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Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ] #150738
09/29/06 07:57 AM
09/29/06 07:57 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline OP
Glider Slave
Charlie H  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
It has long been believed that drinking cranberry juice helps clear up the urinary tract. There could be some small benefit but I doubt it would do much good. It is difficult to find 100% pure cranberry juice and it should be organic if used. When the body ingests any type of acidic food or juice the body automatically goes to work to neutralize it. The body is constantly striving to bring the ph level back to normal.

I know how frustrating trying to combat a recurring problem like this can be. Quiet often in the case of UTIs and other glider illnesses the immediate problem is addressed without attempting to discover what caused the need for treatment.

In the case of the way the glider is housed and fed there does not seem to be any obvious problem. Of course you know how paranoid I am about the type and amount of calcium that is included in a gliders diet. Schlep gave a great explanation about the way the body metabolizes calcium. But when a gliders blood level tests five times too high for calcium in any form you are looking at a potential problem. And if this excess calcium can be broken down into small enough molecules to be transported throughout the body by the blood. Who is to say that once it reaches organs like the liver, heart, and kidneys it will not regroup and form crystals and stones. Plus clog all of these organs plus the vessels, veins, and cells. My theory is just as alkali will build inside cookware excess calcium will build up in certain areas of the body. When it builds up in the kidneys and urinary tract this could lead to infections in the urinary system.

In a lot of situations prescribing Baytril is a way of hoping you will cure a problem. Baytril will combat most bacterial infections. But not all. It is a long time practice to take the 'shotgun approach' when a glider has an unidentified problem. The thinking is that if the glider is prescribed a round of Baytril and Flagyl this will clean the gliders system of most bacterias and parasites. But there is always the possibility that it is not a cure all. This the reason for running a culture. But if the 'shotgun approach' does work it can save a lot of time and money. Also many glider lives have been saved in this manner as you do not have to wait for the results of the culture.
This is getting too long! Sorry I haven't addressed the effects of heavy metals like lead and mercury in fish!
Charlie H


Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: UTI Cautions [Re: Charlie H] #151620
10/01/06 08:35 PM
10/01/06 08:35 PM

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I agree with Charlie H that a shotgun approach is cheaper and usually works. A great place to begin to be sure. He always has a realistic and practical approach. Specific cultures take time and add cost.

My comments began with the notion of recurrent and resistant infection that was not getting fixed. When the cheap and usually effective Baytril course isn't working, then being armed with better info really helps. In those tough cases, there is no substitute for good information such as cultures to make a better decision. My point was that a longer course of an ineffective strategy isn't a good strategy. I wish urinary imaging studies were available for gliders - we are spoiled taking care of people.

I also agree with his point that the body will attempt to rid itself of excess ingested acid, like that found in some fruit drinks. And as the body tries to maintain its normal blood pH in the face of extra acid in the diet, it does so by putting more than the normal amount of acid in the urine. The helpful result is a more acidic urine pH and an environment not conducive to certain germs' growth.

The body also rids itself of other excesses. If extra calcium is eaten, a dramatic slowing of gut absorption occurs to leave much of it in stool unabsorbed. It is difficult in a normal critter to run their blood calcium level much above the normal range by diet alone. The body also has many mechanisms to deal with a calcium level climbing a tiny bit above normal. If something happens that leads to a higher level that is desired, the body does selectively lose it in urine as well. I am not saying that calcium depositions don't happen throughout the body, (in people we see depositions of calcium in coronary artery plaque, breast masses, and other places), but those people rarely have elevated serum calcium levels and dietary excesses of calcium intake as the cause, and NEVER to the levels of 5 times normal.

When we run IV fluids into a patient, we can foul things up in a way that the elegance of the gut would never allow. If we error in calcium levels of IV feedings to an extreme that the gut would not allow, we won't see off the charts calcium levels. We'll lose that Code Blue way before we can get blood drawn. In patients with Parathyroid tumors and enormous PTH levels (a major hormone that regulates calcium balance between gut absorption, blood stream level, bone deposition/resorption and kidney excretion), the calcium levels only achieve 20-30% above normal, not 500%.

I may get in trouble with this one from our friend Charlie H, but I strongly believe it to be true - I personally believe the only credible explanation for a blood calcium level 5 times normal is lab error / collection error. It is terribly difficult to draw from a tiny vessels. Vacuum tubes can draw extracellular fluid into the sample that is no longer blood only. Calcium EDTA and other products are used in some tubes to keep blood from clotting. But that level is very suspicious for lab error. The heart won't beat at those levels, and muscles would rigor tremendously. Just another observation.

Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ] #151788
10/02/06 08:30 AM
10/02/06 08:30 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Charlie H Offline OP
Glider Slave
Charlie H  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,659
Wallis Texas
Of course our sample for the readings of the elevated levels in the blood were done by only one vet. However the results were forwarded to two other very knowledgeable exotic vets in different areas of the country. The vet who took the samples and did the original analysis is very competent and we insisted that he consult these other vets. Of course mistakes could have been made but these were leaders in their field.

I still feel that what we are determining to be UTIs are not always infections. Too often we take a glider and have it tested for a UTI and the test comes back negative. I think we are quiet often dealing with a urinary tract that is partially blocked with crystals that have developed as the result of too high a level of calcium. The gliders are exhibiting the symptoms of an infection when in reality it is a blockage.

Let me ask another question. I have seen it posted many times that when the penis will not retract and the tips turn dark it is thought to be a UTI. Why would a UTI affect a gliders penis?
Charlie H




Rescue & Rehabilation
http://www.angelfire.com/tx/glidertree/
[]glidertree@toast.net[/]
Re: UTI Cautions [Re: ] #151831
10/02/06 11:22 AM
10/02/06 11:22 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
With males.... doesn't the uretha tube that allows the flow of urine come through the penis?

As for the tips of the penis turning black... I thought this was from lack of moisture from be exposure to the outside elements because the penis itself is unable to retract due to swelling of the urethia tube which is inflamed.

Re: UTI Cautions [Re: Judie] #151847
10/02/06 11:56 AM
10/02/06 11:56 AM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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Another possibility is that the infection is not really in the urethra/bladder/ureters/kidneys, but external to those structures. It might be in the cloaca and external to the true urinary tract, which can still be irritating the penis externally instead of internally. Either way it can cause swelling, irritation and pain.

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