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Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville #377179
09/05/07 03:38 PM
09/05/07 03:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Bee Pollen Comparison:
HPW diet & Healesville Sanctuary diet

(Link to the spreadsheet is at the bottom here)

Many people have pondered the amount of Bee Pollen used in the "HPW diet" and many others have claimed it is "too much" as compared to the Healesville Sanctuary diet for sugar gliders. We have just conducted an analysis of the nutritive values of bee pollen in both diets.

The overall conclusion is that while the HPW diet does use more bee pollen than the Healesville Sanctuary diet, the absolute nutritive values are not dissimilar to common fruits and vegetables. In fact, serving for serving, the nutritive values for some vitamins and minerals are actually less than some fruits and vegetables. We have also listed the nutritive values of a single serving of Papaya along the side just to keep things in perspective.

Base Calculations for Pollen in HPW diet to get "Serving Amount":

One pound (0.453 kilograms ) of Australian (Jarrah Tree) Bee Pollen Granules fills 3 cups in volume
3 cups is equal to 48 tablespoons
1 tablespoon = .009 kilograms (9.43 grams)
2 tablespoons = 18.86 grams per batch of HPW
One "batch" of HPW = 5 cups in volume
5 cups = 240 teaspoons
240 teaspoons divided by 1.5 teaspoons per serving = 160 servings
18.86 grams of pollen divided by 160 servings = 117.8 milligrams bee pollen per serving (824.6 mg per week)

Base Calculations for Pollen in Healesville diet to get "Serving Amount":

Based on the 178-page document entitled "Healesville Sanctuary diets" dated August, 2006 by the Healesville Sanctuary, the diet Sheet for Sugar Glider (page 22) calls for: "5 Pollen grains - once per week." At first, "grains" was thought to be the unit of measurement "grains," not the actual granuels. 5 "grains" (as in the unit of measurement) *would* have been the same as 320 milligrams which sounded feasible. But I was told: "No, it's 5 actual granuels of the pollen - not the 'unit of mass' called grains - even though the diet sheet says 'grains'."

5 granules is not significant from a mass standpoint. Assuming the Healesville diet Sheet for Sugar Gliders is correct at 5 granules (granules vary greatly in size), it took approximately 1,200 granules to fill on level tablespoon. 600 granuels were counted "into" a tablespoon's worth of pollen to calculate this and when this amount was compared to what remained on the plate, the remainder looked approximatelly the same as the counted ones. Thus 1,200 was the approximation. That's:
9.43 grams per tablespoon divided by 1,200 granules per tablespoon = 7.85 milligrams per granule.
7.85 mg times 5 (granuels) per week = 39.25 mg per week
39.25 mg divided by 7 days = 5.6 mg per "serving" (this was done to normalize the amounts for comparison only)

Comparison between HPW diet Amounts and Healesville diet Amounts of Pollen:

HPW diet = 117.8 milligrams bee pollen per serving (824.6 mg per week)
Healesville = 5.6 milligrams bee pollen per serving (39.25 mg per week)

This means there are 21x the pollen in a serving of HPW diet over the Healesville diet.

NOTES: If you look at the spreadsheet, it is plain to see that many of the nutritive values in the Healesville 'serving' are in the microgram range - some of the amounts being so trace as to suggest why bother feeding pollen at all? Although the 21x difference with the HPW diet sounds shocking on the surface, one only has to look at the absolute values of protein, carbs, vitamins and minerals to see that there is nothing disturbing in those values.

In fact, if you take a look at the further-most columns on the right, you will see a single serving of Papaya as a comparison. There are some Vitamin A complex values in Papaya but they were not listed to make room for display purposes (Bee pollen has no substantial Vitamin A amounts).

When looking at the chart, be sure to note the difference between mg and mcg (milligrams and micrograms). There are 1,000 micrograms in one milligram. Or, a microgram is one-millionth of a gram... So if you see anything with mcg behind it, realize that it's a relativelly small number compared to a gram or milligram.

http://www.glidercentral.net/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=104795

Cheers, Ed & Gail

Last edited by Lucky_Glider; 09/05/07 04:45 PM.

Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: Lucky_Glider] #377204
09/05/07 03:56 PM
09/05/07 03:56 PM

W
Wantiki2
Unregistered
Wantiki2
Unregistered
W



Ed, has anyone told you lately how very appreciated you are on GC for providing all this fabulous research and information? thanks thanks thanks clap

Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: ] #377239
09/05/07 04:24 PM
09/05/07 04:24 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Thanks, Ed ...

So what are your conclusions?


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: ValkyrieMome] #377255
09/05/07 04:39 PM
09/05/07 04:39 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
thanks Wantiki :-)

ValkyrieMome, our conclusion is that while there is much more pollen in a single serving size of HPW diet, the absolute amount of protein, vitamins and minerals is OK. Just as a 'sanity check' we compared it side-by-side with the Healesville portion and also a single serving of Papaya. The bottom line is there is nothing at all shocking about the absolute nutritive value of one serving of HPW diets' worth of bee pollen, even though it is much more than what's stipulated in the Healesville diet.

In fact, if you look at the numbers, one wonders why it is even necessary to offer bee pollen if your gliders are on the Healesville diet, because the abosolute values of what the glider is getting with 5 "granuels" as stipulated by Healesville is so small as to be of little value...

Cheers, Ed


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: Lucky_Glider] #377497
09/05/07 10:24 PM
09/05/07 10:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Now THAT folks is what I call a LOT of work! Whew~~~ that made me tired just thinking what you guys went through to get those numbers!! roflmao

Gail, Ed, thank you both. Youre right, very very interesting. agree


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter LoveŽ Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: Srlb] #377502
09/05/07 10:31 PM
09/05/07 10:31 PM

W
WannaBeMom
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WannaBeMom
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Good grief...nice job guys!

laugh Thank you for your continued efforts in further helping us understand our gliders needs.

xo

Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: ] #378080
09/06/07 08:45 PM
09/06/07 08:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
thanks you guys. I have a dialog going with Marz here (Ko on the .com site) and she is getting a hold of a paper for us dealing with how much pollen suggies can actually synthesize. Marz' position is that the 5 granuel number is correct although I am having a tough time beleiving it is correct owing to the small amounts of nutrients it offers over a week's time. Anyway, I don't think this is over. I also suggested that maybe the nutritionists at Healesville should look at the numbers and comment. I am hoping to learn something from that. I will share what I learn.

Cheers, Ed & Gail


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: Lucky_Glider] #378215
09/06/07 11:20 PM
09/06/07 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,068
u.s.a.
the gliders angel Offline
Glider Addict
the gliders angel  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,068
u.s.a.
maybe you can find out what the most common fruits and veggies and what they feed on a daily basis there so we can try to do alot of the same

Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: the gliders angel] #378220
09/06/07 11:26 PM
09/06/07 11:26 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Lynchburg, VA
B
blockamon Offline
Glider Lover
blockamon  Offline
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B

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 563
Lynchburg, VA
Ed, the Healsville diet also feeds fresh blossoms, if I'm not mistaken. You'd think that would add a bit of pollen as well (maybe more than the 5 grains). I'm sure they have a reason, however. Pollen does have a lot of Vit. A; maybe they like to use that in lieu of carrots? dunno Gotta keep the eyes healthy...after all, how would you get glasses to fit around those ears? grin

Last edited by blockamon; 09/06/07 11:28 PM.
Re: Bee Pollen Comparison: HPW Diet & Healesville [Re: blockamon] #378760
09/07/07 07:59 PM
09/07/07 07:59 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline OP
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
The gliders angel, there are 5 g of corn in the "latest version" of the diet and a tablespoon of fruit "chopped." In previous versions they published PawPaw (Papaya) and Mangoes as among the fruits they use.

Brian, you can see that under "supplements" they list "Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available" but there is plenty of ambiguity in the amount in the phrase "other blossoms as available."

But we know BEE pollen seems to be highly concentrated pollen. I reckon with fresh blossums they will get more nectar (sugar carbs and some protein) than pollen nutrients.

I have not been able to turn up significant Vit A from my pollen sources but if you have that data (% per gram) that would be great if you could send it to me so I can add that to my source spreadsheet.


Ad Lib:
Water

Daily diet per Glider:
1 Dog Chow / Advance
6 g fruit, chopped (approx 1 Tbsp)
3 ml Nectar mix (includes vitamin supplements)
1 g fly pupae (1/4 tsp)
5 g corn (1/4 thin slice)
2 g sprouted seed
2 mealworms

Supplement:
5 pollen grains - once per week
3 sultanas - 3-4 times per week
2 sunflower seeds - once per week
1 g Pet Health Food (small cube) - once per week
1 almond - once per week
Insects - 3-4 times per week (e.g., moths)
Acacia, eucalypts, other blossoms as available


Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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