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Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416322
05/18/18 10:55 PM
05/18/18 10:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
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United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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3 year old male. Just said he would only neuter if it was a Pom off procedure


Best,
Tynk
Current Research, Studies & Resources
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: KarenE] #1416323
05/19/18 12:33 AM
05/19/18 12:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
indiana
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indiana
Originally Posted By: KarenE
Originally Posted By: Tynk3287
My husband and I, adopted a breeding pair of gliders from a trustworthy glider owner and friend, she just didnít have the time that was needed to dedicate to them with being in and out of the hospital for a family member and work.
Originally Posted By: ynk3287
Until the babies are ready to be separated from their parents. Iím planning to leave them alone and even after that.


I think all of us concentrated on the issue of bonding and completely missed the fact you had a breeding pair of gliders. I did until I read the part in your last post about "babies" or joeys.

IMO, this could be why you are having more problems with bonding. First, they are in a new home, and second they are trying to protect their joeys.

You are going to have to step back and give them space until these joeys are at least weaned, and you are able to handle them. I have no doubt the biting is their way of telling you to keep your distance from the joeys.

Continue to talk to them through the cage as well as offering treats through the bars. This will probably be a very slow process but it will be rewarding in the end.


after thinking about it, I came up with what karen posted.

you have a protective mother that doesn't know you.
you (and me) seem to lack the skills to bond with a pregnant female and unneutered male.
you need to NOT bond with these gliders right now. You should get the male neutered and let the mom finish with her babies. before you get in their face.


John and Charlene
Gizmo :grey: / link :bb: / Sophie :wfb: / Riggs :grey: / scarface :grey: / gus :wfb:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416324
05/19/18 01:02 AM
05/19/18 01:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
indiana
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indiana
Originally Posted By: Tynk3287
3 year old male. Just said he would only neuter if it was a Pom off procedure


as far as I know all our males are neutered pom off. if that means the jewels are missing, then that is how all ours were done.


John and Charlene
Gizmo :grey: / link :bb: / Sophie :wfb: / Riggs :grey: / scarface :grey: / gus :wfb:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416327
05/19/18 07:08 AM
05/19/18 07:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,470
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
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Pom off laser is what my veterinarian does. It is a very quick procedure and I have never had any problems afterwards.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Stevie, Cho, Toothless & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman, Light Fury & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416328
05/19/18 07:49 AM
05/19/18 07:49 AM
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United States
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He just wanted to cut it off and let it heal on its own. Not a good vet in my opinion thatís why when he said he wouldnít I was kinda happy he didnít seem to know about gliders a whole lot


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416332
05/19/18 10:27 AM
05/19/18 10:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,779
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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Be sure he doesn't shave the area. It will make healing easier. Gliders do not like to be shaved. He will lick it raw trying to 'fix' the funny feeling of no fur.


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416340
05/20/18 10:59 AM
05/20/18 10:59 AM
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 1,418
Belleville, IL
Hutch Offline
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Originally Posted By: Tynk3287
He just wanted to cut it off and let it heal on its own.


That pretty much describes the standard procedure as I understand it.


- Hutch

:plat: Arthur :wfb: Gwynevere :bb: Merlin :grey: Morgana

The epic saga begins here!
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416354
05/22/18 10:15 PM
05/22/18 10:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 21
United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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Shaving the area isnít good though. And isnít Pom off not a good thing to do after a male have been breeding. Or have I been reading the blogs all wrong


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416356
05/22/18 11:56 PM
05/22/18 11:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,470
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
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Feather  Offline
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Wisconsin
Former breeding males can have a pom off neuter. The important thing with neutering with pom off it not to shave and not to laser or cut to close to the belly.

I recommend that you discuss this with your veterinarian.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Stevie, Cho, Toothless & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman, Light Fury & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416360
05/24/18 02:16 AM
05/24/18 02:16 AM
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United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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Iíve decided to get rid off this breeding pair. And find it a home where they can just be breeding window pets. I am not usually one to just give up when it gets tough but this has caused me far too much stress and anxiety to the point in which Iíve miscarried.

This is definitely not what I signed on for. I thought we were doing a good thing by rescuing these guys but it seems as if we should have left them with their first owners.


Thank you all for your comments, concerns and knowledge.

These gliders need much more work than I can give them right now.

I may be a bad glider owner to some of you and Iím sorry you think that way but yíall donít know how hard it has been to just take care of this pair specifically the female. She is the worst Iíve ever had.

My previous pair was never this bad.


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416361
05/24/18 07:30 AM
05/24/18 07:30 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,779
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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It's never easy to take in rescues. My experience was with a 12wk oop Joey who was terrified of humans. I didn't mention her because she was so young. It took us 6 months to earn the smallest trust, and another 3 months to bond. She only tolerates us now and she is almost 4yrs old.

There were many times I wanted to re-home her, but I knew she would never change, and going through the rehoming process would make her worse. Our solution to Dot's issues is to keep her mentally stimulated, and she has to stay on a strict feeding schedule. She has food aggression issues and we have to be present while the girls eat every night. Dot has separation issues too from Fiona.

I understand how you feel, and this pair may never warm up to you. It takes a lot of time to teach and unlearn bad habits.

Dot and I still work through who the alpha is. I'm the only one who wins. Sometimes it's a fight. Sometimes I think she tests me to see if I'll give up.

I have no experience with a bonded mated pair. I can only imagine what it's like to work with two. At least they have each other for now to get through being rehomed again. I wouldn't even attempt what you have tried. Kudos to you.

This is what makes each glider unique. Some are social to humans right away. Others need work, and you have to earn a lot of their trust. Others just prefer to be left alone. Fiona bonded within 2 weeks. She was a single at the time. Fiona loves to have 1on 1 time. Dot took 9months and still prefers her cage to hanging out with us.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

Take care of yourself please.

I hope you can have gliders in your future and we will see you here again soon!


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416363
05/24/18 09:49 AM
05/24/18 09:49 AM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 21
United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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Thank you.


Listening to you and a few others. Iíve changed my mind.

I wonít be rehoming these guys again. Iím just not going to try to bond or touch or anything that requires human contact. Obviously they were never bonded but to each other. This really sucks but Iím just going to feed and water them Iíll leave the cage door open at night while we are home during their play time in case they want to come out and explore.


Rehoming then again would just make it absolutely incredibly hard to do anything with them.

As for fixing the male itís not what I want to do but Iíll leave that alone for now and think about that again at a later time.



Will someone help me and coach me in what to do and how to handle this pair?

I really need guidance and knowledge.


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416364
05/24/18 10:50 AM
05/24/18 10:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
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KarenE  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
LittleRock, AR USA
Originally Posted By: Tynk3287
Thank you.


Listening to you and a few others. Iíve changed my mind.

I am glad you have changed your mind, however, I do think you will need to reconsider neutering the male.


I wonít be rehoming these guys again. Iím just not going to try to bond or touch or anything that requires human contact. Obviously they were never bonded but to each other. This really sucks but Iím just going to feed and water them Iíll leave the cage door open at night while we are home during their play time in case they want to come out and explore.

This is basically the advice that was given within this thread. Leave them alone until the joeys are separated from the parents and then give mom some time to settle down before trying the bonding process again. The only additional piece of advice was to get the male neutered so there would be no more joeys to trigger mom's vary protective behavior.

Letting unbonded gliders possibly roam free is not always a good idea. How do you propose to get them back into their cage? Chasing them down will only set back any tiny little bit of progress you might have made. You will be shocked at how good they are at finding places to hide you never thought about or even thought they could get into. You will also need to make sure you house is glider safe so they cannot get lost within walls or inside furniture shock


Rehoming then again would just make it absolutely incredibly hard to do anything with them.

As for fixing the male itís not what I want to do but Iíll leave that alone for now and think about that again at a later time.

Personally, I'm don't understand why you wouldn't neuter the male unless you just want more and more joeys dunno

Will someone help me and coach me in what to do and how to handle this pair?

I really need guidance and knowledge.

If you read back through this thread, I don't know what more advice we could give you. Truthfully, I think we have given you the best we have based on what we know a bout this pair and our experience.

If you don't neuter the male, if the female is indeed a very protective mother, if you don't want to take the time (and it is going to take lots of time with this pair), then I'm not sure what more we can tell you.


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Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416367
05/24/18 11:32 AM
05/24/18 11:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,779
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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Tynk, I agree with Karen on neutering Dad and all boys if you plan to keep any.

We are here however and can share our own experiences and what did and did not work for us.

I'm glad you're going to give it another try. smile We will try to help get you through this one way or another. smile


Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416369
05/24/18 12:09 PM
05/24/18 12:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 777
Lecanto Florida
1daddyglider1 Offline
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Lecanto Florida
This is a link that might help out at feeding time, without really forcing any interaction. http://newagegliderssuggiew.forumsmotion.com/t62-bonding-interacting-handling-sugar-gliders

Also you may want to work with babies after separated from parents and let the parents watch your positive interactions with babies. They do learn from each other they can learn bad behavior or fear from another glider but also can learn to trust as my Pin Head did. He followed Peanut after watching her climb back down my arm and into shirt pocket pouch. One day he just did it to Paulette with no coaxing or encouragement. We were putting his nesting material back in cage and HE decided it was time and climbed up her hand then her arm and then down into the pocket. I call it the ignore me and show me you want to bond.

Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: 1daddyglider1] #1416370
05/24/18 01:14 PM
05/24/18 01:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
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KarenE  Offline
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Thank you, Art.


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Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416371
05/24/18 03:41 PM
05/24/18 03:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
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United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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Do I have to neuter all the males?


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416372
05/24/18 04:53 PM
05/24/18 04:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
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Depends on how you intend to house them and how they get along.

Sometimes you can house intact brothers together with no problem, however, sons/fathers could be another issue. Plus you really should keep the bonded pair together, and in your case the only way you can do that without having more joeys is to neuter the dad.

If you keep brother/sister together then, yes, you need to neuter the male/s.

If you keep any related male offspring with the mother then, yes, you should neuter the male not only so there is no inbreeding but also so there is no fighting with the intact father when they come to maturity.

These are just a few of the combinations and reasons for neutering.


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Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416375
05/24/18 11:52 PM
05/24/18 11:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 21
United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
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I plan on Keeping the brothers together in another cage in another room away from mom and dad. Should that be OK


Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416376
05/25/18 06:27 AM
05/25/18 06:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,779
SW Missouri
Ladymagyver Offline
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It will for awhile. When the boys become mature, they will start over marking their territory and bark to the other gliders. They have an excellent sense of smell. You will also have to wash your hands between handling gliders in separate cages.

Daddy glider brought up some excellent points.

The "monkey see monkey do" tactic really works. Good or bad influences will carry over to the joeys. It doesn't work overnight so to speak, but over time.

Don't get stressed over this. Like all other animals they can sense your fear, anxiety,and stress. They also know when you are calm, and happy.



Last edited by Ladymagyver; 05/25/18 06:30 AM.

Dawn

https://www.facebook.com/uptilldawngliders/

Be patient,
and
Trust your journey....




Fiona :grey:
Dot :grey:

Stewie :rtmo:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416379
05/25/18 11:06 AM
05/25/18 11:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
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KarenE  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 42,939
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Originally Posted By: Tynk3287
I plan on Keeping the brothers together in another cage in another room away from mom and dad. Should that be OK


As Dawn and I both said, it will for a while, however, as they mature more than likely there will come a time when dominance comes into play. These fights can be quite vicious leading to injury to one or both.

Most people have one or both males neutered to keep peace and to keep the brothers together if that is what they want to do.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
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Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416414
05/28/18 08:52 PM
05/28/18 08:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 21
United States
Tynk3287 Offline OP
In Pouch
Tynk3287  Offline OP
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Posts: 21
United States
Thatís really odd that yíall say that Iíve had brothers together in the same cage away from other gliders and they were just fine

Last edited by Tynk3287; 05/28/18 08:52 PM.

Best,
Tynk
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416477
06/02/18 01:07 PM
06/02/18 01:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
indiana
BYK_Chainsaw Offline
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indiana
The best advice for bonding that I can give.
we got connor after the owner lost his cagemate and left connor alone in the back room. only feeding him, they had a picture of him on their arm, but I think that was a long time ago in glider time.
Connor would crab so bad, and even lounge at us, but it did seem like he was less likely to actually bite, but I did not test or push him to start. After a few weeks of talking to him, and him crabbing back at me, I found he liked yogurt drops and gave him a few.
I continued to give him a treat and talk to him. He continued to crab and at first lounge to scare me away.
After a month or more, I would wait till he was eating the treat and give him a pet, he wasn't happy but let me pet him some while eating, not biting me...a baby step.

I started taking his sleeping pouch out of cage, hoping he wouldn't pop up and bite me, he didn't, just a ton of crabbing. I would look at him in pouch, talk to him, let him crab. the more I did this, the less time he crabbed and would settle down faster. with a treat I could slowly pet the BACK of his head.

Finally I moved to bathroom time, let him explore, on second trip I did a gentle scoop up (using two hands on each side, this seems to be a better method, the gliders can try to jump over you hand, so the chance to escape seems to mean they are less likely to bit, small or big bite) and he walked on me.

He has only tired to bite me while cutting nails, like almost all our glider do sometimes, He is now with the 4 white gliders and seems to have made a 100% successful introduction, But he still crabs a LOAD at first, but will stop after a few words to him usually, I just let him crab, as long as he's not biting.

i did this over about 8 months, just one small success after another, at times pushing him to something new and hoping he didn't bite, and I still have more work, I just moved them to a new glider room and he will get LOTS MORE out of cage time in a big area.

Last edited by BYK_Chainsaw; 06/02/18 01:11 PM.

John and Charlene
Gizmo :grey: / link :bb: / Sophie :wfb: / Riggs :grey: / scarface :grey: / gus :wfb:
Re: HELP!!! Adopted older gliders. [Re: Tynk3287] #1416560
06/10/18 07:49 PM
06/10/18 07:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 10
Albany New York
T
Trisha Offline
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Trisha  Offline
New Member
T

Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 10
Albany New York
I used bonding spray from Suncoast gliders and it made such a difference in my adopted glider accepting me and my other accepting him. I spray his fleece and rubbed it all over him. It calms them down and they become accepting.

Then I tried spraying some in a pouch. The next day they are snuggled up together after 6 weeks of crabbing and sleeping separate.

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