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(Toxic cage thread) 20+ babies are dead
#1115920
05/18/11 08:35 PM
05/18/11 08:35 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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My baby has been really sick and i had no idea why, and still dont. Today i went back to a second vet and she gave me some horrifying news - in the last 2 weeks she has seen 20+ gliders all bought from the same place (a mall) and all by the same company. 95% have died. She claims that they have done everything and nothing has worked - calcium injections, steroids, antibiotics, fluids for rehydration, and even treatment for heavy metal toxicity...they just keep dying. I dont know what to do and i am just keeping my fingers crossed that my girl is one of the lucky ones. She got an injection of steroids, some more SubQ fluid with calcium, and i am home with a calcium supplement and antibiotic to give her for the next few weeks if she makes it. I dont know if i should go to the press, or what to do at this point. I am so sad and feel so much guilt.
Last edited by sugarlope; 10/09/11 05:23 PM. Reason: changed title
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115922
05/18/11 08:39 PM
05/18/11 08:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839 roseville, mi
hwh4ev
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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oh my god, praying for your baby. i also read your post on lgg. i hope you post this there as well.
what is going on? this is very scary.
regards, nancy in detroit
regards, nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115925
05/18/11 08:42 PM
05/18/11 08:42 PM
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Nic
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Nic
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Oh NO!! Prayers being sent for your little girl! I hope she pulls through!
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115926
05/18/11 08:43 PM
05/18/11 08:43 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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I have no idea - (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets thinks it has to do with their cages, but I'm not so sure. My sister got one at the same time and started hers right off on the HML diet and her baby is thriving.
Last edited by DaisysMama; 05/18/11 08:43 PM.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115927
05/18/11 08:45 PM
05/18/11 08:45 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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and i just want to add that this is from ONE vet - the other vet i went to yesterday has seen 5.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115931
05/18/11 08:54 PM
05/18/11 08:54 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839 roseville, mi
hwh4ev
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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daisysmama, what kind of cage is your sister using? there have been alot of sick gliders mentioned here and on lgg regarding a certain cage, i believe you had the cage that is in question.
regards, nancy in detroit
regards, nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115932
05/18/11 08:56 PM
05/18/11 08:56 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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She has the same cage too Nancy. The only difference between ours is the diet, and the fact that hers was bigger (older?) when we got them.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115935
05/18/11 09:03 PM
05/18/11 09:03 PM
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Tricia
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Tricia
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Oh Sweety - Keeping you both in my prayers. sounds like you're doing everything you can to help her.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115936
05/18/11 09:05 PM
05/18/11 09:05 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310 Northwest Missouri
Chris_R
Glider Explorer
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Glider Explorer
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
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Tell your sis to get it out of the cage!! Heavy metal toxicity WILL take longer to show signs/symptoms the larger the animal, once the signs/symptoms show up its darn near impossible to treat as they are already to far gone!!
Last edited by Chris_R; 05/18/11 09:06 PM.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115938
05/18/11 09:05 PM
05/18/11 09:05 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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I also would like to ask that people from Pocket Pets please stop calling me, as I do not wish to discuss this further over the phone. I know you are reading this, and I would be happy to discuss this here where others can weigh in on the situation as well, and the issue is made public.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115939
05/18/11 09:06 PM
05/18/11 09:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,979 Wisconsin
Feather
Administrator
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Administrator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,979
Wisconsin
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Please give this link The Mill Breeder Project to your veterinarian so that she may give her findings to Linda S the head of The mill breeder Project. This information is vital to the mill breeder Project. Sending prayers and good thoughts out to you for your baby.
Kimberley Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115940
05/18/11 09:07 PM
05/18/11 09:07 PM
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DaisysMama
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DaisysMama
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Thats a good point Chris - i'll let her know.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115941
05/18/11 09:10 PM
05/18/11 09:10 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223 Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie
Glider Explorer
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Glider Explorer
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
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I got my first glider from Pocket Pets back around Thanksgiving...she ate the pellets they gave me for about 2 weeks or so then I didnt research bought a much better pellet from Exotic Nutrition. A few weeks after that I made my first batch of BML...she is now one plump happy picture of health little girl. I truly can't say that Pocket Pets lied to me about anything....They fail to tell you alot though. I would never buy from them again if for no other reason they target kids in the malls....It is my opinion that gliders are NOT a suitable pet for children...I'm sure most people on this site would agree with me on that. Gary
Gary Servant to Mia & Rosie Delilah Piper,Phoebe and Paige "The Charmed Ones" My Connie babies Liam & Lilith And Sparrow 3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley 1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great" 1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115945
05/18/11 09:21 PM
05/18/11 09:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223 Joppa, Maryland
holelottaRosie
Glider Explorer
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Glider Explorer
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 223
Joppa, Maryland
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Does anyone know the cage type in question? Coating type? who makes it?
Gary Servant to Mia & Rosie Delilah Piper,Phoebe and Paige "The Charmed Ones" My Connie babies Liam & Lilith And Sparrow 3 Kitties Jazzy,Angus and Clyde..We miss you Ashley 1 Adorable Basset Hound Puppy "Zelda The Great" 1 Adorable Wife Celia "The Boss"
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115946
05/18/11 09:22 PM
05/18/11 09:22 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839 roseville, mi
hwh4ev
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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daisymama, there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages. the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages. the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.
regards, nancy in detroit
regards, nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115952
05/18/11 09:32 PM
05/18/11 09:32 PM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970 Spring, Texas
Trigger
Glider Addict
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Glider Addict
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
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Ditto Chris, just contacted a friend and tried to warn of the wire cages JUST got for babies, lost babies shortly after switching to the coated wire cage, good breeder babies are being affected also.
»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: Chris_R]
#1115971
05/18/11 09:56 PM
05/18/11 09:56 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 571 Kenosha,WI
jen102375
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Glider Lover
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Posts: 571
Kenosha,WI
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Contact Val at www.thesweetspot.forumotion.net as they are tracking these problems PPP babies are NOT the only ones across the country that we are seeing these problems with...It does appear at this stage that it is linked more with the cage wire type than anything else Please contact Val
Slave 2 Hubby Jon 3 daughters Ellivia(13)Hanna(10)Alayna(6) 6 Suggies: Harley/Abby, Pongo/Pracilla, Cash/Charity 4 wonderful Rescues Jen 262 748-4128 24hr help www.thegliderboutique.comPLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEY'S (THANK YOU)
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1115989
05/18/11 10:15 PM
05/18/11 10:15 PM
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 459 Southern Iowa
TTrusty
Glider Lover
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Glider Lover
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 459
Southern Iowa
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Giardia and parisites is another thing vets need to be checking for in (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets gliders.
Mommy to:
Zoey and Teeka
Rockie, Bo and Hamilton
Sadie, Levi, Maggie, and Radar (dogs) RIP Tippy (rescue)
Three human kids Natosha, Skylar, Keith And a now new grand baby Abby
Glide Free My Boy MoMo We will always Love You
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1116018
05/18/11 11:34 PM
05/18/11 11:34 PM
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lovely1inred
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lovely1inred
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If you are experiencing these problems, please contact Val, LSardou, or Bourbon on the issue. They are all in contact with vets on this and have seen/heard multiple cases. The first thing you can do at home, is remove your gliders from that cage. If they area seizing, they need to be in a hospital-sized smaller cage anyway. The pop-up travel kennels at Walmart are an excellent choice here, as they can be laid on their side to reduce risk of falls, and are also softer than a metal cage, and very quick and cheap to acquire.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1116055
05/19/11 12:44 AM
05/19/11 12:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983 Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
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Is this similar to the problem PrincessMegi had a few years ago? She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz and it had some sort of coating on it that was releasing toxic fumes. Does anyone remember that? - or could contact Megi. I seem to recall that she took the cage to a power washer/car wash and the detergent there was able to take that toxic coating off. But I don't remember what they ever decided the coating was.
Alden "Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker
Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs; and very many great gliders!
(plus the 2 skin kids) valkyriegliders.com
Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ValkyrieMome]
#1116060
05/19/11 12:59 AM
05/19/11 12:59 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128 Mississippi
Midien
Joey Member
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Joey Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
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there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages. the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages. the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.
Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials?
~Laura~ <3 Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna <3 and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1116063
05/19/11 01:12 AM
05/19/11 01:12 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749 80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing
Glideritis Anonymous
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Glideritis Anonymous
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
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She bought a different kind of wire from Kuberantz I didn't think she got it from Klubertanz but off ebay? I know it was blue coating on the wire, not the black like the Klubertanz.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: Midien]
#1116065
05/19/11 01:18 AM
05/19/11 01:18 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294 NY
WintersSong
Glider Slave
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Glider Slave
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,294
NY
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there have been gliders dying and they all have 1 thing in common-they were in martins cages. they also have the symptoms your glider is showing. please use or buy a different cage. there is alot of trouble and everything points to the martins cages. the info is at lgg abt. these martins cages. the person that wrote abt. his glider said giving alot of fluids, feedings, antibiotics, etc. helped his glider.
Wait... Martins cages?? I just recently got Nox's new cage from there! Is it the cages ordered from Martins? Or just the ones that the mill breeders are using that are made of similar materials? From what I am understanding, many members have had problems with Martin's Cages lately, having ill gliders. It is believed that there is something wrong with the recent "batch" of PVC coated wire. Pocket Pets starter cage is PVC coated wire as well, and now problems seem to be arising with use of that cage. To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out.
~*Sara*~
"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom." ~Anais Nin
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1116070
05/19/11 01:32 AM
05/19/11 01:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593 Iowa
eshaw
Glider Lover
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Glider Lover
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
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Daisymoma, what did you do to feel guilty about? Nothing that I can see. Sometimes things are just beyond your control so there is NO SENSE in beating yourself up for it. All this talk about heavy metal toxicity, has anyone actually contacted the cage manufacturer to see what paint they use on their cages? Are they aware that there is even an issue? MSD sheets will tell you everything you need to know about chemical compounds but you have to know the brand name for the paint in question first. I'm also assuming that the vets think there may be a chance of lead poisoning, thus the heavy metal issue. I'll make a prediction. Once it's determined that the coating is the cause they will find that these cages all stem from specific lot numbers and the coating in question has been provided by a new vendor. Or worse yet, they really cheaped out and went to a Chinese manufacturer. Anyone remember what happened with McDonalds and their Chinese toys? These are not isolated incidents either. ValkyrieMome, this is another reason that cage materials need to be scrutinized very carefully. The purchased wire you're referring to is probably coated with a galvanizing material after welding is done. This is done to keep the wire from rusting. However, this coating causes the urinary tract infections you're probably all aware of but in the wrong environment, such as around a heat source if does and will give off a lethal fume. I know this for a fact from doing welding over the years. This is something you do not want to do without proper protection.
Last edited by eshaw; 05/19/11 01:33 AM.
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Re: 20+ babies are dead
[Re: ]
#1116084
05/19/11 02:21 AM
05/19/11 02:21 AM
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128 Mississippi
Midien
Joey Member
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Joey Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 128
Mississippi
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To me, it appears that there is just something wrong with the wire now. I, personally, would not put my gliders into a PVC coated wire cage until everything is sorted out. What would be the best alternative, then, if I needed to set up a secondary cage? He likes to chew a bit on the edges of things, so I'd been worried about using a mesh cage, and while I'd thought about making a PVC framed one, don't some of those designs use the same coated wire as Martins? Nox has seemed mostly fine so far, but... :/ (For me, as well as anyone else in my position who may be reading this) Since he's been in a PVC coated cage, what should I tell the vet to check for, next time I go? If there's a test they can do to see if there's a toxicity problem now rather than waiting, better safe than sorry I guess. Something else that might be a good question, though: Is it a problem with the PVC itself being toxic? Or maybe just a problem with a coating that could be washed off? Or just the PVC 'off-gassing'? Granted, I'm no expert on cages, but I'd be curious.
~Laura~ <3 Nox (Approx. OOP 02/15/2011) and Luna <3 and a puppy - Tucker (Approx. birth 05/2007) <3
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