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(Toxic cage thread) 20+ babies are dead #1115920
05/18/11 07:35 PM
05/18/11 07:35 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



My baby has been really sick and i had no idea why, and still dont. Today i went back to a second vet and she gave me some horrifying news - in the last 2 weeks she has seen 20+ gliders all bought from the same place (a mall) and all by the same company. 95% have died. She claims that they have done everything and nothing has worked - calcium injections, steroids, antibiotics, fluids for rehydration, and even treatment for heavy metal toxicity...they just keep dying.

I dont know what to do and i am just keeping my fingers crossed that my girl is one of the lucky ones. She got an injection of steroids, some more SubQ fluid with calcium, and i am home with a calcium supplement and antibiotic to give her for the next few weeks if she makes it.

I dont know if i should go to the press, or what to do at this point. I am so sad and feel so much guilt.

Last edited by sugarlope; 10/09/11 04:23 PM. Reason: changed title
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115921
05/18/11 07:38 PM
05/18/11 07:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,108
Phoenix AZ
C
chattrbabe Offline
Glider Addict
chattrbabe  Offline
Glider Addict
C

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,108
Phoenix AZ
I would go to the press if I were you. sounds like a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets booth or another mill breeder booth.


Ash
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115922
05/18/11 07:39 PM
05/18/11 07:39 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
oh my god, praying for your baby. i also read your post on
lgg. i hope you post this there as well.

what is going on? this is very scary.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115925
05/18/11 07:42 PM
05/18/11 07:42 PM

N
Nic
Unregistered
Nic
Unregistered
N



Oh NO!! Prayers being sent for your little girl! I hope she pulls through!

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115926
05/18/11 07:43 PM
05/18/11 07:43 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



I have no idea - (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets thinks it has to do with their cages, but I'm not so sure. My sister got one at the same time and started hers right off on the HML diet and her baby is thriving.

Last edited by DaisysMama; 05/18/11 07:43 PM.
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115927
05/18/11 07:45 PM
05/18/11 07:45 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



and i just want to add that this is from ONE vet - the other vet i went to yesterday has seen 5.

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115931
05/18/11 07:54 PM
05/18/11 07:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
daisysmama,
what kind of cage is your sister using? there have been
alot of sick gliders mentioned here and on lgg regarding
a certain cage, i believe you had the cage that is in question.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115932
05/18/11 07:56 PM
05/18/11 07:56 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



She has the same cage too Nancy. The only difference between ours is the diet, and the fact that hers was bigger (older?) when we got them.

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115935
05/18/11 08:03 PM
05/18/11 08:03 PM

T
Tricia
Unregistered
Tricia
Unregistered
T



Oh Sweety - Keeping you both in my prayers. sounds like you're doing everything you can to help her. hug2

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115936
05/18/11 08:05 PM
05/18/11 08:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer
Chris_R  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Tell your sis to get it out of the cage!! Heavy metal toxicity WILL take longer to show signs/symptoms the larger the animal, once the signs/symptoms show up its darn near impossible to treat as they are already to far gone!!

Last edited by Chris_R; 05/18/11 08:06 PM.
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115938
05/18/11 08:05 PM
05/18/11 08:05 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



I also would like to ask that people from Pocket Pets please stop calling me, as I do not wish to discuss this further over the phone. I know you are reading this, and I would be happy to discuss this here where others can weigh in on the situation as well, and the issue is made public.

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115939
05/18/11 08:06 PM
05/18/11 08:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,454
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,454
Wisconsin
Please give this link The Mill Breeder Project to your veterinarian so that she may give her findings to Linda S the head of The mill breeder Project.

This information is vital to the mill breeder Project.

Sending prayers and good thoughts out to you for your baby.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Stevie, Cho, Toothless & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Khayman, Light Fury & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115940
05/18/11 08:07 PM
05/18/11 08:07 PM

D
DaisysMama
Unregistered
DaisysMama
Unregistered
D



Thats a good point Chris - i'll let her know.

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115941
05/18/11 08:10 PM
05/18/11 08:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer
holelottaRosie  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
I got my first glider from Pocket Pets back around Thanksgiving...she ate the pellets they gave me for about 2 weeks or so then I didnt research bought a much better pellet from Exotic Nutrition. A few weeks after that I made my first batch of BML...she is now one plump happy picture of health little girl. I truly can't say that Pocket Pets lied to me about anything....They fail to tell you alot though. I would never buy from them again if for no other reason they target kids in the malls....It is my opinion that gliders are NOT a suitable pet for children...I'm sure most people on this site would agree with me on that.

Gary


Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115943
05/18/11 08:15 PM
05/18/11 08:15 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
I agree with you Gary 110%!

I hope your baby pulls through and your sister's does as well. Like what was said about it just taking longer to do anything, she may be able to help hers live if she switches now! Both your and your sister's babies are in my thoughts and prayers!


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115944
05/18/11 08:15 PM
05/18/11 08:15 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer
Chris_R  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Contact Val at www.thesweetspot.forumotion.net as they are tracking these problems

(PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets babies are NOT the only ones across the country that we are seeing these problems with...It does appear at this stage that it is linked more with the cage wire type than anything else

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115945
05/18/11 08:21 PM
05/18/11 08:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie Offline
Glider Explorer
holelottaRosie  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
Does anyone know the cage type in question? Coating type? who makes it?


Gary
Servant to
Mia & Rosie :grey: Delilah :wfb:
Piper,Phoebe and Paige :grey: "The Charmed Ones"
My Connie babies Liam & Lilith :bb: And Sparrow :rtmo:
3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley
1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great"
1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115946
05/18/11 08:22 PM
05/18/11 08:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
daisymama,
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115952
05/18/11 08:32 PM
05/18/11 08:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Ditto Chris,

just contacted a friend and tried to warn of the wire cages JUST got for babies, lost babies shortly after switching to the coated wire cage, good breeder babies are being affected also.


-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: Chris_R] #1115971
05/18/11 08:56 PM
05/18/11 08:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 571
Kenosha,WI
J
jen102375 Offline
Glider Lover
jen102375  Offline
Glider Lover
J

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 571
Kenosha,WI
Originally Posted By: Chris_R
Contact Val at www.thesweetspot.forumotion.net as they are tracking these problems

PPP babies are NOT the only ones across the country that we are seeing these problems with...It does appear at this stage that it is linked more with the cage wire type than anything else




Please contact Val


Slave 2
Hubby Jon
3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6)
6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity
4 wonderful Rescues

Jen
262 748-4128 24hr help
www.thegliderboutique.com

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU) smile


Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1115989
05/18/11 09:15 PM
05/18/11 09:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 459
Southern Iowa
T
TTrusty Offline
Glider Lover
TTrusty  Offline
Glider Lover
T

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 459
Southern Iowa
Giardia and parisites is another thing vets need to be checking for in (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders.


Mommy to:

Zoey and Teeka

Rockie, Bo and Hamilton

Sadie, Levi, Maggie, and Radar (dogs)
RIP Tippy (rescue)

Three human kids Natosha, Skylar, Keith
And a now new grand baby Abby

Glide Free My Boy MoMo
We will always Love You
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: TTrusty] #1116008
05/18/11 10:03 PM
05/18/11 10:03 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
The MBP has been fully aware of these issues and are working with the proper authorities to get to the root of the problem.

We do know that this is not isolated to just one Broker, as there are several other distributors of cages who are having the same issues.

There are many steps being taken right now to resolve and correct the problems. Please contact me at director@millbreederproject.com if you know of or have been experiencing health issues with your sugar glider.



Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116018
05/18/11 10:34 PM
05/18/11 10:34 PM

L
lovely1inred
Unregistered
lovely1inred
Unregistered
L



If you are experiencing these problems, please contact Val, LSardou, or Bourbon on the issue. They are all in contact with vets on this and have seen/heard multiple cases.

The first thing you can do at home, is remove your gliders from that cage. If they area seizing, they need to be in a hospital-sized smaller cage anyway. The pop-up travel kennels at Walmart are an excellent choice here, as they can be laid on their side to reduce risk of falls, and are also softer than a metal cage, and very quick and cheap to acquire.

Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116038
05/18/11 11:29 PM
05/18/11 11:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I'm sorry about your baby frown....

Last edited by angelic4296; 05/19/11 11:26 PM.

Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116055
05/18/11 11:44 PM
05/18/11 11:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Is this similar to the problem PrincessMegi had a few years ago? She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz and it had some sort of coating on it that was releasing toxic fumes.

Does anyone remember that? - or could contact Megi. I seem to recall that she took the cage to a power washer/car wash and the detergent there was able to take that toxic coating off. But I don't remember what they ever decided the coating was.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1116060
05/18/11 11:59 PM
05/18/11 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
M
Midien Offline
Joey Member
Midien  Offline
Joey Member
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
Quote:
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials?


~Laura~

<3 :grey: Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna :grey: <3
and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116063
05/19/11 12:12 AM
05/19/11 12:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz


I didn't think she got it from Klubertanz but off ebay? I know it was blue coating on the wire, not the black like the Klubertanz.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: Midien] #1116065
05/19/11 12:18 AM
05/19/11 12:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
WintersSong Offline
Glider Slave
WintersSong  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
Originally Posted By: Midien
Quote:
there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in
common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages.
the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages.
the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of
fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.


Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials?


From what I am understanding,
many members have had problems with Martin's Cages lately, having ill gliders. It is believed that there is something wrong with the recent "batch" of PVC coated wire.

Pocket Pets starter cage is PVC coated wire as well, and now problems seem to be arising with use of that cage.

To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out.


~*Sara*~

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116070
05/19/11 12:32 AM
05/19/11 12:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
E
eshaw Offline
Glider Lover
eshaw  Offline
Glider Lover
E

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
Daisymoma, what did you do to feel guilty about? Nothing that I can see. Sometimes things are just beyond your control so there is NO SENSE in beating yourself up for it.

All this talk about heavy metal toxicity, has anyone actually contacted the cage manufacturer to see what paint they use on their cages? Are they aware that there is even an issue? MSD sheets will tell you everything you need to know about chemical compounds but you have to know the brand name for the paint in question first. I'm also assuming that the vets think there may be a chance of lead poisoning, thus the heavy metal issue. I'll make a prediction. Once it's determined that the coating is the cause they will find that these cages all stem from specific lot numbers and the coating in question has been provided by a new vendor. Or worse yet, they really cheaped out and went to a Chinese manufacturer. Anyone remember what happened with McDonalds and their Chinese toys? These are not isolated incidents either.

ValkyrieMome, this is another reason that cage materials need to be scrutinized very carefully. The purchased wire you're referring to is probably coated with a galvanizing material after welding is done. This is done to keep the wire from rusting. However, this coating causes the urinary tract infections you're probably all aware of but in the wrong environment, such as around a heat source if does and will give off a lethal fume. I know this for a fact from doing welding over the years. This is something you do not want to do without proper protection.

Last edited by eshaw; 05/19/11 12:33 AM.
Re: 20+ babies are dead [Re: ] #1116084
05/19/11 01:21 AM
05/19/11 01:21 AM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
M
Midien Offline
Joey Member
Midien  Offline
Joey Member
M

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
Quote:
To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out.


What would be the best alternative, then, if I needed to set up a secondary cage? He likes to chew a bit on the edges of things, so I'd been worried about using a mesh cage, and while I'd thought about making a PVC framed one, don't some of those designs use the same coated wire as Martins?

Nox has seemed mostly fine so far, but... :/ (For me, as well as anyone else in my position who may be reading this) Since he's been in a PVC coated cage, what should I tell the vet to check for, next time I go? If there's a test they can do to see if there's a toxicity problem now rather than waiting, better safe than sorry I guess.

Something else that might be a good question, though:

Is it a problem with the PVC itself being toxic? Or maybe just a problem with a coating that could be washed off? Or just the PVC 'off-gassing'? Granted, I'm no expert on cages, but I'd be curious.


~Laura~

<3 :grey: Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna :grey: <3
and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3
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