

I would like to hear from the big color breeders though.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 02:06 AM

Quote:
And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.


If I believed that, then Chris, Peggy, Alicia, Shelle, John and Gina would not have any of my Gianna and Marcell babies (all 3rd gen wfb). Nor would the all the homes have the rescues I've placed with them, ALL FOR FREE. Rescued or "home bred", given free or purchased (I've only sold two so far), ALL the gliders that have gone through my home go only to those I know will properly care for them.

Money does not make a person a better glider owner. Each of these homes provides the best homes for their gliders, good food, good cages, good toys, pouches, vet care, etc. More importantly, they each provide TONS of love to them.
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 02:16 AM

Originally Posted By: Cora
beleive it or not Nancy you will make more money on your vending in one year than I will make selling gliders.

I would like to hear from the big color breeders though.


I'm not doubting you there.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 02:35 AM

I'm new to the whole breeding world. I got my first pair, grays this year. They have had 2 sets of joeys so far. The first set I sold to a friend after having the male neutered at little to no cost (to her $150.00). In return I took all the money & purchased a bigger cage. For Christmas I got a pair of leu hets & they have 1 IP as we speak. I never intended to breed to sell. I just wanted the experience of seeing the growth & development of a glider. It was so rewarding & and experience that I 'll never forget. I wanted a leu for Christmas but it was out of my husbands price range. I ran across someone selling their leu het pair at a steal... hoping they would one day produce a leu & if they don't. I won't sell or rehome them. I love all my gliders equal & they are all treated equal no matter their color. I've only had mine for a little less than a year but I can tell you gliders aren't cheap animals to care for. All their goodies, cages, vet bills, cage accessories and so on is costly. I wouldn't trade them for all the money in the world, my husband will tell you that they are like my children. As some of you know I had my first joey pass this morning only after being OOP 3 days. It was heart breaking, I cried & I cried. I cried so much that it tore my husbands nerves all to pieces & it sent shivers up & down his spine. He felt so bad for me because he knows of the love & devotion I have for all my babies. So anyone that says we're in it for the money... get a clue.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 03:24 AM

The statement about people taking better care of what they pay for is not a judgment on people that received gliders free of charge.

It's a fact though, any pet that is being given away could attract the wrong people.

Anyone on this forum is a more responsible pet owner - we are all doing the things needed to learn more about these precious pets! But that isn't a blanket statement that those NOT on this forum are bad glider parents.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 03:45 AM

Well, first off, most breeders who ARE in it for the money probably won't admit it frown But an interesting question nonetheless.

I have heard (and believe) many breeders say they don't make much money (if any profit) from breeding. With gliders, I honestly think to have enough colored gliders to make a substantial profit, you would not be able to give them the SPACE (cage-wise) and TIME (play/interaction wise) to really be fair to the animals unless you had a small army helping you socialize and care for the gliders and an immense amount of space to house the gliders in appropriately sized cages. Just due to the housing and social needs of gliders, they are not very profitable animals in terms of breeding, at least if you are breeding ethically.

I agree that the only people probably making sizable bucks off of breeding are mills that have hundreds of tiny cages.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:10 AM

Originally Posted By: JenShigles
The statement about people taking better care of what they pay for is not a judgment on people that received gliders free of charge.
I think people realize that. I think most people that responded to that statement feel very strongly about their "free" gliders and want other people, such as newbies, to know that money doesn't matter to how their gliders are treated.

I do think there are breeders out there that care and love their gliders no matter what it costs them and are not "in it for the money." Personally, I can name a few that I truly believe do not care about the money, Cora, Melindakay, Alicia and Peggy (people I personally know)
Posted By: ORsuggiemomma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:28 AM

Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
And as for giving them free.... Well, we all know that we take much better care of what we pay for. The more we pay, the better we 'guard and protect'.


If I believed that, then Chris, Peggy, Alicia, Shelle, John and Gina would not have any of my Gianna and Marcell babies (all 3rd gen wfb). Nor would the all the homes have the rescues I've placed with them, ALL FOR FREE. Rescued or "home bred", given free or purchased (I've only sold two so far), ALL the gliders that have gone through my home go only to those I know will properly care for them.

Money does not make a person a better glider owner. Each of these homes provides the best homes for their gliders, good food, good cages, good toys, pouches, vet care, etc. More importantly, they each provide TONS of love to them.
I agree 1000%
I did not pay for my new baby, and I love her just like the one I did pay for, I didn't pay for my males either, and I love them just as much as the one I paid for too. I love them all EQUALLY and I don't believe for a second that you "guard and Protect" better if you pay for it or not. our babies are NOT objects, they are living parts of our families. and it's sad to me when others don't see it that way.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:37 AM

i am not a breeder, and sadly never got the chance to breed (both my baby snakes died tragically) but i do know some people have to be making money on glider breeding. when most people sell a leu for 1,500 and then you find only one person selling for 2,300 , im sorry but what is that but trying to make a profit. im not saying all are, but colored babies dont cost anymore to raise then grey babies, so someone has got to be making money when they sell several leus and mosaics at one time. i know some breeders will negotiate on colored glider pricing, and not all colored glider breeders are in it for the money, but i think when most people say breeders are in it for the money they mean the people who sell leus and mosaics, not greys.
Posted By: GliderLove

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:26 AM

The colored gliders are rarer, and thus made them more exspensive. Prices have gone down alot, and sadly the gliders fall into the wrong hands, get bred by greedy people and then you have leus being sold for stupidly cheap prices and lines get muddied up when people have worked so hard to fix them and breed out. The more pricey the glider, the better in my book! I would give a glider away for free, and I have to friends I trust. I still don't believe that responsible breeders actually profit from breeding, maybe some but not close to what they invested in their babies, and to keep their babies healthy and happy! I spent more in Popeye's vet visits last month(over $800!!) trying to save his life then I did selling gliders this year!
Posted By: Dancing

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:20 PM

Out of the two gliders I have sold, one was a white tip and one was a mosaic. The money from both went for glider items that were greatly needed. New cages ate up most of it and the rest was spent on fleece and toy parts and yes, even some of it went on stocking up on food for them.

However, I have spent MORE on neutering (just talking my own personal gliders now) and vet care in the past 3 years than I made on the sale of those two joeys. I also rescue and all males are neutered, usually paid for by me. I've had some help along the way with that and was very grateful for the help but it still does not equal what we've spent out of our own pockets.

We do this because we love the gliders and just want the best for them.

I hope to have more mosaic joeys in the future. I may or may not sell future mosaic joeys. But my gliders I have in my home are here because they are MY gliders. They are here because of who they are, not what they MIGHT produce for me.

I've had gliders 11 years and have always had breeding gliders. I can guarentee I'm not going to be able to retire anytime in the future off the money from my gliders.
Posted By: gliderma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:34 PM

I am relativly new to gliders, but have grown to love them very much and am fascinated with the color options. I love them all equally and they are here in my home as part of my family. When & if I would sell a joey, it would be for the good of that glider and to benefit the others. Gliders needs are not cheep and I would have to agree that it is not a way to make a living, but maybe make your living & there's better.
Posted By: scraptilldawn

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:36 PM

I have to disagree and say I do make money off of my joeys. I have 2- 260 Repts and they house my pair and trio. They are all my beloved pets. But instead of neutering my males I let them have joeys and sell them. I believe that I am making a profit off of them as I would give them the exact same care if they were neutered and not producing. So the money from the joeys is a bonus. Now it's certainly not a ton as I only have 4-8 joeys a year, but that is money that I wouldn't have otherwise. It does go to vet funds, food etc, but that's money not coming out of my pocket to care for them. We also managed a flat screen TV this year for Christmas because my joeys were all ready to go home just before Christmas. We saved all the money from the 3 joeys and went out and bought it. So I just don't think it's fair for people to say they don't make money from breeding. There are already plenty of gliders in the US needing homes so why continue to let them breed unless you are profiting in some way for it?
Posted By: StitchsMom

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:48 PM

Originally Posted By: scraptilldawn
There are already plenty of gliders in the US needing homes so why continue to let them breed unless you are profiting in some way for it?


I want to provide what wasn't there for me when I wanted a glider: a tame, socialized baby, raised lovingly indoors, around people, that is healthy, and you know where it came from. I couldn't get that in my area. So, I decided to do something about it. I can promise you...I make no profit from breeding. I only have one pair that breeds and six cages worth of gliders to care for. Do you really think that the handful of joeys I produce a year pay for all of their care and then leave me with money leftover? No way. Not even close.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:52 PM

With the cost of living it must be hard for breeders to make any substantial profit. Where we live it would be impossible to make a profit on breeding. Someone who lives out in the hills would stand a better chance at making some profit. It is my wish that all breeders do it for the love of the animal and not just getting rich. We are not breeders and never will be. We will leave it up to the pro's and enjoy the benefits of thier hard work. To all the responsible breeders out there "Your awesome" and "God bless you" for all you do! And too all the rescuers "You ROCK"! Many lives have been saved because of you and there is a special place in heaven for you! smile
Posted By: minkasmom

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 05:53 PM

I guess I would be classified as a "breeder"...I have 2 pairs who in the past have blessed me with joeys, and 1 girl hasn't received the message yet that I don't want any more: her cagemate had been neutered in August, but she wants "just ONE MORE" to my surprise and chagrin.

Some of the joeys that I've adopted out in the past 5 years were "sold"....others were "given away" to people that I love and TRUST to be good homes for them. And I'm here to tell you that there is NO WAY that I'm getting rich off of selling my babies. On more than one case, my neutering expense was HIGHER than what I received from the sale. And I've paid MANY MANY dollars for vet bills, groceries, mealies, wheels, bedding, etc etc.

Money is NOT an issue in my eyes when it comes to qualifying to adopt one of my joeys. Nope. I want to know that he/she will be in a LOVING, HAPPY HOME with a RESPONSIBLE glider owner; that he/she won't become "breeding stock" for a petstore/mill/whatever; and that I be kept up-to-date on their progress. Because to me it doesn't matter who I adopt my babies out to....they're still MY BABIES! mlove
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:01 PM

And anyone who has ever gotten a baby from Minkasmom is very lucky... I would love to have one but I would be single if one more came into my home... lol
Posted By: mommawannabe

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:05 PM

I am just a small breeder and I can definitely tell you I have come no where near recouping what I have spent. Ha wouldn't that be nice. I can see your point though Nancy with the mosaics and "colored" gliders. I have a Leu and WFB pair and a pair or 100% h/leu. The Leu I have is from that pair. I couldn't afford to by a leu...lol. She is my little sweetheart. I have 5 cages and all of them are absolutely huge and filled with stealths and toys and all the best stuff...heck my gliders eat better then we do. I personally got in it because my first pair was a "classic grey" pair and I wanted the joy of seeing and raising the joeys. Oh my gosh after that I was hooked. I absolutely love all my gliders and it is hard letting the joeys go. I don't always sell at the going rate because I just want them to go to good homes where they will be spoiled. I will not be giving up any of my gliders and I have all I can handle right now so I will not go bigger. Perhaps in few years when that first pair retires I will get another pair. No I will not be giving or selling my retirees. I have big plans for them living out their retirement with my family's love and care. I know at as a breeders standpoint that is not really practicle but that is what I plan on doing.

Anna
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:19 PM

roflmao

Sorry, I just busted up laughing at the thought of being in breeding to "get rich". Heeheehee!

I've lost count of all the money I've put into my gliderS(both for the gliders AND their supplies) and in the past year I've made not a penny in return! I'm FINALLY selling a joey and even if she sells at the price I have her listed at I'll still only be making back a fraction of what I put it and, in reality, I won't be making much, if anything, back at all because all that money will be going to bills and any left over will be going to get all the supplies so that hubby can convert out bedroom into a glider room and make all new, big PVC cages for the gliders because hubby feels that their room isn't big enough, so now we, the humans, get the smaller glider room and they get our nice big bedroom with it's own private bathroom...hmph! lol

I think that anyone who gets into breeding because they think they'll make lots of money is going to be VERY disappointed, lol.

Sure, some gliders may sell for a couple thousand dollars...but don't forget that you've gotta buy the parents, buy them their cages/toys/bedding/etc..., AND they won't have any babies for about a year, so that's a year of paying for their food and vet bills... lol
Posted By: princessmegi

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:38 PM

I agree with both sides. The way I see it, up until this year, I wasn't a breeder. This year, that changed. Up until I sell the first joey, I pay for EVERYTHING (vet, food, cages, pouches, toys, etc) out of my own pocket. When I start selling joeys, I WILL be making a profit because I won't have to pay for those things solely out of pocket. Breeders do have that advantage.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:48 PM

Nicole - I know that to you it is amusing to think of yourself being in it for the money.

I also know that you know the bigger picture isn't that amusing at all!

You have done HUGE amounts of research. You have become a wealth of knowledge in a very short period of time, and I'm sure you continue to educate yourself!

People like you are obviously breeding for love, not money.

However - there ARE people breeding for money. We can not for a minute get lulled into believing it doesn't happen, or couldn't happen.
Posted By: princessmegi

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 06:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Guerita135
roflmao

Sorry, I just busted up laughing at the thought of being in breeding to "get rich". Heeheehee!

I've lost count of all the money I've put into my gliderS(both for the gliders AND their supplies) and in the past year I've made not a penny in return! I'm FINALLY selling a joey and even if she sells at the price I have her listed at I'll still only be making back a fraction of what I put it and, in reality, I won't be making much, if anything, back at all because all that money will be going to bills and any left over will be going to get all the supplies so that hubby can convert out bedroom into a glider room and make all new, big PVC cages for the gliders because hubby feels that their room isn't big enough, so now we, the humans, get the smaller glider room and they get our nice big bedroom with it's own private bathroom...hmph! lol

I think that anyone who gets into breeding because they think they'll make lots of money is going to be VERY disappointed, lol.

Sure, some gliders may sell for a couple thousand dollars...but don't forget that you've gotta buy the parents, buy them their cages/toys/bedding/etc..., AND they won't have any babies for about a year, so that's a year of paying for their food and vet bills... lol


Nicole, you are still making money. I don't believe you are in it for the money, but just because you use the money for bills doesn't mean you aren't making it. If my paycheck pays for my house payment or my car, does that mean that my employer didn't pay me?
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 07:20 PM

Lol, true Megi. I guess you're right about that. I'm just saying that breeders aren't going to be quiting our day jobs any time soon, lol.

We make enough to pay for our gliders' needs and MAYBE have a little left. Breaking even with what we put into getting our gliders in the first place, vet bill, and supplies is a feat of it's own. To actually then make a profit(break out of the red zone) would be a miracle, lol.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 07:27 PM

Getting money and being "in it" for the money are two completely different things!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 07:31 PM

Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Getting money and being "in it" for the money are two completely different things!


agree
Posted By: princessmegi

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/02/09 07:34 PM

I know, that's why I said Nicole wasn't in it for the money. The reputable breeders aren't. Regardless, they do make money.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 12:15 AM

Maybe I misunderstood this post. It says: "Breders: In it for the money?"

I assume they mean in it to "PROFIT".

In order to profit, you must take your Income, deduct your Expenses, and if there is a positive amount left, you have made a Profit, negative amount, you have a loss. (However, with the love we receive and give to our babies, there can never be a true loss. As the commercial says, "It's priceless!")

So far, I haven't made a profit. Maybe that's because I choose to take the money I bring in (income) and reinvest it in my babies - food, cages, toys, supplies, vet bills, new gliders etc. Yes, it does make it nice that the money we receive helps pay for these expenses, but in my case, there sure isn't a profit!

It's basic accounting principals. I am in the RED.
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 12:23 AM

If I had been breeding for money I would not care where my kids are today but I do care. I no longer breed though, just to many needing homes now wont contribute to that.
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 12:48 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
i am not a breeder, and sadly never got the chance to breed (both my baby snakes died tragically) but i do know some people have to be making money on glider breeding. when most people sell a leu for 1,500 and then you find only one person selling for 2,300 , im sorry but what is that but trying to make a profit. im not saying all are, but colored babies dont cost anymore to raise then grey babies, so someone has got to be making money when they sell several leus and mosaics at one time. i know some breeders will negotiate on colored glider pricing, and not all colored glider breeders are in it for the money, but i think when most people say breeders are in it for the money they mean the people who sell leus and mosaics, not greys.



When a breeder sells a leu for $2300 and not $1500, it's most likely due to the lineage. And it's also a case of what the market can bear. Why shouldn't a breeder make a profit IF THEY CAN?

When you say colored gliders don't cost more to raise than grays, that's absolutely correct...but...the breeder has to make the initial EXPENSIVE investment to buy that colored glider to breed.

I breed all types of gliders, creme-ino's, platinum mosaics, mosaics, leus, wfb's and grays. As you can see in one of my posts, I've spent quite a lot of money to buy these gliders. If I make ANY profit in the next 10 years (especially since a glider can't be bred that long, lol), I'd be surprised. The money I get from selling my joeys goes back into my gliders. I can't pay bills with the money, cause it's not there! There are always cages to buy, fleece for new cage sets, food, vet bills, toys, emergency kits, and many other things for them.
Posted By: silverwolf

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 01:06 AM

I run a company other than breeding. Honestly people look at it and think well they make alot of money that is an absolute lie. Most mom and pop places barely stay afloat. Profit only comes after they pay all the expenses and usually the expenses outweigh the the incomming money. It is the same with breeding in that respect. Even those that have the colored gliders have alot of expenses in upkeep purchases and other costs involved. I doubt very many of those people actually make a profit. You also have to consider that most gliders only breed for about 4 years. They have to be a year old (or are suppose to be) to have babies and most breeders retire then at about five years old so that is a really short window. So I do not believe that many make a profit they may cover costs but very few profit from it.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:04 AM

everyone keeps saying that all the money made from selling joeys goes to cages and cage sets. not to be rude or call anyone a liar, please dont think im doing that, but a good cage should last you at least 3-5 years, and a good cage set should last a year. one normal grey joey goes for 150, the price of a cage, the second grey joey can buy 2 expensive cage sets premade or enough fleece to make 10 cage sets. if each person sells 4 to 8 hrey joeys a year thats 600 to 1200 a year in sales, minus the 2 for cage set and cage, that leaves you with 300 to 600 a year. thats just people who sell only greys. im not trying to offend anyone, just saying if you budgeted better and bought better stuff then you would make more profit. plus, the cost of breeder gliders and all the food and toys and cages and vet bills is just part of owning a glider regarless of wheather you breed or not.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:24 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
im not trying to offend anyone, just saying if you budgeted better and bought better stuff then you would make more profit. plus, the cost of breeder gliders and all the food and toys and cages and vet bills is just part of owning a glider regarless of wheather you breed or not.


JMO...
Most breeders on this site are not into breeding and selling their joeys to make a profit. And yes it is a bit offensive for me to hear that if we budgeted better and bought better stuff etc. etc. that we would make a profit. Vet bills can far exceed any amount that you would make from breeding ~ you don't think twice about taking your sick glider to the vet or how much it would cost to get them better. I have paid thousands of $'s for toys, materials, and treats for my sugar gliders (this is probibly not even close to the amount that others pay for stuff for their suggies). Any money that I receive from selling a joey supplements what I've paid out or what more I can buy for my gliders. "in it for the money" I wouldn't think so, as a responsible owner and breeder puts a lot more money into it than the amount of money they would get out of it.
Posted By: ValkyrieMome

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:27 AM

Sounds like a great plan, Crazy.

However... I currently have my 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th joeys here.

My first, a Buttercream, I sold for $75- because I loved the home she was going to.

The second I kept, because he was cranky. He's calmed down a ton now. But, I didn't want to let a crabby joey go.

2 of the ones here currently are going to a reduced price to a great home. One is a WF, one is a gray. I'm not getting ... what is your estimate? $300?

The other two I'm also selling for reduced prices to excellent homes. The sale price of these two will go a long way towards paying off their father, who I still owe a good deal of money on. I have a second glider whom I owe money on, also. The two joeys I'm selling won't bring in enough to pay both breeders. But - I will be able to make payments, and I'm glad of that!

I could "budget better" as you say. I could sell my gliders at flea markets. I could keep them all in 1 foot square cages. I could buy them cheap pouches, no wheels and no toys. But ... I'm not doing that.

You are extremely naive. And I don't appreciate you implying that my friends and I are either foolish with our money or lying.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:32 AM

Well, my accountant can testify that I haven't made a penny. Even being a larger breeder and having higher end colors for sale is not a guarantee to make money. The money I invested in my gliders was spent when gliders were more expensive. I paid $2500 for my leus, $5000-$6000 for my albinos, $7500 for my creamino, $5000+ for my mosaics and even $1500 for my 100% leu hets. By the time my gliders were old enough to start breeding and producing, the prices for those offspring have dropped significantly. They are continuing to drop. The initial investment was enough to put me in the red for many years. Having a lot of gliders also increases your expenses. I spend around $200 every week for fresh fruits and veggies, never mind HPW, honey, bee pollen, super worms and wax worms. That is just food. I also have the expense of cages, pouches, toys, wheels, etc. Vet care is also a large expense. Every one of my gliders gets a yearly exam. That is $75 for each glider.

Eventually, I will come out of the red. I am hoping that by next year I do see an actual profit. It would be pleasant to have a bit of money to compansate for the amount of hours I spend every week cleaning cages, socializing babies, answering emails. There is no way it would ever be enough money to make a living on. That is why hubby and I both work outside the home. Those jobs are the ones that pay the bills.

The one thing that does make me laugh is when someone sees a glider for sale for $2000 and all they see is profit. Do you realize that 30% of that money goes to the government? Yes, Uncle Sam gets $600 of that $2000 "sale", leaving me with $1400. I also have the added expense of my USDA licensing, which requires paying a vet to come to my house every year and paying the USDA their "share" of my sales.

Even when a breeder finally does come out ahead, take the amount of money that they actually take in as profit and divide that into the amount of hours they spend caring for the gliders. I will guarantee you that it is far less than minimum wage. I wonder how many people would truly be willing to work for so little pay?
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:32 AM

Well said Alden and Stacie! thumb
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:40 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
everyone keeps saying that all the money made from selling joeys goes to cages and cage sets. not to be rude or call anyone a liar, please dont think im doing that, but a good cage should last you at least 3-5 years, and a good cage set should last a year. one normal grey joey goes for 150, the price of a cage, the second grey joey can buy 2 expensive cage sets premade or enough fleece to make 10 cage sets. if each person sells 4 to 8 hrey joeys a year thats 600 to 1200 a year in sales, minus the 2 for cage set and cage, that leaves you with 300 to 600 a year. thats just people who sell only greys. im not trying to offend anyone, just saying if you budgeted better and bought better stuff then you would make more profit. plus, the cost of breeder gliders and all the food and toys and cages and vet bills is just part of owning a glider regarless of wheather you breed or not.


Cage sets do NOT last 1 year or I am to picky about my cage sets.

Cages should be replaced when showing signs of rust ASP and they would last about 2 year if they cost 150.00 unless I am doing it wrong.

Just my opion.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 02:50 AM

Originally Posted By: GizmosGal
Well, my accountant can testify that I haven't made a penny. Even being a larger breeder and having higher end colors for sale is not a guarantee to make money. The money I invested in my gliders was spent when gliders were more expensive. I paid $2500 for my leus, $5000-$6000 for my albinos, $7500 for my creamino, $5000+ for my mosaics and even $1500 for my 100% leu hets. By the time my gliders were old enough to start breeding and producing, the prices for those offspring have dropped significantly. They are continuing to drop. The initial investment was enough to put me in the red for many years. Having a lot of gliders also increases your expenses. I spend around $200 every week for fresh fruits and veggies, never mind HPW, honey, bee pollen, super worms and wax worms. That is just food. I also have the expense of cages, pouches, toys, wheels, etc. Vet care is also a large expense. Every one of my gliders gets a yearly exam. That is $75 for each glider.


The one thing that does make me laugh is when someone sees a glider for sale for $2000 and all they see is profit. Do you realize that 30% of that money goes to the government? Yes, Uncle Sam gets $600 of that $2000 "sale", leaving me with $1400. I also have the added expense of my USDA licensing, which requires paying a vet to come to my house every year and paying the USDA their "share" of my sales.


Lol Stacie I was thinking the same thing but did not know how to put it I knew you would come and put it in better words... Good posting stacie =]
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:02 AM

i shoulda known my comments were gonna get blown outta proportion like that. Stacie, how many gliders do you have that it costs 200 a week to feed them?

JMO, but breeders who have that many gliders cannot be giving enough attention to all of them. its just not humanly possible, and since none of you are making any money then i know you dont have any hired employees to help care for the gliders and play with them every day, unless you have a husband or wife to help. 2 people cannot give 10-20 gliders enough love and attention no matter how good their intentions are. especially if those two people work secular jobs, as all of you say you do.

to the people who took offense to my comments, i started off by saying im not trying to call anyone a liar or offend anyone, so those who accuse me of calling people liars and offending people can only blame yourselves for misinterpreting my intentions. i am not a breeder, and i was trying to give breeders reasons why people say you must be making a profit. i am trying to show you what other people think so that you can better defend yourselves.

michelle, you need better cage sets if they dont last a year. and powder coated cages wont rust as quickly as the pvc coated ones, a powder coated cage should last longer then 3 years.
Posted By: ORsuggiemomma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:07 AM

OMG WOW! shock shock shock
Posted By: gliderma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:11 AM

It's the same way for anyone that runs their own business. Whether you are selling gliders or offering a service. Lot's of people think I make lots of $$$ because I teach massage therapy and charge $2500 for tuition. Sure if I get a class with 4 students, thats $10,000, but most of them do a payment plan and a few don't keep up on the payments, which makes me have to go to court to collect and costs $$$. Even if they all paid at once, it would have to be budgeted over the 16 weeks of the session. I have to pay rent on my space, utilities, phone, and books and items for the class. There's not much of a profit when you factor everything else in.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:11 AM

I buy from the best. They just don't last 1 year. Like I said I might be picky too. But I also have only 6 gliders and one room of stuff for them too.I do hand wash mine too. As far as the cage mine is powder coated but I am just now seeing some rust. Maybe I scrub to hard.
Posted By: GliderNursery

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:15 AM

Very well put Stacie and Alden! I was just about to make a post regarding our time. I only have a fraction of the gliders that others here have, but I spend quite a bit of time on them, e-mails, phone calls, etc..

I spoke with a person about a glider for easily over 10 hours on the phone educating them. I then refused to sell for various reasons, they honestly would not have been able to provide for the glider the way I feel they should. Their hearts were in the right place though, and maybe someday they will be wonderful glider parents.

But my hourly rate would most likely be considered that of a "sweat-shop"! roflmao
Posted By: reeny

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:31 AM

I can tell you one thing as a new breeder I have not seen any profit in my first year. Unless you have experienced the responsibility of being a eithical and responsible breeder you have no idea how much it actually cost.

By Cost I am not just talking about $. Although that is a large part of it. Cost to care for each glider who I consider to be my pets first. I don't have my gliders in small cages but in flight cages. I think I have as much fun as they do decorating and watching them have fun in the cages. Cost of making sure each glider has a proven diet and mealies and proper fruits and vegetables. Cost to make sure each has proper vet care, cultures, fecal floats. My vet is not cheap, he is extremely expensive. Ask Peggy she knows everytime I leave his office it cost me $300-$500. I make sure that each and every joey that leaves my home is healthy and well socialized.

Now lets talk about emotional cost. Sleepless nights, joeys that don't make it. As a new breeder every birth of a joey is a wonderful experience, a little nerve racking, as a good breeder hopefully that will never change. Hours cleaning and making sure their environment is safe. The time I spend interviewing and making sure that each glider family is the best suited for my little joeys. Time that I spend answering questions, etc. etc.

I can tell you I have not seen 1 cent of a profit. I still owe some money for my Mosaic. The cost of being a good breeder will never be made up in profits.

The thrill of watching a set of triplets survive PRICELESS.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:38 AM

yes, but what i am trying to say is the cost of cages and vet and food and toys and time spent bonding and cleaning and decorating and the emotional toll of taking care of a sick glider is all there even when you arent a breeder. so the only time you could count those things as breeding expenses is the food and vet and emotional toll for the joeys. the adult breeders are your pets, and therefore the cost of caring for them is just cost of owning a pet.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:49 AM

my chihuahua has never been a breeder, and i have spent well over 1000 on her toys and beds and vet bills and clothing in the 2 years ive had her, and the emotional stress when she is sick (my poor baby is sick now and i sat with her for hours) are just the cost of owning a pet. those costs wouldnt be covered if she had puppies and i sold them for 600, what they would be worth. but those also arent extra costs from breeding her. 600 for a puppy would cover the EXTRA cost of breeding- deworming the puppies and getting the first round of shots would be about 50 a puppy, plus maybe 10 in food before they sell. so thats pure profit of 540 per puppy, and that would leave plenty of room to negotiate a price to send a puppy to a good home. i could sell them for 100 and still make profit. now i know the numbers are different for gliders but the concept is the same. the original breeder cost doesnt count, you chose an expensive color as a pet, which in 5 years or so after you retire them from breeding is what they will be, a pet. you dont get rid of them because they arent "earning their keep". i know all good breeders keep the gliders and love them just the same.

and yes, i have a vey close friend who was an amazing pug breeders, and she did make money.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:54 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
2 people cannot give 10-20 gliders enough love and attention no matter how good their intentions are. especially if those two people work secular jobs, as all of you say you do.


I've gotta speak against that...

My husband and I are currently caring for 17 gliders and 2 joeys OOP and ALL of them get handled each night! I can get a video clip of hubby chasing his babies around the house as proof if you like! roflmao

It takes alot of time and effort, but I can gaurantee you that where there's a will there's a way. wink You can ask any breeder with that many gliders(or more) and I'm sure they'll say the same thing. smile

Also, my house is open to people visiting and you can pull out ANY of my gliders and the only one that MIGHT bite you would be Milky Way, but I bought him and his mate as adults and they weren't handled much, but they're coming along nicely and are slowly becoming angels like everyone else. wink

Heck, just ask Leyna! I brought Gollum with me to her house yesterday and she snatched him right up and even clipped his nails and only one got little nippy(he always does one "taste", not being mean, it's like that's his way of seeing who you are, lol). He never crabbed or got mad or anything and for a moment I thought he was going to go down her shirt for a nap! roflmao

Anyways... yeah, I just wanted to say that.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 03:59 AM

you may hold all 19 everyday, but for how long? and just because a glider is nice doesnt mean they get a lot of attention. i got zoie because her owners couldnt give her enough attention and she never crabs or bites and bonded to us immediately. thats just how she is.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:07 AM

btw nicole, if the 19 gliders get attention everyday that must take up a lot of time. for example if you and your hubby each play with 2 gliders at a time for an hour you can do 4 gliders in an hour. thats 5 HOURS to give the gliders the time the deserve. so how much time do the ferrets and cats get? ferrets need A LOT of time out of the cage to run and explore, and they need supervision to keep them safe. you have to admit someone isnt getting all the love they deserve. and what about work? if you arent making money in breeding you must be working, say 8 hours a day. well thats 13 a day not including commute and dinner. so we'll say an hour to commute and eat (multitask). that only leaves maximum of 10 hours a day to sleep and play with the ferrets and cats and clean up after all the animals and talk on GC and talk to potential buyers.
Posted By: konotashi

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:22 AM

Some people have cages of 5+ gliders; not everyone has cages of just two gliders. If you have 20 gliders, all in cages of 5, then that would take two hours if the hubby and she did it that way. Some people will hire other people to come in and play with gliders, so that cuts time by a lot as well.
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:32 AM

I have 26 gliders, plus 12 babies and I handle each one of them every day! PLUS, I have tent time for at LEAST an hour with half of my 11 cages one night and half the next night (one cage at a time). Granted, I don't work at a job outside my home anymore, I'm disabled now so I can't work, but even if I did, I would find the time to spend with them. I did it before while working and I'd do it again.
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:37 AM

Crazy, in case you didn't notice...gliders are nocturnal! Ferrets and cats have me ALLLLL day, then the gliders get us all night! lol

My cats get my attention whenever they want it, so they're not lacking. My ferrets' heater went ka-put recently, so we've had to put them in a cage in the kitchen instead of their big walk-in closet(wah!). I used to let them have run of the sewing room(all fabrics and stuff up off the floor and out of reach, of course, lol) every other day, but now that they're in a cage again hubby has set up an enclosed area in the livingroom that they get to come out and play in every day till they get pooped(usually a couple hours, then they're in a pile asleep and one or 2 are dragging themselves lazily through the tunnel, haha). So, they ferrets aren't lacking. wink

As for the gliders, it depends on who the gliders are. Some will come out, such as the older joeys, and play with me for an hour straight(although they usually end up asleep in my pocket, lol). Others, such as Milky Way ad Leda and Sysko and Celest will NOT come out and play. They'll just stand frozen and look terrified, lol. So, for them I set up the tent a couple times a week and let them have their own time in there to play out of their cages without me [censored] them out.

I also take turns carrying around different gliders each day. Joeys get bra-time EVERY day from the time they are 2 weeks OOP. And, of course, every morning I pull out each pouch and hand out treats, do once-overs, and give them all kisses and tell them their my little smookums and gives kisses to those that let me, lol.

Then again, maybe it has something to do with the fact that I don't work a "job". My job is to make bedding, that's all. So my hours are my own to make.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:37 AM

For ther record, I don't think you would make a $540 profit from selling any kind of puppy or animal for $600. you take into account the cost of feeding the puppies, vet visits, vaccinations, vet appointments for the mother who is pregnant and the nursing, possibly paying a stud fee, paying for puppies that get sick and need additional care, caring for puppies that don't get sold right away, extra nutrition for the mother...if you think about it every last penny goes into caring for the dogs that are bred, and it's no different for gliders. Glider vet care alone is so much more expensive than dogs in many cases, not to mention having to buy their food, pay for shipping, pay for cleaning supplies for the cages, buying new gliders to prevent inbreeding, emergency funds, bedding, toys, food bowls, water bottles, bonding pouches, tent toys...just to namea few things that gliders owners are faced with. People with full time jobs have those jobs for a reason; to pay their bills and take care of their gliders. i don't know about you but if I bred gliders I would put all the money I recieved from selling joeys into caring for my gliders, so I could save the money i make working at my job and put it towards a retirement fund or college for my kids or fixing that leaky roof...And just because people work full time jobs and have 20 gliders doesn't mean that each glider doesn't get all the love and attention it needs and deserves. i work full time for the military and have a 45 minute commute everyday which means i wake up at 4 am and don't leave work until 5pm, don't get home until 6 pm, eat dinner at 7 pm, take a shower at 8 pm and by 830 pm I'm pooped but you know what? I still make my gliders' food and take them out and play with them for at least an hour after that so if I don't get to sleep until 1030 or 1130 at night, then that's a sacrifice that i willingly make to ensure the happiness of my gliders. I even stay up late to play with my beta fish because he likes to get petted!! life is all about sacrifice and if it means sacrificng a couple of hours of sleep to make sure everyone gets played with and is happy, then I'll do that, and I'm sure every other good person here would do exactly the same.




Sorry for the sort of rant, but I needed to get that out...
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:40 AM

Crazytank... How long have you owned gliders? sorry.. I've been on vacation so I dont know you...
Posted By: konotashi

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:41 AM

Breeding gliders is also different than breeding chihuahuas. Gliders need cages - good sized, fairly expensive cages. Vet care is also (typically) more expensive for a sugar glider than typical vet care. You can also get either $150 for a glider or $5,000. BUT you typically get two babies. Sometimes one, sometimes three, but normally if there's three, one of them has to be handraised. Sugar glider breeding is NOTHING like chi breeding. I'm not saying I have experience in this, that's just my opinion on the subject.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:46 AM

4. GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board, be polite,courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means Illegal substances, Illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board, take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the pm feature. Since we are a G rated board, the decision has been made not to allow any web blog links like below due to non G rated material on them.

We have some very experienced breeders posting in this thread and some who haven't had the first joey experience picking apart what they are doing and arguing with their posts.

I think it is time to stop unless you are speaking from personal experience.
Posted By: SugareeErin

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 04:51 AM

Ya I think a lot of us are sleep deprived roflmao I feel like the glider room is a time warp sometimes. I go in there for a second and hours pass lol

I know I stay up till 2 or 3 all the time and get up at 6 for work :/

It's totally worth it tho, I love all my babies. I have 14 here now and they all get attention every day.
Posted By: Suggiegramma

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 05:01 AM

My schedule has been changed to be with my babies. I don't usually go to sleep before 5-6:00am, but I get to sleep in too! LOL
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 05:34 AM

roflmao yep gotta be a night owl for these guys !!
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 06:04 AM

well i dont think i was being mean, but since so many people are getting upset and offended and so many mods are getting on my case im just gonna gracefully bow out of this topic. but fyi-its a controversial topic, debates get heated, thats just what happens.

whatever, bye
Posted By: KarenE

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 06:20 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
well i dont think i was being mean, but since so many people are getting upset and offended and so many mods are getting on my case im just gonna gracefully bow out of this topic. but fyi-its a controversial topic, debates get heated, thats just what happens.

whatever, bye


I take personal offense when things are posted incorrectly about the Moderators. So many mods were not getting on your case.

Posted By: KarenE

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 06:28 AM

Originally Posted By: crazytanak
but fyi-its a controversial topic, debates get heated, thats just what happens.


You are correct, however, once your point is made you do not keep trying to drive it home when you have no experience on that particular topic. You don't keep hammering at people.

FYI, this is where Rule 4 comes into play. You can post by the rules or not at all. Plain and simple.

Posted By: Guerita135

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 06:41 AM

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
roflmao yep gotta be a night owl for these guys !!


Ain't that the truth! Up til a couple weeks ago I was truelly nocturnal! I would go to sleep around noon and wake up at 10pm. roflmao
Posted By: cyndiekb

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 08:56 AM

3 am and i am still up. Had to check on a pair placed in Fl before i could even find peace enough to sleep. They get under your skin that much.

PS I stopped breeding and I am in the hole 1 Shelby mustang worth ohh well smile
Posted By: dranger1108

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 10:42 AM

It's almost 5 am, and it's so fun, cause the gliders are up and playing... they are full of mischief in the wee hours of the night. cloud9
Posted By: Gossamer

Re: Breeders: In it for the money? - 01/03/09 07:37 PM

Crazy- are you saying that Breeders don't care about their gliders because they just want to make money from them? You must not know too many breeders (at least the ones on this board) because they seem to take very good care of them. They wouldn't post pictures of their gliders and their cages and discuss all the silly things that their gliders did, if they didn't care. They probably wouldn't post at all except for the classifieds. I personally don't care if a breeder makes a profit - they deserve it with all the time and emotional energy they put into their gliders.

And why do you think that gliders need to be handled every single day for hours? My gliders have a glider safe room that I let them play in. All I do is open the cage door and they come out. There are some days that I open the cage door - they come out for about 10 minutes, then go back in their cage to play. The definately prefer the company of each other over me.
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