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Importance of Breeding Diet Balance #729426
02/03/09 06:45 AM
02/03/09 06:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
There used to be a theory that it was important to increase the protein & calcium levels in a breeding mother's diet to help with milk production. That is a MYTH! Please take a few moments to read this so you can feed your breeding gliders properly.
The old-school theory behind increasing protein levels was because in the wild, a glider's breeding season is when protein is more plentiful. However, in captivity, if feeding your gliders a "proven diet" then the nutritional ratios of protein, calcium and other nutrients are in balance year-round, so increasing just the protein and calcium is not necessary.
In captivity, gliders will breed year-round for two reasons: constancy in diet and constancy in climate.
So, then, what do you need to do to help ensure milk production in your breeding gliders? First, make sure your gliders are already on a Proven Diet. Then, simply increase the overall portions of all dietary components. This includes the "nectar" (BML, Ensure, HPW, etc.), the fruits and the vegetables.
For example, if feeding the Back to Basics BML diet:
* For a non-breeding pair of gliders, you would normally give 2 Tbsp. BML nectar, 2 Tbsp. vegetables and 2 Tbsp. of fruits to your gliders each evening.
* For a breeding pair, you would increase the portions and give 3 Tbsp. BML nectar, 3 Tbsp. vegetables and 3 Tbsp. of fruits to your gliders each evening.
I hope this helps to clarify some of the confusion about how to feed breeding gliders.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: sugarglidersuz] #729455
02/03/09 08:40 AM
02/03/09 08:40 AM

S
streetdoc
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streetdoc
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So then I'm curious. The HPW recipe I have says to increase the HPW powder to 1/2 cup for breeding/lactating mothers. So should I not increase the powder, just increase the amount of mix provided?

Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: ] #729919
02/04/09 06:08 AM
02/04/09 06:08 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
I should have addressed that in the original post - I'm glad you asked laugh
With HPW, you DO increase the Wombaroo powder from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup. I would also increase the overall portions as well.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: sugarglidersuz] #729988
02/04/09 10:45 AM
02/04/09 10:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
MatchMakerMagic Offline
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MatchMakerMagic  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,785
Port Saint Lucie, FL
Originally Posted By: sugarglidersuz
I should have addressed that in the original post - I'm glad you asked laugh
With HPW, you DO increase the Wombaroo powder from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup. I would also increase the overall portions as well.


Wouldn't that increase the HPW mix's Ca:P ratio? With it being around 1:1 (maybe 1.29:1) with the 1/4 cup powder adding more of the powder would alter the ratio right?


Kinue

ISTJ
When it rains, it pours...

www.serenitysugargliders.homestead.com
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: MatchMakerMagic] #729991
02/04/09 10:54 AM
02/04/09 10:54 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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ValkyrieMome  Offline
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Suz - I personally don't increase the HPW powder in the mix. I feed all my gliders a "middle" formula. I use 1/3 cup of the Powder ... a bit more than called for in the regular formula, a bit less than the breeder's formula.

No, Peggy (I can hear you now!) I did not run all the percentages, etc, by my vet. However, I did discuss it with her. She is familiar in a general way with the HPW diet, and I tried the best I could to explain to her the purpose to the powder.

I do feed my pregnant/nursing mothers more in volume. I increase the amount of food I give them. But I do not have a "Normal" and "breeder's" mix of the HPW - just the one.

I've been doing this for almost a year and a half. I know - everyone ALWAYS says "I've been feeding this garbage for over a year and haven't had any problems, so I'm going to keep poisoning my gliders despite your good advice." I'm not trying to cop that attitude!

I'd just like to know if what I'm doing sounds remotely reasonable and/or practical and/or healthy?


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: ValkyrieMome] #730193
02/04/09 04:21 PM
02/04/09 04:21 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: MatchMakerMagic
Originally Posted By: sugarglidersuz
I should have addressed that in the original post - I'm glad you asked laugh
With HPW, you DO increase the Wombaroo powder from 1/4 cup to 1/2 cup. I would also increase the overall portions as well.


Wouldn't that increase the HPW mix's Ca:P ratio? With it being around 1:1 (maybe 1.29:1) with the 1/4 cup powder adding more of the powder would alter the ratio right?
Yes, it would alter the ratio, but it is what Peggy and Dr. Tristan recommend. Since they are the ones who came up with the HPW diet as it is fed now, then I recommend feeding it as they have devised.
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Suz - I personally don't increase the HPW powder in the mix. I feed all my gliders a "middle" formula. I use 1/3 cup of the Powder ... a bit more than called for in the regular formula, a bit less than the breeder's formula.

No, Peggy (I can hear you now!) I did not run all the percentages, etc, by my vet. However, I did discuss it with her. She is familiar in a general way with the HPW diet, and I tried the best I could to explain to her the purpose to the powder.

I do feed my pregnant/nursing mothers more in volume. I increase the amount of food I give them. But I do not have a "Normal" and "breeder's" mix of the HPW - just the one.

I've been doing this for almost a year and a half. I know - everyone ALWAYS says "I've been feeding this garbage for over a year and haven't had any problems, so I'm going to keep poisoning my gliders despite your good advice." I'm not trying to cop that attitude!

I'd just like to know if what I'm doing sounds remotely reasonable and/or practical and/or healthy?
Hopefully Peggy will come along with an answer to your question, Alden wink


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: sugarglidersuz] #731127
02/06/09 10:32 AM
02/06/09 10:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline
Glider Guardian
I

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
Suz, can you clarify:

Your 1st post said that there's no need to increase the protein with the different approved diets, but then you said to increase the HPW powder as directed (for lactating females) if using that diet. I thought the point of increaseing the powder was to increase the protein. So are you saying to go ahead & increase with the HPW diet but ALSO provide a larger portion of everything in the diet?

Misty

Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: IowaMisty] #731135
02/06/09 10:48 AM
02/06/09 10:48 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Suz, I feed HPW and agree 100% with your "theory", which is why I make only the regular HPW, not the breeder's formula.

I've had no problems and I even have a glider, Leda, who had weight issues(being UNDERweight) before I got her and had trouble with joeys(she didn't have her first joey OOP til she was around 2 years old and after that, only had singles) and now she's gained weight AND has already had 2 sets of twins since I got her!

Another thing you might want to address is WHEN to up the portions.

I'm not sure how you do it, but I start adding a little extra around the time the joey is about 3/4 weeks IP and beween that time and the time the joey comes OOP I slowly add more food so that by the time the joey is OOP the mom is getting an entire extra serving.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: Guerita135] #731245
02/06/09 03:20 PM
02/06/09 03:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
StitchsMom Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
StitchsMom  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,569
IL (St. Louis area)
Thanks for this post! thumb


~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~

:grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:

>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<
Re: Importance of Breeding Diet Balance [Re: Guerita135] #731332
02/06/09 05:22 PM
02/06/09 05:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Originally Posted By: IowaMisty
Suz, can you clarify:

Your 1st post said that there's no need to increase the protein with the different approved diets, but then you said to increase the HPW powder as directed (for lactating females) if using that diet. I thought the point of increaseing the powder was to increase the protein. So are you saying to go ahead & increase with the HPW diet but ALSO provide a larger portion of everything in the diet?

Misty
I do not feed the HPW diet. So, in deference to Peggy and Dr. Tristan, who devised it to begin with, I would recommend following the breeding diet the way they have written it wink
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
Suz, I feed HPW and agree 100% with your "theory", which is why I make only the regular HPW, not the breeder's formula.

I've had no problems and I even have a glider, Leda, who had weight issues(being UNDERweight) before I got her and had trouble with joeys(she didn't have her first joey OOP til she was around 2 years old and after that, only had singles) and now she's gained weight AND has already had 2 sets of twins since I got her!

Another thing you might want to address is WHEN to up the portions.

I'm not sure how you do it, but I start adding a little extra around the time the joey is about 3/4 weeks IP and beween that time and the time the joey comes OOP I slowly add more food so that by the time the joey is OOP the mom is getting an entire extra serving.
I actually start increasing portions as soon as I notice joeys are in pouch. That way, I can be sure the mother has plenty to eat for her entire lactation period thumb


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders

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