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Different Shades of Gray #987964
08/07/10 01:44 PM
08/07/10 01:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
Another topic got me thinking about our dear grays:

Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel


I am not talking about chocolate, buttercream, black beauty, lion, or any other legitimate coloration of grey. I just want to know the facts behind cinnamon coloring.




You know what? I think they are all just different shades of the same color. I'm not convinced that any of these gray variations are actually colors of their own. I know a darker colored glider might have darker colored joeys (hence black beauty) however the chocolate, mocha cappuccino, etc. seem to be just individual variations and not a true genetic color. I know that there are some breeders who have had luck getting these colors to have joeys of a similar color, however I believe that it is like people with blond hair.... some may be lighter or darker or more strawberry than others, but it's all blonde wink

Here are some of my standard grays (mind you, none of my guys are stained in these photos)


Baloo (left) his joey (right)




Dark Joey:




Basil:




And here is the most "classic gray" one I've ever had:



Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: oakley] #989082
08/10/10 05:08 AM
08/10/10 05:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
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Gizmogirl  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
Interesting, my grays are mostly different shades too.


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Gizmogirl] #989104
08/10/10 07:25 AM
08/10/10 07:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
StitchsMom  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
I tend to agree that black beauties, brownies, buttercream etc all seem to be varieties of gray coloration. agree I do think there are legitimate lion colored gliders though.


~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: StitchsMom] #989223
08/10/10 12:57 PM
08/10/10 12:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
True buttercreams are not just a variation of grey. They are a very pretty "toffee" coloring. Sunny, my Everest's father, was a true buttercream and soooo gorgous. His coloring was so different and unique. I don't believe there are very many true buttercreams out there though and like cinnimon, I believe stained gliders are often mistaken for buttercream.

Everest is a grey (with a wt) but he had a beautiful little wf/buttercream joey. You could tell immediately that she was not "standard grey".


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Dancing] #989376
08/10/10 06:55 PM
08/10/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
Teresa,

That's certainly interesting. I do believe that there are some truly pretty gliders out there that came from "grey" parents. Do you think that two buttercreames will produce more buttercreames or do you think it is just a luck of the draw?

I've seen some very pretty reddish brown tones, but I', not sure if you can actually breed for it.


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: oakley] #989409
08/10/10 08:38 PM
08/10/10 08:38 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict
cinnamonstix  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
My Fern is out of a brown father and a buttercream mother and she is definitely not a standard grey.

Pics at 8 weeks OOP


More grown up here:

Pic 1-Fern and Willow (light faced standard grey)
Pic 2- Fern
Pic 3- Fern & Nemo (Leu)
Pic 4- Meeko (BB), Fern & Willow-can you find her? She looks so different!


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: cinnamonstix] #989415
08/10/10 08:57 PM
08/10/10 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Yes, true buttercreams, like lions will produce buttercream offspring. There are also het for buttercream and it only takes ONE to pass on the gene.

Everest is a wt grey/ het for buttercream. He was paired with a 2nd gen wfb/wt het. They had a little wf buttercream.

She was paired with a 3rd gen wfb and they had a wf/wt joey.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Dancing] #989462
08/10/10 10:46 PM
08/10/10 10:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
StitchsMom  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
That's interesting, Teresa. When I was a new member (back in the stone age), I was obsessed with buttercreams. I thought the idea of a creamy colored glider was fascinating. It's just so rare to see a "true" one, you know? I sort of feel the same way about wfb's, not to stray off topic. There are a lot of white face gliders out there, but white faced blonds that are really blond seem pretty rare in my humble opinion.


~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: StitchsMom] #989503
08/11/10 12:11 AM
08/11/10 12:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Jenny, you are right. WF and WFB seem to have become interchangeable and they are two very different things.

My 4.5 gen wf gliders are so light silver they are far removed from the wfb's their line originated from.

WFB's have a creamy hue to their "white" fur. And their "grey" fur has a slight tan-ish tint to it. It just isn't seen very much anymore.

Mostly what we have now are WFGreys. But WF can be a trait in all colors of gliders. Blondes, Cinnies, Mosaics, even leus (though you won't be able to see it).


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Dancing] #989549
08/11/10 05:02 AM
08/11/10 05:02 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Well now I'm confused. What's the difference between a WFB and a WF?

I ask because I was led to the belief that my Tempo is a WFB.

Here's a pic.


Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Dancing] #989577
08/11/10 09:57 AM
08/11/10 09:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
MizValorie Offline
Glider Addict
MizValorie  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,579
Sherman, Texas
This is the difference.
Originally Posted By: Dancing

WFB's have a creamy hue to their "white" fur. And their "grey" fur has a slight tan-ish tint to it. It just isn't seen very much anymore.


Wf are more silvery. And it depends which line you get them from. Most of mine come from the Sir Lance line and my two eldest have powdered out (they are 3 now)

Yours looks like a WF *to me*.

Last edited by MizValorie; 08/11/10 10:00 AM. Reason: added info

Valorie and our 10 fur children

RIP Mary Kate
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: MizValorie] #989603
08/11/10 10:53 AM
08/11/10 10:53 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
WF is the trait of no ear bar. It can be on any "color" of glider.

There can be wf grey, wf blonde, wf mosaic, wf buttercream, wf lion, etc...

I think MOST of the wf gliders being sold are wf greys. WF blonde is not very common anymore. That is why I said that wf and wfb are becoming interchangeable.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: MizValorie] #989627
08/11/10 12:50 PM
08/11/10 12:50 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted By: MizValorie
This is the difference.
Originally Posted By: Dancing

WFB's have a creamy hue to their "white" fur. And their "grey" fur has a slight tan-ish tint to it. It just isn't seen very much anymore.


Wf are more silvery. And it depends which line you get them from. Most of mine come from the Sir Lance line and my two eldest have powdered out (they are 3 now)

Yours looks like a WF *to me*.



I don't know how I missed that description when I read the entire thread. Apparently I was more exhausted than I initially thought. tounge

Ok, then Miss Tempo is a WF, not a WFB.
Makes sense with the description. Either way, she's just beautiful. I especially love the break in the stripe on both her forehead and again on her back. I think it's adorable.

Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: ] #989633
08/11/10 01:03 PM
08/11/10 01:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
There are so many ways to look at this topic. I've never seen a true buttercream or cinnie so I can't really comment but as I breed FOR lion I will go there. I think that you can't have a lion out of two gliders with no lion lineage. That true lion is rare but is its own color. I think you can have a lion out of parents that only "kind of" display the color but have the lineage to back it up. Abby is out of a true lion and a wf, and Zach is out of a true lion and a lion colored female. Abby was the only girl who was born out of her parents with real lion color to her and Zach is in a long line of lion joeys, one of the last out of his parents. I've had nothing but true lions out of the pair and I feel very lucky to have them. Sometimes if you pair lion and lion it still doesn't work, I've seen this happen with pairs that don't display the color but have the genetics. Some people might think its a trick of my camera but I've shown my babies off in person and their color is true.


Here is a picture of mommy:





~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Laurens_Babies] #989730
08/11/10 05:00 PM
08/11/10 05:00 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Ok so talking to some glider buddies I got a new question.

We've read/been told that the more WF generations in a glider, the lighter their coat becomes. Any idea if any of this is true?

I was told by a breeder who messaged me that my Tempo is a wf plat. Makes sense. It's already been determined she's a WF. And she has that silver-y color to be a plat.

If it holds any merit, Tempo is a 5th generation WF.

Thanks. Just with every question answered, another question arises. smile

Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: ] #989775
08/11/10 07:10 PM
08/11/10 07:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
I have 4.5 gen wf joeys born here that are very silvery in color.

Platinum is another color all together and although higher generation wf gliders are more silvery, unless they have platinum in their back ground, they are just that, very silvery wf gliders, not platinums.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Dancing] #989810
08/11/10 08:13 PM
08/11/10 08:13 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



She does have platinum in her background. Haley was her great great grandma. If you look up Tempo in the petglider database, you will see Perfection as her father. If you click on him you'll see that Haley was his great grandma.

I don't know since it's so far back.... Ideas..?

Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: ] #989822
08/11/10 08:40 PM
08/11/10 08:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
To be 100% honest the breeder would have known if this joey was a plat when he/she was born and you would have paid like 5,000+ dollars. Gliders don't just become plats.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Laurens_Babies] #989828
08/11/10 08:53 PM
08/11/10 08:53 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Actually, she was given to me. The parents are owned by a friend.

Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: ] #989829
08/11/10 08:55 PM
08/11/10 08:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
No she is not a platinum.

She is a very light WF. Very pretty light WF but not a platinum.

This is my WF platinum, he is a very basic platinum color. Not dark and not super light:





The stripes on platinums are very thin and light. Generally only a shade or so lighter than the rest of the silver body.

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 08/11/10 08:56 PM.

Allie
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Laurens_Babies] #989841
08/11/10 09:26 PM
08/11/10 09:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
This is all really interesting to me. I've never seen a lion, buttercreme, etc in person, but I have seen some beautiful photos.


I have had some very dark joeys, and some brown and reddish tones, but I've never pursued the colors any further (as in breeding for colors)


It would be very neat to see how strong these colors could get if we started trying to breed for them. I'd love to see a really creamy color "buttercream" with a creamy colored face and underbelly, and a tan-colored stripe... wouldn't that be something!


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Different Shades of Gray [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #989844
08/11/10 09:36 PM
08/11/10 09:36 PM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Thank you. I appreciate your honest, respectful answer. smile


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