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Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321428
01/23/13 05:15 PM
01/23/13 05:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
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GliderFun  Offline OP
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
I get it!! Makes perfect sense. They also tell you to eat local honey from the area you’re living to help with allergies.

If immunities are learned from environment, how would we breed those out?

Are those leaned immunities?

It wouldn’t be genetic at that point, it would be your bodies memory to the disease/flu/etc and mounting an immunity to it (similar to how vaccines work, you get the vaccine and when exposed to the bug, your body reacts like it remembers).

And yes, you could breed out positive genetic traits, which is why you must selectively breed for positive traits and breed away from negative traits.

This task wouldn’t be easy and would take a lot of time. It wouldn’t be an overnight thing.

Unless the “bad genes” are LINKED to a certain “good gene” you want to keep, you should be able to accomplish breeding out bad, and breeding good.

(there is an argument that aggressive tendencies and "wolf like" personalities are linked to the appearance genes for wolves which means you can't breed a "wolf look alike" without breeding the personality traits along with it, which is why wolfdogs are illegal in some places. Don't know how true that is or how much I believe it, but the argument is there)

A genetic mutation, doesn’t that happen with an INDIVIDUAL and not to a WHOLE group (IE turtles with two heads)? Or am I thinking spontaneous mutation?

Wouldn’t we notice a mutation during the breeding process and be able to make adjustments?

We're not going to cull every glider in the world and then start inbreeding a single group.

You would start with one group of gliders and spend years working towards the perfect glider.

That "perfect glider" would only be ONE of the lines out there as everyone isn't going to just stop breeding until you're done with your purified line.

Just how there are lab strains of mice and rats (purified lines) and there are pet strains. Hundreds of lines.

So I don't think the risk of gliders being extinct due to a single mutation or people only being able to have one line is a real risk.

Again, this isn't an overnight thing. It will take YEARS upon years to perfect through selective breeding and holding back many gliders. It's a daunting task, which is another reason why it's not done (enter the whole conversation about how gliders don't breed often, small litters, etc)


(lol on the mood lighting!)


Yes, it’s instinct to breed to procreate to continue the species, but we are the ones who put them in cages together TO breed.

How do we know there aren't MANY females in a colony so 1/2 get a break while the other 1/2 breed. If we keep them in pairs, we FORCE the female to have baby after baby when she wouldn't be doing that in the wild (all speculation but seems to make sense).

We also decide to cut the testicles OFF our male gliders, cut the testicles off the male dogs, rip the ovaries and uterus out of female dogs. Those are some drastic things we do and we decide this for our dogs. (I don't want to get into the merits of spay/neutering right now)

We kill dogs every day for no other reason than there isn’t enough room for them. Yet people keep indiscriminately breeding dogs.

As far as hurting the gliders, there would be no pain involved in culling though I think I understand your point.


I find the thing about the camp fascinating. I don’t know how they can train being sick. I’m a wimp!

Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321448
01/23/13 06:09 PM
01/23/13 06:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Maryland
N
nccoastie622 Offline
Out of Pouch
nccoastie622  Offline
Out of Pouch
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 50
Maryland
Getting yelled at can in fact be a huge motivator towards training while sick,,,lol,,,

It would take years to accomplish, and I can agree with taking a beautiful female glider and a robust, handsome male glider and breeding them, we do it with people, dogs cats, pretty much anything. Wich makes sense, good genes make for good gliders right, I am not convinced of the inbreeding aspect though. I think there is to much chance for genetic problems in that sense.

As for the culling, that is a problem for me. I just don't like the thought of a poor glider being killed because it has a problem. We don't do it to people, we shouldn't do it to other animals.

As for the neutering and spaying we do that to ourselves as well as to animals as a form of birth control. Personally I think we should do that to humans( making them get fixed) you know, a guy with four kids, doesn't take care of them, doesn't pay child support, ...ther ya go buddy your snipped no more for you, woman if you have four kids from four different guys, no clue who the dad is for two of them, never been married living on welfare.....fixed.....that would save some problems, ( sorry if I offended anyone with that comment) we do it with pets for a number of reasons and I admit it's not always with the pets consent. However there is a difference between medical treatment and "culling" for a genetic or medical problem.

I love my glider, beau is an awesome little guy who has had a rough time. I am getting two more gliders whom are rescues as well. And I feel I can take care of them and give them all a good life. What I don't think is that I could breed them. I'm not that knowledgable with gliders.

As for the genes well a mother can pass on immunities to a child, or illness, so I'm assuming a glider can as well. If thats the case then it would be possible to breed a immunity out, or certain traits. Maybe the trait you accidentally breeder out was a good one. I don't know how many gliders are in the united states for breeding purposes, but genetic diversity it what helps to make each of us, and each glider, dog, cat, distinctly different. Sure there are similarities but we are all different. Wouldn't interbreeding That out to a degree in certain lines? Like I said these are just my opinions.

I just don't see where interbreeding would be a good thing. I honestly can't say anything scientifically related to this. I just don't know enough


Andrew
Husband to Rebecca.
Father of two gals, Ash and Fallon
Also
Jackson the coonhound, Mya the Chihuahua fox terrier mix,
and
:grey: Beau :grey: Dez :grey: Alley


Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: nccoastie622] #1321460
01/23/13 06:37 PM
01/23/13 06:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Just out of curiosity, what would you see as bad traits that you would try to breed out? I'm sure physical deformities and health issues, but health issues are not something you would necessarily see at birth.

And what good traits would you be breeding for?

As with horses, dogs, goats, etc., there are breed standards, there aren't for gliders. So if, for example, a dairy goat was producing kids with extra teats, that is a fault. You would stop breeding that female. If you want to improve the length of the loin on a Boer goat, you breed it with a more muscular boer goat with a long loin and short twist. Want to improve the milk production in a Boer goat, cross it with a dairy goat. (Yes, I bred goats for several years. wink )

What would we "look" for in sugar gliders? Right now, all we have is coat color, temperament (which is debatable of what is inherited vs. learned), production rate, life span (which has a lot of environmental factors to consider). Even though we know that some of the WF gliders tend to be heavier gliders, you don't see that until they reach maturity or later in adulthood. So how would you know a particular pair would pass that trait until it's older and has likely reproduced themselves?


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321462
01/23/13 06:40 PM
01/23/13 06:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: GliderFun
BTW ARE WE ALLOWED TO POST YOUTUBE VIDEOS IN HERE??? Let me know and I’ll post some examples of rodents doing tricks. smile


Yes, as long as it complies with Rule 7. wink


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderNursery] #1321472
01/23/13 07:25 PM
01/23/13 07:25 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
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G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
Lets see sugar gliders do this (play basketball, skateboard, do tricks). If someone can show me a video of that I'll eat my tie (and by tie I mean more brownies) tounge



(please look in community hall to find the videos that go along with this discussion and then come back to this forum and post your replies so the discussion doesn't get split, I don't know else to "legally" do it, sorry for the inconvenience) ;-)

Last edited by GliderFun; 01/23/13 09:12 PM.
Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321473
01/23/13 07:26 PM
01/23/13 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
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GliderFun  Offline OP
Glider Lover
G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
...

Last edited by GliderFun; 01/23/13 09:17 PM.
Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321474
01/23/13 07:32 PM
01/23/13 07:32 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I sent you a PM about videos. wink


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321508
01/23/13 09:28 PM
01/23/13 09:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 738
Columbia, TN
StowawayGliders Offline
Glider Guardian
StowawayGliders  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 738
Columbia, TN
Ok, I stand corrected in a few areas. I know that mice are a big problem in Australia, ruining crops when they get over populated, I was unaware of Sugar gliders being pests.

I still don't like mice or rats as pets or pests in my house. I have had a friend that had a pet rat, I understand that some people have a connection and love them but for me, My views of them as pets are ruined. Some people have insects such as cockroaches as pets. It's just not a path I will choose.

The little parakeets are pests in their native country, I saw a documentary on them, the sky is full of them. Crazy to think about.

Very enlightening thread. smile

I don't think line breeding will fly in glider community, but thats my opinion.

Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321512
01/23/13 09:41 PM
01/23/13 09:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 180
Kentucky
Tigerlily Offline
Glider Explorer
Tigerlily  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 180
Kentucky
It could be a very useful tool, especially since so little is still known about genetics in gliders. The problems just start coming in where cost and time are concerned. There are so few people out there who would have the facility and the funds, let alone the time to dedicate to a project like that. It's been done in larger species like dogs and horses because they can bring in so much more income and entire industries are built around them, but wow, think of the possibilities of what we could learn.


Jennifer

Happily indentured servant to many precious sugar gliders, 3 mischievous dachshunds, 3 horses, and one very patient cat.

www.tigerlilygliders.net
Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321513
01/23/13 09:52 PM
01/23/13 09:52 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
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G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
HAH I didn't know the thing about parrotkeets. WOW I can't imagine that

I didn't realize you weren't in the US

Yeah, I know people with roaches as pets. I have dubias and hissers but I think they are so gross but neat as long as I don't have to touch them. Ick. I think I have them only to help get myself over my great dislike for bugs. What better bug to have than a roach.

ew
ew
ew

I agree, it may be hard to get the glider community on board with the idea, but with so many more people double thinking the old "norms" as it pertains to gliders, I don't see it as being too out of the question.

And yeah, it'd take a lot of time, money, and dedication but could open us up to a world of new information

Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321515
01/23/13 09:57 PM
01/23/13 09:57 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 180
Kentucky
Tigerlily Offline
Glider Explorer
Tigerlily  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 180
Kentucky
I have friend who keeps at least a dozen spiders and scorpions as pets, so it just goes to show that all of us have our own ideas of "Cute and cuddly."

But when I hit the lottery I'll start a genetics research project....then maybe my parents will be happy that I'm finally using my biology degree :rofl2:


Jennifer

Happily indentured servant to many precious sugar gliders, 3 mischievous dachshunds, 3 horses, and one very patient cat.

www.tigerlilygliders.net
Re: Inbreeding and line breeding in sugar gliders [Re: GliderFun] #1321566
01/24/13 12:17 AM
01/24/13 12:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 738
Columbia, TN
StowawayGliders Offline
Glider Guardian
StowawayGliders  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 738
Columbia, TN
I am in the US... I am in Tennessee. smile

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