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1st post is a very sad one... Please help.
by 603gliderfolks. 12/07/19 10:52 AM
Diet questions from a newbie
by 603gliderfolks. 12/07/19 10:51 AM
Tika's poop test...
by Feather. 12/06/19 05:51 PM
Wild baby
by Feather. 12/04/19 05:53 PM
glider colony question.
by Feather. 12/03/19 06:38 PM
Wake up times and feeding habits....
by CKC44. 12/03/19 01:13 AM
We've Got A Birthday
by Claralice. 12/03/19 12:29 AM
Glider threw up after having turkey!
by Ladymagyver. 11/30/19 08:34 AM
Gus Update
by Feather. 11/28/19 06:58 PM
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by Feather. 11/28/19 06:56 PM
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Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46694
05/23/05 08:31 AM
05/23/05 08:31 AM

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I'm soooo glad someone stuck up for us cat food feeders - I'm one of the few, but I shall come out of the closet again and say it - i feed cat food!!! And it (in my opinion) is good, I've known gliders to be fed cat food for over 10 years and die at 16 years - surely if a diet was that bad ... anyway.

I think, well done Flyingelvis - I'm certainly interested in this report, I find that people believe what they want to believe, it doesn't matter if it is scientifically proven or not, just because someone somewhere said it was bad that stays with them and no amount of evidence will sway them. Thank you for bringing this to our attention I'm really looking forward to reading it!!

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ozzi] #46695
05/23/05 09:56 AM
05/23/05 09:56 AM

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WOW! What a thread to start over the weekend! Amazing! PM sent! I can't wait to read the report!!!!!

Marla, do not get discouraged...this is awesome info! Never pass up a chance to IMPROVE your diet with a bit of education! I am STOKED that so much new info is popping up.... because after 2 years of trying it, I quite using BML and am looking into new infomation... now THAT'S a whole other thread.... I can't wait to get a copy of this!

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46696
05/23/05 11:29 AM
05/23/05 11:29 AM

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Marla,
I would also like to thank you for the info that you brought to the board. I am disappointed to see that some of the scientists that could help us so much have felt unwelcome at this site.
I have just requested the article today and haven't had a chance to look at it so if some of my questions are premature please forgive me.
I am wondering if these things she suggests feeding are available for us to purchase. I know where I can get the acacia gum and purchase many things online so am willing to do things that way but where in the world can I find things like the aphids for manna? and how do I collect the manna to feed? Do I feed the aphids or something they produce?

Also if it is possible I would like to get any info she has in regards to the High protein supplement made by Wombaroo.
I am really looking forward to reading her info when I get home today.

I also want to say thanks to those who managed to work out their differences at least well enough to keep this thread open. I enjoy learning more about what to feed my gliders as I want to give them the best I can. I know that is the goal of everyone here and that we all must work within our limitations. I think that we do a pretty good job of helping each other out and hope that we can learn to be welcoming to everyone (which we do pretty good) so that all, including the scientists, can feel welcome on this site.

I want to say that I would welcome Dr. Delany and any of the others who have attempted to share with us. I view it as a privilege that they would be willing to share their hard work with us with out any return on their effort and think it would behoove us to at least be thankful and not argumentative or defensive when they take the time to do so.

So Marla thanks to you and pass on a thanks to Dr. Delany for us as well if you can.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46697
05/23/05 12:03 PM
05/23/05 12:03 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Do I feed the aphids or something they produce?

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I'd imagine she most likely means you feed the entire segment of the hibiscus stalk containing the aphid colony. Such sap-sucking insects extract the fluids from the xylem/phloem vessels of the plant and a biproduct (which is also called "honeydew") produced by the aphids (excreted at the rear ends of these diminutive insects) is similar in composition to the fluids which gliders in the wild obtain from consuming native sap-sucking insects.

Infact, other organisms relish such aphid biproducts, including ants for instance. I once owned a colony of honey pot ants and they were sustained primarily on aphid colonies which they would tend like cattle (and even defend violently) and simply stroke the aphids to induce them to excrete the fluids; the ants would then consume and store the excretions in their crop, bringing it all back to the ant nest and colony.

Several ant species do this actually.

Ants tending their aphid colonies

Mikey <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/dance.gif" alt="" />

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46698
05/23/05 12:15 PM
05/23/05 12:15 PM

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Cool! I didn't know ants would "herd" aphids. You come out with some of the neatest info Mikey!
Thanks

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46699
05/23/05 05:33 PM
05/23/05 05:33 PM

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Mikey's right-on! The aphids create the manna and leave it behind on the stems. Dr. J-D said to put whole stalks into their cage and watch them forrage on them! She also said they would lick and forrage from the hybiscus flowers, getting nectar and pollen, and that eucalyptus flowers were even more enjoyed by gliders! I asked if the species of eualyptus mattered, she said no. Florists often have euc. stems w/buds/flowers as bouquet components, and if you want to grow your own many areas have euc. growing wild, or you can do what I did & order from this nursery in VA: http://www.australiaplants.com Ebay also has seeds for sale.

As far as getting aphids, well, they're all over the NW (right outside my house in the back yard actually) so it will be easy for me to place my hybiscus plant (bought it yesterday, beautiful!) out there and let them get into it. I don't know how they're distributed throughout the US, so if you don't have them wild (wild aphids! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />) where you are you can give them stems with gum arabic/nectar mix rubbed on them and they would probably love it.

I asked if I should be concerned about the wild bugs in these plants I'm going to give my guys, and she said they'll love them, and they even eat SPIDERS (arghhh!) in the wild and will be able to handle it. No Black Widows or Brown Recluses, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> but other spiders are okay. She also said we could attract moths and catch them, and feed them in the tent, and they are great at it.

As far as bee pollen granuals and gum arabic, I ordered both from this site: http://www.kalyx.com . They're in Iowa, and I got both for less than $20/pound.

As far as "high-protein baby cereal", [high] protein is when there's 5g of prot. or more per 30g serving. The USDA does guide american baby food manufacturers to have less (they average 2g/28g serving) b/c we often make our cereal w/ cow's milk, and in other ways american babies can easily be given too much protein.

I did find an organic baby food company, Earth's Best, that has a multi-grain baby cereal w ith 4g/28g serving, (its available at ShopRite, toys R Us and Babies R Us, and online from http://www.shopnatural.com, $2.32 for an 8oz box) and if you compare the Queensland Parks & Wildlife Service Glider diet to Dr. J-D's, you see she added the egg (w/ Ca to compensate for Ca:P). This provides more prot., as does bee pollen, which has more prot. per g than any other food. They also get protein from the bugs they eat.

I also agree with Charlie, and Dr.J-D said she based her updated recommendations on 3 things:

1. The diets used by zoos & wildlife rescues in Australia
2. Her extensive observations of wild gliders, where she also tasted everything she saw them eating!
3. A recent 1 year study, soon to be published, conducted in Queensland, where they fed groups of gliders each of the most used diets that are floating around, and compared body mass, fat %, bloodwork, bone density, fur quality, energy level, illness frequency and other factors to determine the effect of each one. I am as anxious to read this study as y'all are, and as soon as it's available I'll get it out to you.

Acceptable fruits are listed on the Queensland Gov website. And to clarify, she didn't say never feed gliders fruit, she said it should be a treat (like candy) and covered w/bee pollen if possible.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46700
05/23/05 05:38 PM
05/23/05 05:38 PM

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PM sent.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46701
05/23/05 05:43 PM
05/23/05 05:43 PM

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OMG! Did she say when this study would be published? I'm just going to be slowly dying here until I get to read it!

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46702
05/23/05 06:03 PM
05/23/05 06:03 PM

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IM REALLY CURIOUS ABOUT THIS diet CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SEND IT TO ME.
[]THISSTAINDSOUL@AOL.COM[/] <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46703
05/23/05 06:34 PM
05/23/05 06:34 PM

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If you PM FlyingElvis with your e-mail address she will send you an attachment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46704
05/23/05 06:38 PM
05/23/05 06:38 PM

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She said in the Fall. She was one of the reviewers on it though, and her recommendations take the results into account. I can't wait to read it too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46705
05/23/05 07:43 PM
05/23/05 07:43 PM

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Marla: Lots of good stuff here, and I see there have been many excellent comments!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I want to make it clear that it was never my intention to hurt anyone, and I still don't mean to. It is hard to write in my actual friendly "tone" of voice, especially if we disagree.

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I don't think it is ever anyone's true intention to hurt someone on here. I believe, that sometimes, when we are so passionate about our beliefs, etc. that we (any of us) may get a little carried away on occasion. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I know that I was (and still am!) very interested in this diet thread. I find it extremely fascinating!

You are also quite right -- it is sometimes very hard to communicate in a friendly tone of voice when there is a disagreement . . . and that's why I became so concerned. I was afraid something would happen here, and we would lose this thread entirely (I remember back when Mikey discussed diet). Just like USMom, I was getting a little uncomfortable.

I firmly believe that we ALL want what is best for these little loves of ours, and even if the information that we are presented with is contradictory to our knowledge and/or experience (or "hard to take" for whatever reason), we should still "hear it out" . . . We all have to maintain an open mind to obtain what could be very valuable information. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I say could because until you sent me Dr. J-D's file, I had no information on her diet studies at all. Only since this thread materialized was I aware that she has had several previous diet studies, and as some of the members in this thread have stated, I, too, wonder how this new research differs from her previous work.

Now, even if this new information appears to be "impossible", we still need to learn more. Leyna is absolutely right, and you also agreed that "Dr. J-D's diet IS an OPTIMAL diet." I think Leyna may have felt a little discouraged, because I know that I was . . . when I read the ingredients for this diet. I thought to myself, WHERE am I going to get this stuff!!! I believe her comments might have indicated that level of frustration.

For instance, I know that when I first brought my SugarBear (Sugi) home, I wanted the absolute best for him, and I visited the australiaplants.com website. I had read A LOT about their various products, but because I had NO CLUE that there are over "288 different species of eucalyptus" I was AFRAID to purchase anything -- why? Because I don't know enough about glider diet . . . and I feared that I might purchase the wrong thing, and thereby hurt my little pet.

Though, I, for one, am entirely familiar with the scientific method, theories, hypotheses, proofs, etc., I FREELY ADMIT that I don't know "jack squat" about aphids, manna, eucalyptus, etc, but Dr. D-J is just our person!! I say that we, as a glider community, should welcome -- and be grateful for -- her sharing her expertise with us, if she is willing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I would love to learn more -- so much more!

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I have to say that I'm mystified as to why it's okay, not considered "harsh", "inappropriate" or "judgemental" to attack & dismiss my entire profession?

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Bottom line: it isn't. I can't speak for Leyna, but I would suspect that because scientists don't always "get it right" . . . we, as members of the "general population" will question them (you should have also seen the thread on air purifiers). I tend to follow that old "question everything" philosophy anyway. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Not that scientists always get it right, not at all. Sometimes the data are unclear, sometimes the experimental design is faulty, sometimes there are errors in recording, there are lots of ways that a study can be incorrect, or inconclusive . . .

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Sometimes, we, the general public, have a tendency to take new studies/discoveries, etc. with the proverbial "grain of salt." For instance, one study (choose whichever field you like) indicates THIS . . . and yet, another study contradicts THAT! Which, in turn, brings about another study to reaffirm the previous, or, conversely, brings about a WHOLE NEW STUDY as a result of the efforts of the previous studies . . . and we are seeing SOME of this, evidently, in Dr. J-D's own research. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is NOT a bad thing! This is how any discipline progresses to "the next level."

Though I can not speak for Leyna, my interpretation of her comments was not in the same negative way that you had interpreted them, since I am not a scientist. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Like Leyna, I am a member of the classification "the general population." So, when she made that comment, I was not entirely in disagreement with her; however, that is nothing PERSONAL against you, or your specific profession. I simply believe that is the way that the general population sometimes views the experts (any experts). I believe also that that is what she meant by her expression of "an educated guess."

From your perspective, as a scientist, in retrospect, I can see that, indeed, you would have taken offense to that comment; however, I have to admit that in my experience with physicians even they, themselves, will admit to making "an educated guess" at times. I would not have thought that comment to have necessarily been offensive, since my own good doctor has made that comment on occasion.

Also, Charlie H makes a valid point: Sometimes some experts SHOULD be told to take a "flying leap." [more on that, if you are interested, via PM]. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46706
05/23/05 10:07 PM
05/23/05 10:07 PM

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Thanks for your comments Cyndi! You're so right that having to find this stuff can be hard <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />, and, as I've been doing just that since Saturday, [and I'm the nit who opened up this can of worms (mealies! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)] I've been trying to list those online stores (they should give me commission!) where I found the ingredients for a good $.

See my last post for bee pollen, gum arabic, and baby cereal. Suncoast carries the suplements Dr. J-D said to use (Vionate & Reptical) as well as an insectivore fare equivalent to Reliable Protein's. Crickets & mealies can often be found at pet stores, or there's tons of reptile suppliers online that sell them. I get mine at PetCo. Honey, eggs & fresh fruit will have to be gotten locally <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />.

As far as the plants go, according to both Dr. J-D, and Dr. Stephen Jackson, Melbourne Zoo, all species of the following genera are safe for gliders: Acacia (buying the powdered gum is way easier though) Banksia, Callistemon, Corymbia, Eucalyptus, and Melaleuca. Many of these are available in US garden stores, b/c they're popular shrubs and landscape plants, and also australiaplants.com carries all of them <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" />.

What matters is where you live (your USDA Zone: http://www.usna.usda.gov/Hardzone/ushzmap.html?). The # code (ex: I'm in Zone 8) is listed in the description of each species on the australiaplants website. This tells you what species will survive best if you choose to grow them planted outdoors (and with the size of most Eucalyptus...). They also list those plants that do well in "containers", i.e. on patios or indoors.

You may find many options for your region, and you can then choose based on size of plant at maturity, color of flowers, or honey/gum production. They all have resin/gum to some degree, but the ones listed for this use on the site have been cultivated for that purpose. It does take a bit of work to choose the right plant species for your area, (also b/c they're all so pretty! See the picture of Callistemon violaceus attached) but you can do it!

You can really tailor it to your needs, for example I ordered Callistemon violaceus, Corymbia citriodora, Eucalyptus pulverulenta "Baby Blue", Eucalyptus lansdowneana, and Melaeluca alternifolia, because I:
1)live in Seattle
2)want smaller trees
3)chose a few different colors of flowers.

Baby Blue eucalyptus is listed as being the most popular and easy to grow, so that might be a good choice for a novice gardiner. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

They sell most species in seed, and some in 5" pots, which is what I ordered b/c I am good with plants but never have much luck with seeds... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Attached Files
Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46707
05/23/05 10:14 PM
05/23/05 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
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St. Johns, Florida
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I really must stress the fact here that if you get any plants from nurseries to PLEASE wait 3-5 months AFTER repotting to make sure all pesticides that may have been used are gone. Also, I would have to recommend NOT getting any flowers from a florist as they use many chemicals and dyes,and the flowers are also sprayed with pesticides before they get to the florist (in most cases).

Just wanted to add this warning to those who are considering this, as I went crazy and have several of the plants in my yard growing myself!


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46708
05/23/05 11:13 PM
05/23/05 11:13 PM

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Really great point Peggy! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> The australiaplants nursery has very clear info on their pesticide use: they don't use them. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> They use Dawn dish detergent, (which they'll wash off before they send it if you tell them it's for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />!) and a soil spray, (required by law, on all plants shipped to only those states that req. Japanese Bettle preventative measures) which presents minimal foliage risk.

Many of the same pesticides used on florist flowers are used on fruit & veg, and the reality is "organic" ratings are about process: it means they curently don't add toxic chemicals to their crops, but much US soil already has these toxins in them, so "organic" certification, or growing it yourself even, doesn't guarantee there will be no pesticides on the produce. In 2002, consumer reports found that 23% of "organic" produce tested had pesticide residues!

There are also bacteria (like E. coli) and fungi to worry about, they're naturally occuring but can be deadly. WASHING is vital, not just for gliders but for us too! Food washes (like Fit) have been shown to be only as effective as WATER. See this University of Maine study: http://www.umext.maine.edu/onlinepubs/htmpubs/4336.htm .

Basically, we can remove most harm just by thoroughly washing fruit, veg & plant material(wash buds, not flowers, b/c this will remove pollen & nectar). The VAST majority of pesticides in use today are surface residues, not systemic (going throughout the plant/fruit/veg) per the FDA, and so it's the outside we have to worry about.

It's so sad that even our wonderful fresh food can be dangerous... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> but we can mitigate the effects with some elbow grease!

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46709
05/23/05 11:25 PM
05/23/05 11:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2000
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Port Aransas, TX
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Maria
Mike at Australia Plants Nursery is a good friend & if you searched his site you will find a bit of <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> info that myself as well as a few others have posted.
When I contacted Mike several years ago, he had no idea what a <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> was - thought it was a bird (lol)
His Aussie plants are quite safe - be sure to tell him they are for your <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" />'s tho - so he knows!

As Peggy stated do not offer just any nursery plants - they have to sit for at least 3-6 months to be safe!


:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
http://www.marsupialsociety.org.au/
Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: Devil_Bunny_Girl] #46710
05/24/05 06:57 AM
05/24/05 06:57 AM

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They have to site to be safe? I guess I'm confused on how the actual diet works.. when it comes to bugs and plants and pollen and gum I am a complete wreck and I hate to do anything to hurt my gliders.

I let mine catch moths and crickets in tents... my vet also loves this new diet and I found the things I need to make it and want to try it with my babies but the plants and stuff to add really scare me LOL

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46711
05/24/05 09:20 AM
05/24/05 09:20 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
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80 acres of paradise in KS
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TMarie, what they mean is plant that come from nurseries need to be allowed to grow another 3-6 months to loose any toxicity they MIGHT contain. This does make it a bit inconvient but could very well be worth the time it takes


620-704-9109
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46712
05/24/05 09:23 AM
05/24/05 09:23 AM

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i undersand the 3-6 months.. it's just putting all aspects of it together I am working on.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46713
05/24/05 09:43 AM
05/24/05 09:43 AM

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It's a real shame. Marla has brought this diet to our attention and now she feels alienated and unwelcome. How can we learn anything new that might help our gliders if people are too scared to post? It was already mentioned earlier about people avoiding posting about cat food because of it, and this is another example. It doesn't hurt to keep an open mind. It's a piece of information presented by Marla which I for one am very grateful for!!

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ozzi] #46714
05/24/05 10:04 AM
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Um... I just got done reading the whole thing and as far as I can tell you do not HAVE to follow the plant diet. The first diet she has listed is the ORIGINAL leadbeaters mix.... this is what I am going to give a shot to.

After reading this, WOW, this diet makes SO much more sense to me than all the fruits and veggies and baby food we currently feed them. It just makes SO much more sense to me that they would be mostly sap/insect eaters....

Marla, THANK YOU SO MUCH for this article. It definatly helps me out a lot to alter my kids diet.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46715
05/24/05 10:14 AM
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So basically it's the mix, insectivore and a TINY portion of fruits as a treat... i'm wondering if veggies are still allowed or if i shoudl cut those out... maybe i'll have to ask my vet when she's back from vacation

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46716
05/24/05 05:31 PM
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Marla: Thank you so much for:

1. the pretty Callistemon violaceus! So, this is what the kids are craving -- yum! Sometimes my gliders eat their BML and sometimes they don't; so, that's why I've been thinking of changing their diet, and Dr. J-D's diet looks very interesting!

2. all the links on where to obtain the goodies mentioned in Dr. J-D's diet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I get most of my supplies from Suncoast and have the items you've mentioned already on hand: the only thing is, my kids don't like Zookeeper's Secret. *sighs* I agree, you should get a HUGE commission from these various vendors <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

3. the hardiness map. Looks like we are in between zones 5b and 6a, and this will take some further research. It's been some time since I've raised plants, but I've always loved seeing things grow. If I can get the right plants for my zone, this will be great fun!

4. all of your assistance, despite a "rough ride" on the diet issue.

Now, I have to do a Dogpile search to see what in the heck an APHID is, lol...


Pockets, Peggy, and Dancing: You raise some interesting issues, too. I'm wondering, since I do live near a large farm (with over 200 head of cattle and God knows what else), if I DID start to grow my own plants, which would have to be outside... what if I end up with the bugs from down the road, which may be tainted with heaven knows what insecticide/pesticides? Looks like if I scrub one of those pretty flowers in the attachment, I'd destroy it...

*excited but scared at the same time*

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46717
05/24/05 06:17 PM
05/24/05 06:17 PM

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Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46718
05/24/05 07:40 PM
05/24/05 07:40 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline
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Wallis Texas
While I find this diet interesting I do not feel that it is at all practical for the average glider owner. And for those who care for multiple gliders it would be a nightmare. We usually average around 70 gliders in our rescue operation. In order to feed this diet I would have to have about a one acre greenhouse and a full time gardener. Not to mention an unlimited bank account. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46719
05/24/05 07:43 PM
05/24/05 07:43 PM

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Thanks Cyndi! You're so welcome! I figured since I started this, and was finding it all for myself, it might be helpful for others. See aphid attached!

I know what you mean about ZKS, my little guys didn't like it either <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Dr.J-D suggested adding fruit juice (no added sugar, I use fresh from fruit since I have a juicer, but store juices that are just juice are available) until they got used to it. They're coming around,there's a little more gone every day <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also, she pointed out that b/c I gave them a bunch of "candy" (i.e. fruits & sweet veg like carrots) they didn't have to eat their staple. Because they're like kids (really, they ARE my "kids" b/c I don't have human babies) they'll eat the treats before they eat the healthy stuff. Since I put all their food in at the same time, it's akin to putting broccoli and ice cream on the table in front of a 3 year-old child and leaving them to eat as they please. Why am I always surprized & disappointed that the "broccoli" is still there <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />? And just like with kids it's up to us parents to teach them good eating habits. My brother sat at the dinner table many times, long after I'd finished my veggies, but now he's very healthy and makes sure to eat his greens! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

What's hard is the transition I'm having them make. Elvis has eaten 1 way his whole life with me, and now I've gone & changed it on him. I have to say though, he loves the addition of flowers! He goes nuts for them! I brought hybiscus and honeysuckle from the greenhouse (pesticide free) at the univesity, and he licked them, and ate pollen and anthers, it was wild. Even Presley liked it, though she's not as demonstrative with her feelings as Elvis ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />) is!

AS far as letting the plants sit, the australian plants I ordered are in 5" pots. It will be a very long time before they're in bloom, the shortest one is a year, so waiting the 3-6 mo "quarantine" period isn't an issue for them. But more mature plants can be bought at other nurseries, and those should be given time.

As far as veggies go, the material differences between certain fruits and certain veggies are very small, i.e. veg with little fiber and high fructose is a lot like fruit from a digestive standpoint. GC is already aware that high fiber veg (like broccoli and beans) are difficult for <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/littleglider.gif" alt="" /> to digest, but there's more fiber in oranges, apples and raspberries than in brussels sprouts and artichokes! Also, things we think of as "veg" are sometimes the opposite. For example, most people are aware that tomatoes are fruit, but corn kernals are fruits too, as are sunflower seeds, cucumbers and avocados.

This confusion all stems from the use of the words "fruit" and "vegetable". To a botanist, a fruit is ONLY the reproductive output of the female plant =seeds surrounded by the ovule tissue. A "vegetable" is any other part of the plant that is eaten. But this means many different fiber/fat/sugar contents are possible in a fruit or veggie. From a nutritional/grocery store standoint, we often use the word fruit to mean high fructose/plant sugar items with low fiber, i.e. the stuff kids like. Don't be discouraged, what's being recommended is giving them low fiber produce as treats <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

Attached Files
397632-Aphid.JPG (36 downloads)
Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46720
05/25/05 02:33 AM
05/25/05 02:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
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sugarlope Offline
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in my happy place
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Also, she pointed out that b/c I gave them a bunch of "candy" (i.e. fruits & sweet veg like carrots) they didn't have to eat their staple. Because they're like kids (really, they ARE my "kids" b/c I don't have human babies) they'll eat the treats before they eat the healthy stuff. Since I put all their food in at the same time, it's akin to putting broccoli and ice cream on the table in front of a 3 year-old child and leaving them to eat as they please.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I think that is interesting, for me and my kids, it's exactly the opposite. They never liked BML, so I started feeding them Leadbeater's--and they will actually ignore all of their fruits and vegetables until the LB and protein is gone (and then they usually bark to let me know they ate all of their LB and when I go in to check on them, and don't give them anymore, they pout). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
One question I would have for Dr. J-D, though, what does she think of using Wombaroo HPS in place of the high protein baby cereal? Just curious as to her thoughts on that.
~Gretchen

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46721
05/25/05 06:10 AM
05/25/05 06:10 AM

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That's what I've been wondering as well sugarlope. I was going to see how much of that I would use if i use it to replace the cereal. I don't think this diet will be hard to use at all like others are saying. it never says you HAVE to give flowers and all these plants and grow a greenhouse. it just says to give a small portion or treat foods which can be fruits, bee pollen, insects, lorikeet nectar, gum, and some flowers.

i'm also wondering tho how MUCH she considers a treat food and if they should be given every night or only a few times a week.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46722
05/25/05 07:35 AM
05/25/05 07:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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St. Johns, Florida
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
I was going to see how much of that I would use if i use it to replace the cereal.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

I can answer this one as this is the diet I feed to my kids now and they love it.
It states right on the box that the HPW came in:

Other Uses: High Protein Supplement can be substituted for the High Protein Cereal used in the many food recipes for animals and birds. You only need to use HALF THE QUANTITY of High Protein Supplement because of its superior protein quality and higher concentration.


I hope this helps <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Dr. Johnson-Delany : Glider Diet Shocker! [Re: ] #46723
05/25/05 08:10 AM
05/25/05 08:10 AM
Joined: Jan 2000
Posts: 2,093
Port Aransas, TX
Pockets Offline
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Posts: 2,093
Port Aransas, TX
Peggy I would be surprised if Cathy Johnson-Delaney even knew that Wombaroo HPS even existed (lol)
Believe if she did - she would of commented about using it!


:grey: We will be known forever by the tracks we leave :grey:
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