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Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39411
03/15/05 01:01 PM
03/15/05 01:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,782
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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Aw Jen, we are all there with you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39412
03/15/05 04:59 PM
03/15/05 04:59 PM

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My husband and I took Deirdre's body to the vet this morning for a postmortem. We will call the vet at 11am CST tomorrow and he will let us know if any further testing is necessary, other than what we already know. I mean, why spend $200+ on a necropsy or a histology, only to find that what we already knew had been confirmed?

Thank you for being there for us. It is greatly appreciated.


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39413
03/16/05 01:21 PM
03/16/05 01:21 PM

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Marvin just called the vet and the vet said he had sent Deirdre's body to a lab in California for a toxicology report. We will not know of the results from the test for another week or so.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39414
03/16/05 01:46 PM
03/16/05 01:46 PM

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Well, it certainly seems like they are REALLY trying to get to the bottom of your babies condition. Hopefully, they will divulge some important facts from their examination.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39415
03/17/05 06:21 AM
03/17/05 06:21 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,899
Jacksonville, FL
Jennifer, I am so sorry to hear your little girl didn't make it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" /> She'll wait for you at the bridge, but I know you know that. Let us know what the vet says. Again, I'm so sorry! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Xfilefan; 03/17/05 06:31 AM.

Jen/Colin :bb: Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed :wfb: Sinbad, :wfb: Gabby, :grey: Baby, and :grey: Alley
Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39416
03/21/05 06:48 AM
03/21/05 06:48 AM

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Jennifer, I am very sorry for the loss of your little girl. I hope you get some answers from the toxicology report.

I just wanted to expand a little bit on the Vitamin D3 overdose possibility. Vitamin D3 overdoses can cause calcification of the kidneys and renal failure. Vitamin D3 is a "fat solubale" vitamin, meaning it is stored for a long time in body fat, therefore it can take quite awhile, years even, before any symptoms appear, and by then it can be too late.

I feed my guys gut loaded mealworms and superworms and a variety of fresh fruits and vegetables. I dust the feeder bugs with Rep Cal without D3 (you can buy it with or without D3) twice weekly. I dust with Vionate once a week.

Now I am not saying BML or any of the other premade diets are bad, by any means. I am certainly not a glider expert, so please keep this in mind, but I do have many years experience with reptiles and have done a lot of research into calcium supplementation. D3 overdosing is a real possibility in some of these cases. I would just recommend all those interested in this topic do do some research on calcium absorbtion in mammals and also vitamin D3 overdoses.

Again Jennifer, I am really sorry about your little sweetie. I almost didn't post because I do not want to ruffle any feathers, being new here. If I did not feel so strongly about this I would not have posted. I really wish more research, true scientific research, would be conducted on the nutritional needs of these animals.

Let us know what the test results are, and best of luck.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39417
03/21/05 11:18 AM
03/21/05 11:18 AM

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If people around here were insulted by feather ruffling we would all still be feeding cat food and birdseed to our gliders. I discussed this issue with Diedres vet and he did not think that the amount of vitamins in the bml mix, spread out over thirty days, would be enough to cause any harm. Yet, as you said. it would be nice if a lot more research were being done. All a matter of the mighty dollar I suppose. Thanks for your post.
And thanks to everyone else for your contributions of wisdom and sympathy as well.
I will be talking to the vet on Wednesday about the results of the toxicology report and will be sure to post what was found.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39418
03/21/05 10:41 PM
03/21/05 10:41 PM

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I am so sorry for your loss! You are in my prayers!

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39419
03/22/05 06:49 AM
03/22/05 06:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I am so sorry Jennifer about the loss of your little friend.

I too had to have one of my own gliders put to sleep about a month or so ago. I had raised him as a baby and he was over five years oop. Such a healthy looking guy as well. He had never been ill. This little guy...started drinking excessive amounts of water and still had a good appetite. However his urine was a deep yellow...sort of amber looking.
Then within four or five days...he began to swell in his abdomen. I took him to the vet and I had an ultra sound done on him. Unfortunatly...his gall bladder was impacted as well as the ducts going to the liver and the liver was inflamed as well. The vet said there was no hope...and rather than have him suffer in pain...I asked the vet to put him to sleep while he was sedated. I have had a necropsy done...and they have never called me with the results. I will call tomorrow and see if there is anything new with it.

Sending hugs your way. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39420
03/23/05 08:35 AM
03/23/05 08:35 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />

The AST by the way is:aspartate aminotransferase - (taken from WebMD Health, website)


<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Awwwww Jennifer I am so sorry. Please know she is waiting for you at the rainbow bridge.

Someone had mentioned aspartate as being part of the AST... would that have anything to do with aspartame found in some yogurts?

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39421
03/23/05 09:31 AM
03/23/05 09:31 AM

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Iam sad to hear of your lost.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39422
03/23/05 09:40 AM
03/23/05 09:40 AM

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TMarie, that is a darned good question. Interesting.

Marvin will call the vet sometime today and find out what was found.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39423
03/23/05 11:55 AM
03/23/05 11:55 AM

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Jennifer,

Please keep us updated. As I was reading this that kinda jumped out at me but I may be way off base.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39424
03/23/05 04:54 PM
03/23/05 04:54 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis
Sheila  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Jennifer, I am so sorry for your loss. If there is anything I can do for you let me know.


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39425
03/23/05 05:50 PM
03/23/05 05:50 PM

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im so sorry jennifer, ***HUGS***

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39426
03/23/05 06:21 PM
03/23/05 06:21 PM

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Thank you very much for keeping us in your thoughts and for your condolences. They are greatly appreciated.

Marvin called the vet earlier and the assistant told him that the vet was doing a procedure on some other animal. The assistant said the report had come in, but the vet had not yet seen it. Marvin will call him again tomorrow. Having to wait another day is very frustrating.


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39427
03/24/05 02:20 AM
03/24/05 02:20 AM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Someone had mentioned aspartate as being part of the AST... would that have anything to do with aspartame found in some yogurts?

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

Short answer - No, not really. For those really bored, see below:

AST (SGOT) is an enzyme found in muscles, heart, liver, kidneys and some blood cells. It is interesting to follow because its level rises during cellular death of the involved tissues. A lab can divide AST into different forms and tell whether it is of liver, heart, or muscle origin.

Its function is in conversion of one amino acid (amino acids are the building blocks of proteins) to another one or other product, and is used in the digestion of amino acids being diverted into the digestion pathway for fats or carbohydrates. All of our bodies have and need AST. The higher level can signal problems.

Aspartame is made from two of the amino acids that all of our cells have and need, one of them being Aspartic acid. AST does act on aspartic acid, but also many other amino acids. But an elevated level does not come from feeding yogurt. No worries, mate.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39428
03/24/05 08:45 AM
03/24/05 08:45 AM

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Thanks schlep.very informative and interesting.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39429
03/24/05 09:02 AM
03/24/05 09:02 AM

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Schlep, thank you for putting my mind at ease. Whew! What a relief that is!


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39430
03/24/05 05:07 PM
03/24/05 05:07 PM

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vet does not know!!!

The findings from the tests done on the body of Deirdre came as: there were changes in her liver, focally in the bile duct area. There was some granular golden brown pigment found in the liver and kidney. She was in a non-benign cancerous stage. There was evidence of intravascular cellular cell prolification, perhaps evidence of a Lymphocytic (sp?) Leukemia.

Bloodwork will be looked at again about the leukemia.

We will need to call back again next Tuesday as the vet needs time to really get to the bottom of this death and the cause of it. He is really interested in finding out what those numbers really meant.

The vet sent the report to Charles Louis Davis Foundation for the Advancement of Veterinary and Comparative Pathology, http://www.afip.org/CLDavis/ . The findings of the report will be interpreted and compared with similar cases to that of Deirdre.


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39431
03/30/05 01:59 PM
03/30/05 01:59 PM

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Marvin just got off the phone with Dr. Ruch. Dr. Ruch thinks it is a Lymphopshycoma (sp?) Whether a cancer from a toxicity or just a bad luck type thing he is not sure. Marvin is supposed to call back on Friday.


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39432
04/02/05 06:30 PM
04/02/05 06:30 PM

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Sorry it took us so long to post a pic of Deirdre before she crossed over to the Rainbow Bridge. Notice the color of her nose and feet.

Attached Files
368792-Deirdre.jpg (57 downloads)
Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39433
04/02/05 06:32 PM
04/02/05 06:32 PM

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Another pic of Deirdre.

Attached Files
368794-Deirdre4.jpg (39 downloads)
Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39434
04/03/05 12:16 AM
04/03/05 12:16 AM

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Such a sweet looking little girl! Thanks for posting the pics Jen, have you heard anymore about what type of cancer? When you do, please update us, ok?

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39435
04/03/05 01:07 AM
04/03/05 01:07 AM

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Still waiting for the update from the vet. We are very frustrated and I am sure the vet is, too. We will reply to this post as soon as we hear from him.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39436
04/03/05 12:08 PM
04/03/05 12:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Wow Jen and Marvin, I just read all the updates, and feel so bad for you! I can't imagine how frustrated you must be, but it sounds like you and the vet are doing everything you can to find the cause. This is wonderful research...thank you! Again, I am so sorry for the loss of your little girl <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />.

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39437
04/12/05 12:38 PM
04/12/05 12:38 PM

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The vet talked with the pathologist who did the lab report. The pathologist was not convinced that it was Lymphocytic (sp?) Leukemia or Lymphopshycoma (sp?). All that the pathologist was sure of was Chronic Liver Changes. Causes unknown.

Not the answer we had been hoping for. We knew that when we saw Deirdre turn yellow, that it was liver related.

I really wish we knew what the causes were. Guess we will never know.


Jen

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39438
04/12/05 01:43 PM
04/12/05 01:43 PM

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I hope you keep on top of this, Jen. Lord knows, I want to learn from your babies brave struggle so that it can hopefully be avoided in my babies. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39439
04/12/05 02:31 PM
04/12/05 02:31 PM

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And in everyone else's babies, too.

Re: Jaundiced [Re: ] #39440
04/12/05 03:48 PM
04/12/05 03:48 PM

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Oh, of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know everyone could learn from your babies struggle.

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