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Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? #979810
07/23/10 06:48 AM
07/23/10 06:48 AM

J
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
J



Hi everyone. I was just wondering if it was ok to breed 2 mosaics together? I have two precious little mosaic boys and i'd love to get them each a little mosaic girlfriend. I've been reading a bunch about mosaics and breeding them and what not and I know that you can get a mosaic by pairing them with standards or wfbs but i figure the chances of getting a mosaic out of 2 mosaics would be a little higher.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #979817
07/23/10 07:09 AM
07/23/10 07:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,214
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,214
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Jessica...I can't give you breeding information because my knowledge is very limited. We've been here before, though, and from past discussions, we know that you don't have lineage on your gliders and members have already advised you to have your boys neutered. My advice - neuter and don't breed. Simple as that.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: DCMuffin] #979826
07/23/10 07:43 AM
07/23/10 07:43 AM

J
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
J



These are my 2 new boys that I recently got and these guys DO have lineage. That's why I was asking because I want to get 2 more suggies to pair them with that hae lineage as well instead of putting them with my leu girls. No one ever said anything about getting them neutered.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #979828
07/23/10 07:52 AM
07/23/10 07:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
The purpose of breeding is to improve lineages and get high quality animals.

By your inquiry about breeding two mosaics together, it sounds like you are only interested in the money that can be made from that pairing.

You need to be ready to accept the responsibilities of breeding, and by your refusal to do so with your other pair (neuter him), it does not give the other breeders out here much confidence that you will do what is best for the new gliders.

As a dominant gene, mosaic does not NEED to be paired to another mosaic. And since there is only one non-sterile line, you should not be breeding mosaics together, especially as a new breeder.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: wildlifeangel] #979829
07/23/10 07:58 AM
07/23/10 07:58 AM

J
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
JessicaMoss
Unregistered
J



I'm so not in it for the money. The main reason i'm breeding is so that I can give my gliders babies to my friends and family. I already have one of my little leu girls a new with one of my friends. Why is it that you can't come here and ask a simple question without people biting your head off. It's really offensive to accuse me of only being in it for the money when I don't plan on charging anyone for them.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ] #979831
07/23/10 08:00 AM
07/23/10 08:00 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Bozeman Offline
Glider Slave
Bozeman  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Originally Posted By: JessicaMoss
Hi everyone. I was just wondering if it was ok to breed 2 mosaics together? I have two precious little mosaic boys and i'd love to get them each a little mosaic girlfriend. I've been reading a bunch about mosaics and breeding them and what not and I know that you can get a mosaic by pairing them with standards or wfbs but i figure the chances of getting a mosaic out of 2 mosaics would be a little higher.


Hey everyone, please keep your replies ON TOPIC.



:grey: Casper (Bozeman) & Liezl (Gizmogirl):grey:
www.sugarglider.co.za
hug2

A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language


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RIP: Sugar (2009) :grey:
You unfairly passed too young - your passing saved many gliders and will continue to do so
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Bozeman] #979840
07/23/10 08:12 AM
07/23/10 08:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
B19 Offline
Glider Lover
B19  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
I'm still learning about breeding, and from my research my opinion is I woulnd't breed two mosaics together especially since its a dominant gene...you would have the possiblity of getting a mosaic out of a mo x classic grey pairing like you had said. smile


Brandi

Loving mother to:
:grey: "Ziggy" & "Teddy"
:rtmo: "Pebbles"
1 chocolate Lab: "Gracie Mae"
1 Min Pin: "Daisy Mae"
2 horses: "Scoots" & "Sisco"

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: B19] #979852
07/23/10 08:47 AM
07/23/10 08:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
As long as you have GOOD FULL lineage on both and they are a good pair up it is ok, I will open a new thread about the whole "just in it for money" subject in a few, I've had somethings to say about this for a bit.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: B19] #979855
07/23/10 08:51 AM
07/23/10 08:51 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i think everyone is against mo to mo breeding because there is alot of sterile gliders in the lines of mo's and that is why breeders are trying to breed out the mosaic lines to a non mosaic/leu.

example: their is a leu named annie, looking at her parents they are both mosaics and 100% leu hets. the mother mosaic has tilly in her line who is sterile.

the mosaic lines appear to be very weak, meaning there is sterlity in the background so to be safe it would be wise to breed your mosaics with anything but a mosaic or leu.

regards,
nancy in detroit

Last edited by hwh4ev; 07/23/10 08:52 AM.

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: B19] #979859
07/23/10 08:54 AM
07/23/10 08:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 680
michigan
cryingoutloud37 Offline
Glider Guardian
cryingoutloud37  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 680
michigan
I am wondering why you want to...........many,many breeders have mo after mo babies with just one mo in the breeding pair. Chances are you would produce many beautiful Mosaic babies with GC or WFB pairings. Why cross two lines if it isn't necessary?!?!?! Whether you are lookin to make money on the babies or not is really irrelevant! If you are not gonna sell the babies then why even chance a breeding two Mo's. An chances are if you did breed two together no one would want them. No one is angry personally at you. But the veteran members of this site have been at this for a very long time. They have learned from their an others mistakes. They have witnessed the lines going Sterile and they breed them out to make them viable again. A new breeder throwin caution to the wind for profit or just personal gratification upsets the breeders that worked so hard bringing the sterile lines back to producing.


-Shannon-


If everyone put their problems in a pile, you just might want to grab yours back!

http://www.motowngliders.com/

Lots of Beautiful and Sweet Gliders

Six Skin Kids: Jake, Alie, Nick, Samantha, Ben and Luci
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: cryingoutloud37] #979863
07/23/10 08:58 AM
07/23/10 08:58 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Breeding a mosaic to a grey of WF will still result in mosaic joeys 50% of the time. Crossing two lines of mosaic would pollute the lines, AND it would only bring the mosaics up to 75% of your joeys. It's not worth it.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: wildlifeangel] #979871
07/23/10 09:13 AM
07/23/10 09:13 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel
Breeding a mosaic to a grey of WF will still result in mosaic joeys 50% of the time. Crossing two lines of mosaic would pollute the lines, AND it would only bring the mosaics up to 75% of your joeys. It's not worth it.


It only pollutes the lines the same way breeding two wf's around, you only need ONE wf to make wf joeys yet we do wf to wf all the time. There are enough mosaic lines out there that it isn't a problem.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Laurens_Babies] #979873
07/23/10 09:21 AM
07/23/10 09:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 680
michigan
cryingoutloud37 Offline
Glider Guardian
cryingoutloud37  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 680
michigan
Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel
Breeding a mosaic to a grey of WF will still result in mosaic joeys 50% of the time. Crossing two lines of mosaic would pollute the lines, AND it would only bring the mosaics up to 75% of your joeys. It's not worth it.


It only pollutes the lines the same way breeding two wf's around, you only need ONE wf to make wf joeys yet we do wf to wf all the time. There are enough mosaic lines out there that it isn't a problem.



Honestly....isn't the real reason everyone is so adamant on JessicaMoss not doing this because of her past posts an her inexperience in breeding. If she consulted a veteran breeder when purchasing her Females an the breeder made sure both lines were clean it really wouldn't be a problem. There are breeders who have been breeding two Mo's and have do it responsibly.


-Shannon-


If everyone put their problems in a pile, you just might want to grab yours back!

http://www.motowngliders.com/

Lots of Beautiful and Sweet Gliders

Six Skin Kids: Jake, Alie, Nick, Samantha, Ben and Luci
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: cryingoutloud37] #979879
07/23/10 09:29 AM
07/23/10 09:29 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: cryingoutloud37
Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel
Breeding a mosaic to a grey of WF will still result in mosaic joeys 50% of the time. Crossing two lines of mosaic would pollute the lines, AND it would only bring the mosaics up to 75% of your joeys. It's not worth it.


It only pollutes the lines the same way breeding two wf's around, you only need ONE wf to make wf joeys yet we do wf to wf all the time. There are enough mosaic lines out there that it isn't a problem.



Honestly....isn't the real reason everyone is so adamant on JessicaMoss not doing this because of her past posts an her inexperience in breeding. If she consulted a veteran breeder when purchasing her Females an the breeder made sure both lines were clean it really wouldn't be a problem. There are breeders who have been breeding two Mo's and have do it responsibly.


That is what I was gently getting at... and trying to give facts. I know there are people who are responsible about breeding mo x mo, however they have to know their lineages inside out and make that decision. I won't, just because I feel like it's a waste when you can pair each one to a wfb, grey, or even a leu or creamino if the mo is from non-sterile lines. And still get 50% mosaics from each mosaic that you have breeding.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: wildlifeangel] #979883
07/23/10 09:36 AM
07/23/10 09:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,636
In paradise
hpyhwn2003 Offline
Glider Addict
hpyhwn2003  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,636
In paradise
Jessicamoss there are people here who will help you to decide if the pairing you have in mind will work by helping you look over the lineage of the gliders involved. First find the gliders you'd like to pair with then ask if this pairing will work. There are so many here that know lineage really really well like Dancing and Guerita135. I know when I start my pairing up they're who I'm planning to ask the same kinds of questions.

We are just asking that you not do this kind of pairing without experience or the help of people who are experienced.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: cryingoutloud37] #979884
07/23/10 09:37 AM
07/23/10 09:37 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: cryingoutloud37
Originally Posted By: Laurens_Babies
Originally Posted By: wildlifeangel
Breeding a mosaic to a grey of WF will still result in mosaic joeys 50% of the time. Crossing two lines of mosaic would pollute the lines, AND it would only bring the mosaics up to 75% of your joeys. It's not worth it.


It only pollutes the lines the same way breeding two wf's around, you only need ONE wf to make wf joeys yet we do wf to wf all the time. There are enough mosaic lines out there that it isn't a problem.



Honestly....isn't the real reason everyone is so adamant on JessicaMoss not doing this because of her past posts an her inexperience in breeding. If she consulted a veteran breeder when purchasing her Females an the breeder made sure both lines were clean it really wouldn't be a problem. There are breeders who have been breeding two Mo's and have do it responsibly.

Yes but I am just trying to post factually going off topic is only going to get this thread locked.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #979886
07/23/10 09:40 AM
07/23/10 09:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,214
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,214
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Originally Posted By: hpyhwn2003
Jessicamoss there are people here who will help you to decide if the pairing you have in mind will work by helping you look over the lineage of the gliders involved. First find the gliders you'd like to pair with then ask if this pairing will work. There are so many here that know lineage really really well like Dancing and Guerita135. I know when I start my pairing up they're who I'm planning to ask the same kinds of questions.

We are just asking that you not do this kind of pairing without experience or the help of people who are experienced.


This is very good advice! Solicit the advice of those that are good at this! Jessica..get your lineage together and ask the questions of these folks that can help you - you'll also gain a lot of respect if you're willing (and able) to put this information out there to really learn about breeding!

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: DCMuffin] #979895
07/23/10 09:54 AM
07/23/10 09:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
B19 Offline
Glider Lover
B19  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 542
Luverne, Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted By: hpyhwn2003
Jessicamoss there are people here who will help you to decide if the pairing you have in mind will work by helping you look over the lineage of the gliders involved. First find the gliders you'd like to pair with then ask if this pairing will work. There are so many here that know lineage really really well like Dancing and Guerita135. I know when I start my pairing up they're who I'm planning to ask the same kinds of questions.

We are just asking that you not do this kind of pairing without experience or the help of people who are experienced.



Quote:
This is very good advice! Solicit the advice of those that are good at this! Jessica..get your lineage together and ask the questions of these folks that can help you - you'll also gain a lot of respect if you're willing (and able) to put this information out there to really learn about breeding!


I agree 100% there are many people on here if you show possible pairings they are willing to help you decide if they'd be good togeher smile


Brandi

Loving mother to:
:grey: "Ziggy" & "Teddy"
:rtmo: "Pebbles"
1 chocolate Lab: "Gracie Mae"
1 Min Pin: "Daisy Mae"
2 horses: "Scoots" & "Sisco"

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: B19] #979944
07/23/10 11:20 AM
07/23/10 11:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Breeding mosaic to mosaic is what caused the sterility in the mosaic lines to begin with!

It isn't necessary. It does not increase the chances of more mosaic babies. The sterile lines are all producing now (I'm pretty sure), due to careful out breeding. WHY would you want to go and mess it up again!

Get yourself a pretty WFB, or BB, or even a really sweet standard gray. You will have the same number of mosaic babies, you will have cleaner lines, and you'll save yourself some money.

Perhaps you'd even get people off your back for a while if you made good choices going forward.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: ValkyrieMome] #979950
07/23/10 11:31 AM
07/23/10 11:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Breeding mosaic to mosaic is what caused the sterility in the mosaic lines to begin with!

Correct me if I'm wrong but breeding siblings to one another is what caused sterility, they didn't breed two unrelated mosaics together they inbred the heck out of the original lines.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Laurens_Babies] #979992
07/23/10 12:45 PM
07/23/10 12:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but breeding siblings to one another is what caused sterility


You are correct Lauren.

There is NOTHING wrong with breeding Mo to Mo IF you check lineages on both male and female.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Srlb] #980017
07/23/10 01:22 PM
07/23/10 01:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Peggy, couldn't the same thing be said about breeding leu to leu?


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980020
07/23/10 01:26 PM
07/23/10 01:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Laurens_Babies Offline
Glider Addict
Laurens_Babies  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,570
Kansas City, MO
Teresa the difference I have always seen about leu to leu is because of the gene type we don't have enough bred out lines, the concern isn't putting sterility in the leu line with leu to leu its that its hard enough to pair a leu with a leu het even wf's without it being a good clean line. It isn't hard to find two unrelated mosaics to put together.


~Lauren

Lauren's Animal Kingdom
*Website is down temporarily should be back up by November!*
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980048
07/23/10 02:42 PM
07/23/10 02:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy, couldn't the same thing be said about breeding leu to leu?


Teresa, funny you have asked that as that is something that has been brought up and currently being discussed with Dr.Tristan at the current time. But for now, when he was asked the other day, this was his response...


Quote:
This is a question that cannot be answered easily over email. You have to understand the foundation of genetics. Heterozygous, homozygous, dominant traits, codominant traits, etc. Then you have to understand the punnett square and how these crosses work. After that, a genetisist must figure out how distant relatives need to be so that wacky genes don't start to be expressed in the population.
As a side note, there are "clans" in Maine. These are individuals that marry within the family. They have determined that they must be 8 times removed to be able to marry without having genetic problems such as downs syndrome, etc. This has taken a long time to work out I am sure.
That said, there has been no research on gliders to determine how distant they must be to NOT throw bad genes. In addition, they/we also don't know what kind of "bad genes" may show up. The problem is that most of these "bad genes" are recessive and may be hidden in heterozygous individuals. This means they have one dominant gene and one recessive gene. If they breed to another heterozygous individual and they have babies, they have a 25% chance of expressing that "bad" recessive gene.
Despite all of this, there is still the statistical factor at play. This must be calculated in as well. Mother nature is a mathmatical genius and when she decides to throw us a curve, she's gonna do it. Thats how we have ended up with albinos, amelanistic, etc.

So how does this affect gliders? There have not been enough of these leu breeding to know. But based off of other species - there are bad genes that sometimes show up with these recessive trairts. There is a reason why they are recessive...they are not optimal for survival in the wild. Gliders that are grey, survive and grey becomes the dominant trait because the white ones stand out like a sore thumb and get eaten before they can reproduce....hence a poor trait for survival.

So is it good to bred a leu to a leu? Only time will tell, but history in other species says we will start to see problems when we mess with what mother nature is trying to do. This is why white boxers have more skin issues, white cats with blue eyes are deaf, white cockateils are prone to seizures, white doves are prone to seizures, etc. Just to add to that...its not just the white/amelanistic species. For example, people have been breeding dogs because they like a cetain trait. As a result, golden retreivers are number one on the list for getting cancer, breeds like rottweilers, german shepards, and labs are prone to hip displasia, chihuahuas get hydrocephalus, and on and on.

I know this is a long response, but it is not a simple questions with a simple answer. You are welcome to post this if you want.
Tim


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Srlb] #980055
07/23/10 03:03 PM
07/23/10 03:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Peggy, no offense intended, honestly, but if I wanted to ask Dr. Tristan or any other vet, I'm quite able to do just that. I'm asking for owner/breeder first hand experience/opinions/input.

You said breeding mo to mo is ok IF the lineages are clean and compatable. Well, why wouldn't it be the same for leu to leu? As it is, most leu to leu hets have some inbreeding going on in the tree. But if two leus without shared lineage were found, is there any reason NOT to put them together? Or is it the opinion, still at this time, that it is better to keep those two (theoritically) unrelated lines seperate and instead risk the inbreeding of leu het to leu het for the purpose of "breeding out"?

I don't now and never will breed for leus (little white rats with wings, cute but still). For me, I LOVE the markings on the gliders. Greys are the best. Even the wfb's have some differences in their markings. Mosaics are fun simply because of the element of surprise. But I just can't imagine having a room full of leus, and for some reason having a mass escape take place and then trying to figure out who is who and where each belongs.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980058
07/23/10 03:14 PM
07/23/10 03:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,770
St. Johns, Florida
No offense taken at all Teresa. I have learned not to take anything personal anymore (or at least I try real hard not to grin)

You asked *me* a question. I was just responding to you that I have been thinking that very same question and I am trying to do what I can and ask those that *I* feel have the proper experience and expertise so I can learn the proper way instead of just going by breeding babies myself. I hope that makes sense to you.

This was a question asked to him almost two weeks ago. Not something I just sent to him because you posed a question to me. Just thought I would share is all.

Personally, I am trying to find out why a leu to leu pairing would NOT be ok if the lines were separated out far enough. I can not say this can not be done, but I want to know for certain it is not something that could be a health hazard before *I* could say yes, a leu to leu pairing would be ok to do if the lines are far enough apart and non related.

I have no desires myself to breed leu to leu but like you, I dont want to sit and say you CANT breed leu to leu if in all reality you can....

Its all confusing....but questions is how we all learn I reckon. :-)


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Srlb] #980060
07/23/10 03:19 PM
07/23/10 03:19 PM

J
JamieInWA
Unregistered
JamieInWA
Unregistered
J



Let's try to keep this thread on topic with Mosaic to Mosaic breeding. thumb Feel free to open another thread for the LeuXLeu discussion. Thanks for your understanding!

thanks

Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980068
07/23/10 03:36 PM
07/23/10 03:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956
Homestead, FL
Adri Offline
Glider Guardian
Adri  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 956
Homestead, FL
Teresa, the letter Peggy posted was the response to an email I sent him in regards to Leu to Leu breedings. Which I also feel it is possible IF done responsibly with the lines we have available today.

But referring back to the topic at hand Mo & WF are dominant traits due to this there is far less a risk of a genetic issue being passed on to the offspring by pairing the two together. Keep in mind that will NOT apply if the Mo's are also recessive for the same color (i.e. Leu hets). I know many of you have brought up the sterility issue with Mo's but that had nothing to do with the expressed color...it was ALL about the poor breeding practices of an unethical breeder. She would have achieved the same results breeding for grays.


Adri

Mother of 2
Adrian, Sofie
Slave to many glidin' gliders



www.sugarsensation.com

Within the heart of every stray lies the singular desire to be loved.
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Adri] #980071
07/23/10 03:44 PM
07/23/10 03:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Jamie, I respect you trying to keep this on topic but I wanted to point out that much of what we know about breeding mosaics we learned from leus. Mosaics, Leus, Albinos, Creminos are all still new enough "colors" that in order for us to make choices, we often have to look at "what happened" with the other colors.

We can't look at just mosaics and form opinions or educated guesses just based on "mosaic". I asked about the leu to leu pairings to see if the justifications or consequences for not breeding leu to leu would be the same justifications/conseqences for not breeding mo to mo.

We know that in the beginning, mos siblings were paired and the result was sterility issues. Most breeders are very careful to not pairing sterile line mo's with leus. (though why it is still ok to pair line mo's with other colors is beyond me).

So, while it may seem the leu to leu questions were off topic, they really weren't.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Any problems breeding mosaic to mosaic? [Re: Dancing] #980098
07/23/10 04:13 PM
07/23/10 04:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
Teresa, I know I don't know very much about color breeding, but leu x leu is an (assumed) recessive breeding, mo x mo is an (assumed) dominant breeding. They are different and this thread seemed to be heading down a 'leu' dirrection.

Jamie asked nicely. If you all want to continue a leu x leu conversation or talk about color breeding in general, please start a new topic.

Originally Posted By: GC Rule #3
3. Please keep the posts closely related to the topic. If the topic sparks another thought for discussion, please open a new thread.


thanks


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
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