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Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70063
12/05/05 03:27 PM
12/05/05 03:27 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
S
SarahW Offline OP
Glider Lover
SarahW  Offline OP
Glider Lover
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
Hi all,

My computer broke last week and I have not had much access to the internet lately. I have a few minutes now so here is an update on Joey.

So the same night my computer broke, I was cleaning Joey and noticed that the e-collar was cutting into his throat and making it bleed a little. It had rubbed off the fur around the base of his neck because the doctor hadn't put moleskin on the collar. I called the vet and he said to remove the collar, put neosporin on it, and watch Joey like a hawk to make sure he didn't attack himself. He said to keep one of my gals in the cage with him to distract him. So I took off the collar and for two days things went fine. Joey licked off the KY if I put it on him, so the vet said not to put KY on him. With Sugar in the cage with him he calmed down a lot and began keeping regular glider "business hours".

But Saturday morning I went to give him medicine and I noticed that the tips of his penis forks were kind of hard to the touch. I saw black spots too and freaked out because I thought his tissue was dying. Joey was sleeping through the night so he wasn't getting up to groom and moisten his penis on his own. I put KY on and called the vet, who was on his way out the door for the weekend (because that's always how it works, right? The gliders get sick at night or on the weekend). He said to get Joey in a collar again ASAP (this time with moleskin) and keep the KY on him every four or five hours.

After struggling for two or three hours, I got a collar to stay on (BIG THANKS!!! to MaryH and Charlie H for their help and phone support!!!). I kept the KY on and his penis softened up a bit. It is a smaller collar (made of report cover material and not x-ray material) and he is more mobile so he can use his pouch and run in the wheel but he can't get to himself. It is probably the ugliest collar you would ever see, but it works!

The black spots turned out to be bits of hair and lint that had dried on his penis when it started to dry out. Over the weekend I have been able to get most of it off of him. Some of it is too small to get off with my fingers and I think Joey will have to get that stuff when he is able to groom again (eg, at the base of the head of the penis fork).

This morning I noticed two things: a layer of old, drier skin is starting to peel off his penis. New, healthy looking skin is visible underneath. I think this skin layer was preventing Joey from retracting the penis all the way - it was drier and stuck the two forks together. I rubbed a little bit off when I applied the KY, and called the vet. He said that was fine and not something to worry about. Since Joey had been overgrooming his penis, it probably damaged the outer layer (epidermis) and that when new skin grew in underneath the old skin would begin to peel a little bit. Also the KY would help to separate the old and new skin.

The second thing is that the Clavamax is beginning to turn from white to tannish in color. The vet said that since Joey was only to be on meds until Wednesday, it is ok to stop early rather than to risk giving him bad meds. If signs of the UTI return, I have to call right away to get new antibiotics.

The vet also said that Joey must remain in the e-collar until three days after his penis has fully retracted.

Anyway, it has been a stressful weekend but things are starting to look ok again. I won't have internet access too often, but please email me at []swerning@ou.edu[/] if you have questions or advice.

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70064
12/09/05 06:37 PM
12/09/05 06:37 PM

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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Sarah, how is Joey doing? I will try to give you a call this weekend to chat. I am praying he is doing better and you are getting some rest. Its so hard to care for a little sick one.
(((((hugs))))
Angie

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70065
12/14/05 01:04 AM
12/14/05 01:04 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
S
SarahW Offline OP
Glider Lover
SarahW  Offline OP
Glider Lover
S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
I just spent twenty minutes typing out a long update only to have it lost by a "form is no longer valid error" when I hit Continue. I guess it is pretty much the way the rest of my life is going so the word to the wise is to copy your text before sending is, in case you don't want to go through and retype everything that was miserable to type out the first time...

Basically, my life has been pretty [censored] since Joey got since. Everything that could go wrong short of someone dying has gone wrong (and I am grateful that the latter hasn't happened). Money is so tight right now and it's getting worse. We all know having a sick pet is expensive. Well the first visit was $120 plus I had to get things like Prep H and KY and Ensure and baby food and neosporin. So the day after spending $150, my truck got hit and the driver took off. I spent what seemed liked forever in the police station and when I got home I found out that my insurance wasn't paying bills from July. That week my computer broke down and the tech on the phone made the problem worse... when they fixed it they put the wrong version of Windows on my computer. This is a week before finals and grades are due in addition to my grad school applications and everything I need is on my computer. I have it back now and it seems to be ok, fortunately. But Friday I found out that next semester the department will only need me for .75 time instead of full time, so I'll lose a quarter of my income starting in January. And to make matters worse, they only pay health care according to how much you work but they require you to have it. So they will only pay 75% of my costs, which means that just as I lose $650/mo, I start getting $85/mo deducted from my paycheck. Then some jerk wedged a beer bottle under my tire so now I have to get two new tires, and yesterday my visit to the eye doctor was $320. This is on top of the college applications which all cost $60 or $75 plus sending out scores to each one at $15 a school.

This would be easier to handle if I could get any sleep but because I have to put KY on Joey every 5 or 5.5 hours, I haven't had more than 5.5 straight hours of sleep since the day after Thanksgiving. To make matters worse, Joey hasn't made any progress in a week. His penis is still a little less than 1cm stuck out and he has a little scab on the tip of one of the forks. I try to keep that area extra clean but it hurts him and he squirms if I try to remove hairs or rub off dry skin around it... I hope it is a scab and not necrotic tissue but it's been there for four days now and I'm starting to worry. This afternoon I noticed another dark red or black spot on the side of the same fork, where the tissue had looked great until this happened. I tried to clean off the spot but I can't get it off. I hope that it will come off tonight but I keep [censored] out in case it is necrosis... What frustrates me the most is that I know Joey can pull himself all the way in---I've seen him retract it and then push it back out again. Why won't he pull it in so it can heal right? I am doing everything right and now he still might have to have an amputation. Everything, every single thing that the vet has told me to do, I've done. I have lost sleep and changed my schedule and rearranged my life just so I can come home and take care of him every 5 or 6 hours. Why does this have to happen and why now? Why can't he just retract it and keep it in? It's not like I enjoy cleaning his penis every few hours any more than he does! With the new financial situation, I don't see how I can afford a surgery, but I'll have to do it because I want him to live and because I love him. But the amputations sometimes make life miserable for these little guys and then you have to take extra special care for the rest of their lives, if they don't die from complications from the surgery... I might have to get another job next semester to make up for the lost income and extra expense of health care---how can I get a new job if I have to come home every few hours to take care of a sick pet? How can I visit schools if there is noone who can care for Joey every few hours? I'm so tired as it is, and it's only been three weeks...how can I keep this up for longer periods of time?

I haven't had a good night's sleep in almost a month. I took the Biology GRE on Saturday and I know I didn't do so well, thanks to limited study time and not enough rest... with school and money and sick pet stress, I'm almost at the end of my rope. I am so tired and frustrated and I feel so guilty because it's not like Joey chose to do this to me. But this situation has so many unpleasant repercussions. Everything I wrote above, plus Joey hates me from the penis cleanings and KY application, and Meeko attacks my hands when I go in the cage because I smell like another male glider (Meeko is dominant and Joey has been separated long enough to lose Meeko's scent). Sugar and Spice are sad because they are separated so Joey and Meeko can have company. And this all adds to my money problems and to my stress levels.

I want to go home for Christmas, but with the money problems and Joey, I don't know if I'll be able to. I need a vacation so bad, but is it fair to Joey to go on a 14 hour drive? Can I keep him clean and lubed on a road trip? I don't think I can fit two cages in my truck bed, but I can't put Joey in with Meeko or Meeko will attack him. I don't think it's even legal to bring a sick exotic animal through Missouri... I want to see my family so bad, but now when I need it the most, it doesn't look feasible at all. And my boyfriend is coming in on the 27th, but I think we're in for another few days together of not being able to do anything because we have to be home every 5 hours to take care of Joey.

Please, if you have any kind words or stories of everything turing out ok just when you thought it was at its worst, please post them or email them to me. I'm so stressed and sad and worried and I would like to hear some positive news... Thanks so much for reading; it feels a lot better to get it out and off my chest.

Sarah

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70066
12/14/05 01:21 AM
12/14/05 01:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Hun, I do honestly feel your pain. Thanksgiving, my Sebastian SM his tail. On Dec. 6th, we had to have the end 3 inches amputated. I slept in my living room chair (which is NOT a recliner) every night since Thanksgiving up until last night. I have seen that "why are you doing this to me" look and it hurts so much. I know the effects of the constant worry. I know the fear that this is never going to end. Last night, Sebastian slept alone in his cage. First time since Thanksgiving. He has made it 3 days now without pain meds and without attacking his tail. I have had it easier then you have both with my glider and with the other aspects of my life but I do feel for you.

Things will get better. I'm in KS and if you need someone to glidersit for you, I will be more then happy to. I've kinda gotten used to no sleep.

Oh, and yes, you can take your gliders through MO.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70067
12/14/05 08:43 AM
12/14/05 08:43 AM

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Sarah, I am here if you need me to care for Joey for a while so you can have a break.
I do have a wonderful story for you! This story is about a little glider named Scooter, now his mom is named Debbie. Debbie had just gotten Scooter when he started chewing on his penis, she didn't know much about gliders but got him to a vet who did a amputation. Debbie posted here and somehow ended up calling me. She lives close by and came over. Debbie was going through some hard times and she wanted to do what was right for Scooter. She was torn, should she put him down as he seemed to be suffering or should she give him a chance to live and possibly recover which she wasn't sure was realalistic. Debbie brought Scooter over and I got to meet her, we talked for so long. Scotter was in a e-collar and he was still going after himself, Debbie was exhausted and I told her we would help babysit him so she could rest. She left Scooter here and after a few days he would start to miss her so she would take him home for a day or so and then bring him back. When Scooter was here someone had to be with him 24/7 so my husband and I took turns holding him, and he was hardly ever in the cage. If you weren't carefull you could get bit preaty hard as he had no control when the urge him him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> When he went home with Debbie she kept him on her the entire time too, even sleeping on the couch with him in her shirt. It took some time before he was well, he ended up having a UTI and a parasite but was not tested before the amputation. He did start chewing on the end of his tail and ended up having that amputated also. When the vet started treatment for the UTI and parasite he started to get well and we all relaxed a little bit. Today Scooter is out of the E-collar and doing great, he is with 2 females and living the pampered life. Its been over a year now since Scooter has recovered, if you come down again sometime you can meet him.
Please let me know if you need help. This weekend has been something wild here but I will call you and we can chat. Kiss Jeoy, Meeko and the boys for me.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Angie

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70068
12/14/05 11:30 PM
12/14/05 11:30 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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Sarah: I recently went through my first incident of a prolapsed penis with Phoenix. Despite negative results for UTI, bacterial/parasitic intestinal organisms and negative x-ray for kidney stones, my vet put Phoenix on Sulfatrim Suspension for 14 days and had me use Puralube vet Ointment (a petroleum-based ophthalmic ointment) 3 times/day instead of KY jelly as he doesn't like how KY jelly dries sort of rubbery-like. He worries that it could actually cause constriction around the penis and impede circulation to it. The opthalmic ointment Dr. T. prescribed melts when applied and does not leave a residue. It worked very well for Phoenix. Our biggest worry was that both tips of his bifurcated penis had small black spots (necrotic tissue) and we were hoping partial amputation would not be necessary. Fortunately, the necrotic spots sloughed off by themselves. Phoenix has fully recovered but it took a good three weeks for penal swelling to subside so that the penis would retract completely.

Dr. T's first question to me when I brought Phoenix in was whether he was under any stress. Told him possibly due to the twin boys (3 months OOP) becoming extremely active with scent glands already developing on their heads. So it was decided to move them into their own cage in case dad was feeling stressed from some sense of competition for dominence. Perhaps Meeko (being the dominant male) was slowly becoming more agressive with Joey causing stress which might have had some bearing on the penile prolapse.

Hang in there, sounds as though Joey is on the mend. Once recovered, you'll have to make a decision as to whether you want to try putting him back in with Meeko. From my understanding in conversations with Bourbon in the past, if a glider is kept away from a cagemate for more than a week, there can be problems with the glider being accepted back so you may want to consider introducing him to one of your females if Meeko acts agressive toward him once Joey is ready to have a cagemate again.

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70069
12/15/05 08:24 AM
12/15/05 08:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave
Charlie H  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
I have a theory on the causes of prolapsed penises. Since the tests come back negative most of the time I don't think bacterial infection is the problem. Although in the case of Glideroo's male no stones showed up in the xray there could have been calcium crystals. These tiny crystals are the early stages of what is commonly referred to as kidney stones. They are difficult to detect but can become embedded in the kidneys and especially in the male penis causing swelling and discomfort. The uretha of the male is longer and smaller than that of the female therefore making it more difficult to pass the crystals. I feel that the over supplementing of calcium and the gliders inability to handle the excess is the underlying cause for most cases of gliders with prolapsed penises.
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70070
12/16/05 12:21 AM
12/16/05 12:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
S
SarahW Offline OP
Glider Lover
SarahW  Offline OP
Glider Lover
S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
Sad news today - the necrotic region grew quite a bit overnight, from a dot at the end to about 1/2cm long on one fork. The vet doesn't want to wait until Monday in case it gets even worse over the weekend. I am bringing Joey in for amputation surgery tomorrow. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> The vet will amputate one or both of the forks to prevent the spread of the necrotic tissue. He is going to leave a little bit of the fork/s near the base so that the urethra (which empties out where the forks split) will not be affected. He wants this done now so the necrosis doesn't spread to the body of the penis. Since Joey is neutered, it's not like he'll be using the forks for reproduction, but I had hoped this would be unneccessary... I am kind of relieved now that I know something is happening one way or another, but I wish it could have gone differently. Joey has an 8:30am appt tomorrow, please wish him luck and a speedy recovery. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/needhug.gif" alt="" />

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70071
12/16/05 06:44 AM
12/16/05 06:44 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidrz5  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Sending wishes your way for a speedy recovery for Joey.


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70072
12/16/05 01:01 PM
12/16/05 01:01 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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A



If it comes down to it; be careful who does the amputation otherwise she may not be able to urinate b/c the hole is too small. Last January my male had to have his entire penis amutated and be neutered. He wasn't supposed to live; he is still alive thank goodness. If you are in the Virginia area I can can give you the name of the surgeon. I trust him completely. I'll keep all of you guys in my thoughts!

Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70073
12/16/05 07:43 PM
12/16/05 07:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
Glider Slave
Charlie H  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Sorry it has come to this. Don't beat yourself up. You have done everything you possiblly could. Keeping my fingers crossed for Joey. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: Prolapsed penis - scary day - advice PLEASE!!! [Re: ] #70074
12/16/05 09:34 PM
12/16/05 09:34 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidrz5  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
How is Joey doing after his surgery?


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Joey's Surgery [Re: ] #70075
12/17/05 02:08 PM
12/17/05 02:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
S
SarahW Offline OP
Glider Lover
SarahW  Offline OP
Glider Lover
S

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 542
Norman, OK
Joey had his surgery yesterday and things seem to be going well. The vet amputated almost all of both forks. Joey was already neutered, so the amputation just means he loses his forks and not the ability to reproduce. The vet was very careful. He left the base intact and wouldn't release Joey until he saw him pee. The urethra, which carries urine, empties out of the base where the forks split, so since that is intact, it shouldn't be a problem for Joey to urinate. The vet just wanted to make sure there was no swelling that would cause the urethra to be closed. Last night I watched Joey pee and it didn't cause him pain at all. There are no stitches because the vet used a cauterizer which prevents bleeding and seals and sterilizes the wound instantly.

Joey is doing really well, I think. He is sleepy because of the pain meds but otherwise ok. He is getting a lot of mealies and yogurt drops and other treats. Joey is on .02mL Torb every 8-12 hours as needed (I think it is a strong mix and the vet says no more than 3 times a day), .05 mL amoxi-drops (amoxicillin) twice a day, and .1mL Metacam once a day for swelling.

The only thing that surprised me was that the vet wants to forego the e-collar if we can avoid it. He said the scabs from the first e-collar look ok but should heal faster without an e-collar on. He observed Joey for two hours after he woke up from the surgery and said Joey paid no attention to his penis even before he gave him the meds. He said that Joey woke up, retracted his penis right away, and ran under some paper towels and started to groom his back and tail. I watched him all afternoon and evening (until about 3am) and Joey never once went for himself at all! Even when he peed, he was fine. I will have him with me all the time for the next few days to monitor him, but the vet says he thinks that if Joey was going to go after himself, it would have happened before he got the meds in him, when the pain was worst. Obviously, any change and the collar goes right back on... last time, the only reason we put it back on was so that he wouldn't lick off the KY and let himself dry out.

So---and I say this very cautiously---perhaps we are not entirely out of the woods yet, but it seems like things might be turning out ok. Thanks so much to everyone for their kinds words and prayers!

And I am especially grateful to Charlie, Mary, and Angie who have been such angels to me these last few weeks... it was only two days ago that I found out each had suffered recent losses of their own... I can't believe that they would be so incredibly wonderful to me despite sadness in their own lives. A sick glider is nothing compared to the loss of a family member or a glider you have loved for eight years. These are wonderful, beautiful people to share their knowledge and experiences with others even in sad times. THANK YOU!!!

Re: Joey's Surgery [Re: ] #70076
12/17/05 02:26 PM
12/17/05 02:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,382
Kentucky
B
Badgersmommy Offline
Glider Slave
Badgersmommy  Offline
Glider Slave
B

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,382
Kentucky
So happy to hear this!! Prayers sent and HUGS.


Glider Kids - Badger and Bonnie, Pepsi and Grace, Victoria.. ahem..I mean ummm..Victor! and Isabella <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Re: Joey's Surgery [Re: ] #70077
12/17/05 04:02 PM
12/17/05 04:02 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
KattyM  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
Sarah, what an inspiration you are to all who are owned by gliders. Your strength and courage throughout this whole ordeal, compounded with additional stressors--all a test, you know? (and you passed!)--is truly remarkable. I pray for little Joey's continued recovery and health, and for your continued peace of mind. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
2010: BJ (M)
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