GliderCENTRAL

HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's

Posted By: Trigger

HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/27/11 11:54 PM

Yep, yep, yep It's here...
http://www.hpwplus.com/default.htm

My order is in and me and my monkeys are doing a happy dance dance
Posted By: carolinasuggies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:00 AM

dunno I heard that it isn't ACTUALLY HPW (wombaroo) different ingredients! question
Posted By: Teresa56

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:02 AM

My babies have been eating the HPW Plus for a couple of months now. They love it- never any leftovers. Their coats for thick and so soft to the touch. Can't wait to try the HPW Complete. Peggy worked very hard on making this happen. I am happy and thrilled for her. She will make glider slaves happy with a easy diet and gliders will be healthy from eating a healthy diet.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:12 AM

It is not WHPS...Wombaroo High Protein Supplement the product made in AU, It IS HPW plus or HPW Complete.

HPW would be yhe diet created here by Peggy Brewer, HPW Plus or Hpw Complete would also be Peggy Brewers diet
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:22 AM

My order is in as well! I cant wait. Me and my babies are going to be so happy!


Thank you so much Peggy for all you do for us slaves and our babies!
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:34 AM

So I got a couple questions/concerns about the American HPW.

1.) Why the vegetable oil preserved with BHA/BHT? That wasn't in the original (at least not the one I have?). BHA/BHT is one of the ingredients I stay away from both in my food and in pet food. Isn't that bad for gliders?

2.) The HPW Complete sounds interesting but is that meant to be a just add water diet like the site says? Isn't the original still better because it has fresh protein?

3.) We'll still be able to order the original HPW right? o.o;; I get mine from Sweet Sugar Gliders. I heard some things about not being able to get it any more... anyone have more info/insight on the above? This isn't a critique of the American vs. Aussie. I'm just curious/concerned.
Posted By: Teresa56

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:46 AM

There is a link to contact the person that made the diet, she would know better than anyone about the changes. I like to get the facts from the source and not opinions of others on most all matters when I can.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Temulin
So I got a couple questions/concerns about the American HPW.

1.) Why the vegetable oil preserved with BHA/BHT? That wasn't in the original (at least not the one I have?). BHA/BHT is one of the ingredients I stay away from both in my food and in pet food. Isn't that bad for gliders?
This is NOT Wombaroo High Protein Supplement, it is Peggy Brewer's HPW...now the HPW plus or HPW complete

2.) The HPW Complete sounds interesting but is that meant to be a just add water diet like the site says? Isn't the original still better because it has fresh protein?
Go with the HPW plus as I am and you still add your fresh eggs and honey. I use this one cuz I'm picky about my honey

3.) We'll still be able to order the original HPW right? o.o;; I get mine from Sweet Sugar Gliders. I heard some things about not being able to get it any more... anyone have more info/insight on the above? This isn't a critique of the American vs. Aussie. I'm just curious/concerned.


Are you asking about the HPW diet or Wombaroo High Protein Supplement? They are two completely separate things
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 12:58 AM

The supplement - I mean the actual wombaroo powder in the bag vs. what they're calling HPW plus and HPW complete.
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Teresa56
There is a link to contact the person that made the diet, she would know better than anyone about the changes. I like to get the facts from the source and not opinions of others on most all matters when I can.


Thanks! I might just do that. :3
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:06 AM

Originally Posted By: Temulin
So I got a couple questions/concerns about the American HPW.


3.) We'll still be able to order the original HPW right?


Yes the High Protein Womb powder can still be ordered from vendors here in the states.
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:10 AM

Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Originally Posted By: Temulin
So I got a couple questions/concerns about the American HPW.


3.) We'll still be able to order the original HPW right?


Yes the High Protein Womb powder can still be ordered from vendors here in the states.


Oh okay - awesome. Thanks.
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:15 AM

Originally Posted By: Trigger

Are you asking about the HPW diet or Wombaroo High Protein Supplement? They are two completely separate things


Are they Jen? From my understanding the HPW Plus was the same as the HPW powder we are all use to using, except for the new added ingredients added, which makes it the Plus!!

I'm wondering what is used to give it the vanilla scent?
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:20 AM

I think she meant the actual diet - like the whole recipe rather than just the protein powder.

I'm not sure, but the powder always smelled kinda nice to me... XD I have no idea why.
Posted By: Trigger

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:28 AM

Nancy on phone with the mom. BBL
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:31 AM

Passwell is the founder of Wombaroo food products- HPW is a diet that is made with the High Protein Supplement that is manufactured by Wombarroo.

So could this new Manufacturer/Peggy call this new powder HPW Plus?

The HPW diet stood for High Protein Wombaroo diet - But with Passwell, The W has no meaning to the ingredients - it's the name of their food line.
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:32 AM

If you have questions about any of the HPW diets you will need to contact Peggy directly.

http://critterlove.com/contact/contact.htm
Posted By: Trigger

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 01:46 AM

Yes I mean the HPW diet
Wombaroo High Protein Supplement:
Dosage and Administration: Disperse powder over fruit and other foods offered to gliders, flying foxes, possums and birds. More detailed information is provided on the label.

I fed HPW diet this powder was used with added water, honey, eggs, and bee pollen
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 02:47 AM

so will Peggy come tell us about this mix ??
Posted By: IowaMisty

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 02:53 AM

Maybe Peggy will pop in here & comment.

Originally Posted By: Temulin


3.) We'll still be able to order the original HPW right? o.o;; I get mine from Sweet Sugar Gliders. I heard some things about not being able to get it any more... anyone have more info/insight on the above? This isn't a critique of the American vs. Aussie. I'm just curious/concerned.


I'm from Sweet Sugar Gliders & I can assure you that we are still selling Wombaroo's Hi Protein supplement powder.

I haven't heard a lot of details from Peggy directly, but I definitely have some concerns & questions about this new powder. I have heard that she has found a US manufacturer to make her powder. If this is the case, I believe it is misleading to call it "HPW". We've had an idea very similar to this that we've been toying around with for a long time & the thing we have been concerned about is that the drying process used to make dried honey puts more maltodextrin (sweetener/preservative) into the diet. This means you're getting (varies by manufacturer) around 50% honey & 50% sweetener/preservatives. When you dry things out, you lose a portion of the nutrients too. We are still toying with the idea of offering a similar product for people to have on hand in case of emergencies or to use when traveling. I would still be leery of it at this point as a main diet. Convenience is great, but there's often a price for that.

If Peggy has come up with a way to get around the issues with drying honey & eggs (stripping the nutrients & added preservatives), I'm all for hearing about it & maybe one day we'll even sell her product in our store. I'm not trying to pass any judgment at this point. I was just saying those are the concerns we had when researching doing this same idea ourselves. So at this point, I would be very cautious about it.

Misty
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 02:59 AM

YES I love for her to man up and come on here and GGP and tell everyone about it then ahaving someone else do it since it is her thing . I think it only fair , I have talk to her but she doesnt really say much at all .
Posted By: kjgoulet

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:08 AM

I just emailed her cause I had some concerns about the new mix as well. I want what's best for my little babies so I want to make sure it's better than the HPW that they are being fed now before I wonder about switching them.
Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:09 AM

Originally Posted By: vhenke11
YES I love for her to man up and come on here and GGP and tell everyone about it then ahaving someone else do it since it is her thing . I think it only fair , I have talk to her but she doesnt really say much at all .


Peggy is very unfortunately not allowed on GC anymore, or I'm sure she would "man up" and be here. Maybe instead of being rude, you could contact her directly, like was stated in an earlier post thumb If you are having trouble with having your questions answered, try rewording them. They might not be as clear as you think they are.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:12 AM

I did why is she not allowed on here anymore ??
Posted By: kjgoulet

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily
Originally Posted By: vhenke11
YES I love for her to man up and come on here and GGP and tell everyone about it then ahaving someone else do it since it is her thing . I think it only fair , I have talk to her but she doesnt really say much at all .


Peggy is very unfortunately not allowed on GC anymore, or I'm sure she would "man up" and be here. Maybe instead of being rude, you could contact her directly, like was stated in an earlier post thumb If you are having trouble with having your questions answered, try rewording them. They might not be as clear as you think they are.

Agreed thumbs_up no need to be rude at all, maybe someone was just excited to get the news out to us grin
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:15 AM

it might be rude to you what I said but I dont think it is . If you dont like what someone said then dont answer
Posted By: kjgoulet

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:16 AM

Originally Posted By: vhenke11
it might be rude to you what I said but I dont think it is . If you dont like what someone said then dont answer

Wow.. Hold on a bit there, you sounded like you were being rude, usually when someone says "man up" it's meant as rude. If you don't like our replys then perhaps you should think about what you are saying and the ways it can be taken smile
Posted By: xoerikae

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:18 AM

i agree, it's not so much what you're saying, it's how you're saying it.
we all have lots of questions for peggy - i'm sure it's a bit overwhelming right now. give her a little time to get back to you.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:21 AM

I did but she doesnt really tell me much about it , and before she told me she wasnt worry about the calcium that it didnt need it and now , she made a new one with calcium I feel like she being double face frown I mean this was just 2 weeks ago when she said this to me . So why 2 weeks later I see she made new one with calcium ?? I just dont understand her thinking. And sorry not trying to be rude .
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:24 AM

We should all be very specific when referring to Wombaroo High Protein Supplement and call it by its entire name to avoid confusion with the new products Peggy has developed.

I believe using HPW as part of the name for a new product only magnifies the confusion that has come up lately over the various modifications that are being made to Peggy's original HPW Diet which was based on Wombaroo High Protein Supplement.

She recently asked me to stop suggesting that folks, who were concerned about the low calcium to phosphorus ration of the original HPW Diet, add additional calcium carbonate to the mix to raise the ratio to 2:1. Peggy has stated that she does not think the HPW Diet needs additional calcium. She has said she does not worry about ratios.

So now she has a product she calls HPW PLUS - which is said to be a new product made in the US and the product now has a 2:1 ratio. It is clear that at least part of her new formulation was to add calcium to the mix. In addition she has introduced yet another new product called HPW COMPLETE.

So was Peggy not concerned about her diet having a 0.96:1 ratio - but has formulated a new product that corrects something she was not concerned about?

In the future, if health issues are observed in someone's gliders and they are asked "what diet do you feed?" and they reply "HPW" We will need to play 20 questions on which HPW variety they are really feeding. HPW Original Recipe, HPW Original with added green juice, HPW Original with applesauce in place of part of the honey, HPW Original recipe with various amounts of green juice substituting for x amount of honey or water, HPW PLUS - with or without green juice, HPW COMPLETE - with or without green juice, Then there are all those personal "Modified HPW" recipes posted on individual breeder's web pages.

What happens when folks misunderstand that Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (that many folks simply call HPW Powder) is not the same as HPW PLUS or HPW COMPLETE? Just more confusion and possible use of the wrong product with the wrong HPW recipe.

How would we NOT be surprised at people being confused by the "HPW Diet?"

I am surprised Peggy has been able to keep the price close to that of Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. I actually would expect the price to be higher if she has found a company to do the commercial mixing and packaging of 2 new products with such a relatively small potential sales market. At least I hope these two products are being produced at a commercial facility equipped to safely produce food products.
Posted By: kjgoulet

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:27 AM

I just got a reply and was told that she will be trying to add more information as she can to the website to try and cover any questions that can and will be asked. Like what was said earlier there are clinical trials going on.

If you'd like to try it contact her for more information on the site above. I'm going to wait and see reactions of other people if they try it before I try it myself.
Posted By: Teresa56

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:29 AM

I am thrilled as a glider owner to know Peggy, she is more than just a glider breeder. She cares about all animals and would only want the best for any of our gliders. I dont think it is fair to attack anyone for any reason. Peggy is a kind and giving person. Give her the opportunity to answer your questions and concerns by contacting her directly.She even has her phone number on her site-- it could not be any easier to learn about her products. I think the golden rule needs to be posted here-- shame on people for treating other humans with so little respect. We should talk the way we would want to be spoken to....it is such a basic concept.
Posted By: kjgoulet

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:30 AM

Originally Posted By: vhenke11
I did but she doesnt really tell me much about it , and before she told me she wasnt worry about the calcium that it didnt need it and now , she made a new one with calcium I feel like she being double face frown I mean this was just 2 weeks ago when she said this to me . So why 2 weeks later I see she made new one with calcium ?? I just dont understand her thinking. And sorry not trying to be rude .

That's understandable smile it's always hard to tell online (or anything that isn't in person) how the person really meant it to be said.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:35 AM

I use Reep's Wambaroo Diet. aka Reep's diet. It contains Wambaroo High Protein Suppliment.

My understanding was that HPW Diet stood for High Protein Wambaroo Diet because it contained Wambaroo High Protein suppliment.

Wambaroo is a BRAND name. Not a generic ingrediant.

These new "HPW" diets do NOT contain Wambaroo so why use the same name?

I feel it is VERY misleading.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:36 AM

Yea agree , this why I wish she could be her I dont know why she was banned make me wonder tho lol . But why now she make it and told me before she didnt think it needed calcium , it just seem like it away to make money now . After so many people were worry about the calcium and Candy step up and help us with that then told her to stop telling us to do that , that it didnt need it and now she has made one ??? Just seem double face to me sorry just how I feel .
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Temulin
So I got a couple questions/concerns about the American HPW.

1.) Why the vegetable oil preserved with BHA/BHT? That wasn't in the original (at least not the one I have?). BHA/BHT is one of the ingredients I stay away from both in my food and in pet food. Isn't that bad for gliders?



I also have a big concern about using BHA and BHT as a chemical preservative in any food. Most all the studies I have read believe BHA and BHT in being linked to causing Cancer.There are other safe alternatives to preserve the food with, without having to worry about the possibility of it causing Cancer.

I never use any food for myself, family or pets that has BHA and BHT in it.

I have sent Peggy an email asking about the use of these chemicals and if she is aware of it? dunno
I am happy for Peggy just have some concerns with this.

Edited to add:
Peggy knows I think highly of her and respect her. As with anything new, I think it will take some future thoughts, work, and tweaking to make it even better.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:39 AM

Peggy is more than welcome to post here if she wishes.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:41 AM

Thank you owner ^_^ I think she should
Posted By: IowaMisty

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:46 AM

I agree we should not be doing any bashing. I would just urge people to always be cautious & ask questions, so you can be informed & comfortable with your food choices for your fur-kids. I'm interested in hearing about any responses any of you get from Peggy. I haven't had time to formulate an email to her or call her myself yet. I just learned about this tonight. I know nothing about BHA/BHT, but if it can cause cancer, I would definitely be interested in hearing her response about that.

Misty
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:47 AM

Quote:
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There will be NO name calling or bashing in this thread. If anyone cannot post as an adult, they will be removed from the thread and possibly give a little time off.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:55 AM

This seems like a mass produced diet, with the just add water. Where the heck did the funding come from for all of this, was there a silent backer who has the money that will come forward at a later time? Money for a study and to create and produce a whole new powder that has everything included. We all know us regular glider folks can't fund something this large, especially in this economy!!

I am not saying this is a bad diet or anything, just have a some questions like the others! Until I knew more about the results and such of this year long scientific study I would hold off switching diets, but thats just me.
Posted By: oakley

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:05 AM

I love the fact that people are trying to develop and research diets for sugar gliders. Only good can come from the continued pursuit of knowledge in this area, as well as many others.

I might have to try out Peggy's new formula. Although the HPW name is a little confusing, she really does have full right to the use of the acronym "HPW" because she developed the original diet which happened to use the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. After all, the glider community has had name confusion before (anyone still have trouble with the platinum mosaic/true platinum mosaic distinction?). Honestly, the name confusion should be the very least of anyone's concerns.

I'm excited about this new product, and I'm curious to see what it is like, and how well it will incorporate into the glider community as well as the current diets that are out there. I think we can all agree that it would be nice to have a product that we did not have to import. Perhaps this new formula will make a better diet out of the blended diet? Perhaps it will result in more research on the dietary needs of gliders? Perhaps it will spur debate that will ultimately lead to new innovation and knowledge? Perhaps it will ultimately be regarded as the best diet for gliders, perhaps it will be just a stepping stone for something better, perhaps it will be discovered that it is incomplete...

Any number of things could come of this, but NONE of those scenarios are bad ones... I'd MUCH rather see someone feed a new diet like this than exotic nutrition pellets.

So, KUDOS to Peggy for all of her dedication and investment into this project. thumb
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:08 AM

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
This seems like a mass produced diet, with the just add water. Where the heck did the funding come from for all of this, was there a silent backer who has the money that will come forward at a later time? Money for a study and to create and produce a whole new powder that has everything included. We all know us regular glider folks can't fund something this large, especially in this economy!!

I am not saying this is a bad diet or anything, just have a some questions like the others! Until I knew more about the results and such of this year long scientific study I would hold off switching diets, but thats just me.


I'm sorry Eddie, but I have to disagree with one question that you have about this.

I don't feel that its any of our business who or where the money came from to fund this kind of product. I'm just happy that there are some very responsible and willing people and/or organizations that have finally seen the need to to do more for glider diets. And I for one, could care less who funded it.

Yay Peggy! I know you have worked very hard on this and I applaud what you have done and can only see good things coming from this in regards to all the diets out there. This is a HUGE step in finding out what IS best for our babies!
Posted By: oakley

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:09 AM

Originally Posted By: Sherri
Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
This seems like a mass produced diet, with the just add water. Where the heck did the funding come from for all of this, was there a silent backer who has the money that will come forward at a later time? Money for a study and to create and produce a whole new powder that has everything included. We all know us regular glider folks can't fund something this large, especially in this economy!!

I am not saying this is a bad diet or anything, just have a some questions like the others! Until I knew more about the results and such of this year long scientific study I would hold off switching diets, but thats just me.


I'm sorry Eddie, but I have to disagree with one question that you have about this.

I don't feel that its any of our business who or where the money came from to fund this kind of product. I'm just happy that there are some very responsible and willing people and/or organizations that have finally seen the need to to do more for glider diets. And I for one, could care less who funded it.

Yay Peggy! I know you have worked very hard on this and I applaud what you have done and can only see good things coming from this in regards to all the diets out there. This is a HUGE step in finding out what IS best for our babies!



Sherri I couldn't agree more!
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:11 AM

I will be first to say, if this winds up being the best available diet we can feed to our gliders I am all for it. As with anything I may switch my animals or even products I use I research everything and want to know everything I can.

I do that with all my vitamins and supplements I take and if I do it for myself I do it for my pets also! By knowing where and who we can also check and see if any other products they produced had issues with cross contaminations and other issue with manufacturing that could pose a danger to our pets.
Posted By: valerie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:12 AM

i dont care what its called....it could just be called peggy's for all i care....i think its awesome that she made this.....i have never feed hpw before so i just have one question.....

how much of the hpw complete would i have to buy to last my 7 gliders a month?

i hope to just order once a month or every other month
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:20 AM

o wow that a lot of gliders . Ok Peggy just email me again hehe and I was wrong to say she was double face atleast I can meant when I am wrong >_< she broke it down for me why she did it and it make since to me now . I told her I will try it and I will I like that I dont have to cook anything . She still doesnt use calcium in hers but she want people to be worry free about their gliders and not worry about the calcium in the diet so their no bad fur bad health bad smell joey being rejected or eaten . or runny poop ^_^ ok so thank you I hope this will be a great diet then .
Posted By: valerie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 04:28 AM

yeah i just ordered 500g just to be sure....lol
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 05:09 AM

Oakley wrote:
Quote:
Perhaps this new formula will make a better diet out of the blended diet?


These new products should absolutely NOT be used in the Blended Diet as a replacement for Wombaroo High Protein Supplement.

Peggy has not yet shared the mg AMOUNTS of calcium and phosphorus in the new products, although she stated on LGG that she would get this information from the manufacturer. Use of either of these products would change the amounts of calcium, phosphorus, protein, fat, fiber, sugar in the Blended Diet if substituted for Wombaroo High Protein Supplement.
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:56 AM

I understand Candy's concern that people might mistake the diets and end up making up the recipe wrong recipe. This is going to sound harsh, but honestly, if you can't CAREFULLY read a recipe and distiguish it and it's name from the original HPW recipe...that's not Peggy's problem, it's whoever is messing up the recipe's fault.

It is ALWAYS said on here that it is up to each owner of gliders to READ AND RESEARCH these diets - it's our responsibility at the end of the day to make sure we're feeding the CORRECT diet with the CORRECT ingredients and amounts of those ingredients to our suggies. If someone is CARELESS, and to me that's exactly what they would be, enough to not read the directions thoroughly and make the recipe exactly as it's called for (which is also always said on here, to follow a recipe exactly as it's written or it throws off the recipe), that's the OWNER'S problem, not Peggy's. It is not hard for me to look at the original recipe, then look at the HPW Plus recipe and the HPW Complete recipe and see they have different names with different recipe make-ups. If I am careless enough to mess it up, that's MY fault for not reading carefully, not Peggy's fauly for naming it what she did.

I agree, the name should be among the least of our concerns. Peggy will happily provide the mg content as soon as she has it available for the Ca:P ratio.

And I also agree that it is absolutely nobody's business but Peggy's how all of this got funded. Like you said Eddie, it's one thing to want to know who the manufacturing company was so you can check and see if they've had good or bad issues in the past with other projects/products, but that has nothing to do with how this got paid for. That is something none of us has the right to ask or have answered.
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 09:48 AM

Wow I have alot to say here and very little time to say it as I need to head to work...ugh.

OK, here's my 2 cents worth: And this is not a "hey I am all for this diet" or "I am all against this diet" My response here is just meant to state some reality. This also has nothing to do with my feelings for Peggy. Or her standing in the "community," Or where the money came from.

Name problem? coke, coke classic, diet coke, coke zero, blah blah blah.

I dont think there is a problem with the name. There is HPW, HPW Plus, HPW Complete. Not hard to understand. I can see where some could be confused, and we are all concerned about that. But we need to realize there are alot of things in the world that we should be concerned about, but doesnt "each day have enough troubles of its own"? We can worry about everyone else under the sun, but we cannot change any of it, only try to change our little section of it. So we educate as many as we can and pray for the best.

As for some of the other comments like, contamination, she's out to make money, etc etc. No one is twisting any one's arm to buy and use this diet.

Do you realize how much contamination is in the foods we eat everyday? Did you know the FDA (and other government organizations in charge of those things) allows a certain amount of sewage waste in your city water? Bug parts in your chips, rat droppings and chopped frogs in your frozen veggies?

As for making money. God bless her. I hope she makes a ton of it. For example: so many of us make and sell products, dont we all want to make money? If you say you are sewing pouches and selling them to NOT make money, then why aren't you selling them for the cost of the material only? I would like to see all of us making money, then maybe we can all pool our money and do more research and figure out a way to bottle the diet gliders eat in the wild so none of us have diet worries.

Is this diet good or bad? Only time will tell. I repeat what Jessica (angelic) said when she stated it is the responsibility of each owner to research diets for themselves and if it turns out to be bad, it is no ones fault other than their own.

Look at the pet food industry. You have cat food makers swearing vets say their bagged food is the best. Organic/grain free makers swear theirs is the best, the raw food advocates swear their way is best. Add to that one cat thrives on friskies, and another looses all his hair on it and needs a raw meat diet.

There are just too many variables for one person to be responsible for all the gliders out there. Then add to that the fact some glider owners feed treats and others dont. Oh so lets blame Peggy because I gave my glider too many tastes of my meal when eating out and it got sick. Silliness.

Buy it or dont buy it. But it is silly to attack the creator of the diet. I feed my own diet. If someone else uses it, and their gliders dont flourish, that isnt my fault either. While I fully understand the (affectionately called) "cow mentality" that we follow what others do, and if someone has had gliders a long time and is well respected in the community, others will follow their lead, when it comes to glider care, especially diet, people really need to make their own educated decisions. Cant do the research? As Jess said, dont own the pet. Learn from others? Sure! But that knowledge needs to be applied in a practical sense to be considered wisdom.

When I first got gliders, I fed BML. As it had all the ingredients I could obtain easily. But I had researched gliders for 3 years before getting them, and something insided me had an issue with BML. And then I learned more, and adjusted, then 6 months later, the same again.

We never stop learning, and we shouldnt stop wanting to learn. I want to try this and see if my gliders like it, see if I notice any changes in them.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 09:58 AM

tounge
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:30 AM

:bb:
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:16 PM

for years people complain about all the commercial diets, this is one, that the glider community at the minimum has had a chance to watch evolve, I can assure you, in peggy's words, she is not a nutritionist, she is not a scientist, she does however, know what she wants to accomplish, and has been offered the resources to do so.. by utilizing those resources, nutritionist, scientists etc.. and this has been in the testing process and not paid by the community as a whole.

Eddie there are some great people out there with the resources, financial and otherwise to help accomplish many things in this community, everyone doesn't need to know who they are or what it is they contribute.

Those with the VCA knows this to be a fact, as there are many donors who doesn't wish their contributions be known.

I watch many diets get slammed talked down about and totally misrepresented, without people even knowing anything about them.

Misty, I am sorry you feel that honey can not be dehydrated without losing the nutrients, I can reassure you that it is possible and has been done.

as for the complete diet. Peggy , I believe has taken the things she wanted to see changed and made the changes, based on nutritional info
She has listened and heard the community concerns and worked hard on addressing them.

this is more than I have seen with another diet here.

peggy is offering an alternative diet. what people choose to do with that is their choice, they can buy it, they can not buy it, the choice ultimately is up to the individual owner.

the fact is, she is not going to go away, the glider community is merely a cup of sand in the sahara desert, and that cup will not stop forward attempts at progress, in fact it makes for more determination to get more things accomplished.

Peggy Kudos to you, good luck with this new venture, and I hope this diet works out really well for the gliders out there.

Quote:
Until I knew more about the results and such of this year long scientific study I would hold off switching diets, but thats just me.


I have never heard anyone tell someone not to try all these new variations, combo diets etc.. because studies were not done, is there a reason why peggys diet was singled out for that.


Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 03:55 PM

Amen, B - I am with you laugh

I will say pretty much the same here as I said on LGG:

For those who think this came up recently or "after Celeste and the powdered egg issue" or who believe this was "Stealing a similar idea by Sweet Sugar Gliders" I can VOUCH for the fact that Peggy has been working on this a LONG time. I've been dying for the reveal! grin

For those concerned with the NAME of the diet: I am a PEPSI girl myself, but some places I go, I still tell them I want a COKE and they ASK "what kind of Coke?" so those folks need to get OVER the name... you want to fix that? Here ya go:

--HPW Classic (W.H.P.S. plus eggs, water, honey, & bee pollen)
--HPW Plus ("Peggy's Powder" PLUS eggs, water, honey, & bee pollen
--HPW Complete ("Peggy's Powder" COMPLETE WITH the eggs, water, honey, & bee pollen already IN it, PLUS add water only to finish it before serving)


Wow. I just fixed it - took all of 1/2 a second. No need to argue over semantics, people. I mean - like Peggy said on LGG - how do *we* know HPW doesn't stand for Here's Peggy's Way? roflmao the ORIGINAL may be "commonly known" as the HPW Diet but it is really "The W.H.P.S. Diet Plan"

For those arguing about it because they don't like Peggy: Get a grip, folks - Some of you don't like Obama but you still live in the country he runs... some of you don't like big conglomerates taking over America but you still use Bank of America and shop at Wal-Mart. You don't have to like the inventor to enjoy the product. Maybe I don't like Alexander Graham Bell - but I am still going to call my Momma once in awhile. smile

For those concerned that Peggy is not posting on GC or GG: GC & GG members are welcome to email Peggy or post to her on one of the other MANY boards she DOES frequent. If someone has questions, they should take them to the person who can provide ANSWERS - that person should not have to come to them. If I want to know what's in my shampoo, I don't sit around and wait for Aussie to come to me - I contact the company myself.

For those who just want to create drama and issues: feed it if you want to - recommend it if you like it - but "don't knock it til you try it," as my grandma used to say... she also used to say" if more people grew up and acted like adults the world would be a much more pleasant place to live" and in this case, if more people approached issues like this (ones they felt passionately about) like mature adults, the boards would be a better place to get good information... just sayin'... ('cuz I have surely been guilty a time or two of letting my resentment or anger get the best of me on the boards - it doesn't pay folks - trust me on this one). wink

Anyway, Peggy did a great job and worked really hard for this. I can VOUCH for how great her stuff is and how wonderful her gliders are. I cannot WAIT to go get some HPW complete! dance
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 05:40 PM

I am interested in the "clinical" trials that are being done and the details about those because there has been so very little (barely any) clinical trials about anything related to sugar gliders.

Yes, I feel the name is misleading. Just as Bourbon gets irritated when someone says they are feeding BML yet they have done alterations to it. It is no longer BML. Since this does NOT have Wambaroo in it, I feel the name should be something entirely different.

Also, funding could be an issue for me if Virgil Klunder is providing the funding for all this. I will NOT support him or any of his "investments" and I do know that Peggy is or has been working with him in the past.

But I think that if full disclosure is made as to the funding and the "clinical" studies and such, and it does all "prove out" as healthy, I think it is great. Lord knows I have a difficult time getting Wambaroo unless I order it from Geoff. Having a US made product would be great.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:16 PM

Don't you just love how people like to speculate on something they have no clue about? Who cares what it's called, if it's good, or even better for our Gliders, then I'm all for it. Not to mention it will be easier to make smile Whether Virgil K has anything to do with it or not(I'll say not) the proof is in the results and quality of the product being offered.

What if Virgil K opted to purchase large quantities to sell with his Gliders? Would that make her a bad person? Absolutly NOT. There would many more healthy Gliders out there smile

I am waiting for my first order to arrive. My wife( A top notch Vet) will be conducting her own "Clinical Survey" with our 13 Gliders(and along with many of my local Glider friends).

It's nice having a choice in our Gliders diet. Congrats to ALL that attempt to make our Gliders life much better.

Peggy RULES!!!!!!! smile
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:24 PM

I don't feed HPW, have no desire to feed HPW. I have my own issues with it. HOWEVER... I really couldn't give a rip who gave Peggy all the money to do this.

Really, there are products you and I use daily that I HATE it's source. But, I have no choice but to use it.

Like GliderGuyVA said, as long as good, or the best, for the gliders, that's ALL that should matter.

GliderGuy, could you share with us the result of your independent studies? I'm very curious.
Posted By: Temulin

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:26 PM

I am also of the neutral stance at this point. The question for me is that it's a new diet - it could be good, it could not, but I'd like to watch how the feedback and clinical trials start sounding before I switch or mess with a good thing. There are also ingredients that I have concerns with at this point - the BHA/BHT is pretty high up on my list of "do not eat" foods for me and the pets. I believe it's used in HPW Plus and Complete as an antioxidant to prevent the vegetable oil from spoiling (I'm not sure why vegetable oil is used in the new powder either - seems like added fat that isn't necessary).

I am interested to see who has success with it though. I do feel the name is a little misleading because when I first saw it I thought it was just the American equivalent of the old HPW, but the ingredients are different from the one I usually order.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:33 PM

I will share the info if the Admins will allow me too smile The reason I say this is that it will be her info and not mine. She is not a member here nor will she be. Reguardless it will take some time to test and compile all the info so hang in there.

From what I have read, and what I have discussed with Peggy, it looks to be an awesome product and my wife approves so far. This is not something she just invented overnite. She has been hard at it developing, testing, and working with the manufactuers and Vets on developing this product. It's off to a great start so far and I am sure it will benefit our Gliders.

Robert
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 06:43 PM

I spoke to Peggy recently and she dropped several clues that she was working on a HUGE change with HPW. I was excited to see it.

Now that I see it, I'm fairly impressed that she's had the ability to do this. I don't care, as I stated earlier, who funded what. It's been done, and it's been done for the BENEFIT of gliders.

Isn't that what we all want!?

Robert, if for whatever reason GC doesn't allow your info posted here, I'd love if you can contact me privately; via my website is fine.

I like to stay up to date on diet info and findings. I have too many inquiries coming to me daily, especially about diet, to give an 'I dunno' answer. Thanks. hug2
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 07:15 PM

Go to LGG and look at the FAQ site she posted. It will enlighten you a bit. It may also be posted at SGN or other sites. Hopefully it will get posted here as well.

Megs - I will do my best to keep you informed.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 07:33 PM

http://www.hpwplus.com/
Posted By: meri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 07:41 PM

Keep us all informed; please, gliderguy!

I am not inferring who is funding research; I have never spoken to Peggy; but I will say that it often does matter who funds the research. Studies can be set up in a way to favor a person's interests much like statistics can; plus you have flexibility on what statistics to publish at the end as well.

Ideally this study will be published and peer reviewed. If it is redone by another group with the same results; well; then that gets VERY interesting! Now you have soemthing that might be worth trusting (this is why "studies" in popular magazines should not be trusted; they are just individual studies; no scientist would accept what they find as fact - they would want it peer reviewed and repeated) Its hard when we are lucky to get one study to feel confident about any info we get frown It will be interesting info; but make sure to give it the weight it deserves.
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 07:47 PM

I have no clue who is funding her diet, I do know of 5 people who have the means and resources to do it outside of klunder. there is more investors available than just him, who is to say he didn't hook her up with a philanthropist ?? I also know she is selling her book, and stated some of that money would go to research.. how do we know she isn't funding this herself? after all, in the previous study, most of the money went to the vets, she has her own, she hasn't ask the community as a whole to pay for this.

T , I am really surprised at that statement.. especially after everything you and I went through with the rescue projects. since when does who a person is, make a difference when it comes to the gliders betterment? we took in arch enemies and had them working together with only the glider in mind..(well we had hoped so anyway),

I hear people screaming that virgil isn't making any changes and diet was one of the issues.. I think peggy should if she hasn't already, approach klunder with a business proposition to feed her diet...so hypothetically, if he feeds peggys diet, isn't that one change everyone was screaming about? what I see is a bunch of people looking for reasons, grabbing straws, as to why not support the diet, advancements, etc.. even pulling in POSSIBLE funders as if it were a wooden spoon, just to stir the pot.

so as with the diet, you can choose to feed or not. you can choose to support peggys diet or her or not.. but quit making excuses and either do or not.

to be honest t, she doesn't have to disclose anything to anyone for any reason, she will respond to what she wants.and she surely isn't obligated to ease a few minds regarding the finances of her personal life...

at some point the questions need to be.. what is needed.. i have lots of questions i would like the answers to, but guess what.. it isn't my business. I get the answers I NEED, not always what I want.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 07:58 PM

Originally Posted By: GliderGuyVA
I will share the info if the Admins will allow me too smile The reason I say this is that it will be her info and not mine. She is not a member here nor will she be. Reguardless it will take some time to test and compile all the info so hang in there.
Robert


I posted on LGG and I will post here. Peggy is more than welcome to post on GliderCENTRAL if she wishes to do so. She is a member here just like you are. The decision to post or not is entirely hers.
Posted By: finnessa

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:09 PM

Karen I think he meant his wife lol
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:10 PM

Bourbon, just as I will not help sell gliders for Klunder, I will not support anything else he does or has his hands into, such as the ASVG and the request I got to help write articles for there. I can not and will not support mill breeders or brokers or anyone else that DOES support them.

As I said, I am very interested in the clinical studies and such because so few have been done on gliders and that can only help the gliders (either by proving or disproving what is being studied).

If this indeed does "pan out" as a healthy alternative, FANTASTIC. If any mill breeder/broker has their hands in it, I won't support it.
Posted By: Bourbon

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:21 PM

Quote:

As I said, I am very interested in the clinical studies and such because so few have been done on gliders and that can only help the gliders (either by proving or disproving what is being studied).


contingent on who pays for the studies???? LOL, is contingent on whether or not to prove or disprove..



Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:23 PM

I can read the studies without buying and financially supporting mill breeders/brokers.

And yes, who pays for the studies does matter as was stated as those results can be biased. That is why "independent" studies are recommended.
Posted By: xoerikae

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:27 PM

Quote:
I hear people screaming that virgil isn't making any changes and diet was one of the issues.. I think peggy should if she hasn't already, approach klunder with a business proposition to feed her diet...so hypothetically, if he feeds peggys diet, isn't that one change everyone was screaming about? what I see is a bunch of people looking for reasons, grabbing straws, as to why not support the diet, advancements, etc.. even pulling in POSSIBLE funders as if it were a wooden spoon, just to stir the pot.


I do agree with this. It makes me happy that those who find themselves roped in by PPP might have one better option then they did originally.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:34 PM

Originally Posted By: finnessa
Karen I think he meant his wife lol


Thank you for the clarification.
Posted By: oakley

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 08:36 PM

I just ordered my sample. I'm excited to get my hands on the stuff and see what it's like!
Posted By: IowaMisty

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 09:05 PM

I don't know if I missed a few posts or what, but I just wanted to clarify. In no way was I implying with my earlier post that Peggy stole any ideas from Sweet Sugar Gliders (me). I said that we had a similar idea and there were some reasons we didn't pursue it. We never told anyone about our idea, so we would not be accusing anyone of stealing it from us. I think it's great that Peggy is trying to do something for the betterment of the gliders. I just have some questions & reservations at this point. I'm going to try to email her some questions tonight if I can get a few minutes after work before I have to head out again. As with any new thing, I think it's important we don't just blindly jump on the bandwagon. We have to learn what we can about it & make sure we are comfortable with offering it to our babies. If it's a good product, you'll probably see us offering it in our store. But for now, I have questions.

Misty
Posted By: meri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:05 PM

You know; I will say this; if they publish it in a peer reviewed journal; that would give the study alot of clout in my book. This would mean they are being on the up and up as much as they can. It means they are opening their study to the critique of others in their field. They cannot control if anyone else will decide to repeat it; but they will have at least done all they can. People who do bogus studies would not put themselves through that. Oh, and, obviously; legitimate scientists would LOVE to have their work published somewhere that others in their field see it; its like a free advertisement for them and their work.

That being said; I do not know how funding for that works. I have never been on the funding end of research (lol) meaning it may be extra expense to publish? But maybe not.

I bet if they are going through all of this expense they WILL publish it in a peer reviewed journal. I look forward to seeing what they get! Does anyone know details; like were they comparing against a different glider food?
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:05 PM

The product and it's ingredients are sound. Way more than any other product that has been offered in the past. It's true, she does not have to disclose certain information, but as time goes on I am sure it will be made public to some degree. She, and some associates, are studying the results as will I and many other people that use it. I am in a better position than most as I live with a real Vet/molecular biologist/ and teacher of Vet medicine(my wife). It will be a small study and only one interpetation but it will be done in a professional mannor.

You all have the right to be skeptical and I can understand the skeptism to a point. As far as her having anything to do with VK and the creation of this product is totally untrue to the best of my knowledge. Anything that will help better a Gliders well being is far better than problems you may have with a certain person. So for sake of the Gliders please remove VK from your biased minds and look at the big picture here.
I may be one of the people contributing financial backing to this endeavor but I'm not going to tell you. Frankly it's no ones business. Let the product stand up for itself and in due time all will be clear.

PS. There is NO conspiracy going on here. Just plain hard work and love of Sugar Gliders.

Thanks,
Robert
Posted By: meri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:08 PM

IT is nice that one diet is starting the process of being tested. It is expensive! Kudos to any do-gooder who is funding this!
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:36 PM

Ok I posted my questions to Peggy on SGN so I can get a direct answer from here I just want some people to consider these too. I might have overlooked but I don't think a straight out answer was made about these:
1) Who is manufacturing the product I understand its a USA company but what company.
2) Is this company regulated by the FDA, in many ways your packaging vitamins and nutrition for consumption how is the company regulated to make sure they are being sanitary.
3) I'm getting the impression that the manufacture sends this product to you in large quantities and you repackage and distribute it? Is this correct?
4)What was wrong with the original HPW why start from scratch and create a whole new diet why not modify the vitamin and calcium intact on HPW diet to make it more balanced than it was .
Originally Posted By: "HPW Plus"
Working on improving the diet for Sugar Gliders for years, Peggy Brewer reached out and worked with a team of some of the best Nutritionists/Chemists & Veterinarians in their fields. Two New Products were Created:


5)How many vets and nutritionist? Can we be given some names of both.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:50 PM

Number 4 is answered on her FAQ page.

Number 1 is too but I doubt that is the answer you are looking for.
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 10:57 PM

See, Lauren's questions about the DIET itself are all valid and objective. Those questions deserve answers, and I am confident that Peggy will provide those answers as soon as she can.

Asking about who funded it because of personal reasons (dislike of one of the possible funders, who I highly doubt is involved) is another arena. Those are PERSONAL issues. Issues that have absolutely nothing to do with the diet itself. I am standing firm that it is absolutely positively nobody's business who funded this project. If you have hesitations about the funding and that, OF ALL THINGS, is really bothering you....simple solution....don't feed the diet. No skin off anyone's back. Peggy doesn't owe anyone any explanations about her personal finances. That's just plain ridiculous.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 11:17 PM

i would of tried this diet but for one very important
reason i will not touch it.
bht and bha are both carcinogenic and the state of ca has it listed as a carcinogenic. these preservatives cause cancer folks, you want to feed this to your pets?
both bha and bht are being taken out of our foods because
of the cancer risk.

if another safe preservative could be used i and many others
would prob. try it.

i will stick with the suncoast diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
i would of tried this diet but for one very important
reason i will not touch it.
bht and bha are both carcinogenic and the state of ca has it listed as a carcinogenic. these preservatives cause cancer folks, you want to feed this to your pets?
both bha and bht are being taken out of our foods because
of the cancer risk.

if another safe preservative could be used i and many others
would prob. try it.

i will stick with the suncoast diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit


Good points. wonder why it was used...
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 11:50 PM

Originally Posted By: MizValorie
Number 4 is answered on her FAQ page.

Number 1 is too but I doubt that is the answer you are looking for.

Number 4 maybe seeing as I've quoted directly from her FAQ page but its not really addressed why modifying the old HPW isn't workable except that its becoming a bit more difficult to get ahold of lately.

Number 1, nope not answered I want a name of the company I don't think thats asking too much, fair considering these are our PETS not my rosebush food (however even that I would want to know where it was made)

Would I like to know how Peggy funded this? Sure .. do I think I deserve and answer nope.. But I do think its a bit irresponsible for anyone to buy this and plop it into our gliders dishes without asking a couple who what when where and whys?
Posted By: xoerikae

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 11:57 PM

While I would like to know who funded it, I don't feel right asking. What's the worst answer? PPP? Then assume it is them - what would your reaction be? If you don't want to use it, just don't. Company, again, I would like to know... but idk, I never researched the factory the Wambaroo powder was made in.

The way I see it, the old HPW is still fine. Make sure your fruit and veggies are straight, and as long as you don't mind the occasional delay in shipping or fluctuation in prices, you're good to go. This is just another option. A different one.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 02/28/11 11:59 PM

I want to make it clear I'm not attacking Peggy I think she has put a lot of hard work I just haven't made an opinion yet and would like to.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 01:14 AM

I am a new owner, currently using BML because that's what the little one's are used to. I think I am going to try using Peggie's Complete along with a lot of fresh fruit veggies and some mealworms, see how it goes, and report back to the community!
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 02:16 AM

What do you expect from CA? Tree huggers and hippies galore there. Just kidding smile Anyhow, BHT and BHA are used in sooooo many things that all of us consume on a daily basis(mainly used to preserve oil/fatty food stuffs). That being said, is it bad for you? Well, yes, but the amounts are so minute that even the FDA sees it as a no issue. You would be surprised to know what it's used in and in this case it is only used in the vege oil that is used for the product. It is not used to preserve the product as a whole. Heck, having the Calcium/phophorous off due to improper mixing or the Glider not eating all the right stuff is more detrimental than what's in the the product.

I'm not saying BHT or BHA is good for you or your Gliders but in such small amounts it should not be a problem. Don't jump the gun too much people.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 02:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Originally Posted By: MizValorie
Number 4 is answered on her FAQ page.

Number 1 is too but I doubt that is the answer you are looking for.

Number 4 maybe seeing as I've quoted directly from her FAQ page but its not really addressed why modifying the old HPW isn't workable except that its becoming a bit more difficult to get ahold of lately.

Number 1, nope not answered I want a name of the company I don't think thats asking too much, fair considering these are our PETS not my rosebush food (however even that I would want to know where it was made)

Would I like to know how Peggy funded this? Sure .. do I think I deserve and answer nope.. But I do think its a bit irresponsible for anyone to buy this and plop it into our gliders dishes without asking a couple who what when where and whys?


Just pointing it out, to possibly give you an answer smile
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 02:30 AM

No problem Val thanks for making your best go, its hard because Peggy isn't here that is her personal choice but this thread is here on GC for anyone to see so we have to keep on without. Peggy has told me on SGN she won't name her manufacture til her studies are done. I'm personally happy with my diet so I won't be switching anytime soon.

But I have to say this deeply bothers me. Of course just like I am entitled to my opinions everyone else has their own rights to theirs and their choices on what to feed their gliders. But I don't see why this should be being sold already and wholesales arranged.. Talk about putting the cart before.. well you know! How long has Peggy tested this out why sell it without naming who's MAKING it, because she wants to do studies first? Well why sell it before the studies are done if its that important. But I'm not a buyer so I guess its not my right to know and anyone buying it doesn't know who's making what they are shoveling into their glider's cages THIS WEEK..
Posted By: Guerita135

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 02:33 AM

I'm happyto see that changes have finally been maade to the hpw diet to make it better for gliders. Although, only time will tell if it is truelly a good diet for gliders.

I, too, am concerned about Virgil's potential involvement, however... Not so much about if he FUNDED it, but rather if he is going to be PROFITING from it. If he funded it to help develop a better diet for gliders, then I'm all for it. However, if he did it simply as a business move so he can profit from the sales THEN I have a problem because that would mean that those here that buy the product would be putting money in Virgil's hands every time they go to buy more "HPW" for their furbabies. :/
Posted By: xoerikae

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 03:01 AM

Then again - this will sound off, but still - I would rather Virgil make a couple extra dollars and those poor bebbies get something better then pellets.
I'm happy that she's testing it to this length. As far as I know, no one else has yet. She started selling right about the same time the other diets did - BUT she wants to continue and do FURTHER trials PAST what the diets we feed now have done.
Posted By: Dee

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 03:13 AM

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
i would of tried this diet but for one very important
reason i will not touch it.
bht and bha are both carcinogenic and the state of ca has it listed as a carcinogenic. these preservatives cause cancer folks, you want to feed this to your pets?
both bha and bht are being taken out of our foods because
of the cancer risk.

if another safe preservative could be used i and many others
would prob. try it.

i will stick with the suncoast diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit


I am not sure if you guys are aware of this....What the 5% labelling loophole says

If the amount of an ingredient in a food is less than 5% of the food (such as 4.5 per cent sunflower oil added to soymilk), a food additive (such as antioxidant TBHQ, 319) in that ingredient does not have to be included in the ingredients list on the label unless the food additive is performing a technological function in the final food. Who decides is the additive is performing a technological function? The food manufacturers. What if consumption of the unlisted food additive can affect consumers? Too bad.

I have also found that if a manufacture of the food items and such has ingredients shipped them to include in the total production of kibble pellet whatever. The said shipped ingredient may have it in there but the new manufacturer does not have to claim it.

Also when I was concerned about this myself I was informed the FDA actually does not over see animal food.
Posted By: Teresa56

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 03:25 AM

Is there any other glider diet out there that is on the "recommended diet" list that has any kind of studies behind them? When you add baby food, apple juice, yogurt, chicken etc to make a diet do you care where the chicken was raised and under what conditions? Do we assume that if baby food is good for babies it is good for gliders too? Where are the studies to support any of these diets are any better or any worse than the HPW Plus or HPW Complete? Has anyone ever asked where the powder that is imported from Australia is manufactured or who funded the studies behind it? It is hard for me as a new glider owner to understand all this drama over 2 new products hitting the market. Like anything else, you buy it or you don't. If I want to feed it to my gliders it is no different than the decision I make to let my cats and gliders together via tent time. They are my animals and they are my responsibility so the decisions I make are not for you to judge.Be happy someone is trying to do some good and took the first step towards getting a product made here in America.My babies love the HPW Plus and I am happy to support Peggy and her products.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 03:27 AM

Actually it does Dee, it over see's animal food and livestock feed. It doesn't HAVE to by a rule of anyone who manufactures animal food but yes it does over see it and I personally would like to know what guarantee's are given to insure that this is safe?
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:16 AM

Also when I was concerned about this myself I was informed the FDA actually does not over see animal food.


Actually the FDA does over see animal food coming into the usa. I know this from having wombaroo shipped into the usa. It is actually over seen by both countries the originating one and the one recieving it.
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:18 AM

i do care where the chickens and all the food my family and
animals eat. the preservatives and the chemicals that are in our foods for babies up to adults has caused an increase in all kinds of diseases in our young children that used to
be adult problems.

so i do care abt. the bht and the bha in this new diet.
so what if it is minuscle so are our gliders.

i say once again can a healthier additive like lecithin be
used? since it is still being studied maybe they can tweak
it a little more.

regards,
organic-nancy in detroit
p.s. the fda? they are a joke.
Posted By: Dee

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:29 AM

Just FYI this is off the FDA site:

Pet food, including dry and canned food and pet treats, is considered to be animal feed. Like other animal feed, FDA regulates pet food and establishes standards for labeling.

Pet food labeling is regulated at two levels: federal and state. The federal regulations, enforced by FDA’s Center for Veterinary Medicine, establish standards that apply to all animal feeds:

proper identification of the product
net quantity statement
manufacturer’s address
proper listing of ingredients
Some states also enforce their own labeling regulations. Many of these follow the model pet food regulations of the Association of American Feed Control Officials (AAFCO), a non-government advisory body with representative regulatory officials from all the states. These model regulations are more specific than federal regulations, covering aspects of labeling such as product name, nutritional adequacy statement, feeding directions, and calorie statements.

FDA carries out its animal feed regulatory responsibilities in cooperation with state and local partners, and works together with AAFCO on uniform feed ingredient definitions and proper labeling.
Posted By: tammyangel

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:36 AM

http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/Products/AnimalFoodFeeds/PetFood/UCM2006475

This is the fda site on animal food and feeds. They do regulate all things animal and human.



The FDA’s regulation of pet food is similar to that for other animal foods. The Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act (FFDCA) requires that all animal foods, like human foods, be safe to eat, produced under sanitary conditions, contain no harmful substances, and be truthfully labeled. In addition, canned pet foods must be processed in conformance with the low acid canned food regulations to ensure the pet food is free of viable microorganisms, see Title 21 Code of Federal Regulations, Part 113 (21 CFR 113).
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:37 AM

Dog and Cat food company's are required by law now to put the chemicals they use on the labels. That law was passed last year or the year before. BHA also know as Butylated Hydroxyanisole, BHT also known as Butylated Hydroxytoluene and Ethoxyquin are used in Cheaper dog and cat food company's. Holistic dog and cat food company's do not use any of these chemicals in their food.

You can do a search online about these chemicals. Just type in What are BHA, BHT, and Ethoxyquin? You can also call places to get more info and make a decision for yourself weather you are comfortable with these chemicals.

It is true that these chemicals are used in people food too. I read labels all the time due to this and the fact that I have a daughter with food allergies. Most of all my label knowledge came from my daughters food problems. I had to spend countless hours researching food for her and what she could eat that would not hurt her. Labels is one thing I know. The first 3 to 5 ingredients listed is what the product is mostly made up of. I am not starting anything here just wanting to clarify that the better dog and cat food company's do not use these chemicals because they too know how bad they can be. Just like with people food, that is why we have organic company's out there now, cause no one wants to eat the bad if they can help it.

(I have already spoken with Peggy and know that she is on top of this, and I am still a fan of hers smile )
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:40 AM

I really didn't care so much about "fda" as I did just having some answer on what insures that this food is safe?
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:48 AM

As I said earlier, if this winds up being the best diet for gliders I am all for it. I am not taking any personal issues against anyone here. I applaud Peggy for putting the work in for diet research that many have not, including myself.

*If* Virgil (and I star the if so people can see I am saying if and not that he is) is the backer and this is the best diet I would suck it up. There are many things produced in this world by orgs that we don't like and we accept it. It's up to the individual to choose what the will or will not spend their money on.

I can only say that *IF* he is, I feel it would be the best move to come forward and be up font now about it, cause if not it could blow up down the road leaving a bad taste in peoples mouths and many may feel used and that things weren't honest and up front.

Enough about that though, and thats all I have to say about that.

I don't read or go to other boards so I have not seen all the answers, but it seems that the pitch being given about this diet is that it's been research and data has been collected, yet it hasn't been made public. 99% of our current diets have had no true scientific studies done, so we had no data and moved to such diets in hope that we were doing whats best for our gliders.

If I was being told that there is research and data for a diet I would darn sure want to see that data and research up font before I switched since there is some data. Yes the data is not a tell all since it's as of now has only been a short term study (meaning it only has a years worth of data) and as the years progress more will be added to the data.

Now earlier I said 99% of our current diet options don't have and scientific studies done. The other 1% would be the BML diet. Since I have come into the glider community I have seen it asked more times than I can remember for the scientific research and data to be produced, but I have yet to see it. I have only seen Dr. Bruce Ross's charts. So Teresa56, the BML is the only one that has been said to have any type of study to it but I am not the one to answer the results. (edited to say Sun Coast may have data I forget)

I hope all ingredients will be listed, not just whats required by law I can only hope that Peggy a member of the community and glider lover would release all ingredients so it's public knowledge and not just whats required by law. If I was gona put my full faith into this diet I would want to know everything thats in it.

Yes, we don't always know every single thing that goes into our day to day stuff, but that's because those companies are only worried about making $ and could really care less about us. But if we knew all of whats been used it can help ease the minds and questions many may have. Yes certain chemicals and stuff is brushed off because it would take loads of exposure before anything can happen, but thats in humans not animals who weigh in grams.

Again, I am not bashing anyone nor the diet I applaud Peggy for what she has already done and hope that this may start to bridge the gap of the unknowns we have for our gliders diets.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 05:00 AM

I agree Eddie fully.. If this ends up being the cats meow GREAT!!! But I think I have a right in knowing whats in the cats meow? Currently I'm feeding a glider that I know every vitamin by measurement in whats going into my gliders. I do the same research with my cats and puppy.
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 06:54 AM

Again, if you're not satisfied by the number of ingredients being released in the diet, simple, DON'T feed the diet. Stick to whatever diet you're currently feeding and that way you'll be comfortable with it. This is Peggy's product and she is releasing what she feels is neccessary about that product. I for one trust Peggy's ability to have done her research well enough and to have worked with the right people on this that I will be giving the diet a try. However, that's me and what I'm comfortable with. Peggy can release whatever and however much she wants, and those of us who want to try the diet, will. Those of us who don't feel comfortable with the amount of information given, don't have to try the diet. People not being comfortable with not knowing every ingredient don't have to try the diet and can stick with whatever they're presently using.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 07:19 AM

Yes everyone has the choice to either to use or not to use. I don't accept things for being facts or that something is great cause I was only told what is felt as necessary.

Over the years I have seen things being told as fact when in fact it's not. Years ago there was group that did what they were told or what they thought was the right thing cause they didn't ask the questions and every time someone said they heard a new noise from their glider they were immediately told to put the glider in a collar. Most of the time there was no need for the collar from what I was told.

Now I see people say its cruel and such to have one glider cause they been told what someone or a group of people felt was necessary and how things should be, but that is also not always true. People say the bigger the cage the better, why? Cause thats what they been told, but that's not always the case. Ask them why they say that, they will say cause thats what I was told. Each glider reacts differently to the size of cage, how much is in the cage, etc. I have seen were bigger caused just as much stress than smaller.

We have more fictions in the glider world than actual facts, and a lot of that is due to someone or a group of people only telling, showing, or teaching what they feel is necessary and avoiding questions that in many case can be real important.

I for one would never just take a well this is what I feel is necessary for you to know and thats that, otherwise we would all be walking around more brainwashed than we already are.
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:08 AM

Eddie, thumb well said
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:30 AM

Originally Posted By: meri
it often does matter who funds the research. Studies can be set up in a way to favor a person's interests much like statistics can; plus you have flexibility on what statistics to publish at the end as well.

Ideally this study will be published and peer reviewed. If it is redone by another group with the same results; well; then that gets VERY interesting!



Looking at it, it makes so much more sense to me as to why it matters. I didn't look at it from that aspect. roflmao



Originally Posted By: Bourbon


I hear people screaming that virgil isn't making any changes and diet was one of the issues.. I think peggy should if she hasn't already, approach klunder with a business proposition to feed her diet...so hypothetically, if he feeds peggys diet, isn't that one change everyone was screaming about? what I see is a bunch of people looking for reasons, grabbing straws, as to why not support the diet, advancements, etc.. even pulling in POSSIBLE funders as if it were a wooden spoon, just to stir the pot.


at some point the questions need to be.. what is needed.. i have lots of questions i would like the answers to, but guess what.. it isn't my business. I get the answers I NEED, not always what I want.



This is how I feel. Being as how Peggy and Klunder are closer than we will ever be with him, she has a foot ahead of us in the aspect that she can do just as you said, Bourbon. Approach him with a business offer of sorts. Not only will she benefit financially, but the gliders being sold will be a step closer to the care we all feel they need.



Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
i would of tried this diet but for one very important
reason i will not touch it.
bht and bha are both carcinogenic and the state of ca has it listed as a carcinogenic. these preservatives cause cancer folks, you want to feed this to your pets?
both bha and bht are being taken out of our foods because
of the cancer risk.

if another safe preservative could be used i and many others
would prob. try it.

i will stick with the suncoast diet.

regards,
nancy in detroit

GREAT post Nancy. I agree 100%


Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
How long has Peggy tested this out why sell it without naming who's MAKING it, because she wants to do studies first? Well why sell it before the studies are done if its that important.


An email I got not all too long ago from Peggy stated 'I've made some changes but haven't told the community yet. I've been testing the changes, blood tests often on the gliders, for 2 years.'

Hope that answers your question.


Eddie, I pretty much agree. What I myself prefer to hear is something to the effect of' 'how do you know that?' "Well, other than everybody says it... Here's MY experience." smile
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:43 AM

Quote:
proper identification of the product
net quantity statement
manufacturer’s address
proper listing of ingredients


I hope she intends to follow the laws about that and I guess all we would have to do is PAY for some in order to learn where it is manufactured.
Quote:

An email I got not all too long ago from Peggy stated 'I've made some changes but haven't told the community yet. I've been testing the changes, blood tests often on the gliders, for 2 years.'

On another board, Peggy stated she has been feeding this for "several months".

I also would like to say...I hope she will include lot numbers or batch numbers, expiration dates and such. following the Jorn Act that Laura Leigh worked so hard on.
Posted By: queenduck

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 02:26 PM

On my way to class today but had to make a quick stop just to add a few words. LOL

First off, I thought Peggy was banned on GC. Is that over, did I miss something? Knowing Peggy like I do, if banned there is no way she'd make an exception and post when asked to post if she doesn't have the freedom to post all the time. BUT I could be wrong. Maybe she isn't banned any longer and she's not posting on GC because she's sworn off GC, like other swear off anything Virgil does, she is known to get [censored] too and swear off something or someone. That's just how she is. I have not talked to her this week so I have no idea. If she isn't posting here I doubt you'll see her posting here, that's just the way she is.

Secondly, I have been using the new HPW plus for several weeks now in two of my cages, feeding the rest of the original wambaroo HPW.

I can not tell you Iv'e seen miricles in those two cages.
I have not. They eat it like they ate the other stuff, they never leave any left over, their coats look fine, their eyes look fine, their personalities have not changed, the other cages are not jealous. LOL. I have seen no change. Which is perfectly fine for me. However, it has only been a few weeks so I am not assuming their might not be changes, there may with time.

I have but do not use the add water only type. I will use it the next time I travel with gliders. It will be more convient than trying to mix HPW in the room, better than traveling with frozen food for several days and better than feeding a hodge podge of baby foods I find at a convient store smile

It looks and feels like the original powder, except the scent of vanilla. It mixes well.

As for fixing the ratio that she wasn't worried about? Well I wasn't worried about the ratios either. To me, HPW was better than anything else out there (FOR ME) and could be tweeked with the type of veggies I feed, so I chose to continue feeding it despite the ratio. So, when Peggy told me she was working on an American producted product I thought it was a good idea, when she later told me she fixed the ratio my thought was... wow, that was a good idea. Never did I think she was uncomfortable with the previous HPW, just that since she was starting from scratch might as well fix something that people are uncomfortable with and that may improve the overall diet for out gliders.

All that said, I would still use the original HPW powder. I just ordered some from Karen Milas last week. I still think it is a great product.

As for funding? Really? I think it's funny to see a few people alluding that if it was backed by Klunder than the will not support it. Really? Some of these same people were willing to work with him at the SGGA, making suggestions and offers. And many of these people said if he would improve one thing they'd be happy. I'm no Klunder fan, not going to send him a Christmas present this year, but I can say I know for a fact that he has changed several things in the last few months that DOES change the life of his gliders and the gliders he cares for... for the better. If he funded this, if Eddie funded this, If I funded this, if Attix Works funded this... I personally don't care. If they have made a good quality product, and I think they have, that is available in AMERICA, great.

I have never liked the fact that my gliders are used to a diet that I can only get from AU, and that they stopped making it for us (the little people) to buy it, that in the past we have had shortages of it, and what the heck am I going to do if for some reason we in America can no longer get it? I am relieved we now have more options.

That is just my non-professional opinion.

Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 03:29 PM

Well said, Alicia smile....as always!
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:06 PM

clap
Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 04:45 PM

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
i do care where the chickens and all the food my family and
animals eat. the preservatives and the chemicals that are in our foods for babies up to adults has caused an increase in all kinds of diseases in our young children that used to
be adult problems.

so i do care abt. the bht and the bha in this new diet.
so what if it is minuscle so are our gliders.

i say once again can a healthier additive like lecithin be
used? since it is still being studied maybe they can tweak
it a little more.

regards,
organic-nancy in detroit
p.s. the fda? they are a joke.
Right. The FDA approves a lot of things that are not good for us (thye are friends of Monsanto), and we just have to know what it is we put in our mouths and the mouths of our gliders. If you don't feel that it's healthy for the animals, do not feed it. If you are worried about it, you have to do the research yourself and not always believe what the FDA tells us.

After the last scare with the Blended, my vet came to my home and found some of my gliders with slight hair loss. One male was worse than the others. It was not enough for me to notice in a short period of time, but he hadn't seen them since November, so it was easier for him to spot. One male had hair loss on his hip a little more which is what I had seen and called on him.

We did the bloodwork later in the week at his office and tests and they came out fine, but it was scary enough for me to go back to the tried and true.

We decided to go back to HPW original since I fed that for over 3 years without an issue. This is what I am comfortable with. I don't think I would change again at this point. It worked before for me, I will stick with it.
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 06:26 PM

I work in the food industry for a large fast food chain and I just went and did a quick inventory of the food items that we serve to the public. Not one item says exactly where something is manufactured at. They have manufacturing numbers but not an actual name of where it was made at.

And I have never once had a customer ask me where something was manufactured at. And if they did, all I could tell them was manufacturer #176 or #253 etc..

I dont know where the beans come from to make our chili, nor do I know where the meat comes from that we cook and serve, I dont know where the fries come from and I have no idea where the produce comes from to make our salads.

I know what company it is all distributed by though, but not actually where its manufactured.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 07:35 PM

Okay so look:

If Frito-Lay comes out with a new Doritos flavor, how many of you are going to bad-mouth them on the internet for not leaving the "classic" flavor as the only flavor they ever endorsed?

How many of you will call them/email them demanding to know where the new chips are manufactured?

How many will talk badly about the company to their friends and swear off Frito-Lay products forever based on the assumption that someone you may never have even met but just "don't like" on principal "may" have funded the research that says the new flavor is good tasting and the ingredients are safe?

Or even call/email the company demanding to know who paid to research & manufacture the new chips because in *your opinion* Frito-Lay could not possibly have done it themselves?

How many will call for others to boycott Frito-Lay products because you don't like that they called them "Cool Ranch Doritos" - after all - "Doritos" are nacho cheese flavored - not "Cool Ranch" flavored, right? So how many of you will demand they change the name of their product "just because you say so"?

Now - how many of you will go "Hey, look - a new Doritos flavor - I'm going to try it!" And you get yourself a free sample bag or buy a small one - and then you decide if you like it or not, and if you do like it, you buy more and tell people it's great and encourage them to try it, too.... but if you dislike it, you just won't buy anymore, maybe give your personal opinion based on experience and only if asked... but you still get your old favorite Doritos flavor and move on with life because demanding Frito-Lay to change their product to suit you is just plain silly to even consider?

'Nuff said about that. wink

Megs - Peggy posted the email she sent to you on LGG in full - it does NOT say "I have worked on this for 2 years" you are incorrect. It says

QUOTE:
"I have been working on improving the HPW for quite some time now and once the testing phase is over I will share with all my new diet layout. I'm sure some will like it and I'm sure others will hate it. And just like I do now I will never tell someone it is something they *have* to feed as I believe folks should have good options and should be able to make decisions on their own as to what is right for them."
UNQUOTE

Eddie - you are correct: everyone has a choice - what they feed, what boards they frequent, where they get their info, what vet they use - it is ALL on an INDIVIDUAL basis - if you don't like something, don't use it - but don't bash it either... that just isn't fair, nice, or mature.

Which leads me to...

Lauren: nothing in life is a guarantee - Winn-Dixie might choose to offer DelMonte as a canned vegetable - I then choose to but DelMonte canned peas at my local Winn-Dixie to serve for dinner - my family eats it and hates it and I never buy it again or my family loves it but isn't in the mood for it and it goes to waste or my family adores it and I make it a lot - it is ALL based on CHOICE. DelMonte chose what kind of veggie - when to harvest it - who to have manufacture and distribute it and who to sell to - the store chose to carry it and how much to have in stock - I chose to buy it, how to prepare it, and to serve it - my family chose whether or not to eat it - and NEVER was ANY of that a GUARANTEE or something ANYONE was FORCED into ANY step of that process. NO ONE *has* to endorse it, like it, or choose to feed it. But isn't it great that in America ALL steps of the process from deciding something needs to be made all the way to offering it to our gliders in a dish is ALL a matter of PERSONAL CHOICE? smile

And with that, I am officially done - sorry about the length folks - I don't post here much anymore, so sometimes, when I do post, it ends up being kind of long tounge
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 07:49 PM

In an email she mentioned 2 years of testing a diet, bloodwork and all. I didn't give a direct quote as I didn't pull the email up to give ver batim.

I'll pull it up in a minute.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 07:54 PM

Julie, I have stated many times I am not bashing Peggy, the diet or anything else and I hope this may be the answer that bridges the gap so how is that not being mature??

YOU may continue to put your head in the sand and do what you have been told thats your choice, do not sit here and tell people they have to do the same nor tell them they are being immature especially if they are not being immature. You are the last person to be calling anyone immature!

I am not and have not bashed the diet or any person(s) involved and have stated it many times now. The only bad question is one that is not asked.

I also feel that this may simplify things so no more mishaps and using wrong vits happen totally throwing off diets.
Posted By: Marz

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 07:55 PM

Originally Posted By: LabNGliderMom
Okay so look:

If Frito-Lay comes out with a new Doritos flavor, how many of you are going to bad-mouth them on the internet for not leaving the "classic" flavor as the only flavor they ever endorsed?



I think the difference here the "classic" is the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (commonly referred to in the US as the HPW powder) and the "new flavour" is a totally different product by a totally different manufacturer.

The new powder should have been marketed as a new product so it doesn't confuse the masses.As it is now, the new product is riding on the reputation of the Wombaroo brand product.

I have no issues with a new diet powder and even think it's wise having a product that is US made but I don't agree with using the reputation of a scientifically proven product from another company to sell a totally different product. My two cents worth anyway.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:01 PM

My apologies. I just reread all of the emails.

The two years bit was in regards to the Green Juice.
She stated that she used the green juice for 2 years prior to telling others because she wanted proper testing done.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:23 PM

This is my take on the situation:

Ok I'm going to compare this situation to another example. Say Alicia /Bourbon/ Peggy/ KarenE etc etc anyone of them come onto this board.. All of them intelligent but non of them nutritionists doctors etc..Come online and say "Hey!! Guess what guys I'm making baby formula now! Its made in the USA and I worked really hard with my knowledge of infant nutrition. I worked with doctors and nutritionist (but I won't tell you their names until my studies are done in a year or more time from the time I start selling it!), I found a company to make it (but I won't tell you their names until my studies are done in a year or more time from the time I start selling it!) They are sending it to (?) in bulk where it is being repackaged by (?) (but I won't tell you their names until my studies are done in a year or more time from the time I start selling it!) shipping it out in FDA approved bags (using comparision to whatever it was approved bags Peggy is using) Anyone who likes this can sell in their stores to anyone who would like to buy it, even though I can't guarentee who's going to be repackaging it then but hey if you don't want it don't buy it. But if you DO like it buy it today get it this week mix it up in your infants bottle and enjoy!!

BTW anyone who bashes my product online is seeking to loose money cause of my product, or they are just plain hateful people who want to start trouble.

Thanks!!!!

** Again I'm not against this diet I just think its still too early to be selling it without further knowledge being given.
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:36 PM

I really don't see the comparison at all between pet food and human food.

I love my gliders just as much as anyone else here but really????.... Trying to compare our glider food to baby formula?

I love you Lauren and I really do respect your opinions and experience with gliders but I do have to disagree with this comparison.
Posted By: xoerikae

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:39 PM

plus the fact that what other diet has gone past this point? from what i understand, she revealed this diet after all the tests that all our other diets have done as well. now she's going ABOVE that. PAST the level what we feed now.
if i am incorrect, please let me know.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 08:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Sherri
I really don't see the comparison at all between pet food and human food.

I love my gliders just as much as anyone else here but really????.... Trying to compare our glider food to baby formula?

I love you Lauren and I really do respect your opinions and experience with gliders but I do have to disagree with this comparison.

I understand is an extreme example but I feel the same way about what I put in my pets food dishes then what I put in mine and my future children this of course is my choice but I don't see why we can't be as careful with our pet food as we are with our own. Just one chicks opinon.
Posted By: Jos

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 09:04 PM

I've been following this thread for awhile, and I've noticed a few key items in this conversation that I find a bit ... disconcerting.

First. Some of the people who are against this being sold now aren't against it for what it is, but for who MAY or MAY NOT have funded the testing for it. IMO, and don't get me wrong I don't agree with mill brokers, mill breeders, etc etc etc, we should be more concerned on whether or not the diet is appropriate for our gliders more then whether or not a mill broker helped fund it's testing. IF, and that's a big if, it was funded by a broker, and they end up using it as their diet of choice because it IS a better diet... wouldn't that be a step in a POSITIVE direction? Not something to shun?

Second. I do a lot of thinking before I give my babies any food, so I do understand people concerned with certain chemicals IN said food. My pomeranian only gets Blue Buffalo Small breed formula for example, NOTHING else will do. So I can understand how people would be up in arms about certain aspects of this diet, therefore would it not be more constructive to just not buy it until you are satisfied with it instead of going on about how you'd never feed it to your gliders? I understand you're all passionate about your gliders, I am too, I monitor what they get for food very carefully because I would be heartbroken if they got sick. I just find it more .... appropriate I guess is the best word to just keep to what your gliders are doing well on instead of going on and on, beating a dead horse so to say about why you don't like it?

It just seems silly to me to keep carrying on when you could instead just keep on whatever diet YOU are comfortable with, and wait to see more on this one.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 09:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Jos

First. Some of the people who are against this being sold now aren't against it for what it is, but for who MAY or MAY NOT have funded the testing for it. IMO, and don't get me wrong I don't agree with mill brokers, mill breeders, etc etc etc, we should be more concerned on whether or not the diet is appropriate for our gliders more then whether or not a mill broker helped fund it's testing. IF, and that's a big if, it was funded by a broker, and they end up using it as their diet of choice because it IS a better diet... wouldn't that be a step in a POSITIVE direction? Not something to shun?


You are absolutely correct, Jos. Many in this community have been waiting and watching since July 2010 for the smallest sign of change. It would seem such a breakthrough would be shouted from the rooftops.

It would certainly go a long way.
Posted By: shadow_

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 09:33 PM

just wanted to say that dont like it dont use it isnt a good excuse. dont like the way that PPP sells and treats their gliders then dont buy from them, dont like this other person's diet even though it has some things wrong then dont use it, dont like the wheel in that person's picture well its not your wheel and your gliders cage so you shouldnt worry about it, see a picture of a glider and a cat together in a picture and the person say my cat and glider love to play with each other, we would probably start telling them the dangers of doing that but its not your glider so not your problem. wasnt there also a certain crazy discussion about a certain intro method that people didnt like, well they didnt have to use it but it was discussed anyways because they were worried about new people trying it.
we do all of this for not only that person but to warn new people who see or read it that that is not a good idea. we want to protect and help as many gliders as we can that is why most people are active on forums to learn and help others.
i really do hope this diet turns out to be good but as long as nobody is being hateful then it should be ok to discuss this diet like we do for every other diet, its not hurting anything to keep discussing it. if you are done discussing it you dont have to read or post (lol dont take that last sentence seriously but that excuse can be used for anything)
Posted By: Jos

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 09:47 PM

No where did I say don't discuss it. Please take what I said for what is written, not what you assume I mean.

If you have problems with ingredients, that's fine, talk about it. That's not a problem.

HOWEVER, any step PPP makes towards improving the lives of the gliders they sell is a GOOD thing. Being against a glider diet SIMPLY because it was funded by them with the hopeful intent of making the glider's lives better isn't A-ok with me. I *want* them to better the lives of the gliders they sell, I want them to do things for the good of the gliders and not just for top dollar.

Please try not to misunderstand what I mean... I'm not saying IGNORE it, but beating a dead horse as to why you will NEVER use it... that's just as awkward and unhelpful as ignoring a problem.

As an edit: The #1 most effective way to put someone out of business is to not buy from them. So not buying from PPP *IS* a good way to stop them. We just need more education available to these impulse buyers
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 10:27 PM

Karen, Jos, Lauren thumb
Posted By: SerenityKris

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 10:35 PM

I've been following these posts for a few days now. I don't post here often, but I have been posting a bit more lately.

I started reading this board because I felt it was a positive place for information on how to best care for my sugar gliders.

Sure, there are differences of opinion, but in general I get a feeling that people here really care about one another and about gliders.

I have no idea of the history and behind-the-scenes of what might have happened in the past, but this has seemed, almost from the beginning, as though people are just out to attack other people.

There are people out here, like me, who are so disheartened with the atmosphere of this string of posts that they are just... over it. They might not speak up, because they're sitting at their screen in disbelief at the level of mean, and bashing that's going on here. That's what I've been doing for days.

I've only had gliders for 2 years. I rely on the combined experience of everyone here to help me decide what's best for my gliders. That's VERY hard to do when reading this post gives me the feeling that this new diet isn't being looked at objectively. It's being attacked vehemently by people who seem to have some sort of problem with Peggy. It's also sending me to OTHER boards for objective information because I don't feel it is found here.

It's something to think about...

In my opinion, ANYONE willing to spend the funds and the time to research Gliders in ANY way is doing us ALL a service. More importantly - it's doing OUR GLIDERS a service. TOO little is known about these guys, and vets rely too much on what WE tell them when we go to appointments. It's sad that we have to educate THEM! The more information that's out there the BETTER! Let's face it, gliders are getting more popular. They're easier to find, and more and more will be finding their way into homes in coming years through legitimate breeders, rescues, and even mill-breeders.

I really hope that people can start putting personal problems aside and look at things objectively. If not for yourselves, but for people like me, who actually do rely on this board to be informative.
Posted By: shadow_

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 11:33 PM

im sorry jos that was not meant for you or really anyone in particular.
i would love it if one day this food could be found on shelves in pet stores right next to the pellets. hopefully people will go for that instead. and then maybe that would be the first step for the person to get into the glider community and learn stuff they didnt know before. i still think fresh/frozen is better but thats just because i have always wanted to be able to make my pets food and not do boring pellets like with hamsters.not comparing this to pellets and i know they would still get fruit and veggies.
im always helping and chatting with new owners so it helps to have sources of info and discussions i can link them to if they have questions.
Posted By: Teresa56

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 11:55 PM

SerenityKris you said it very nicely and I feel very much like you do. I have only had gliders for 4 months and to be honest what I see on this board is opinions because that is the only thing people think they have. It would be different if we only replied to a thread that we had actually experienced what the subject was about.Example- Dont tell me one wheel is better than another unless you had a glider who got their tail caught in the one you had.Anything outside of experience is just opinions or "I heards". I really feel like this has become a witch hunt --- how sad!
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/01/11 11:55 PM

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79
Julie, I have stated many times I am not bashing Peggy, the diet or anything else and I hope this may be the answer that bridges the gap so how is that not being mature??

YOU may continue to put your head in the sand and do what you have been told thats your choice, do not sit here and tell people they have to do the same nor tell them they are being immature especially if they are not being immature. You are the last person to be calling anyone immature!

I am not and have not bashed the diet or any person(s) involved and have stated it many times now.


Eddie, I did not at any time call you immature - I was actually agreeing with your earlier post that feeding or not feeding this is a choice. That is all that was intended by my addressing you. If you took it any other way it was not intended to be that way.

I hardly ever come here anymore - and this automatic assumption that I am calling you immature, as well as your vehement (and uncalled for IMO) reaction are why I generally avoid GC as much as I can in favor of forums where my personality (and thereby usually my intent and tone) are more easily understood by people who are not judging me by past mistakes, differences of opinion, or misunderstandings.

Once again - the inability to detect intent, inflection, and tone on an internet forum rears it's ugly head. shakehead

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
I just think its still too early to be selling it without further knowledge being given.


No one thinks you are bashing the diet - however whether or not she gives out the info someone wants has no bearing on whether or not she has the info herself... that is what I have been asking everyone to keep in mind - Peggy has been involved with gliders for many years and I have no reason to believe she would do anything to intentionally or unintentionally harm sugar gliders for any reason.

And of course, you are entitled to your opinion that it is too early to put the product on the market - just as it is someone else's choice to purchase and feed it. smile
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 12:40 AM

Originally Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Eddie, I did not at any time call you immature - I was actually agreeing with your earlier post that feeding or not feeding this is a choice. That is all that was intended by my addressing you. If you took it any other way it was not intended to be that way.


Julie, I am sorry. When you grouped that all into one with the Eddie starting the sentence It appeared to me that you were directing it all at me in that paragraph. I can make excuses but I wont, I will simply say I am sorry that I read it that way and commented how I did. I will edit/remove it if you would like me to, I don't wana do it myself so it don't look like I am covering it up.

Again, I was wrong in thinking that was directed at me and for commenting as I did. I am sorry.
Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 01:03 AM

I've been staying way out of this but I need to bring this to attention.

Has anybody actually sat down and taken a look at the ingredients in BOTH before whining about the ingredients? HPW Plus has more ingredients in it than the original WHPS but they have many ingredients in common.

Same ingredients:
Whey protein, soy protein, ground cereal grains, dextrose, maltodextrin, Lysine, methionine, vegetable oils, Omega 3 fatty acids (flaxseed oil), niacinomide (nicotinomide), biotin, folic acid, calcium (does not specify sources in WHPS), vitamin E, vitamin A, Vitamin B12, vitamin C (ascorbic acid), Vitamin K(Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex), copper(Copper Sulfate), Vitamin B2 (riboflavin), Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine hydrichloride), zinc, vitamin D3, vitamin B1 (thiamine mononitrate), Iron (ferrous sulfate), selenium (sodium selenite), pantothenic acid (calcium pantothenate)

Ingredients in HPW plus NOT in WHPS:
calcium carbonate, dicalcium phosphate, silicon dioxide, natural and artificial flavors, Calcium Iodate( to prevent iodine deficiency)

Ingredients in WHPS NOT in HPW plus:
iodine.

It actually bothers me a little more that WHPS does not specify the chemical compounds that produce the vitamins and minerals. They just list them. WHPS also does not specify if their vegetable oil contains BHT/BHA (not saying it DOES, but it makes you wonder since they are preservatives and the powder needs to be preserved somehow).
Posted By: Feather

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 01:19 AM

Thank you for posting that Allie!

Wow is all I can say, I am interested in this powder that Peggy has come up with. I am very interested in seeing the study results once they are published.

It all comes down to this, it is for the good of the glider.
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 03:16 AM

Lauren, you said it exactly right.."if you don't want it, don't buy it"....EXACTLY....all a matter of personal choice and again, what you are personally comfortable with in terms of feeding your gliders. (End of my speaking directly to Lauren, the rest of this is just general).

Peggy will never claim to know or be or sell anything that isn't true, and my opinion, anything that isn't safe, beneficial, and healthy for gliders. I really don't think that just because that's my view on it, it means I, or anyone else, is "sticking my/their head in the sand." I know diets are not in my area of expertise. I do my research, read, read, read, talk with others who are feeding or created the diet, and go from there, making the most educated and careful decision for my gliders along the way. Just because I don't demand to have every single MINUTE question answered does not mean my head is in the sand, and anyone who says that or implies it silly.

This is the most work I have ever seen done on ANY diet, and people are STILL critical. It's funny, but I don't remember ANY diet that didn't even HAVE this kind of research to back it up receive this kind of flack. Who manufactured it? How was it funded? How was it packaged? What other diet have we ever asked these questions of and why the sudden interest now? When you look at it that way, you really can't help but see it as nitpicking and a personal thing.

If you aren't comfortable trying it, DON'T. But just because you want the answers to certain questions by NO MEANS obligates Peggy or the creator of any other diet to provide them.

You don't trust the diet as is now?? No problem (although, what extended funded scientific research has been done on the diet YOU'RE feeding????). You want more information before trying it? Eh, you may or may not get it. You want to wait and see what the results of the study are?? That's totally fine. You want to wait and see how other gliders do on first? Go for it.

This whole thing has been blown wayyyy out of proportion. I think everyone needs to take a step back and take a breath.
Posted By: wisconsinsugars

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 03:24 AM

clap totally agree !!!
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:03 AM

Originally Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
I just think its still too early to be selling it without further knowledge being given.


No one thinks you are bashing the diet - however whether or not she gives out the info someone wants has no bearing on whether or not she has the info herself... that is what I have been asking everyone to keep in mind - Peggy has been involved with gliders for many years and I have no reason to believe she would do anything to intentionally or unintentionally harm sugar gliders for any reason.

And of course, you are entitled to your opinion that it is too early to put the product on the market - just as it is someone else's choice to purchase and feed it. smile


I feel like some of this has been taken too personally I've had a really long night away from the house so I just want to comment on my "Agenda" I am wanting to play devils advocate I don't think we will come to an understanding AT ALL I just think for the sake of some who haven't been in this community for very long and are just figuring out what to feed.. Both opinions on this diet need to be said... I'm sorry but at the same time I'm not.. If I have to be bad guy so be it, but this needs to be discussed.. PUBLICLY This isn't about who I'm friends with who Peggy is friends with this is about what we are shoveling into our gliders mouths so please stop telling me if you don't like it don't feed it. We've established that. Thanks.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:05 AM

Speculation is rampant on here. Sit back and wait for the results. Once it all has been reveled then you can jump all over it.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:10 AM

Originally Posted By: GliderGuyVA
Speculation is rampant on here. Sit back and wait for the results. Once it all has been reveled then you can jump all over it.


Peggy has said she can't give a time frame she said a year might not be long enough to give.. At least that was her example.. Its being sold now
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:16 AM

Well, if you want people to stop telling you, "if you don't like it, don't feed it" then questions about manufacturing, funding and packaging need to stop being repeated and pushed too...it ALL needs to stop. You said your concern is what we're "shoveling" into our gliders mouths....please direct me to the extended, at least year-long, funded, backed-by-nutrtionists-and-vets research that the diet YOU are feeding has gone through. Maybe I'm just not aware of it or haven't seen it yet published publicy? Did you ask questions about funding, packaging and manufacturing when you first considered the diet that you are presently feeding? I absolutely 100% doubt it. Why are you asking them now then of this particular diet? What's the difference?
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:30 AM

Jess I would be happy to tell you more about the diet I feed but the answer to all those questions is yes. The maker of my diet I discussed a long time with about my diet before I switch, yes I can track all of the products in mine. The maker made this diet more for her personal use it isn't a diet to manufacturer and sell its based pretty heavily in the belief easier isn't always better. Its not popular because it is pretty complicated and the maker did not ask to have it published on the website but yup when I asked her she cited all her sources for her research she did, she worked step by step with her vet and other's while creating it.

And please stop acting like I'm being all big and bad aggressive about this I've noticed you seem to take all this way too personally and to heart. I have no idea how many diet threads I've been through since 2007. Peggy posted very publicly about her diet selling it we've her the plus' and now your hearing my caution out to others about it. I believe it or not am not against these changes or really against this diet as a whole. Your asking me to "stop" but the truth is NO ONE is stopping the pro's the con's the inbetweens. Your certainly not standing down you've been in here being Peggy's mouth piece and if I'm not mistaken you've been bouncing around on GC LGG and GG for days defending this diet .. I'm not saying your wrong just pointing out I don't see you "stopping" anytime soon. I might have been a big strong in my opinions but I think they've been fair and objective. I haven't asked who is funding her or why she is naming her diet *HPW* plus cause I know how that talk would go. I'm asking valid question I have the right to ask.
Posted By: meri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:37 AM




Edited to say: All I can gather is that some people have put a lot into this and are passionate about it because of that. I posted thinking this was a normal thread where you could say "hey, I have decided to do this for me and my gliders for now" but I have removed that because it has gotten too personal and I don't want to offend anyone who has put a lot of time and money into this. I hope it all turns out great; I really do.
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:49 AM

Originally Posted By: angelic4296
please direct me to the extended, at least year-long, funded, backed-by-nutrtionists-and-vets research that the diet YOU are feeding has gone through.


I stated earlier that there has been none done before and we feed our gliders on hopes we were doing the right thing. This diet is different cause one of it's biggest selling point is it's been stated it has been researched, with scientific data collected, etc. To me if those documents and statistics cannot be released yet, than this shouldn't be advertised that way.

I am not saying this against Peggy or anyone involved, please don't think I am, but if I am being sold a product that is backed by vets, has scientific data and research I would like to see such facts before I do so, not cause I should trust what I am being told.

If the data is not available who's to say its complete, or even ready for full blown availability on the market and should be out of testing phase. Again, I am not saying it isn't ready or it's bad, or not complete just that I shouldn't be told it is when no data is available and than told.

So I will ask you, were is the year-long, funded, backed-by-nutrtionists-and-vets research data for this one? If it is being advertised as such it should be available. Other wise it shouldn't be advertised in this manner till it is available.

You cant keep throwing around the show me all the extensive research for the other diets, if the extensive research for this one is not even available yet. Are we to just believe that the data and research was done with no concerns cause we are told so?

Past diets had no data or research, nor were the advertise as having any. This one has it so it's different, truthfully I am looking forward to seeing the data and research that was done as I am interested in that kind of stuff more so since it has not been done before. Hopefully I made sense here, it's late, lol.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:00 AM

Lol Teehee Eddie maybe I'm just stupid type of tired but maybe all the Show Me stuff has gotten to me. I'm home grown Missouri Girl (the show me state)..SHOW ME!! I do appreciate all the work Peggy has done but really I would like to see it. In the very least can I see an diet analysis maybe its around somewhere. MY diets analysis is posted at the top of my diet page in my website. All this show me stuff is JUST SILLY !!! I ask where was it all made who regulates it. My answer, "Where is all the food in your pantry made", now they've got me thinking grabbing cans out of it bags of chips to track down the who's where's and why's.. Have way in the middle of it I'm jerking my head up going HEY WAIT A SEC!!! They distracted me. I asked a question I want an answer .. I've now been given as much as I've been given so I guess I'll make my conclusion tomorrow ... but just for future ref don't answer a question with a question its rude lol. and mean!! Darn so tired shouldn't even be online anymore
Posted By: meri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:05 AM

roflmao

Ok, Lauren, we needed that smile
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:13 AM

I find it funny how people "want to see the results" yet they are comfotable with products that have never been researched. Yet many of you feed your Gliders the HPW diet which was created by the same person that created the HPW plus/complete. Really? Is this all you can come up with? Oh wait I forgot, the VK issue as well. I highly doubt he has anything to do with this and if he does? Good for him for trying to help Gliders well being.

Like I said before, sit back, relax and wait. Do or don't buy it. It's your choice, but going on and on and beating a dead horse about it aint gonna help.

PS. If you want to see what Peggy is saying then go to LGG and check it out smile
Posted By: shadow_

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:15 AM

thanks gliderdad i was thinking the same thing but it wouldnt have come out that well lol.
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:23 AM

These questions I'm asking Peggy I ask of ANY diet when I found a diet where my questions were answered there I went!
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 06:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Jess I would be happy to tell you more about the diet I feed but the answer to all those questions is yes. The maker of my diet I discussed a long time with about my diet before I switch, yes I can track all of the products in mine. The maker made this diet more for her personal use it isn't a diet to manufacturer and sell its based pretty heavily in the belief easier isn't always better. Its not popular because it is pretty complicated and the maker did not ask to have it published on the website but yup when I asked her she cited all her sources for her research she did, she worked step by step with her vet and other's while creating it.
Then Lauren, I apologize to you on that point. For me, like I said, diets aren't my forte (for starters, I can barely do simple math like addition and subtraction, so calculating ratios and all that....it befuddles me ha). Maybe that's why I'm happy Peggy put this diet out. For starters, I trust the well-being of my gliders' nutritional needs in Peggy's hands any day of the week. If she says she has researched this and has had the help of nutritionists and vets, I believe her and trust that the sources she has chosen to use are experts in their fields. Maybe I'm lazy, but it makes it easy for me with a diet like this, knowing I don't have to worry about the Ca:P ratios; it's already built in for me.

And please stop acting like I'm being all big and bad aggressive about this I've noticed you seem to take all this way too personally and to heart. It was never my intention to imply that you were being "all big and bad aggressive." I simply think that some of what is being asked is a bit nitpicky. I have no idea how many diet threads I've been through since 2007. Peggy posted very publicly about her diet selling it we've her the plus' and now your hearing my caution out to others about it. I believe it or not am not against these changes or really against this diet as a whole. Your asking me to "stop" but the truth is NO ONE is stopping the pro's the con's the inbetweens. Your certainly not standing down you've been in here being Peggy's mouth piece and if I'm not mistaken you've been bouncing around on GC LGG and GG for days defending this diet .. I'm not saying your wrong just pointing out I don't see you "stopping" anytime soon. I think calling me Peggy's mouthpiece is a bit harsh and unfair. Peggy has never ever asked me to say one single word of what I've said in this thread - therefore, I'm not her mouthpiece. I've said everything I have on my own because I think this diet is being put under the microscope way too harshly. It seems people have 1,001 concerns about things that have never been asked of any other diet at all and I'm just a bit confused as to why that is. And you're right, I am defending this diet because I think it's one of the biggest advancements we've ever witnessed in terms of the dietary and nutritional needs of sugar gliders; this hasn't been done before. I might have been a big strong in my opinions but I think they've been fair and objective. I haven't asked who is funding her or why she is naming her diet *HPW* plus cause I know how that talk would go. I'm asking valid question I have the right to ask. I never said you were the one asking about funding at all. I know that question didn't come from you.


Lauren, it was never my intention to create tension or hostility between us. I've always respected you as a glider owner and knowledgable person when it comes to our babies. I'm just feeling like Peggy and her diet are being unfairly questioned and attacked in a few ways, and I'm having trouble understanding why. I guess I wish that in a perfect world that people would trust that Peggy as a GOOD and NOBLE person would never A) deceive people about her diet and it's contents and B) know that she would never put a product on the market that was in any way deterimental or bad for gliders. My heart is in this, you're right. I love Peggy and I love her dedication and all the good she has done for our community. I apologize if you felt attacked.
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 06:51 AM

Wow, totally off topic, but I'm amazed I actually got that red typing to work - I'm usually so bad at that hahaha....ok, back on topic....
Posted By: GliderHappy81

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 07:49 AM

Originally Posted By: gliderdad79

This diet is different cause one of it's biggest selling point is it's been stated it has been researched, with scientific data collected, etc. To me if those documents and statistics cannot be released yet, than this shouldn't be advertised that way.



Toothpaste is sold with "#1 Dentist recommended brand", "9 out of 10 dentist recommend(fill in product name here)", Medicine is sold with "Recommended by Doctors" etc, etc. Same thing with dog food, cat food, and so on.

Who are the Dentists that makes a product #1? How many Dentist does it take to do that anyway? Is there a list somewhere with all their names? Who are the 9 Dentists that recommend Crest toothpaste? Who is the one Dentist that doesn't? And why the heck doesn't he recommend it too? What is in toothpaste exactly? Does anyone bother look that up, or does it not matter because its not being sold by Peggy?

What about the Doctors? The vets? Where is the list with their names? The ingredients?

I really don't mean any disrespect but I have seen others say this same thing and it really doesn't make any since to me. Of course, I just recently learned what "vlog" is (I am so behind on these things these days. lol) so maybe its just age setting in. tounge I just think if people are going to be so picky about this, why are they not looking all this up with everything else?
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 11:32 AM

Eddie - no problem - perhaps it was the wording smile

Lauren - I'm sorry I picked up the "if you don't like it don't buy it" and aimed it at you: it's actually aimed at everyone who "bashes first and asks questions later". NOT at YOU as an individual.

In general - Look, I am certain that if testing was done and this was "approved after testing" to be sold, even though clinical trials are still in the process of being completed, that Peggy MUST have also worked with a vet to develop this diet - JUST as she did with the WHPS (a/k/a "original HPW").

I am not going to argue about diets with anyone - I believe each glider owner takes on the responsibility for THEMSELVES to research what is best for the animals they have chosen to dedicate a part of their lives to, and thereby EACH owner has the *right* to make a decision based on their own research as to what *they* feel is *best* to feed *their gliders*...

No matter WHAT it turns out to be that anyone chooses feed their gliders, it is THEIR choice and NONE of us is qualified or has the right to bash them for not doing what *we* choose to do or to belittle them for doing it in a way *we* perceive as *wrong* - if Peggy says she has the science to back up that it is safe to sell and will have more to provide to the community at the end of the clinical studies, it is *my* choice & right to believe her and to feed the new diet if I want to.

All I ask is that more of us recognize one thing:

"Just because it is not *my way* does not mean it is wrong"

Feel free to express your opinions - we all have a right to do so - I just hate seeing a PERSON get *attacked* without provocation: all she did was try to help gliders by creating a better diet... but some are acting like she did something awful and that just plain bothers me. frown
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 02:15 PM

Originally Posted By: LabNGliderMom
"Just because it is not *my way* does not mean it is wrong"

Feel free to express your opinions - we all have a right to do so - I just hate seeing a PERSON get *attacked* without provocation: all she did was try to help gliders by creating a better diet... but some are acting like she did something awful and that just plain bothers me. frown

I really appreciate some of the stuff back on the board this moring but I just want to say I hope Peggy doesn't feel attacked and if so I specially hope she doesn't feel like she was just blinde sighted by all this. I've made some strong statements but I honestly don't think Peggy's feelers got hurt in all this. I'm not saying she "deserved" it but sorry this is what happens when you market a new product like this. It has its growing pains. We ask questions we might argue a little over if this is being handled well but at the end of the day I walk away with my feelings not changed about my friends. You saw a couple pages ago Sherri say flat out I was being silly with my comparison of the baby formula, ok she and I fully disagree I think she's being really hasty to praise this diet and frankly she thinks I'm being very silly. But when I went to bed last night I still love Sherrie as much as I did when I woke up. I feel personally when all this is said and done I will walk away feeling the same about those involved as when it started. Peggy isn't being attacked (I've heard whisper of some other junk other boards) but personally from the people that show up on my radar, Peggy isn't being attacked atleast not her personally. People just want more info.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 02:38 PM

Who here was educated in the processes of marketing? Or the process and procedures of marketing or product releases? Any lawyers here?

Armchair quarterbacks galore smile

Go to LGG and read what Peggy has already stated time and time again. Pretty simple folks, all you have to do is point,click, and read smile There are reasons she cannot divulge the info at this point but I'm not telling, but you can read it for yourself if like smile
Posted By: Laurens_Babies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 03:14 PM

Just like anything else some people can't /won't go to LGG just like some can't/won't go to this board yadda yadda yadda.
"Who here was educated in the processes of marketing? Or the process and procedures of marketing or product releases? Any lawyers here?"

And of Peggy and all her friends defending who ARE THEY?
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 04:46 PM

Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
You saw a couple pages ago Sherri say flat out I was being silly with my comparison of the baby formula, ok she and I fully disagree I think she's being really hasty to praise this diet and frankly she thinks I'm being very silly. But when I went to bed last night I still love Sherrie as much as I did when I woke up.




Awe!!!!!! I love you too Lauren, always have always will!

And I love that we can agree to disagree and still come out as friends in the end. I totally understand that there is going to be controversy with a new diet just as there is still controversy over diets that have been in the community for years. What we feed and how we feed our gliders will always and forever be a huge debate.
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 05:11 PM

Quote:
Sit back and wait for the results. Once it all has been reveled then you can jump all over it.


I feel this statement is asking those using these new diets to put their gliders out there as "lab rats" for experiments. Which IS the CHOICE for each person to do if they are doing so with full disclosure of the "manufacturer and creator" of these new products. I used MY gliders as "lab rats" when I came up with Reep's diet.


Quote:
If I was being told that there is research and data for a diet I would darn sure want to see that data and research up font before I switched since there is some data. Yes the data is not a tell all since it's as of now has only been a short term study (meaning it only has a years worth of data) and as the years progress more will be added to the data.

I have not seen where there has been even a years worth of studies done. Peggy has said she has been feeding this to her gliders for "several months"

I have seen toothpaste questioned and such (9 out of 10 dentists). Actually, those "studies" have to be available to the public to make those claims. Yes, they can be any dentist (reputable or not) but to claim it, there has to be documented proof or there is the risk of suit for false advertising.

Quote:
I think the difference here the "classic" is the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (commonly referred to in the US as the HPW powder) and the "new flavour" is a totally different product by a totally different manufacturer.

The new powder should have been marketed as a new product so it doesn't confuse the masses.As it is now, the new product is riding on the reputation of the Wombaroo brand product.


Marz, you have such a good and VALID point with this. Cool Ranch Doritos and Nacho Cheese Doritos are still the same product base, just different flavors. These diets are NOT the same and should not contain the same name regardless who "coined" it. Even here on the diet database, it is listed as "HPW (high protein wombaroo diet) Diet". This is how it was submitted BY Peggy to the database. Peggy coined "HPW" to stand for high protein Wambaroo. Now she wants to make it something else. Yes, it is misleading at the very least since the new diets do not contain Wambaroo and Wambaroo is a BRAND name.

Quote:
Who here was educated in the processes of marketing? Or the process and procedures of marketing or product releases? Any lawyers here?

This statement is designed simply to be insulting to everyone. To ASSUME that no one posting on here has any educational back ground what so ever is quite nieve. I have had some education in the processes of marketing as well as the process and procedures of marketing or product release. No, I am not a lawyer but I have had some education in business law as well.

I would be concerned if I were Peggy about trademark/copywrite infringement in implying that her new diets are "American made Wambaroo".

I've said it before, if this is a good diet, great. If it is backed by mill breeders/brokers, I won't support it because I won't support them. (I still won't buy Exxon gas because of the Alaska oil spill and the way they handled it).

As we all have a CHOICE and we all have the RIGHT to our opinions, I will exersize both those rights. I feel Peggy has jumped the gun on this and should have waited until her clinical studies were finished before skating on the claim that they were being done or going to be done. It gives false impressions that these new products have been tested to be safe when that is not known at all. Or as Eddie said, she should not have made the claim until it WAS ready to be published (or already published).

With Reep's (Wambaroo) Diet, I was and am up front about it NOT having any clinical analysis, only my own "testing" with the numerous gliders I have and have had over the years. I have had 3 different vets look at what I am feeding (as well as the gliders eating it) and have their approval on it. Those vets looked at it almost 7 years ago. Would they STILL approve it? I don't know. I haven't asked them. And I encourage anyone wanting to use Reep's diet to have THEIR vet review it too. I also don't push anyone to try Reep's diet. I am not "selling" it. I feel I AM making things better for gliders with this diet because I have SEEN what it can do for gliders. MY GLIDERS. MY experience. MY research. I encourage everyone to do the same for THEIR gliders.

People are people and it is a "disposable world of convience" and there are so many that will always look for the "easy" way out (such as feeding pellets) simply because it is easier without any independent research. And yes, using that convience factor IS a marketing tool.

Peggy bashed someone else for using dry egg products but now uses "dry egg product" in her new diets. How is it all of a sudden safe? And we are supposed to trust that her dry egg product is somehow more safe than what the other person was using? We aren't supposed to question it? A great deal of the questions being asked are because of how Peggy came across with it to begin with. And many of us do know more than the last 2 years history.


Posted By: dhemy

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 08:19 PM

Everyone keeps referencing LGG - what site is this? dunno

Thanks,
Posted By: oakley

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 08:33 PM

Originally Posted By: dhemy
Everyone keeps referencing LGG - what site is this? dunno

Thanks,


Laurie's Glider Gazette is another online forum for gliders that is known to be a little more *raw* than here.

Here is the link
Posted By: dhemy

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 08:41 PM

Thanks!
Posted By: Trigger

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 10:05 PM

Great point Alicia. I remember SEVERAL of us very willing to offer to help with things to try to make those gliders' lives better.

I would be doing a happy dance to see PPP telling or offering a good wholesome diet for all those babies.
Heck, I might even help him mix up batches for feeding babies if I were close by.......that way I could see first hand those babies getting it.

Does that mean I would fall madly in love with Mr. Klunder, nope. Be thrilled at his way of selling so many gliders, nope.

But it would be one positive thing I would love to see.

I don't have a clue nor care where Peggy gets her money, nor any of the rest of the people here. And it's not anyone here's business where or how I get mine or what I spend it on either.
What on earth makes anyone one here feel they are entitled to ask such to one they are not married to or possibly the parent of?
If anyone asked me that I am certain they wouldn't like the answer they got in a very fevered and colorful way.

I can understand some things being asked and I say ask away, but some of it is rediculous. As are some of the other things I see.

Why change the name of HER diet which she named- I could see it if she just called them all "HPW" but they are distinquished by HPW, HPW Plus & HPW Complete. I would like to try plus had NO problems figuring out just what I wanted and managed fine to order the correct product, confused by 3 choices wow.
Who's money, how did ya get the money, my goodness. DON"T ever make the mistake of asking me that if you are not my husband or paying MY bills for me.

How do your post the results of a test/analysis or anything else when it is not over. I am gonna demand my vet give me my fecal results as soon as I hand her the poop and see how that goes.
People scream for proper testing, research and so forth then when we finally have some being done the same people are demanding what? End it now and give us what we want yesterday? Take a wild guess as to the final results and give them to us yesterday?
Peggy would have done better to just keep her mouth shut about testing and studies and started selling without it and said well that's how all the other diets were done so, oh well.
She has let us know that the blood work done so far has come back good, the gliders eating this are thriving and doing well.
I am no dietician, vet, nutritionist or any of that other stuff. I am a glider momma who loves her babies and I trust Peggy NOT to offer anyone a product that she won't use herself or isn't safe. I don't think she just decided to take on a task that would have to be a constant headache just for fun and am sure she has picked this thing to death with the vets.
Am I telling you to trust Peggy, nope. Feed Peggy's diets, nope. Feed what you trust, made by whom ever you trust that figured it up.

I feed what I like and usually it is so modified that Peggy would go um, that is not HPW, it is in my house JMHPW
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 10:45 PM

I think the point that people are trying to make but are having difficulty is- Where is this HPW Plus/Complete powder coming from? The questioning to Peggy on this, is quite different than questioning someone about a diet they created. Peggy put the HPW diet (as we know it) together- but she did NOT create the Wombaroo powder that was used to make it. That's the big difference between questioning people & the diets they created. Most other diets use everyday food ingredients or they use Wombaroo Powder. But Peggy is now promoting and selling a NEW High Protein Supplement Powder .

No one has questioned Paswell or other companies, because they were companies that could be traced and contacted about their product- but that information is not available to the public right now on the HPW Plus Powder that Peggy is offering!!

I think people who are honestly interested in feeding the HPW Plus Version have the right to ask questions and have the right to know where the product is being made and so forth. But this product is so new and people will have to use it on faith or just not use it at all.

That's the uproar- there's a new High Protein Supplement ingredient being introduced- it's not about a new HPW diet being offered.
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 11:07 PM

Not having/sharing answers/information may hurt the interest in trying the HPW Plus - that will then result in a lower amount of people using/studying the product- which could then hurt getting this product approved for use and sold amongst the US and not just the glider community.

I would hope the goal for this HPW Plus is to have it available Nationwide and on the shelves of our pet stores instead of glider pellets- but at the going rate/pace, that may be quite some time away. Me personally, I thought we were closer to the later since there was a manufacturer here in the states producing this HPW Plus powder.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/02/11 11:21 PM

A lot of this is, well I cant say what I really want to say. So I am just going to say pointless. Both Baggie & Mucee(my 2 munchkins) came from Peggy They are both great! I have had gliders for many years & have never dealt with a breeder that took the time she did with the whole adoption process. I bought them both at separate times and she spent so much time calling me, emailing me, requesting pics of cage, & gliders. She mailed me some toys, blankets, & HPW powder. She cares too much about gliders she will probably never see again &gliders in general to offer something she doesnt believe in. If she wasnt using it herself she wouldnt be selling it. I still have plenty of the original HPW powder left, but when it runs out I will have no problem trying the new HPW plus. When the testing is done Im sure she will post the results. Until then, either try or dont. I trust Peggy! That's just my opinion.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 12:18 AM

The beating of the dead horse continues. You can ask and argue the points of this discussion all you want but it aint gonna make anything happen any sooner.

My previous post was not meant to be harmfull to anyone just pointing out that there seems to be way to much "armchair quarterbacking" going on.

You can argue, chitter chatter, and complain all you want, but the answer is still gonna be to wait for the info to be released. Don't buy the product, wait for the results, thats totally cool.

Some day were all gonna look back at this and laugh.
Posted By: GliderGuyVA

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 02:40 AM

Here's a pic of Peggy's Glider Tambuski. He has been on the new diet. Look at that tail would ya! I have permission to show the pic smile

Attached picture dsc04510.jpg
Posted By: hwh4ev

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:10 AM

tambuski is a beautiful glider. having said that i think
that people are beating a dead horse, if you want to wait
to see the results, fine. wait.
on another note who cares who put the money up even if it is ppp at least their gliders will be getting a better diet.
that is what diets are created for-for the gliders.

personally i would not use this diet as i do not like the
preservatives in it but would try it if it was tweaked a little.

regards,
nancy in detroit
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:00 AM

I heart that tail!!!
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:19 AM

Beautiful coats, coloring and of course can't forget that GORGEOUS tail!
Posted By: angelic4296

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:19 AM

Ahhhhhh, that tail is BEAUTIFUL!!!! And what a face! OK, back on topic everyone haha...
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 08:55 AM

Robert, I know you feel everyone is beating a dead horse, and they are, but sometimes, people, women mostly, just need to talk and vent and discuss things to help themselves figure it out, sometimes to not convince others, but themselves.

who else are we all gonna talk to about it? Nongliderloving people at work? humph.

There are also quite a large crew of members here, and all may want to say something on this subject, or have a question about it, and I dont want any of THEM feeling like they cannot comment because they will be chastised for "beating the dead horse"

so ask away, all the GC staff requests at this time is that everyone be respectful to others. It is ok to have different view points. And no one should feel picked on because they think differently

Agree to disagree.
Posted By: Pockets

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 01:26 PM

Sorry all -

I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information -

unless the info posted to this site is inaccurate http://www.hpwplus.com/default.htm
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 02:52 PM

I say after seeing peggy website she has some of the most beautiful gliders I ever seen , I might butt heads with Peggy but her gliders are just beautiful , I was rude for being mean to her on post and sorry for about that , just upset with being told not to worry about calcium but she made one with it, I would have felt better being told she was fixing the calcium thing ,then not to worry , other then that I like that she adding it in so we dont worry about them , only have to worry about play time and cleaning , now if it get in to store then no more online shopping but honestly I love shopping online ,"addict". Just hope everyone can use it ^_^
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 03:48 PM

Originally Posted By: Pockets
Sorry all -

I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information -

unless the info posted to this site is inaccurate http://www.hpwplus.com/default.htm


What exactly is inaccurate?
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 03:52 PM

Originally Posted By: vhenke11
I say after seeing peggy website she has some of the most beautiful gliders I ever seen , I might butt heads with Peggy but her gliders are just beautiful , I was rude for being mean to her on post and sorry for about that , just upset with being told not to worry about calcium but she made one with it, I would have felt better being told she was fixing the calcium thing ,then not to worry , other then that I like that she adding it in so we dont worry about them , only have to worry about play time and cleaning , now if it get in to store fk yea then no more online shopping but honestly I love shopping online ,"addict". Just hope everyone can use it ^_^


Also she didn't "fix" the calcium thing. The HPW diet has an OVERALL good ratio, with the right veggies and fruit.

Her HPW Plus and HPW Complete have the ratios exact from the powders.

Since she was making a product from the ground up she listened to the community and felt this was the best route since people were trying to add calcium to the HPW diet and causing problems with their gliders.

None of what I wrote is FOR Peggy. Simply my interpretation of what she has written at LGG and SGN.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:12 PM

Also she didn't "fix" the calcium thing. The HPW diet has an OVERALL good ratio, with the right veggies and fruit.

Her HPW Plus and HPW Complete have the ratios exact from the powders.

Since she was making a product from the ground up she listened to the community and felt this was the best route since people were trying to add calcium to the HPW diet and causing problems with their gliders.

None of what I wrote is FOR Peggy. Simply my interpretation of what she has written at LGG and SGN.


Ok I might word it wrong what I was trying to say sorry !!Not she added it to hpw but made one with calcium in it so we didnt worry if we were feeding right fruits and veggies and we werent doing it our self to add calcium .SORRY thank you for helping word it right .
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:13 PM

No problem, and no need to be sorry. Just clarifying... smile
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:14 PM

not saying we shouldnt worry about the fruit and veggies but be able to offer more different ones with less worrying .
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:19 PM

Exactly smile
Posted By: hushpuppy

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 04:45 PM

Well I'm not sure that horse is really dead. Maybe it is “living impaired”?


This has been an excellent mature discussion and although there have been a few misunderstanding, they were quickly resolved. Hts off to GC.

First, do people have the right to ask some of these questions. I believe that they do. For instance the questions about funding. I've heard it implied that it could have been Virgil Klunder. I've also heard the ol' who cares if it is Virgil. Well I do. And I think a lot of other people care also. I think we can all agree that it would be a good thing if Klunder fed his gliders a better food, but many would not purchase if it was known that Klunder would profit from this venture. Just like many of us will not shop for treats or toys at pet stores. We simply refuse to give our money and support to those who sell mill bred animals.

Some have asked about the testing. Here is the reason that is important. Over the years we have seen many diets come along. Most of us have heard a statement similar to this. “I have been doing research for long time, and I have come up with a great diet. I've tested it, My gliders love it and best of all my Vet loves it.” Most of the time this translates into “ I looked some things up on the internet and threw some things together, my pets eat it if they are hungry, and best of all my vet nodded in approval when I showed him the ingredient list. This community is weary of that kind of deception. So if this diet is being clinically tested, there should be some sort facts to back it up. If Peggy hadn't advertised the testing, there wouldn't be any reason to question it but since she did, I think people have the right to ask. And it's my understanding that the law dictates that these kind of statements be true and supported.

Concerning the manufacturer; here again if Peggy advertised that, either on her site or on her packaging, she should be prepared to substantiate those claims. Also laws require that she state the name and address of the company that is responsible for the safety of the pet food. This information must be provided on the label.

It has been said in this post that there are no agencies that regulate pet foods. That is NOT true. FDA, USDA, AAFCO, FTC and CMV and others can regulate pet food depending on the type of pet food and the claims are made on the label and in the advertising. Furthermore, each state may have their own set of regulations and the corporation should understand the regulations of each and every state before attempting to pursue interstate commerce. In addition, using the word “complete or balanced” on the label or in the advertising requires testing and approval. Without that testing and approval, the label might be considered misleading.

Some have expressed concern about the naming of this pet food and the confusion that might come about because of the name. Personally I think that is for the Wombaroo company, and maybe their US distributors to handle... According to U.S. Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO), "A trademark is a word, phrase, symbol or design, or a combination of words, phrases, symbols or designs, that identifies and distinguishes the source of the goods of one party from those of others." I am not a lawyer but in my opinion the Wombaroo company might have grounds if they choose to pursue it.

There has also been some questions about the testing and research. From my understanding, the results belong to the company or the person that paid for the research. They can take those results and publish the parts that they want published. Therefore if the results said something like

1. improved coat
2. no change in teeth
3. Eyes are bright and clear
4. some bone deterioration was noted.

Yes I made that up. But obviously the company or person would select #1 and to promote and ignore the rest. And it is their right to do so because that information belongs the them.


I didn't write this to cause problems for Peggy. I wrote this because there has been a lot of speculation and misinformation in this post. Actually I hope Peggy is successful in this venture and I would love to see an easy to use nutritional product to feed sugar gliders.

Gonna go beat some life into that living impaired horse now and ride off into the sunset.























Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 05:17 PM

They have the right to question, but does she have to answer? No. Just like Priscilla does not have to answer when asked about her vitamins.

This means if you dont like the answer take your money and go somewhere else. (Not being rude but this is EXACTLY what I do with some products)

Testing is important. She has stated she can NOT give the results right now but WILL when they are available. If you want to wait till the results are out to purchase the food. That is your choice.

I have never seen a manufacture state its name and address. What law is this? And is it a federal law or state law?

For something to be trademarked, dont you have to have it trademarked first? Why would an Australian company have something trademarked in the USA?

Researchers can not give you half answers to their research. However they can construe it to a way that is beneficial for them or whoever paid for it. Then it is up to you to read the research properly. If you are so interested in what the research states, make sure you know how to READ the information given accordingly.
Posted By: Jos

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 05:45 PM

It pains me that this is still being beaten. Let the dead horse lie.

Look I'm gonna clear something up. There is no law stating that a company HAS to tell you where their product is produced short of a general geographic area. For example. "made in Taiwan" or "Made in the United States". They're also not legally required to give you an address. They do have to provide a customer support phone number, but that's the extent of it.

Second, giving information about a clinical study out before it is complete is not only reckless but dangerous. There is a reason it's not complete, to give out the info now could very well come back and bite Peggy in the butt in the future so I do support her NOT giving the information but telling us that when it's complete, she will have it out for us to see.

I still stand by the "If you don't like it, don't buy it." I don't buy wal mart meats because they taste funny to me, that doesn't mean I go out and tell everyone that they shouldn't too. It's up to each person to read what's in it and decide for themselves. That's all there is to it. Ask questions, but don't go on and on about funding, trademarks, and all that. This is about the quality of the food being offered for sale, not who funded it. Yes the name may be confusing, but is the food itself suitable?

If, and I say again *IF*, it's been funded by PPP then whatever, at least he's making an effort to better the lives of the gliders he sells. That is an improvement. I don't care if you don't like the man, it's an improvement *for the gliders*. Everyone in the world is out to make money, that's they only way to get by. But if he's shelling OUT money, and trust me research and testing isn't cheap, then all the better.

I'm glad that for the most part this has been looked at objectively and at the food values and not the funding, but we need to leave the funding horse alone and focus on "Is this good for our gliders? Is it a food we can feel comfortable with for it's nutritional value?"
Posted By: Pockets

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 05:52 PM

Received the following last evening from very dear and concerned friends - this makes my blood boil & endangers glider's sure makes one wonder who these
so-called experts are -



Thanks for your enquiry regarding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. Please find attached datasheet with
information about this product.

Our product is often used as part of the High Protein Wombaroo (HPW) diet for Sugar Gliders.

The new products that you sent us a link to (HPW Plus and HPW Complete) are not Wombaroo products and we
do not have any information about them. However by using the term “HPW” in their product we believe that
are clearly misleading customers that there is some link to the tried and tested Wombaroo product
(after all the “W” in HPW stands for Wombaroo). A quick comparison of the composition of these products
indicates some sort of attempt to copy the Wombaroo formula, eg protein, fat and fibre contents all about
the same. However there are some major discrepancies in the vitamins and minerals quoted on the
“ingredients” page of their website eg the HPW Plus quotes a minimum Vitamin A level of 15%, and the
HPW Complete has 10%. These are ridiculously high numbers, and hopefully are just a typo (otherwise it
would be at toxic levels). More insidious, are the levels of Selenium at 0.15% in the HPW Plus diet
(which equates to 1.5 grams per kilogram). This is 10,000 times the concentration in our product, which
would almost certainly be at a toxic level. Vitamin A and Selenium are just 2 of the listed
micro-nutrients, we fear there could be problems with some of the others.

I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information. They could be genuinely
careless mistakes or otherwise indicate an inability to undertake the basic calculations required to
formulate a nutritional product.

Regards,

Gordon Rich.
Posted By: hushpuppy

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:10 PM

Originally Posted By: MizValorie
They have the right to question, but does she have to answer? No. Just like Priscilla does not have to answer when asked about her vitamins.

The laws for vitamins are completely different than the laws for pet food.

This means if you dont like the answer take your money and go somewhere else. (Not being rude but this is EXACTLY what I do with some products)

Actually your are trying to be rude. But that doesn't change the facts that I wrote. When you start dealing in pet foods, you open a whole new can of worms. It's not a like it or leave it thing. It is a matter of taking the proper steps and doing what the laws dictate.

Testing is important. She has stated she can NOT give the results right now but WILL when they are available. If you want to wait till the results are out to purchase the food. That is your choice.

Testing is very important. However the laws are clear about truth in advertising and since she can't or won't substantiate these claims, she should remove them.


I have never seen a manufacture state its name and address. What law is this? And is it a federal law or state law?

Perhaps you should reread what I said. I don't think it was unclear but who knows? Actually this is a federal law that is mandated in the CFR.

For something to be trademarked, dont you have to have it trademarked first? Why would an Australian company have something trademarked in the USA?

It would be best if they were Trademarked in the US. However if they can prove that another company is capitalizing on their good name or infringing or their copyrights, they still might have cause to seek damages..especially with Peggy having been a distributor.

Researchers can not give you half answers to their research. However they can construe it to a way that is beneficial for them or whoever paid for it. Then it is up to you to read the research properly. If you are so interested in what the research states, make sure you know how to READ the information given accordingly.

I don't understand the hostility in this post
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:13 PM

Very interesting....So now the name Peggy came up with that happens to be associated with their powder and so Peggy is misleading people by call her new diets close to what was her original diet? Sounds like they are riding on Peggys coat tails.

Also how do we know these levels are toxic for gliders? Do they have research to back up their claim? Where are their studies?

Or are we just suppose to believe them because they are from australia and therefore most know more about gliders?
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:17 PM

First of all you are reading hostility in my post. Please remove what your feelings out of my post. I specifically said I was not being rude and said I would do the same myself. Please do not call me a liar, it is not appreciated.

As for the curse word in my comment, I am very sorry for that, it was not my intention and I will remove it immediately.

I will respond to the rest in a minute.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:22 PM

If you will edit your post, my curse word will not be there anymore. Again I am sorry for that.

On to your post. What law is she breaking by not telling people what is in her products?

Where is she not taking the proper steps and not doing what the law dictates?

I asked for the specific law, not that your meaning was unclear.

Dont you think it is up to Passwell to seek trademark issues and not the glider community? She definitely shouldn't have to change the name because the glider community feels like it is a trademark issue. if it is and Passwell seeks retribution then that is Peggy's problem, not the glider community's.

I also notified the moderators so they could know that that word got around their censors.
Posted By: Pockets

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:27 PM

Valore

Might I advise speaking with the Wombaroo Company directly for the answers you desire.

Where do you think Peggy came up with her 'HPW' - maybe ask her as she personally thanked me.

I had the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement imported into the USA through legal channels back in 2000 which took over a years time - imported it for my 'PML' which was a modified Leadbeater's mixture from Des Hackett's original Leadbeater's mixture.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:31 PM

Lets just call it here's peggys way ,gliders lover's food ^_^* be cute like she said before
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:33 PM

Pockets,

I just find it interesting that they claimed all this in their letter to you (or was it to someone else?) but did not offer proof to back it up. Maybe I can find some information when I get back from class.

You helped Peggy come up with the HPW name?

i know you helped a bit with the diet but did not realize it went that far.

Also Peggy has mentioned on LGG that she is looking into the letter and its contents, just for people who do not go to LGG know.
Posted By: Gizmogirl

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:58 PM

Please don't let this get out of hand or we will have no choice but to lock this thread.

Originally Posted By: Rule 4
GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means illegal substances, illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, policing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board. Take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the PM feature. Since we are a G rated board, the decision has been made not to allow any web blog links like below due to non G rated material on them.

no news links or web blogs Myspace
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**** We cannot possibly cover every website individually so any website which leads to non G-rated material will be removed ****


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Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 06:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Pockets
Received the following last evening from very dear and concerned friends - this makes my blood boil & endangers glider's sure makes one wonder who these
so-called experts are -



Thanks for your enquiry regarding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement. Please find attached datasheet with
information about this product.

Our product is often used as part of the High Protein Wombaroo (HPW) diet for Sugar Gliders.

The new products that you sent us a link to (HPW Plus and HPW Complete) are not Wombaroo products and we
do not have any information about them. However by using the term “HPW” in their product we believe that
are clearly misleading customers that there is some link to the tried and tested Wombaroo product
(after all the “W” in HPW stands for Wombaroo). A quick comparison of the composition of these products
indicates some sort of attempt to copy the Wombaroo formula, eg protein, fat and fibre contents all about
the same. However there are some major discrepancies in the vitamins and minerals quoted on the
“ingredients” page of their website eg the HPW Plus quotes a minimum Vitamin A level of 15%, and the
HPW Complete has 10%. These are ridiculously high numbers, and hopefully are just a typo (otherwise it
would be at toxic levels). More insidious, are the levels of Selenium at 0.15% in the HPW Plus diet
(which equates to 1.5 grams per kilogram). This is 10,000 times the concentration in our product, which
would almost certainly be at a toxic level. Vitamin A and Selenium are just 2 of the listed
micro-nutrients, we fear there could be problems with some of the others.

I would urge caution using a product with such inaccurate technical information. They could be genuinely
careless mistakes or otherwise indicate an inability to undertake the basic calculations required to
formulate a nutritional product.

Regards,

Gordon Rich.






This should make everybody take a moment to rethink feeding this, if all of this is true. I see no reason they'd lie to us though. shakehead
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:07 PM

Who's Gordon Rich. Sorry I dont know but like to learn who he is ??
Posted By: Bozeman

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:12 PM

I also would like to know!
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:14 PM

o good glad I am not only one that doesnt know , was feeling a little dumb since I try to google his name lol . But I am just wondering who he is and why I need to care what he writes ?? Not trying to be rude just really like to know to help us understand more thank you .
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:15 PM

Based from the following quote, I was under the assumption he worked with/for Wombaroo in AU.

Quote:
Thanks for your enquiry regarding Wombaroo High Protein Supplement



Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:16 PM

ok thank you
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:18 PM

Originally Posted By: vhenke11
But I am just wondering who he is and why I need to care what he writes ?? Not trying to be rude just really like to know to help us understand more thank you .

I think it's important to care what ANY person says when in regards to stuff like this. Then we can build from it and learn more. Kind of like we are currently doing, in regards to him and his tie into having this knowledge.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:29 PM

[/quote]
I think it's important to care what ANY person says when in regards to stuff like this. Then we can build from it and learn more. Kind of like we are currently doing, in regards to him and his tie into having this knowledge. [/quote]

I think you misunderstanding what I was trying to say. I was just trying to understand who he is and what impoints he has on this . Not saying I dont care or do . I just dont know anything about him so was hoping to be in lighten .
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:31 PM

http://www.wombaroo.com.au/about_us.htm

This will tell you who is Passwell, and who is Gordon Rich, as well as the rest of the "staff" and their qualifications.
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:33 PM

Ok thank you very much Dancing
Posted By: CritterHill

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:33 PM

Quote:
Gordon Rich joined the company in 2005 and has experience as a Chemical Engineer in the processing and manufacturing sector.


http://www.wombaroo.com.au/about_us.htm
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:38 PM

This is really big info.
And he's basically who I thought. Thank you for clarifying. smile
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:43 PM

She has stated she has made an error. I believe it is now fixed on her website.
Posted By: wclanton423

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:44 PM

Just wondering, but if this wasn't Peggy's diet or the name didn't have HPW in it, would everyone be so up in arms about this? If you don't like it, don't use it.

BTW, Peggy sent the letter to her people and it was a typo error on her part:

The Guaranteed Analysis should read as follows:

Selenium Minimum 0.10 PPM
Vitamin A Mimimum 10 KIU/LB
Posted By: vhenke11

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:45 PM

smile
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:49 PM

Thanks for that info Catherine. I've never gone to their website.
Posted By: carolinasuggies

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:52 PM

Just FYI for everyone talking about the manufacturers not needing to be known CHECK ALL YOUR FOOD PRODUCTS I have been checking food products in my kitchen ALL DAY and pretty much EVERYTHING has the manufacturers name and address on it! Not sure if it is required by law but I think it probably is!
Posted By: CandyOtte

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:57 PM

I for one still hope the 15% vitamin A is indeed a typo on Peggy's web page and that the product does contain an appropriate amount of both Vitamin A and Selenium.

The concern that this may be a toxic dose of Vitamin A was called to Peggy's attention previously but no change or correction has been posted on her web page.

As it is posted on her web page - 15% by volume of ANY single vitamin in a food product is excessive.

That is not the same as most nutrition labeling we are used to reading where 15% of Vitamin A means that one serving of the food provides 15% of the total daily recommended (human) requirement based on a 2000 calorie diet.
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 07:58 PM

Directly from Peggy:


I would like to publicly thank Gordon Rich for pointing out the issue that was noted on the website of www.HPWPLUS.com

It was purely MY mistake in typing that has created such a concern for folks out there looking at the HPW Plus And HPW Complete.

The Guaranteed Analysis should read as follows:

Selenium Minimum 0.10 PPM
Vitamin A Mimimum 10 KIU/LB


This was completely a typographical error on my part. Please rest assure that I am doing all I can to make sure that the product that is produced is Safe and Healthy not only for my own Sugar Gliders but for all of the others out there.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 08:27 PM

I'm glad it was just a typo.
I highly doubt Peggy would ever create something dangerous for gliders, then promote it and use it for her own gliders.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 08:30 PM

I received a 250g package of the HPW Plus yesterday - I made my first batch today - I noticed that MY label did NOT match what was PREVIOUSLY the www.hpwplus.com website (it has since been corrected) - on the website, it was apparently listed INCORRECTLY (due to a typo) with Selenium and Vitamin A as a PERCENTAGE when on MY PACKAGE it shows Selenium as PPM and Vitamin A as KIU/LB and NOT as a "percentage" and I have photos of my packaging to confirm this:





And all I have to say about it is: EVERYONE makes mistakes - even big corporations and small businesses can have website typos or bad first days in business or stuff like that... the mistake was a typo on the website - the actual labels are CORRECT at least for the PLUS (I cannot confirm for the COMPLETE as I do not have a package of it in front of me - though I do intend to get some next week). smile

As for laws requiring a manufacturer to be listed on packaging - I only found ONE item in my "pet pantry" that has anything listed for manufacturer (a bottle of Thirsty Cricket says "manufactured by) - most items ONLY have info for the distributor:













I then checked my "human pantry" - most items say NOTHING but the name of the company and a website with NO preceding "manufacturing or distributing" mentioned, and those that do say something, say "manufactured for" (on a box of Girl Scout Cookies for example) or "distributed by" (on a bottle of Winn-Dixie brand Mustard) - I won't bore you with THOSE pics unless you ask smile

As for calling things by the same name - most tissues are commonly called a Kleenex - but that is a brand name, not the name of the item... Jell-O isn't an item, it is a brand of gelatin yet most folks call it ALL "Jell-O"... Linoleum in actually a brand not a product as well... and then you have a "type" of shirt called a "polo" when Polo was originally a brand name for that type of shirt. Peggy has NOT claimed her HPW Plus or HPW Complete are or have anything to do with "Wombaroo High Protein Supplement" - The people who make Wombaroo High Protein Supplement did not create the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" - they just make a product called Wombaroo High Protein Supplement that is part OF the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" - no matter what "most folks" assume the W in the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" stands for, Peggy's new diet can be called anything she wants as long as she is not committing trademark infringement (which she is not - the name "HPW" was "coined" by PEGGY and was not created or "coined" by the people who make Wombaroo powder [they have just enjoyed the benefits of being associated with it for many years] and the name HPW has NEVER been trademarked or registered) and it is the consumer's responsibility to do their research and decide what diet to feed and where to get the ingredients for it... period.
Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 09:51 PM

Quote:
As for calling things by the same name - most tissues are commonly called a Kleenex - but that is a brand name, not the name of the item... Jell-O isn't an item, it is a brand of gelatin yet most folks call it ALL "Jell-O"... Linoleum in actually a brand not a product as well... and then you have a "type" of shirt called a "polo" when Polo was originally a brand name for that type of shirt. Peggy has NOT claimed her HPW Plus or HPW Complete are or have anything to do with "Wombaroo High Protein Supplement" - The people who make Wombaroo High Protein Supplement did not create the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" - they just make a product called Wombaroo High Protein Supplement that is part OF the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" - no matter what "most folks" assume the W in the "original diet commonly referred to as HPW" stands for, Peggy's new diet can be called anything she wants as long as she is not committing trademark infringement (which she is not - the name "HPW" was "coined" by PEGGY and was not created or "coined" by the people who make Wombaroo powder [they have just enjoyed the benefits of being associated with it for many years] and the name HPW has NEVER been trademarked or registered) and it is the consumer's responsibility to do their research and decide what diet to feed and where to get the ingredients for it... period.


Well said!!!
Posted By: jacknsally

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 10:48 PM

Originally Posted By: wclanton423
Just wondering, but if this wasn't Peggy's diet or the name didn't have HPW in it, would everyone be so up in arms about this? If you don't like it, don't use it.


I don't think it has anything to do with Peggy. People are just concerned, that's how I'm taking it.

Would you buy a brand new type of dog food that your neighbor was using/selling but they can't share the information with you on where it's coming from. I would hope not!!
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 10:53 PM

I honestly think it has A LOT to do with Peggy and A LOT do with HPW.

But that is my personal opinion.

Great post Julie!
Posted By: wclanton423

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 11:07 PM

I just don't remember this much stink when Candy came out with her diet. I'm using Candy as an example since I wasn't around when alot of the older diets came about. Was the community this upset over the other diets?
Posted By: queenduck

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 11:07 PM

I find it sad they two people in our community report they received the email with the dangerous percentages reported yet they DID NOT contact Peggy.


Yet the both know how to reach Peggy. And even if the had 'lost' Peggy's phone numbers, email address, or way to on of her many pm boxes... they knew who to call to get her phone numbers.

So these percentages were high enough to cause serious and rapid damage.

Then why get the email last night/or even early this am and then not contact Peggy (not by a public post, but personaly) to warn PEGGY, the one responsible to sending it to gliders.

This would have prevented Peggy from sending all the tons of HPW Plus she did this am.

This would have given Peggy time to make a global public post, not an original criptic one to make people wonder and then later come in with the email.

This would have allowed Peggy time to call each customer last night or this am and warn them not to feed HPW Plus until she could find out if there was a real problem or as we know... find out she had typed it wrong.

And of course she would have contacted the manufactoring company and her team.

I know the manufactorying company, I know who her vets are and I know a lot of the actual testing that has been done and some of what is continuing to be done.

I can't tell you exactly why she won't tell everyone, but she has told some of us. She probably is being stuborn because like many of you out there, she doesn't trust you, as you don't trust her. It's a two way street. And because she doesn't have to release the manufactoring company. That is my guess.
Posted By: sunjana1

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/03/11 11:49 PM

Originally Posted By: queenduck
I can't tell you exactly why she won't tell everyone, but she has told some of us. She probably is being stuborn because like many of you out there, she doesn't trust you, as you don't trust her. It's a two way street. And because she doesn't have to release the manufactoring company. That is my guess.


Ok, what? This thread has been VERY interesting to me as a new glider owner. But objectively, looking at this kind of statement, its pretty easy to see why there's so much uproar over this. Secrecy, exclusion, and spite are recipe's (forgive the pun) for disaster in any context.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 12:04 AM

Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Originally Posted By: wclanton423
Just wondering, but if this wasn't Peggy's diet or the name didn't have HPW in it, would everyone be so up in arms about this? If you don't like it, don't use it.


I don't think it has anything to do with Peggy. People are just concerned, that's how I'm taking it.

Would you buy a brand new type of dog food that your neighbor was using/selling but they can't share the information with you on where it's coming from. I would hope not!!


Just commenting to say that I absolutely agree with you.
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 12:08 AM

Originally Posted By: wclanton423
I just don't remember this much stink when Candy came out with her diet. I'm using Candy as an example since I wasn't around when alot of the older diets came about. Was the community this upset over the other diets?


Candy was not creating a brand new product -- she was using products that have already been used in other diets. The only exception being the NOW Calcium carbonate -- but she wasn't the one that created that.

With this, it's a whole new product.
Sorry, but... even if my very best friend in the world created a new pet food for any of my animals, I'd want details before I even considered it.
Posted By: KarenE

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 12:19 AM

None of the other diets, Candy's included, are being manufactured and sold on the open market.

Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 12:25 AM

I do not see how that makes it any different?
Posted By: WintersSong

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 12:39 AM

I see a big difference between:

"Here's a recipe using these products that are already on the market, that you can do research on."

and

"Here's a recipe using this brand new product that is still being tested, and that I am not allowed to tell you much about now".

These are, of course, not exact quotes. They are not intended to put words into any
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 01:19 AM

I guess thats where we differ.

I see it as "Here I found a bunch of stuff already in everyones diet and I am going to mix it around and call it my own diet!"

to

"I have worked really hard to formulate something that I think will be beneficial to everyone. Preliminary testing is done and I was given the go ahead to introduce it. We are still doing MORE testing and as soon as I get that info you will have it. Heres a sample if you want to try it."

I just feel like instead of thinking the best of Peggy, most (not all) have wanted to run her in the ground.

Its great if you have questions. ASK THEM!!! If you like the answers buy the product. If you don't then dont! Dont recommend it and dont buy it.

If tests come out and you then see that you do like it, then start using it if that is your choice.

A lot (not everyone) of people aren't just asking questions and thats a problem.

IMHO
Posted By: Pockets

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 01:48 AM

thrilled and relieved that Peggy's ingredient listing was a typo - Gordon & others are concerned as you could see.


I have always believed the Wombaroo Company as well as people on GC have our sugar glider's well-being as a
top priority and believe most do respect others efforts in business with the creating and making of many
different types of products - wheels, toys, pouches, cages, foods, etc...

Also have seen issues thru the years with others duplicating and selling several of the above items,
that said,
I have personally been involved with the Wombaroo company for almost 15 yrs having friends in both Australia as well as the USA with glider's, macropods - wallabies, kangaroos, wombats, tree kangaroos,etc...
who have relied upon Wombaroo's many products thru the years - as do several zoological parks worldwide especially in regards to endangered fauna.

Certainly am having some problems with others that wish to duplicate an excellent Wombaroo product and some people
here who seem to feel that this is an okay practice in this instance, I have no issues with the creation of a
new and possibly better product, but please do not duplicate another companies product.

Find it difficult to trust others whose actions appear to be doing exactly that - even with the glider's best interest in mind there are boundries we just do not cross.
Posted By: Sherri

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 02:25 AM

Originally Posted By: Pockets
Certainly am having some problems with others that wish to duplicate an excellent Wombaroo product and some people
here who seem to feel that this is an okay practice in this instance, I have no issues with the creation of a
new and possibly better product, but please do not duplicate another companies product, as that is dishonest
and called thievery in my book!

Find it difficult to trust others whose actions appear to be doing exactly that - even with the glider's best interest in mind there are boundries we just do not cross.




I find that to be one of the most redundant statements that I have ever heard! Using a statement like that is like telling other companies or business that they can not duplicate ANYTHING that is out there.

I cannot make basic cage sets because Jen makes them, or Cheryl makes them, or Tracy makes them. I can't buy a Sony t.v because Panasonic makes them. I can't buy a blender from KitchenAid because Procter Silex makes them. I can't buy a Ford moldel car because Chevy makes cars too! I can't buy Mountain Dew from Pepsi because Coke makes Mellow Yellow.

I'm sorry that you feel that way Debbie, but there is always room for new and better products!
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 05:16 AM

Quote:
I cannot make basic cage sets because Jen makes them, or Cheryl makes them, or Tracy makes them.


But would you be ok with making and selling Sissy Pouches? Sissy pouches are unique. Wambaroo High Protein Suppliment is unique. It is not a "basic suppliment powder".

Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 06:00 AM

What makes it so special? Is it because it's for marsupials?

What about reptile vitamins? Are there more than one of those?

What abut pregnancy vitamins....how many brands of those are out there?

What about the ketchup at your table? How many brands of ketchup are out there?
Posted By: Dancing

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 07:42 AM

I guess by that reasoning, all items made for gliders are now up for grabs for whoever wants to make and sell them regardless who came up with the idea or how much testing and research they put into them.

Sissy's are fair game? CocoPeeps are fair game? Snuggle Bunny pouches are fair game?

Seems same same to me.

Peggy didn't come up with this on her own, she copied Wambaroo.
Posted By: Glide_Bye_Lily

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 08:12 AM

This whole thread is seriously rediculous. Did anyone ever say that regular WHPS would no longer be produced? No.
Did anyone say that you could no longer buy Australian WHPS since this was being made? No
Did anyone ever say that you had to switch your gliders to this diet? No.
Did anyone say that what you are feeding is flawed since this came out? No.


You think Peggy copied Wombaroo and don't like it: Don't feed it.
You don't like that she's not telling who manufactures it or who's funding the research: Don't feed it.
You don't like the ingredients: Don't feed it.

It's simple people!

Honestly, no one cares if you decide not to feed it. It's really (believe it or not) not hurting anyone if you choose not to.

It's sad that many people feel that the world is going to stop if they tell it to. shakehead
Posted By: JillMarie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Dancing
I guess by that reasoning, all items made for gliders are now up for grabs for whoever wants to make and sell them regardless who came up with the idea or how much testing and research they put into them.

Sissy's are fair game? CocoPeeps are fair game? Snuggle Bunny pouches are fair game?

Seems same same to me.

Peggy didn't come up with this on her own, she copied Wambaroo.


you forgot the "Hideaway Pouch" LOL

There seems to be so much emotion on this thread that it has become tiring to read it all.

While I am an advocate for good discussion, and like to play devil's advocate so that friendly "debates" can be created, and hear both sides to the situation, we really need to be more objective here.

I understand why so many are upset over this. Truly I do. But the important issue for all of us is whether or not this is a healthy diet for our gliders.

I am not going to condone or condemn Peggy for this. Would I be upset if someone took one of my cookies, tried to copy the recipe and then market it as their own? YES! Is this what Peggy did with Wombaroo? I dont know really. Is it right or wrong? That is not my place to judge. That is between her and the God she serves.

I would love to see all the emotion dropped from this discussion, and keep it on track about whether or not this is a healthy/safe diet.

We have alot of new members here, and more joining everyday, and they may not want to sift through all the side dishes to get to the meat of a matter.

So continue the debate. Be factual. Voice your opinions/experiences. But remember there are many here that are going to go UGH DRAMA and not benefit from the many years of experience we all have to offer.
Posted By: Bozeman

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 09:12 AM

Originally Posted By: JillMarie
Originally Posted By: Dancing
I guess by that reasoning, all items made for gliders are now up for grabs for whoever wants to make and sell them regardless who came up with the idea or how much testing and research they put into them.

Sissy's are fair game? CocoPeeps are fair game? Snuggle Bunny pouches are fair game?

Seems same same to me.

Peggy didn't come up with this on her own, she copied Wambaroo.


you forgot the "Hideaway Pouch" LOL

There seems to be so much emotion on this thread that it has become tiring to read it all.

While I am an advocate for good discussion, and like to play devil's advocate so that friendly "debates" can be created, and hear both sides to the situation, we really need to be more objective here.

I understand why so many are upset over this. Truly I do. But the important issue for all of us is whether or not this is a healthy diet for our gliders.

I am not going to condone or condemn Peggy for this. Would I be upset if someone took one of my cookies, tried to copy the recipe and then market it as their own? YES! Is this what Peggy did with Wombaroo? I dont know really. Is it right or wrong? That is not my place to judge. That is between her and the God she serves.

I would love to see all the emotion dropped from this discussion, and keep it on track about whether or not this is a healthy/safe diet.

We have alot of new members here, and more joining everyday, and they may not want to sift through all the side dishes to get to the meat of a matter.

So continue the debate. Be factual. Voice your opinions/experiences. But remember there are many here that are going to go UGH DRAMA and not benefit from the many years of experience we all have to offer.


Good point!
Posted By: glidrz5

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 09:18 AM

Quote:
I find it funny how people "want to see the results" yet they are comfotable with products that have never been researched. Yet many of you feed your Gliders the HPW diet which was created by the same person that created the HPW plus/complete.


Actually the HPW diet is taken from the PML diet created by Pockets who based it on the Taratonga Zoo diet in Austrailia. The only difference that I'm aware of is the addition of bee pollen and an extra egg.
Posted By: LabNGliderMom

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 03:37 PM

No, actually, that is NOT correct -

Quote:
actually the HPW diet is from the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement that was used in the PML diet created by Pockets.
(from LGG by SRLB)

Regardless, this is NOT a "copy" of Wombaroo powder IMO - I mean, everyone has been commenting on the difference between the ingredients, right? This is a WHOLE NEW diet - it just happens to be called something similar to what Peggy's OLD diet was called as far as I can see.

I agree with whoever it was that said it is unfair that CandyOtte got less flak for creating the blended diet - and it is NOT fair - she may have used stuff already common to the glider world, but it was still a WHOLE NEW diet - and she got WAY less than THIS - which makes it obvious to me the issue is the CREATOR and not the DIET. how sad. frown

Look - I hate to beat a dead horse here, but it really IS a matter of "feed it if you want - don't feed it if you don't want" and that is that - other than people who have a specific question about ingredients or preparation or where to get the diet stuff OR comments by people who feed it as to thumbs up or thumbs down, I really see no need for further discussion about it... especially when it involves finger pointing, sarcasm, accusations, bashing, flaming, or any of that sort of thing - like JillMarie commented - I'd love to see this get off the emotional roller coaster and back on the reasonable merry-go-round. smile
Posted By: MizValorie

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 05:02 PM

laugh
Posted By: queenduck

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 05:42 PM

Teresa, I see your point. I do. And I've never been one to encoourage someone to copy anothers product (except in the Stealth Wheel case and I said I was sorry and I mean it).

So I do see your point, I do. And it is an interesting story.

When someone copies my Sissy Pouch, it's usually a friend, and that hurts. But... it is what it is and I am not going to sue, there is nothing I can do about it that is for sure. So I'd rather people don't do it, esp. those who claim to be my friends, but... I can't stop them.

As for Wombaroo HP suppliment, the only reason I feel it is OK, and I even have a tough time saying that, is because Wombaroo has a monopoly on the product. One that MANY of us feel we can't live without.

Wombaroo only sells to Geoff, he marks it up and then sells to his disributors, and then mark it up. And then after 2 mark ups... we the peole who really need it get to buy it.

There was a shortage once in the past and we scrambled to stock pile enough to get us by. I always have to worry in the back of my mind that someday we won't be able to get it, they will run short, Geoff will mark it up. We are held hostage to Wombaroo.

With Critterlove selling it we now have another OPTION. I have no problem with the original Wombaroo HP suppliment, none at all. The product has served me well for many many years. I still use it, I may continue to only use it. But I now have options. There is a back up plan.

And then that she has fixed the ratios, that is an added benift, I won't complain. It might turn out to be a really great change, only time will tell.

So yes, part of me has issues with it but those issues are not as strong as the pros I can see.

I don't think anyone is asking you to use it. If you are morally against copying someone's product, like the Sissy pouch or Stealth wheel, I understand. If not, try it.

If you won't use it because you suspect a mill breeder had a part in it. Then don't use it. If you don't have a problem with working with a mill breeding, use it.

If you have a problem with using a diet that doesn't have fully released data availbable, don't use it. But if you don't have a problem with that type of diet, use it.

It is choice, an option. No one is forcing anyone to try it, use it, switch completely. No one is saying that original Wombaroo HP suppliment is bad, it isn't. It's till bombdiggity to me.
Posted By: Anonymous

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 05:47 PM

Peggy "copied" Wombaroo?!?!? Hmmm ...well so does Wal Marts "great value" brand of foods...read the labels...they clearly say ON the WalMart brands packages "compare to *insert product*"...the same thing can and be applied to Peggy's powder and Wombaroo. She has a new product SIMILAR to Wombaroo as far as I can see.

Peggy has given the ingredient list...Peggy has posted on her site the guaranteed analysis for ALL of us to read...Peggy posted a FAQ....so what is really the problem here people??

Quote:
which makes it obvious to me the issue is the CREATOR and not the diet. how sad.



No kidding! I ordered HPW Plus from Peggy and I cant wait to get it. When I switched diets from BML to the HPW a few years ago I was thrilled with the results and my gliders were looking better, no leftovers in the bowls 99% of the time and vet checks proved they were all doing great. If Peggys new powder does the same thing and my vet sees no health/nutrition problems....GREAT! To me that's what matters most.

Those of you who are going to stick to the ORIGINAL HPW using the Wombaroo brand...go for it...those of you who use the Blended Diet...great....BML, Reep's...etc etc ETC...this is not the end all be all of diets....there's plenty out there to choose from and if you like the diets you feed, and your GLIDERS like it and thrive on it....that's wonderful!!!

It's really really sad seeing so many ppl in this community bashing Peggy because she is choosing to keep CERTAIN things under wrap FOR NOW...I havent seen her post anything saying she would NEVER EVER reveal any results in the future...
Posted By: gliderdad79

Re: HOLY CRACKERS AMERICAN HPW's - 03/04/11 09:29 PM

This post is being closed and a new one is being started. You may find it by clicking the link below. The new thread will not go in the same direction this one did. Posts will be removed and pm's will be sent for violations in the new thread.


http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/1080912#Post1080912
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