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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: gliderdad79] #907146
02/14/10 08:03 PM
02/14/10 08:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
[quote=gliderdad79
I could be wrong, but if I am remembering correctly at the 05 SGGA the USDA speaker said you will get a different answer from each inspector. [/quote]

Yep and they all have their own little pet peeves


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907150
02/14/10 08:17 PM
02/14/10 08:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
The way I recall it, ANY female in your home is accounted for.

It was asked, what if I have one dog, one rat and two sugar gliders, all female, will I have to have a license, the answer was yes.

However, it DOES depend on your area, even though I had more than three breeding females AND owned a pet store with live animals, I was told I did NOT need to apply for a USDA license in our part unless I was an exhibitor or had a large bird aviary. dunno

Now that I have moved, I will be applying once again for my license.

Yes, it IS supposed to be the SAME across the board, but it isnt. Not with the USDA...that is how so many people like (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and others like them, get away with things.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Srlb] #907161
02/14/10 08:44 PM
02/14/10 08:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Srlb
The way I recall it, ANY female in your home is accounted for.

It was asked, what if I have one dog, one rat and two sugar gliders, all female, will I have to have a license, the answer was yes.


Exactly, Peggy. That is what amazed us all. You could have any mix of female species but once the number went over three, you had to have that good ole USDA license.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907174
02/14/10 09:16 PM
02/14/10 09:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
When I moved down here, I went over to the USDA office to see about getting licensed. (there is one only 8 miles from me) I ran in to several snags. First one was, they had no idea what I was even talking about. They deal (down here) with horses, cattle, sheep etc (farm livestock) issues. This is farm country. They also said they had NO idea who would even be able to do an inspection for me.

I had to explain to them what a sugar glider was and show them the USDA license book. I then got that "Oh you're the monkey lady". Ummm, no, I don't have any monkeys. shakehead I wondered who told them I had monkeys? Very small community down here.

They looked at the book and they interpreted it to be "three BREEDING females" as written, not breedable. I got really specific with them and explained that I had a number of gliders that were in non breeding pairs as well as some that were in breeding situations.
Again, I was told "breeding females". They said they would not count female joeys as they were not mature enough to breed even if they were intended to become breeders once old enough or would not count them until they were old enough and in a breeding situation.

I also told them that I often had rescues come in that were "temporary" until homes could be found for them. I was told that as long as I was not charging to rehome the rescues, then I did not need a breeder or dealer/broker license. This is one of the reasons I don't charge for the rescues I place. I will allow the new owner to pay the vet directly for any neuters that need to be done but I don't charge for the gliders.


I guess just as in most things, finding consistancy across the board is next to impossible. This is one of the problems faced with dealing with the mills. It all depends on WHO goes out to inspect them and their interpretation of what is "suitable living conditions" for the animals.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907316
02/15/10 07:27 AM
02/15/10 07:27 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
it was dr slaughter who is a regional supervisor for the usda it was at Judies sgga in kansas city as he was trying to get his agents to raise the bar and was asking for what we thought was a minimum standard for them to go by,

also speaking with several inspectors, and yes they do pop in once in awhile if they KNOW you do rescue, as was told to us, is that we as rescuers fall into a different catagory as long as we don't charge for them. and we have revolving doors, it depends on your inspector as the rescue area is a gray area.

with that being said, I do know of a rescue home 501c3 who was made to get their usda license. a brokers license, because they do charge a flat adoption fee which covers neuters and and their vet expenses, feed , supplies etc.regardless if the gliders need neutered or not,

anyone who does rescues knows there is never any money in it, and you are always in the red.

we also were told something similar, which is why many of us, if we accept any money it is not to us, but our vets. if their money only went to their vet, then they would not have had to get a brokers license.

as for 501c3 not be able to demand donations.. well that is a matter of wording. they are however allowed to charge an adoption fee, and their paperwork must show that all monies coming in is going to the RESCUE gliders.

as for all rescues should be required to 501c3, if they don't take in any money, the 501c3 is of no use.

Jamie has had hers for several years and basically without getting grants or sponsors they are basically useless. (except for the people that look for 501c3 rescues specifically.

I didn't see the post where dancing responded to CKB so I can't respond to it.

But I do understand what she was going through at the time, we as rescuers see it alot , no slam on CKB at all, so please don't take it that way.. but many people TRY to do rescue, it usually only takes a few times before they realize the intensity ,and the costs, not only to the pocket, but to the heart, as CKB learned, it leaves an impacting mark in your heart for life, if someone wants to try to rescue, I help them and support them, but also I try to help guide them as well and offer many resources for help. but still not everyone can do it, but if people don't try, they will never know what their limits are. then you have those that after starting, doesn't want to let go of them, although with the best intentions, it is not practical. I have worked with a few after taking in their first couple of cases and not wanting to let go, they realized that rescue isn't for them. They love their babies which have become pets. And they don't claim to be rescuers.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Bourbon] #907332
02/15/10 09:11 AM
02/15/10 09:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
I absolutely was not trying to slam CKB at all. I know the self doubts. I was just saying that from my point and for her future reference (and other's that might find themselves in a similar situation), that I FEEL that while a glider is in your care, YOU are the one that has to make the medical decisions for that glider at that time. In CKB's case, it was an immediate situation that she could have made the choice. This is one of those painful situations that we learn from and grow. From these types of things, we learn and adapt how we "do things". I'm sorry you had to go through that CKB. I hope no one else ever has to be in that situation.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907526
02/15/10 06:20 PM
02/15/10 06:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
I knew you weren't slamming me smile I just used that as an example so others understand why we need to have a set way to get this stuff done. The most important this is always the welfare of the glider for me. I just had to learn I do have the power to make choices for gliders in my possession even if they are NOT mine and other people may not always like the option I take.

I think there should be a type of rescue license for the glider rescues. Maybe the broker one does fit. I think it was Mere that had rescues and breeders and had to have 2 different sets of records for her inspector. Of course I also wish we could chip the gliders for better tracking but them things are still to big for the lil furbutts IMO


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #907535
02/15/10 06:40 PM
02/15/10 06:40 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
I agree with everything you have said Cyndie. Situations like you were put in should never take place. The person who had the glider prior to you, IMO, should have made sure that little one received vet care and was helped over the Bridge, if that was the advice given by the vet. It NEVER should have gotten to you. What's done is done though.

As far as rescuers, I believe because of the wonderful job (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is doing (yes that sure was sarcastic) along with some other reputable mills (again sarcastic), rescuers will have to agree to abide by standards of animal husbandary, record keeping and making sure the animals are given proper vet care in order to continue taking them in.

Some do an excellent job, but we all know others do not. It is not acceptable to rehome/place a sick glider and expect the new owner to make sure the glider gets proper vet care.

As far as I'm concerned, if a current rescuer feels they do not need to be held accountable for what happens in their home, then they do not deserve the support of the glider community regardless of who they are. If you are running a clean rescue operation, there should be no reason to fear a few guidelines that everyone else agrees to follow.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907540
02/15/10 06:56 PM
02/15/10 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
Catman Offline
Glider Explorer
Catman  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 235
Colorado
I have no clue what half this post is about and I'm not bashing anyone.I do know that if Jamie didn't have a license, the shelters would not call her when they get gliders dumped there. They would just put the gliders to sleep frown.


1 son
1 wife
5 Cats
2 dogs Twiggy and spot
6 sugargliders:Ray,Cinnamon,Nick,Holly,jasmine,and bella
3 rescued gliders with no names
1 corn snake
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Catman] #907595
02/15/10 08:24 PM
02/15/10 08:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
It is not acceptable to rehome/place a sick glider and expect the new owner to make sure the glider gets proper vet care.


Karen, this would depend on the situation and the new owner.

For example, a rescuer (just an example) such as Val, gets in rescues. They had to be treated for parasites. They were given vet attention and placed on meds. Now, some had homes waiting. These homes were fully informed of the health situation and because they had fewer gliders to care for, they were in a better position to take the gliders and continue with the meds. Full disclosure was made to the new owner, the new owner fully understands the course of treatment and has a vet who can take over if the need arises and for follow up care. So Val lets them go to their new home but continues to be available for support to help incase the new owner has problems.

In cases like this, I see no reason to not let the gliders go to their new homes.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907599
02/15/10 08:30 PM
02/15/10 08:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
I agree. Situations where the new owner had full knowledge of what they were getting is one thing.

Placing gliders when the new owner either is given no information to expect there is anything wrong with the glider/s or giving false information, is certainly not acceptable.



Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907630
02/15/10 09:21 PM
02/15/10 09:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: KarenE
As far as I'm concerned, if a current rescuer feels they do not need to be held accountable for what happens in their home, then they do not deserve the support of the glider community regardless of who they are. If you are running a clean rescue operation, there should be no reason to fear a few guidelines that everyone else agrees to follow.


clap

I wanted to add Dancing, that in the example you gave, the first rescue home provided the initial vet care AND fully disclosed the situation and evaluated the receiving home to assure it was ready and able to continue the care. I think that would be fine, it's those that move them on without getting the intial vet care to unknowing homes that pose the problems.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907669
02/15/10 10:23 PM
02/15/10 10:23 PM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Originally Posted By: Dancing
Quote:
It is not acceptable to rehome/place a sick glider and expect the new owner to make sure the glider gets proper vet care.


Karen, this would depend on the situation and the new owner.

For example, a rescuer (just an example) such as Val, gets in rescues. They had to be treated for parasites. They were given vet attention and placed on meds. Now, some had homes waiting. These homes were fully informed of the health situation and because they had fewer gliders to care for, they were in a better position to take the gliders and continue with the meds. Full disclosure was made to the new owner, the new owner fully understands the course of treatment and has a vet who can take over if the need arises and for follow up care. So Val lets them go to their new home but continues to be available for support to help incase the new owner has problems.

In cases like this, I see no reason to not let the gliders go to their new homes.


I agree with the first half of this, but not the latter.

I will NOT release a rescue without a clean bill of health, I just can't take the chance that the new will continue to dispense the meds, clean as required, or other measures to ensure the glider is free from parasites/illnesses. Once out of my hands, I have no control over what the new home will or won't do.

Placing a glider is easy, making sure it's new home will be a forever home, not so much.

If the glider is healthy, free from illness/parasites, the new owner doesn't have the burden of the extra work that's required of a sick glider, you raise the success rate of that home being permanent for the glider.

A permanent home for a glider is what makes a rescue a success, not just removing it from a bad sitution. JMHO

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ] #907672
02/15/10 10:26 PM
02/15/10 10:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
I agree with Tammy especially if this person has other animals.


TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


www.fancysuggies.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: ] #907675
02/15/10 10:29 PM
02/15/10 10:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
So Tammy, you believe you are the only one able to take proper care of a sick glider? What if you place a healthy glider who then gets sick a month later? Is that person with the glider any less capable of taking care of it?

There have been others before you that felt no one could care for the gliders as good as they could. One got really overwhelmed and we were able to help her get down to a manageable number but it was REALLY hard on her to let them go. The other, well, she is a horder and had to shut down her rescue (or it was shut down for her by the city).

If you can't trust a home to care for what MIGHT happen with gliders, then you shouldn't place gliders in that home. If the home is fully prepared for an ill glider but only has THOSE gliders to care for, compared to potentially 20,30 or more other rescues, then why shouldn't they?


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907680
02/15/10 10:39 PM
02/15/10 10:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
MatchMakerMagic Offline
Glider Addict
MatchMakerMagic  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
I dont think that is what Tammy said at all. I think she prefers to make sure HERSELF that proper care is given just in case. A matter of preference, not that a new owner CANT.


Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: MatchMakerMagic] #907684
02/15/10 10:56 PM
02/15/10 10:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
Both Val and Tammy's method would be acceptable, IMO, as the new owners would have knowledge of the glider/s condition as well as medical treatment prior to their receiving.

Expecting new owners to take on glider/s with medical issues without full disclosure should never happen.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907692
02/15/10 11:11 PM
02/15/10 11:11 PM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



Quote:
So Tammy, you believe you are the only one able to take proper care of a sick glider? What if you place a healthy glider who then gets sick a month later? Is that person with the glider any less capable of taking care of it?


No Teresa, that is not what I think nor did I say that. The post I made was about ME, how and why I do things, it was NOT directed against anyone or anything.

I said that I will only place a healthy glider, it is my standard practice and I listed my reasons for it.

If a glider I've placed should become ill a month or so later, I fully expect the new owner to be responsible for that glider but also as part of my adoption procedure, I offer ongoing support.

Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907693
02/15/10 11:11 PM
02/15/10 11:11 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Quote:
So Tammy, you believe you are the only one able to take proper care of a sick glider?


That absolutely is NOT what Tammy is saying, and I'm sure most of us know it. I find this line of thinking absurd.

I can say that I absolutely would NEVER knowingly let a sick or injured glider leave my home. There are many reasons for this, none of which are about ME or my ability to care for gliders, and ALL of which are about the GLIDER and the new owner.

1) STRESS of moving to yet ANOTHER home could EXACERBATE the situation. Am I the only person in this community who has had a glider with parasites who began to have diarrhea which lead to SM of the cloaca? No, a glider being actively treated for a parasite will NOT leave my home until I have several negative parasite tests. The potential new home would be kept informed, and they would receive written, documented proof from my vet that the glider had been properly treated and was now free of an active parasitic infection.

Moving a glider who is being treated is not MY idea of responsible care. This could cause stress sufficient to activate a SECONDARY parasitic infection OR to slow the rate of recovery. (Stress and recovery rates are one of the topics we will be discussing/learning about at the RRRoundup this weekend). Doing anything that might exacerbate the situation or that might slow healing is not in the GLIDER's best interest. It does not matter if the new home is a parasitologist with 48674894 years of experience. The potential devastating effects of the stress caused by the move are not a risk I am willing to take.

Quote:
What if you place a healthy glider who then gets sick a month later? Is that person with the glider any less capable of taking care of it?


The issue is NOT AT ALL who takes better care of gliders. The issue is that you have a SICK glider. It is always a risk that a glider will test positive for a parasite after arriving at a new home. However, everyone who adopts from me knows two things: 1) The glider tested negative HERE before leaving and they have documentation from my vet stating as much and 2) I WILL help them with the cost and burden of treating if they have a glider test positive in their first wellness check. This is one of the reasons I REQUIRE documented proof of a wellness check within 10 days of the glider arriving at it's new home. It is part of my contract.

This risk exists and we prepare new homes for the risk. I do NOT send them a sick glider.

2) Because I know that a "simple" illness can go from "simple" to "lethal" very quickly in a glider, I cannot in good conscience send the glider away during treatment. As Tammy said - I have no control once the glider leaves my home. I don't know how everyone else works except what I have seen here. But when you adopt from ME, you are getting a HEALTHY glider that I have worked and worked with to make a great PET. In general, people are very excited to adopt from me. They have pictures and updates on their new gliders for a while before they come home, just like if they were purchasing a joey from a reputable breeder.
Now, If I send a sick or injured glider to the home of a person who is very excited to get the glider, and the glider's situation is escalated and then the glider DIES, I would feel just terrible. I cannot in good conscience risk this with the PERSON that I have come to know and care about during the adoption process. It is difficult to hear that your hoped for baby has passed away, but not nearly as difficult as having it happen in your home. I will save someone that pain when I can. In cases like this, it is very easy to eliminate the risk. The glider gets well here before it leaves, PERIOD.

3) Placing an additional financial burden upon an adoptive home is not really in any adoptive home's plans. One of the benefits to being a legally registered and licensed rescue home is that I get a discount on vet care, so it is more cost effective for ME to continue the treatment. Often, adoptive homes will help with the care, other times they won't. Either way, the glider sees a very experienced vet for a better price. Again, just responsible care IMO.

4) Continuity of care is a big deal in the human health field, and I carry that over to my glider care. It is in the glider's best interest to be followed by the same vet when possible during the course of treatment.

5) In the specific example mentioned, we are talking about a parasite infection. No, I will not spread parasites to another home. Containment is essential in elimination. The gliders will remain in my home in quarantine until they are no longer taking unwanted guests with them to their new home. Again, this is about people. Parasites are zoonotic. I will not knowingly expose another person or their family to an active infection. Anyone watch the show "Monsters Inside Me?" It is a fascinating program about the devastation that PARASITES cause to humans.

6) Offering HEALTHY pet gliders is one of my policies and I am proud of it. I don't think I provide better care than an adoptive home will. But, I absolutely will finish what I started. People desire to adopt from me because they know they are getting quality in their adoption process as well as getting to adopt some babies that need a forever home. These people deserve my respect and consideration. They deserve my hard work. They deserve to get what I advertise. I won't lower my standard because someone on a glider board accuses me of "thinking I'm better than others." The truth is, I just really love gliders and love people. I will do my best to do right by both in the daily business of running my rescue home.


I could go on and on, but the end result is the same. It is standard policy here that a sick or injured glider does not leave. This is in the glider's and new owner's best interest IMO. There is a huge difference between a critical situation (active infection, parasite, etc) and a stable situation. I will (and have) rehome gliders with special needs (seizures, mobility issues, kidney/liver issues) and trust their new home to continue their medical care. I will not rehome a glider that is actively undergoing treatment and is not labeled as "stable condition" by my vet. We don't relocate humans from one treatment facility to another until they are stable either. This is nothing new.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #907699
02/15/10 11:28 PM
02/15/10 11:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
Excellent post, Val.

If Eddie and I could be sure all rescuers were operating as you and Tammy do, I think it would be pretty safe to say GliderCENTRAL's policy towards rescues might change.


Quote:
I won't lower my standard because someone on a glider board accuses me of "thinking I'm better than others."


I certainly hope that you don't. Whoever said it, I pray it was not a rescuer still taking in gliders shakehead


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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #907804
02/16/10 09:20 AM
02/16/10 09:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline OP
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Excellent posts Tammy and Val. And that pretty much sums up the reason that I started this post. There is just a lot that a new person who wants to rescue needs to think about before they start out. It is so much more than just moving gliders from point A to point B. It is more that just financial accountability. It is a whole package with a standard of excellence. And we as a group need to do as much as we can to help the newbies.

Lets look at the railroad CyndieKB made where she picked up a glider that she felt needed to be put down. If I had been the one driving, I would not have made that decision. I don't feel like I have the expertise to make that decision. And OMGosh, it tears me up to even think about it. So I am a volunteer that helps rescues move gliders, but the hard life and death choices need to left up to those who have the background to make them. And this is just another example of where we need more experienced hands on people doing rescue work. Because I dont know if someone who just started out would be able to make those kinds of gut wrenching choices alone. And when the time comes, they will need the support of those who have been there and done that.


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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: hushpuppy] #907885
02/16/10 12:53 PM
02/16/10 12:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Val, Tammy, you both made excellent points.

Tammy, I was not trying to attack you, and I should have put it as a "hypothetical" rescuer, instead of directing my question directly to you. I'm sorry, I reread and realized it did seem as a personal attack. It truly was not meant to be.

I just want to make clear, I do not send on sick/injured gliders either.

I do want to ask then, do you feel, and why, that it is alright for an owner to send an ill glider halfway across the country to get it to a rescue home?

Also, if the "new home" was two blocks from you, and have no other gliders in their home (making quarentine a non-issue) would that change your position?

Also, Val, I specifically am asking you this one. I know you drive a very long distance to go to your vet. Is it any less stressful for the sick glider to make that drive back and forth to your vet? Do you have a vet close by that can treat gliders?

I feel it is imperative to have a vet within an hour's reach of the rescue home. We all know how fast these gliders can go from bad to dead without prompt vet intervention.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907917
02/16/10 02:14 PM
02/16/10 02:14 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
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Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Quote:
Do you have a vet close by that can treat gliders?


Yes I do. I have been using Dr. Pearson in Amarillo for a long while. He stays in close contact with Dr. Walsh and is making great progress in learning about gliders. He is one of the most fantastic emergency surgeons I have ever worked with.

I still drive to Tulsa every 6-10 weeks, as Dr. Walsh is the vet for my special needs babies and any difficult cases. ALL of my neuters are done in Tulsa. Dr. Walsh is my vet of choice, and I would love it if he were closer. He is not, so I found a vet nearby who was willing and capable of learning and have been working with him for over a year.


Last edited by Jackie_Chans_Mom; 02/16/10 02:15 PM.

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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #907996
02/16/10 04:54 PM
02/16/10 04:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
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cyndiekb  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Originally Posted By: Dancing

I feel it is imperative to have a vet within an hour's reach of the rescue home.



In a perfect world YES I agree but in reality we just don't all have glider knowledgeable vets at arms reach. Mine are all over an hour and a half away. Does that mean I should not rescue? I would, depending on the situation, and would not let the vet being that far out stop me. I wont be a rescue home though so it is not a big issue for me. I am just happy we have rescues that can, and will make the trip to the vet since we also know we have others that wont.

When I win the lotto we will have vets placed in facility smile come on multi million winning ticket!


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #908035
02/16/10 06:05 PM
02/16/10 06:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Val, that's really fantastic. I admit, I have worried about Dr. Walsh being so far from you. I'm very relieved and happy that you do have a vet close.

CKB, no, it doesn't mean you shouldn't rescue but if we are talking about "rescue homes", I believe they should have a vet fairly close by. So much can and often does go wrong with rescues that are surrendered. I have 2 vets I can go to in an emergency that are 20 miles (time depends on how fast I drive there, made it in 12 minutes once!) and then another vet (Dr. Bradley) that is an hour and 20 minutes from me. Dr. Bradley is by far more experienced but, when time is crutial for life supportive measures, I do have those closer I can go to.

Having a vet that can/will do life supportive care until the glider can be stabalized enough to get to the more experienced yet further away vet is important. Especially when the distance is what Val has with Dr. Walsh. That's all I was getting at.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: Dancing] #908187
02/16/10 10:38 PM
02/16/10 10:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 385
Wallis, Texas
mary h Offline
Glider Lover
mary h  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 385
Wallis, Texas
...I guess I'm very lucky to have two vets. Since we live out here in the country it takes about an hour to get to each one...but...any thing serious and I can get two opinions. I like that.

Mary


mary h
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: mary h] #908188
02/16/10 10:40 PM
02/16/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Val, thank you for that post. Very informative!


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: GliderNursery] #908219
02/16/10 11:29 PM
02/16/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
wave Mary

Good to see you join in this conversation. You probably have some good info to share.


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Re: Professional Rescues [Re: KarenE] #911062
02/23/10 01:58 PM
02/23/10 01:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
cyndiekb Offline
Serious Glideritis
cyndiekb  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 5,916
Cornersville TN I'M HOME :)
Sorry this thread got on page 2.

Some thoughts on rescue homes.

Would we support one that also has breeders? (me personally I would not recommend doing both breeding and rescuing) I would think a USDA license would have to be 100% mandatory for anyone doing both.


I think before anyone is allowed to ask for donations they should be in compliance with some sort of the community standards. I also think neutering males is a given standard across the board and should be done before moving rescues.

On top of that we must determine the difference between a rescue, and rehome as well as a breeder, broker, and rescuer.

I am of the opinion these terms are being used to loosely. Thus causing conflict betweens some members.


cyndiekb

I heart & miss you HALEY

My runaways 4/04 Lilo, 5/04 Dash & Angel

angel Sprite Says GO STEALTH!! at
AtticWorx
Re: Professional Rescues [Re: cyndiekb] #911070
02/23/10 02:15 PM
02/23/10 02:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,171
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: cyndiekb
Sorry this thread got on page 2.

Some thoughts on rescue homes.

Would we support one that also has breeders? (me personally I would not recommend doing both breeding and rescuing) I would think a USDA license would have to be 100% mandatory for anyone doing both.

I agree, Cindie, it is probably not a good idea to have breeding and rescuing in the same home unless there is enough room to give them their own designated areas plus designated areas for quarantine when necessary. We are talkin about a very big home or a good size separate facility.

I completely agree with the USDA license.



I think before anyone is allowed to ask for donations they should be in compliance with some sort of the community standards. I also think neutering males is a given standard across the board and should be done before moving rescues.

Once again, I agree. The community is now so saturated with unwanted gliders, there has to be standards set for established rescuers as well as those popping up.

On top of that we must determine the difference between a rescue, and rehome as well as a breeder, broker, and rescuer.

I am of the opinion these terms are being used to loosely. Thus causing conflict betweens some members.





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