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Re: Peepers and Jeepers are GETTING BETTER! [Re: ] #94038
04/15/06 07:24 AM
04/15/06 07:24 AM

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How's everyone doing?

Hoping Peepers and Jeepers are still improving <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are GETTING BETTER! [Re: ] #94039
04/16/06 04:12 AM
04/16/06 04:12 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis

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Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Hey Sundra...how are the girls? It's been a few days, so hoping they're feeling more like them old selves! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are GETTING BETTER! [Re: ] #94040
04/17/06 10:27 AM
04/17/06 10:27 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
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How's the peanuts fairing? I hope everyone is feeling tip top again!


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94041
04/19/06 11:29 PM
04/19/06 11:29 PM

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Sorry I didn't update sooner. Just to let everyone know, Peepers and Jeepers appear to be all better. They are eating and running around like normal, being their usual fun-luvin' selves.

I had to go out of town from Thursday to Sunday, which had me just totally stressed out because I couldn't take them and I didn't want to leave them. But the glider sitter I got for them was a vet tech at the best glider-vet in town's office and she has gliders herself. She took super good care of them and I knew that just in case they started to go downhill again, she'd know what to do. Luckily, they were well on the road to recovery when she got them and she had no trouble giving them the last couple doses of their meds and by the time I picked them up, they were back to themselves again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

I did want to tell you guys a couple of things I realized in hindsight. I didn't realize it at the time, but I believe the first sign they gave that one of them was getting ill was to stop sleeping in the same pouch about 2 or 3 days before. They've done that on occasion, so I didn't think too much of it when I found them in separate pouches several days before they showed definite symptoms. But now that I'm looking back, it was pretty unusual for them and became more consistent through their illness.

Also, if it hadn't been for the unmistakeable sign that they were really sick (the vomiting) it may have taken me much longer to figure it out. Even when I knew they were very sick (vomiting is never something you should ignore) they didn't seem that ill, or at least Peepers didn't. Jeepers definitely wasnt eating, but I may not have known that if I hadn't been specifically watching for her to go to the food bowl. Since Peeps was still eating, I may not have noticed that less food than usual was being consumed since they generally don't clean their plates except maybe once a week.

My point is that when we say on here that they are good at hiding illness, and by the time you can notice symptoms it could be almost too late, it really is true! I'm so glad I took them in to the vet right away when I realized that something was up. If they hadn't gotten on the medication when they did, it could easily have gone the other way. Also, its true that any vet is better than no vet. The emerg. vet that I took them to Sunday night admitted that she didn't know a lot about gliders, and when she walked in the exam room, she told me she had been looking up information on gliders in her books. But she figured out what to do, knew how to run the fecal tests (although they were negative) and got them on the right med (I checked with 2 other vets the next day, including the exotic specialist who sees most gliders in Austin) and I'm glad she was there when we needed her. By the way, Jen/Xfilefan was as much or more help than the vet books that night in talking to the vet with all her experience with sick gliders. Thanks again, Jen! You don't know how much it meant to have someone I trusted to be there for me in the middle of the night like that.

I just thank Heaven that I'm making this post rather than one in Real Stories. The moral of the story is don't ignore even subtle signs of illness and when in doubt, take them in! You'll be glad you did, even if it turns out to be a false alarm. You'll know you're taking the best care possible of your babies.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94042
04/19/06 11:39 PM
04/19/06 11:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
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I'm so glad that Peepers & Jeepers are their normal bouncy selves again.


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94043
04/20/06 07:34 AM
04/20/06 07:34 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
My point is that when we say on here that they are good at hiding illness, and by the time you can notice symptoms it could be almost too late, it really is true!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I could not agree more! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/agree.gif" alt="" /> Even when Amaya got sick she didn't seem THAT bad. Had I not actually seen her vomit, I may have just thought...oh, her behavior seems a little off, or hmm, the gliders aren't eating as much the last few days, or something else that did not seem like an emergency.

SO SO SO glad to hear they are all better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94044
04/21/06 10:45 AM
04/21/06 10:45 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Thanks so much for the update <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> We always hope no news is good news, but it's nice to have that confirmed, lol. It's great to hear they're back to they're old bouncy selves! And I'm here anytime and am more than happy to help when I can! Give those babies a kiss from me. You did great with them! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94045
04/21/06 12:37 PM
04/21/06 12:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
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SOOOO glad they're doing better...I couldn't agree more, any signs of unusual behavior should never be taken lightly. They're lucky they have you for a mommy!


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are ALL BETTER! [Re: ] #94046
04/21/06 12:39 PM
04/21/06 12:39 PM

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Glad to hear the news , i was worried... yaaaaaay


Carl

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94047
05/03/06 11:56 PM
05/03/06 11:56 PM

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Well, Jeeps seems to have a touch of diarrhea again. It's not really bad and she's eating very well as I type this so I'm going to wait until morning to take her in, rather than doing another midnight run to the e-vet.

I've been watching them closely because several of you with experience suggested that several rounds of medication are necessary if it was giardia. Last night they didn't eat much, but were playing as usual. Tonight Jeepers was slower to come out of the pouch than Peepers, but she did come out and run around a bit before going to the food bowl herself and chowing down on the carrots. They have still been sleeping in the same pouch, not separating like they did before and there is more than one pouch available in the cage.

They were never definitively diagnosed before because all the fecals came out negative, so we never knew it to be giardia. I just kinda had a feeling that's what it was. Do other bugs have a tendency to come back after appearing to be gone for several weeks, or does the fact that it seems to be returning indicate giardia?

I guess it will be another round of metro. At least that did seem to clear it up last time.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94048
05/04/06 12:41 AM
05/04/06 12:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
If that is what it was (is)..the first round could have knocked it down, only for the parasite to gradually reproduce and reassert itself...so yes, it's definitely possible. I would ask the vet to schedule at least two rounds with a break in between for them-positive test or not-if he thinks Giardia is what is going on...so as not to have it keep coming back, and become resistant to the meds. Any bug can come back if all of it is not killed, which can result in a drug resistant version of the bug that is difficult to eradicate...this is becoming a problem in people because of 1)people taking antibiotics in a futile attempt to treat a virus, or 2) not taking the full course of drug (stopping when you feel better instead of when the meds are finished), leaving the ones that remain resistant to that medication. Let us know what he says, and keep us updated on the little ones.

Last edited by Xfilefan; 05/04/06 12:42 AM.

Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94049
05/08/06 11:28 PM
05/08/06 11:28 PM

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Okay, I just gave them their 5th dose of metro for this round. They are feeling fine and seem to have been symptom free including eating well since about the second day on this round of Metro. Now I'm going to give them 5 days off and then another 5 days on the metro. Does that sound right to everyone (or at least most of those of you who have enough experience with this type of thing to have an opinion)? The vet who prescribed the metro this time is my friend who is a vet, but not a glider expert. She was basing the dosing schedule (but not the dose, which was figured out by weight the last time they were on it) on what I told her I had read here and the fact that she felt it seemed like a reasonable course of action.

Schlep? Judy? Jen? I think you guys have all had great advise in the past. I just want to make sure I'm remembering correctly and understood correctly. I just don't want my babies to get sick again! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

Also, should I just do one more round after this or two? I don't remember if someone said you should do two or three rounds with 5 days off between. One more after this would make three rounds total, but it was more like 2 weeks off between the first and second and they had time to develop the same symptoms (diarrhea and vomiting) again. I am going on the assumption that they had giardia, but that's all it is, an assumption, because we never had a positive test although the metronidazole definitely helped both times.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94050
05/09/06 01:17 AM
05/09/06 01:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Sundra, honestly, I've heard both (2 rounds and 3)..depending on the vet and the case. I would ask your vet what she thinks. I can observe that they responded much more quickly this time, than they did last time, so perhaps it wasn't as bad as when you started, despite reestablishing itself. If you want to go for a 3rd to be safe, I don't think it will hurt them. Again, tho, I'm not a vet, so get her opinion. I'm really glad to hear they're so perked up already! Thank you for the update. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94051
05/09/06 06:30 AM
05/09/06 06:30 AM

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I don't know that there is any absolute and well-studied protocol to determine your course of action, or how many rounds of meds to use. My personal hunch is that this wasn't Giardia, but I have no proof either that it was or wasn't.

The only times I've seen intermittent "antibiotic" recommendations is for infestations such as lice when one wanted to kill parents, then come back in a week and clean up any progeny. Usually with gut microbes it is hard to justify any logic to the plan at the outset of stopping and then starting the med again. I would suggest that only encourages resistance development. If one stops the meds and signs of illness return, we respond.

There are many infections that are self-limiting. There are viral and other processes that antibiotics don't address. There can be some food-borne infections that dissipate on their own. If we add a med, it gets credit even if it played no role. With no evidence of Giardia and a better critter, I would be tempted to hold off and see what develops. Metronidazole has activity against gut anaerobes and messes with flora too, not just Giardiasis.

When cultures and tests recovered no organism on a diarrhea work-up and the patient is seeming to recover, I would stop treating after the initial round myself.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94052
05/09/06 02:39 PM
05/09/06 02:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Best treatment for Giardia is administer the Flagyl (metro) 2 x's a day for five days, then five days off and repeated for a total of three rounds.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94053
05/09/06 03:31 PM
05/09/06 03:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Schlep-I'm going to think out loud here-and would be interested in what you think. I keep thinking about this-and I always have to try and figure out the reasoning behind things.

I wonder if originally, the on/off treatment was started to give the gut flora time to regenerate while not allowing the giardia to come back too much-continuing treatment for a longer overall period in a way that was felt to be easier on the body....?

I know that some antibiotics last longer in the body than when you are actually taking them, having an effect for a day or two beyond the end of treatment-I don't know if Metro is like that or not, and little about flagellate protozoa and their life cycles-could they possibly be like lice?

At the same time, I've had dealings with resistant 'bugs', and it isn't desirable, while being hard on the animal, and trying to find a med that will work against the resistant 'bug'.

I have also had Riker on Metro for a 14 day period (over a year ago), which is 1 day short of the total time ON meds if you go the on/off route, and he didn't suffer any effects that were obvious or irreparable-of course I don't have his insides under a microscope, either, and any long term effects would, well, not show up until long term. My vet felt it was safe for that long-I'm sure another vet may disagree.

So it would come down to this, Sundra: You have two options...and your vet would be the best one to advise. Based on the life cycle/responsiveness of the suspected 'bug', either on/off, or one long shot of Metro, provided she doesn't feel it would be too hard on the body, or that maybe replenishment of gut flora during treatment would be beneficial (such as with benebac) to offset that particular side effect.

I suspect this all comes down to how well giardia is known to respond to one situation or the other as far as how treatment is administered. I asked myself what I would do if in this situation (I haven't been yet-at least not with one that had a chance at getting better...mine died 1 or 2 days into the meds because they were already dying...we tried anyway knowing there was little chance)....my answer is similar to Schlep's reasoning-I would likely go for the longer course treatment, unless my vet recommended the other, if offered either choice at my current lack of understanding of the organism. Since it came back after only a 5 day treatment, that wasn't long enough for a single course (though it did take what...about two weeks before it reasserted itself enough to cause symptoms?) There are those who have gone through this with the on/off treatment, a definitively diagnosed case, and it has worked also. If this were to produce a resistant bug that came back after the on/off treatment were finished, you would then likely have to provide a longer course, or different med, to treat at that time.

Now that I've probably succeeded in confusing everybody...I'll shut up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" />


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94054
05/10/06 12:43 AM
05/10/06 12:43 AM

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Sorry to be contrary but I can't find any studies suggesting the decision from the outset to treat with repeated rounds of medications as a protocol is a good one. Someone will have to explain to me the merits of treating 5 days and stopping for 5 days and treating for 5 more days, etc. Consider the two possibilities after the first 5 days of treatment:
1) Possibility 1 - The infestation is eradicated. This drug is not innocuous. Why treat longer if eradicated? You are done. Stop already.
2) Possibility 2 - The infestation is not eradicated. Why stop after 5 days and let the parasite counts soar up again. If the medication being given has not done the trick, (based either on continued signs of illness or positive labs), switch to something that is effective. If you were making headway, don't quit early but finish the job. Value proposition of start and stop? I don't see it.

Jen, starting and stopping the medications isn't flora protective, but it does continue to select for resistance (not good.)

Since none of the medications are 100% effective, a treatment failure is possible. I'm lucky in that almost all humans have had Giardia at some point, a good many have it at any given time, and it is self-limited and usually goes away without treatment. On the rare occasion that my patient is continually symptomatic or losing weight and suffering from it, medications are given and labs and cure followed. It can be a stinker to get rid of sometimes. But we always win in the end with Giardia - not so with bacteria for which I have much more respect.

I do believe we continue to suffer from a bad mental model that it is our duty to clear the infestation in all cases and that medications are the answer in all circumstances. That is not to mention the treatments done without evidence-based data. There is a difference between an asymptomatic animal that is thriving and a sick one that is not doing well and needs treatment. I know I'm going to get the "gliders hide illness" speech and that Giardia is nasty. But worldwide many species and locations harbor such infections without pharmacopoeia. If I knew my glider had it, I would want to treat it too just in case. But...

Unnecessarily long courses of medications are bad. They just are. The thought that if 2 weeks are good 4 weeks are better is dead wrong in most cases. If your infection is one that has shown itself to be difficult to eradicate or prone to recurrence (like osteomyelitis), then maintenance medications may have a place - rarely. But infections are cleared by the immune system and not by the medication. The medication plays a helpful role to be sure to get the trend moving the right direction. But without cellular and humoral immunity that the animal itself provides, it is a losing proposition. Mother Nature is better than we give her credit for. Sorry for the ramble.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94055
05/10/06 01:21 AM
05/10/06 01:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Jacksonville, FL
No, dont' be sorry-that's the kind of detail I want to know. I was only trying to "wonder out loud" why a vet might have prescribed it that way...not saying it was right, or wrong (I am not qualified to judge either way other than it works or not)--I was basically inviting 'contradiction', schlep-I really want to know all of the pros and cons in a given situation.

I know in this case her gliders were bad enough to warrant treating, one was really going downhill in a hurry, and the other was following, with giardia-like symptoms. The meds did work (to a point), and they appeared well, only for the same symptoms to slowly creep back. So it kind of suggests that whatever is going on (suspectedly giardia) is sensitive to it, at least to some degree. If it is an infection of another kind, metro might also have some effect, since it is an antibiotic as well as anti parasitic-either way, it apparently wasn't enough the first time around. So I was trying to explore the different views here on "what is right", supposedly, to maybe help her and her vet make the best decision (as we were asked) by providing "food for thought"....that was the only reason for sharing my thoughts on both stances, and ASKING for your contradictions-so to speak. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Might it make sense, since they don't have an exact fix on the culprit, to go with a slightly longer course, as the first 5 day wasn't enough to eradicate, just in case? Or another med might be better, considering they can't find the exact bug, and this has shown to work some? Sundra and her vet would need to make that determination, of course.

Does that make any sense at all? (I hope so)

Last edited by Xfilefan; 05/10/06 01:22 AM.

Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94056
05/11/06 12:38 AM
05/11/06 12:38 AM

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Jen,
My post wasn't in response to yours at all. I did want to voice concern that many think it is all about the meds. "Longer is better" (often false) and treatment failure was because of wrong length of treatment or wrong dose (also often false.) Start/stop seems illogical to me as I described. I searched many references, both my medical ones as well as the veterinary ones, and couldn't find advocacy for intermittent treatment as well. That is a different question than returning to treatment after ending it if signs recur. I was speaking of planned lapses in treatment.

I agree these guys sounded like treatment was reasonable. I disagree that intermittent med pulses is the best course of action. But she should follow her veterinarians advice.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94057
05/11/06 01:46 AM
05/11/06 01:46 AM

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Thank you both (actually all three, even though Judie's post was short, lol) for your very helpful discussion of the matter. I had the same thoughts that you did, Schlep, regarding the encouragement of resistance, and the fact that I'd only heard of the pulsing treatment being used for lice, etc. Then in answer to those thoughts, I also thought of the same logic that you voiced, Jen, about giardia, being a parasite rather than bacteria or virus, perhaps having a life cycle similar to lice. Also, I wondered if the break in treatment could have to do with allowing recovery of the organ systems involved in metabolizing the medications (i.e. liver, kidneys, whichever is the route out of the body for metro). That thought occurred to me when I was holding them in a towel the other day, giving meds and thought for a moment that someone's hand looked a little yellow. Don't worry, that turned out to just be the lighting, but it got me thinking about the liver.

Now I am less comfortable with the 5 day break in treatment, although I know Judie has had experience in this situation and apparently has been instructed to do the pulse treatment by her vet with good results. Judie, have you discussed with your vet the logic behind doing it that way? I'd be interested to know what he/she says or said.

Tomorrow I will definitely talk to my vet (and probably direct her to this interesting thread -- Hi Tracy!) and see what her thoughts are again.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" /> all so much for your terrific responses!

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94058
05/11/06 02:32 AM
05/11/06 02:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Serious Glideritis

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Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Lol, Sundra...I tried-decided to throw every thought I could come up with on the table for all options and see what came back...just hope we don't give your poor vet a headache! And that whatever happens, those babies of yours get back to full health and their bouncy little selves as soon as possible-that's the bottom line, and most important thing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94059
05/11/06 02:39 AM
05/11/06 02:39 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
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Serious Glideritis
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Because the parasites are in different life cycles in the gut... 5 days on will get rid of those that are adults. 5 days off... gives time for the parasites to hatch out. 5 days on again time to rid the nasty parasites again. Then rest... and wait for any last ones to hatch.... 5 days for third round should eleminate all of the few that are left.

I have done the 14 day treatment in my earlier days with gliders... only to find that occassionaly a month to six weeks of being off the med... the Giradia returned.

With the five day rotation for three rounds of treatment... the Giardia never retruned. It is also easier on the normal flora in the gut with the five day rotation.... the normal flora is able to replenish itself when off the med... result is not such a sick glider when med is being administered. Because the tummy is not messed up... the glider will eat his food better during treatment. Also, you do not have all the toxins from the dead parasites being filtered by the liver all at one time.

Med of choice Metrodiazole (Flagyl).

Last edited by Judie; 05/11/06 02:49 AM.
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94060
08/03/06 11:08 AM
08/03/06 11:08 AM

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I'm going to add to this thread because it helps me keep track of what's gone on with Peepers and Jeepers and their off-and-on illnesses over the past several months.

Peepers seems okay. Jeepers became lethargic between Tuesday night and Wednesday morning. I at first attributed it to her just being tired because Sydney had been playing with her a LOT starting Sunday night when we got home from SGGA. She does not appear to be dehydrated, but I would say she seems underweight. She has always been a small glider, but now it seems more pronounced. They rarely actually finish their food, but I do generally see both of them eating. I haven't seen Peepers pushing Jeepers off the food but Peepers does seem to have picked up some weight lately.

The other very noticeable symptom that Jeepers has now is that her crab is very weak. She normally crabs loudly anytime she's disturbed in her pouch. Now she doesn't do it as readily and when she does, it's very slow and not loud.

I've seen no runny poop. I did see her nibble at an avocado and eat half a cherry Wednesday, but I haven't seen her eat on her own today. I gave her some PML with a syringe this morning to make sure she was getting some nutrition and to see if we could get some poop and/or urine out of her when I take her to the vet later. After that I saw her come out of the pouch and get a drink from the water bottle. She moves very slowly.

Her ears aren't totally down, but she seems a little droopy.

We have an appointment at the vet's at 2:30, which is about 4 hours from now. I'm taking her to a vet who is a friend of mine. She doesn't have a lot of glider experience but she wants to learn and she went to school with the vet who's known to be the best glider vet in Austin so she said she can easily consult with him. I printed out the sticky about well checks and crisis checks and neutering for her. I'd like for her to get more glider experience because the other vet is clear across town and I have to go through downtown traffic to get there. I also think it would be good for everyone in the Austin glider community for there to be another glider knowledgible vet who is in North Austin.

If anyone has any suggestions on what to look for with a main symptom of lethargy, please post them here. I am planning to try to print this thread for her also right before I leave.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94061
08/03/06 12:40 PM
08/03/06 12:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Peeper-MAKE IT TO THAT APPOINTMENT. Sometimes there are no other symptoms. ALso in the other thread you said she only urinated a drop. MAKE the vet check for UTI (urinalysis)-that's what would happen to Gim with a UTI-and if a gliders ears droop when they should be up, they aren't feeling well-all the way down or not. Also have fecals run just in case. I can't say what is up with her-but in combination with lack of appetite I am comfortable stating that something IS up. Now it's just finding out what. Loads of hugs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> and let us know what the vet finds.

Consider that separation from you (while her momma was away) may have stressed her, and allowed for an otherwise normal bacteria to go crazy, or weakened her resistance to allow something in. Waiting to hear.


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94062
08/03/06 12:42 PM
08/03/06 12:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Xfilefan Offline
Serious Glideritis
Xfilefan  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Oh...and my vet is MORE than happy to consult:

Dr. Harris
801-485-4736


Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94063
08/03/06 02:15 PM
08/03/06 02:15 PM

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I will, Jen. Going now. And thanks for the number of your vet. Now I've got the one in Austin, Teresa's and yours for her to talk to.

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94064
08/03/06 02:39 PM
08/03/06 02:39 PM

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I don't have anything to add other than to wish you luck at the vet today <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94065
08/03/06 08:04 PM
08/03/06 08:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidrz5  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
What did the vet have to say???????


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94066
08/03/06 08:51 PM
08/03/06 08:51 PM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 296
Southwestern, VA
M
msparks Offline
Glider Explorer
msparks  Offline
Glider Explorer
M

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 296
Southwestern, VA
Just wondering if there is an update....


Michelle,momma to suggies ~~Woody, Lilly, Leo & Leaha OOP 9-25-06, Horatio OOP 12-25-06, Bailey OOP 3-13-07, Chloe, & Jewels~~
Re: Peepers and Jeepers are sick again [Re: ] #94067
08/03/06 10:27 PM
08/03/06 10:27 PM

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Okay, so the vet noticed while feeling her tummy that she could feel a lot of poop in the colon. So she suspected that she is constipated. She was a little bit dehydrated (maybe) so we sub-cued her both to help with the dehydration and to hydrate the gut. We did get a small urine sample which she sent off for culture and sensitivity because it would just barely have been enough to do a urinalysis on. The C & S will of course take a few days so we won't hear back on that until Monday but the vet doesn't really expect growth.

We talked about putting her on an antibiotic just in case, but the vet prefers not to give antibiotics to exotics unless there is a definite reason because they just don't handle meds like dogs and cats. She is pretty confident it's constipation.

She is not bloated at all at this point. I know for sure she pooped "a lot" Monday night because my daughter commented on it during tent time. I was quizzing her about whether she remembered her going Tuesday night and she thinks she did but not sure. There was some in the bottom of the travel cage that only Jeepers went in on I think Tuesday night. The last time she could have gone without me noticing it (because I wasn't thinking constipation yet) was this morning.

So she got the sub-cue and I've given her a little apple juice. After talking to Jen/Xfilefan I also gave her 0.05cc vegetable oil and 0.05cc apple and blueberry baby food. I'm going to give her about another 0.1cc of apple juice or glideraide in a few minutes and just try to keep her well hydrated tonight.

She is at least up and crawling (slowly) around the cage. I put her in a small travel cage separated from Peepers so I can tell for sure if she goes. They are both wanting to get together though. Poor Peepers really seems worried about her. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

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