Ok there's been the debate on whether some of the obesity we've been seeing in gliders can be genetically related and only to certain colors or lines. My only obese gliders are wfb so I'll start there.

2 of my obese wfb boys are from the
Pele wfb & Iris gray who were from Mary & Charlie. The breeding relatives from this line would be Pele 2 & Scarlet from Judie H.

my other obese wfb has a different lineage & don't see any relations.

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/j...nt=c660e3a3.jpg


Now I know there is the debate that it is all diet related and husbandry, which could be but we have to try and see if there are other reasons. Out of 19 gliders, all same diet, same type of living conditions with cages, play time and such 3 are obese. Out of 6 WFB's 3 are obese, 2 from the same line.

So let's see where this can go- So if you have an obese glider please post it's family tree & color as far back as you know so we can start to track if it's possibly a genetic issue.

Nancy this is the lineage behind Robin..
http://www.thepetglider.com/index/online-pedigree-program.html

You know my non breeder from PP. The vet and I have been doing a lot of brain work on the cause of Robin's obesity. Nothing yet. I have spoken to Pricilla about this many times and she felt that there was no cause that Robin just had some sort of metabolic in balance causing her to process food differently. Since you see snow white in there who is in a lot of Mosaic backgrounds I was always wondered if I could trace it. But so far no other family member that Pricilla or I can think of is obese to the degree that Robin is.

I have one overweight glider, Morrsion. He is slightly overweight. He is from Shade and Beau Girl at the Pet Glider. I used to have another overweight glider from that line, Garcia. Garcia was out of Matt and Jade. Garcia was diagnosed with Hypothyroidism by his new owners vet. I have discussed the possibility of Morrison having Hypothyroidism with my vet, and he said it is a possibility. (But Morrison has NOT been diagnosed with it) Because of this possibility I decided to have Morrison neutered and see if that helps. This is something that can be passed down genetically from what I understand. I did notify Priscilla and the parents are in good heath and still breeding.

Glade to see topics like this starting to come up and thinking outside the box

So Erin- your Morrison shares Shade with Robin- how does Garcia share that same line?

Pele(WF Blonde)x Iris(normal)

Last male offspring produced by the above was named Pele II(WFB)x Rosemary(Normal)

No obesity in Pele II nor in Rosemary.

Scarlett(WF Blonde) out of Pele(WF Blonde) and Iris(Normal)

Scarlet: small female and normal weight.

I have Sugar and Her dad Rocko who are overweight, both WFB. Sugars mom and dad are Rocko(Lg WFB from aggiecutie) and Roxy(small WFB from missbee).

Morrison is out of Shade and Beau Girl, Shade is out of Shadow and Pan.

Garcia is out of Matt x Jade, Matt is out of Matthew x Shine, Shine is out of Shadow x Pan.

Shadow and Pan are Morrison's Grandparents and Garcia'd great grand parents. This line originted from Alfie and Alice, who were originals with no background. They are the parents of Shadow.

Vu (now deceased )

Parents: Godfrey x Lucy

Below is their lineage posted in Jan. by Danielle (K & D breeder)

**I got Godfrey from Mike Sandridge. Here is how the line went according to him when I purchased him.

Cereal (WFB) and Jez (N) had Doc (het for WFB)
Cereal (WFB) and Jemina (N) had Princess (WFB)

Doc (het WFB) and Princess (WFB) had Godfrey (WFB)

Harry (N) and Sally (N) had Lucy (N)

Godfrey (WFB) and Lucy (N) had Vu (WFB) and Stitch (WFB)

Godfrey (WFB) and Lucy (N) also had a male Chase (WFB) who I put with Sadie (N)

Sadie came from :

Morelli (N) and Macie (N)

(Cyndie will post Lily's lineage as best she can)

Lily

Honey

her dad is Stud his mom is Minx his dad is Oscar out of Pele and Iris


her mom is Muffin her parents are Cliff and Molly

Zeus

his dad is gussy out of cereal and unknown mom

his mom is Skye her parents are not known

Karin what are their colors- your fluffy one's?

how do you know if your glider is obese? is there a certain weight they have to pass?

WFB

My most BEEEUUUTTTeeeFUL fluffy one is Noel she is 208 grams. She has rolls you know she is over weight by looking at her. Think chipmunk cheeks

For males I think most agree that above 160grams your getting in to the obese range & for females above 120grams would start putting them in the obese range.

My obese gliders, the males are 170 & 180 down from 200 at one time. My female is 140.

Most my other males range from 100-120grams & my females range from 70-95grams

what's her color and family line?

hi erin,
just to let you know rocky( who is from garcia and lola, the grandparents being mat and jade) is sterile.
he is not fat though.

regards,
nancy

I have 2 female gliders who are 125 grams each.
one of them looks fat, she always has since she was a joey. she's clumsy, and she has little glider boobs.
but the other one looks little, and perfectly proportioned. and they weigh the same.
it's weird.

I have 2 overweight gliders, 1 ex-overwight gliders(now he's just kinda flabby) and 1 glider that isn't overweight, but just HUGE.

Silvara is about 150g and is a WFB/100% leu het. The WF is from her mom's side and her mom, Nakita, is from Julian and Kalani(WF from Julian and Kalani).

Gilthanas is probably 150/160g by now and is a WFB mosaic from Tinkerbelle(mosaic) and Poppins(4.5 gen WFB from Rex and Gardenia).

Milky Way used to be overweight. He's not down to about 130g and is from Haley(WF platinum from Bailey and Lil Dipper) and Mickey.

Carmine is about 140/150g and is NOT fat, he's just REALLY big. He's from Scarlett(WF from Pele and Iris) and Stitch(WF from Godfrey and Lucy).

Mr.Buddah man Dapple is a WFB, gorgeous he is, however he is over 200grams.

He is out of River, Merlin line.

My female Gabby- I do not know her lineage got her from Mike McGarth But her weight is 187 grams and Chase is 215 grams and I got him from The Pet Glider both are normal grays.

Nancy, Rocky is sterile!? Why do you think that? DId he not develop? The female that Monica paired him with had been retired for cannabilizing her joeys before Monica got her and started breeding her. Their next pair was cannablized at 7 weeks OOP. I wonder if they were related? That would explain the sterility and them killing the joeys... Monica had no lineage on them...Garcia is now neutered due to the hypothyroidism.

Cora- no further family history?



Amy- do you know who Chase parents are?

Not to muddle this thread, but my WF I am referring to are/were both far over 200g. Closer to the mid 250's. My grays and other colors are/were fluffy, but not FLUFFY.

Karin

No I do not know who Chase's parents are. I am sending Priscilla an email to she if she can look it up for me. Once I find out I will post it here.

Nicole- Interesting- you say Carmine is really big. He is a child from 2 lines that are showing a pattern of obese gliders. What color is he?

This is what I have so far-

Pele/Iris line
4 obese 3 being wfb & not sure on Carmine

Shade-Snow White-Pan line
3- 1 gray and not sure on Morrison & Garcia

Godfrey/Lucy- Cereal line
3 - 2 wfb's & Carmine shows up again

Frodo/Noel- Sammie Hope
2 - 1 wfb & a leu

Color doesn't matter. We want to know.

Remember when posting.

Please include your gliders name, their color and their family history as far back as you know. There's a couple family trees that are popping up multiple times & only a few unknowns.

I know we all started somewhere & I do have gliders from the mentioned lines that are currently not obese. Me personally with the lines that are having a higher % of having gliders obese from their lines, diet is a big concern for me.

Woah!!!! I just noticed something!! My Abby girl is.. "bigger" has been from early on and a few of her joeys have been on the "bigger" side too. I think her last weight was 152 grams. I can't recheck for a bit because she has a joey about to come OOP. But her Father Noah a WFB was bred by Peggy and the parents were Merlin and River. I'll attach a picture of her.

She has always been bordering on being a big girl not nessicarly obese but I'm sure everyone will remember her daughter Grace who was one chunky monkey but now Grace has fully evened out weight wise and is at 80 grams.

Ohh Abby is a "Lion Coloring" out of a WFB and a Lion..

http://www.laurensanimalkingdom.com/AandZ.html you can see her lineage listed below along with her mate Zach. To my knowledge her parents are average size gliders.

Nancy,

Garcia is grey out of a WFB (Jade) and a lion (Matt)

Morrison is a "beige" color, but now he looks more grey. His color has faded as he got older. He got that color from Shade, who is a lion.

I have Nala, one of Morrisons joeys and she is a good weight at 85 grams. Her momma is very small though.

It seems that you may be onto something, however with there being so many different subspecies of gliders do you this that this line could just have larger gliders to begin with?

It could be, so the next thing to cross reference is to cross reference deaths in these lines - is it obesity or is it big boned.

My only fluffy glider is Wiggles, he's toppling the scale at 129 grams (just weighed him tonight). While he's not as big as many I've seen, he's at least 15 grams overweight according to my vet (was 25 grams but we've gotten him down from 138 in January with extra exercise and limited treats). He is a gray. Great Grandparents on his dad's side are Godfrey & Lucy and also Stitch & Scarlett.

Zach's side is popping up also from the Alfie/Alice

Nancy, I only know that Rocko is from another line missbee had (on his dads side that is). I remember aggiecutie picked up Rockos dad from missbee at the first SGR. There is a member here that is in contact with missbee from time time and has a list of my questions for her. One of those questions being lineage. Wish I had known to get it back then. Even if I could get a generation or 2 back that would be better than nothing. Now we all know Spencer (WFC) is overweight he was bought from Mike Sandridge but he said he had no clue who his parents are.

Yea I saw his lineage still there but with him being normal sized if not below average and all his joeys that while nice and round when they came OOP are all now normal sized joeys, with some chubby cheeks

just clarifying that lineage is for the joeys OF Zach and Abby. Zach is not IN Abby's.

Do any of these overweight gliders exhibit symptoms of Hypothyroidism? Symptoms include being overweight despite good diet and exercise, dry flaky skin on ears and lower back, thickened discolored nails, overgrooming or self mutilation? I am wondering of this could be the underlaying cause of the obesity in this line...

Sugar was tested for diabetes and Hypothyroidism when she had a blood draw done recently....................all OK. She has peridontal disease.

Chase is out of Bronson/Bonnie.

Carmine is a WF gray. I'll take a picture of him to post tomorrow because I only have head-shots of him. He might be "big boned", but I wouldn't call him fluffy at all. He looks nice and healthy for his size/weight. I just checkde his paperwork from when I got him a little over a month ago and he was 144g.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add Axl. He was weighed right before I got him and was 134g, but looking at him tonight I'd say he's at LEAST 150g. I'll try and get a weight for him tomorrow. Axl is a WT, but one of his parents was a WFB(Frosti, from Ginger, a cinnamon, and Josh, a WFB). I don't know any further back on the lineage then that, so if anyone else does, please fill me in!

hi erin,
yes,rocky is sterile, never developed. i pm'd you.

I know Lauren. Zach may be average sized but if genetics have anything to do with weight & build, he and Abby have it in their trees which would then give their joey's a higher % of being big themselves. They wouldn't just get it from mom.

Interesting & yes with my 2 boys. My boys have the thicker nails & recently started over grooming. We've been trying to narrow down the over grooming since they both were doing it.Ruled out parasites & urine tests didn't show anything. Blood work on Sora's brother is the next step once I get Sora's pathology report.

I Have a Glider from the pele/iris line, he too is "big boned, very well proportioned. Seems to be just like Pele, Lets not confuse the "obese" with the bigger size/proportioned gliders. When I got him, I commented on how big he was, I thought (he looked to be much heavier than what he was. when I weighed him out he still only weighed 150 grams. his whole body is a bit larger in size, His face seems to be the size of 2 of jack's, he is doing fine, no problems at all

Nancy I will be interested in what you find with the blood test. Hypothyroidism can be genetic. I have not had Morrison tested yet.

Bourbon I agree with you, Morrison had always been big boned, but he got even bigger and my vet told me he was a little over weight at the last visit. Weight is such a difficult subject since it varies so greatly between the gliders. I do think gliders in this line are naturally larger to begin with.

this thread and the other thread almost go hand & hand but are 2 different issues. So I'm posting this over hear since it applies here.



That's what I've been wondering about Nesha's boys. They are big but don't seem fat- their weight fits their frame. But vets and other people see their weight number & their size and instantly say their over weight because of the % of average sized gliders.

That's partly why I wanted to track down the family trees that are showing up in these larger/obese gliders.

I is also what you can't see I told my vet Patches needed 15 grams to be back where I thought he should be. My vet assured me he saw PLENTY of fat on my kid during his procedure. Anything more would be too much. I still have it in my head he looked better 15 grams heavier but now I know appearance is not the most important part of determining if they are in fact over weight.

I received a female white faced gray w/no information about her more than 2 years ago who was quite obese.

She was received by another glider owner as a rescue to be a cagemate for a single glider and it didn't work. She was so fat that her nose was constantly purple and she could not properly clean herself.

I put her on Priscilla's diet and she slimmed down enough for her heart to not have to work so hard. After a good vet check, she went to a permanent home.

HERE ARE SOME PICS OF MY OVER WEIGHT GLIDERS. THIS TWO NEVER SEEM TO GET FULL. WHERE MY OTHER 12 CAN GET THE SAME ABOUT OF FOOD IN FRONT OF THEM AND THEY WON'T EAT NO MORE DUE TO BEING FULL. THE 4TH PIC IS OF GABBY,CHASE AND ONE OF THEIR CAGE MATES WILL. LOOK AT THE SIZE DIFFERENCE.

Per Judie's post in the other thread, Stitch is also obese (244g). He is Vu's twin brother. This makes both boys in the mid 200g range.

Karin

Dekota weighed 189 grams yesterday. He is out of Sir Lance and Mystic. I was also told today that one of Skye & Dekota's joeys is also a little large but I don't have his weight yet. The joey is a wf male and will be 1 year oop next month.

Skye weighed 140 grams with a joey ip. She is out of Merrick & Morrigan.

Skye & Dekota are both wf.

Ok this is where we are. The gliders are listed under the starting ancestor in their line. The * means they appear in more than one line listed. The randoms either mean no lineage or no others share the same lineage- there's a couple I have to double check.

From Pele/Iris line
Riku- wfb
Sora-wfb
Lily- wfb
*Carmine - wf
*Buttercup
*Blossom
*Dekota - wf
Bourbons male
Honey- wf
*Wiggles-gray
Linus
Leila

Godfrey/Lucy line/Cereal
Vu - wfb
*Carmine
*Buttercup
Stitch - wfb
*Dekota -wf
Skye - wf
*Wiggles -gray
Silvara - wfb
Milky Way - leu
Rex- Wfb
Alfie/Alice line
Robin - Gray
Morrison - Gray
Garcia - Gray



Merlin/River
Dapple - wfb
Abby - lion

Randoms & double check line hasn't been mentioned
Kairi -wfb
Sugar-wfb
Axl - wt
Spencer - wfc
Rocko- wfb
Serenity - gray
Noel - gray
Gabby - gray
Chase- gray
Gilthanas
Abigail

let me know if I need to correct anyone

Wiggles' great grandparents on his dad's side are Godfrey/Lucy and Stitch/Scarlet, his dad is Lynsie's boy Bear. He's a standard gray if you need to know color, and his OOP date is 10/19/07

The Godfrey/Lucy line IS the Cereal line because Godfrey(WF) is from Doc and Princess. Doc is a gray from Cereal and Jaz and Princess is a WF from Cereal and Jasmine.

Just trying to understand this..

cereal and jaz - parents
doc -son
godfrey -grandson

cereal jasmine (is this the same jaz?)- parents
princess wf- daughter

so since princess and doc is the parents of godfrey does that mean that they are full brother and sister?

are you absolutely sure on these linages?? or could they also be wrong in the db's?

I know Sheila stated that her Galilieo had thyroid problems, and although I never saw him in person, I seen pictures of him and he was a very large WF and died at a young age too.

I've asked and haven't gotten an answer yet so I'll ask again. What line was Galilieo from?

I talked to Sheila yesterday. She is on vacation but she told me that Galilieo is Haley's brother. She said he was about 4 years old and was obese.

Okay, so this means which line? Haley and Galilieo are out of what line?

Here ya go Tammy. They are out of the Cereal line.

http://www.thepetglider.com/index/online-pedigree-program.html

Thanks, I thought so Nicole. I had it listed that way on my notes but doubted myself since it was so late and was going to double check in the am.

They're half brother/sister. Same dad, different moms. Unfortunately, alot of the WFs from the cereal line seem to have alot of inbreeding in them.

My Noel was Sheila's Noel and right now I can't really tell you who he is out of. I have the info someplace but will not rely on my brain at all (i think she was paired with frodo but I cant even swear to that. I just know that name is stuck in my head.)

Ohh Noel is grey.

Noel and Frodo were together because I have a glider who came from them.

I have 3 WF gliders out of 2 different lines.

Sir Lance, not obese, out of Scarlett & Stitch
Chloe and Ellie, twins, not obese, out of Aphrodite & Pippen

I am not "aware" of any of their joeys becoming overweight either.

OK, so I just came in on this thread....so I don't know if my info is necessary but here goes...

I have Isabeau (from Sheila) who is from Banjo and Dione, Banjo being out of Scarlett and Stitch, and I show Stitch being out of Godfrey and Lucy? So I think Isabeau should be included.

She is a WFB/50% leu het, she is petite and not big boned at all, or over weight.

If she is to be included in this list, then I will report ANY kind of issues with her if I ever have any.

Her OOP date was 1-8-08 and she is healthy at this time.

Nicki has Isabeau's first set of joeys, one gray and one WFB and I can contact her so she can provide info if she has any. I have Shakespeare a WFB - he is not big boned or overweight as of yet, he is sort of petite like his mother, he was OOP 12-9-08 from Isabeau (and Dartanion)
Isabeau currently has 2 joeys just OOP March 15th, 1 male and 1 female, both WF.

Correction on this one. Doc is out of Cereal and Jez and Princess is out of Cereal and Jemima or Jemina.