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Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108047
05/02/11 10:13 PM
05/02/11 10:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
T
tournesoul Offline
Glider Guardian
tournesoul  Offline
Glider Guardian
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
dance SUCH awesome news!!! dance

I just have a couple questions about all this... for anyone who can aswer ~
1) Where in FL are you? and you go to FL for part of the year and then Virginia? I think you might have said something about that way back but that was SSOOO long ago... Im not sure where to look.

2) What is this vets name? I cant imagine he wants to be anonymous, does he? I think we would all like to know... (I have lived a 1/3 of my life in FL and as nice as the 30 minutes of summer can be here upstate NY, I am still not sure it makes up for the other three seasons frown winter, before winter and after winter!! - My point is that I for one would definitely like to know who this vet is b/c Im likely not staying here a whole lot longer....)

3)How did he and Simba bond so well? Or is that just the kind of guy Simba is??? Being new at all this, and with all its taking here to bond to these boys ~ I have to wonder how a vet, one who does all the poking and prodding, gets a tight relationship going... Am I explaining that well at all? Nothing against vets at all, obviously... Its just that alot, if not most, animals dont really like going to the vet too much and its not like vets have alot of time to just hang out, bond, and get to know everyones pets... How long have they known each other? Did Simba see him regularly before? I mean enough to actually know him and that he was going to help him??

4) I know nothing about penis amputation. How exactly does he pee now? I hope that is not a dumb question...

Thanks!
Again, SOSOSOSOSOSO happy that he is doing well!!! jump mlove jump

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: tournesoul] #1108052
05/02/11 10:30 PM
05/02/11 10:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
Originally Posted By: tournesoul


4) I know nothing about penis amputation. How exactly does he pee now? I hope that is not a dumb question...
Not dumb at all! Males use their penis solely for reproduction. They don't need it to pee.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: suggiemom1980] #1108132
05/03/11 01:28 AM
05/03/11 01:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
T
tournesoul Offline
Glider Guardian
tournesoul  Offline
Glider Guardian
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
Originally Posted By: suggiemom1980
Originally Posted By: tournesoul


4) I know nothing about penis amputation. How exactly does he pee now? I hope that is not a dumb question...
Not dumb at all! Males use their penis solely for reproduction. They don't need it to pee.


OMG!!! Now, I REALLY feel dumb.

So the pee just happens to come out there but doesnt need to?

I swear my 11 yr old knows more than I do!! Are you smarter than a 6th grader?

*** NOT that she knows more about the penis than I do... That is definitely NOT what I meant! OMG... LOL ***

[censored] no! frown

Last edited by tournesoul; 05/03/11 01:29 AM.
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108149
05/03/11 03:13 AM
05/03/11 03:13 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
the urethra actually runs under the penis and exits just below the fork.don't feel dumb, few people really know

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108372
05/03/11 03:08 PM
05/03/11 03:08 PM

N
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
N



I just got a call from the vet's office. He had his vet tech call me to let me know that Simba is eating better and is sleeping peacefully right now. He still doesn't feel comfortable with me bringing him home yet but he will talk to me about that and everything else when he calls. He's going to call me after he sees a few patients. He just didn't want me to sit here and worry. How nice of him to do that. smile
The vet tech also said he would weigh Simba and let me know what his weight is. He had lost a lot of weight during this and I want to see if he is finally gaining it back. I will feel much better when he is gaining it back.

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: tournesoul] #1108381
05/03/11 03:32 PM
05/03/11 03:32 PM

N
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
N



Originally Posted By: tournesoul
dance SUCH awesome news!!! dance

I just have a couple questions about all this... for anyone who can aswer ~
1) Where in FL are you? and you go to FL for part of the year and then Virginia? I think you might have said something about that way back but that was SSOOO long ago... Im not sure where to look.

2) What is this vets name? I cant imagine he wants to be anonymous, does he? I think we would all like to know... (I have lived a 1/3 of my life in FL and as nice as the 30 minutes of summer can be here upstate NY, I am still not sure it makes up for the other three seasons frown winter, before winter and after winter!! - My point is that I for one would definitely like to know who this vet is b/c Im likely not staying here a whole lot longer....)

3)How did he and Simba bond so well? Or is that just the kind of guy Simba is??? Being new at all this, and with all its taking here to bond to these boys ~ I have to wonder how a vet, one who does all the poking and prodding, gets a tight relationship going... Am I explaining that well at all? Nothing against vets at all, obviously... Its just that alot, if not most, animals dont really like going to the vet too much and its not like vets have alot of time to just hang out, bond, and get to know everyones pets... How long have they known each other? Did Simba see him regularly before? I mean enough to actually know him and that he was going to help him??

4) I know nothing about penis amputation. How exactly does he pee now? I hope that is not a dumb question...

Thanks!
Again, SOSOSOSOSOSO happy that he is doing well!!! jump mlove jump




1. I'm in Gainesville FL. I am from here and my husband is military stationed in VA. We go back and forth all throughout the year. Sometimes I stay in FL for months at a time.

2. The vet I use in FL is Dr.Patrick Gauvin from All Creatures Family Pet center. It's a small office but him and his wife are both vets and he is one of the best vets I have ever worked with! I highly recommend him to anyone in the area that needs a vet!

3. I have been taking my gliders to Dr.Pat for years. I have a vet in FL and a vet in VA. They are both awesome. I wouldn't say that Simba sees him enough to know him. Simba is a very sweet boy. He loves people. Dr.Pat is the type of vet that treats animals like little people. He truly loves his job and is in it to help animals. He has been very gentle with Simba and has been spending a lot of time with him. Simba liked him from the first day he saw him after this started. He was examining him and putting topical medicine on him and would stop just to give Simba a little sugar water from a syringe. Everyone that knows Simba personally will agree that THAT is the way to Simba's heart! Lol He spoke very softly to him and just showed Simba that he really cared and was there to help him. Their bond formed almost instantly. Dr.Pat hasn't just been treating Simba's medical issues. He has also been treating him mentally. He has cuddled with him and gently played with him. He has carried him around on him for hours at a time giving him that human interaction that he needs. He has also been hand feeding him which has also brought them closer. Dr.Pat is just so intuned to animals and seems to really understand that they don't just need medical treatment they need to feel cared for and to be loved.

4. Sugar gliders have a forked penis. Right where the fork begins (where the two parts of the penis split off) is the urethra where they pee. A vet can amputate all the way up to where the fork is and they will still be able to pee. Some gliders only require a partial amputation but due to the frenulum that keeps the penis from hanging out of the body all the time being totally destroyed, Simba had to have a full amputation. A full amputation is a very delicate surgery because they have to make sure that they don't damage the urethra and that it stays intact. Gliders that do well through the surgery usually heal up and have normal lives.

Don't ever think your questions are dumb! It shows your interest to learn more about gliders! That is a good thing and we would never think you were dumb for wanting to learn more! We all had to start somewhere. At one point every one of us didn't know much about them. We still don't know everything since there is not enough known about them. That is why there is constant research being done to try to learn more. Just Simba's case alone is teaching the vets about more about gliders that they may not have known before. I have definitely learned a LOT from everything that has happened with Simba! I hope that what Simba has gone through will help other gliders down the road. Hopefully no other glider will have to go through what he has been through.


Keep the prayers and good thoughts coming for my little Simba!

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: vagraphix] #1108384
05/03/11 03:37 PM
05/03/11 03:37 PM

N
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
NavyChiefWife
Unregistered
N



Originally Posted By: vagraphix
Brandi can you bring that vet back with you this summer?


I begged him to come but for some reason he just wont do it. Darn! At least he talks to Dr.Brinker in VA so we know Dr.Brinker can call him any time for advice if he needs to. They are both good vets!
I still think we should take over Texas and move all of the glider owners there along with all of the good vets! grin

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108390
05/03/11 03:46 PM
05/03/11 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
I'm glad to hear he's doing better and can't wait for the post when you let us know that he's coming home laugh

Don't worry I too was wondering how the whole peeing thing would work if he didn't have a penis but now I know smile

Get better soon Simba! Mommy and your ladies are missing you! hug2


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108398
05/03/11 04:03 PM
05/03/11 04:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
not texas...too hot for me...how about montana?

I am so glad Simba is on the road to healing!


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: ] #1108406
05/03/11 04:23 PM
05/03/11 04:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
T
tournesoul Offline
Glider Guardian
tournesoul  Offline
Glider Guardian
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
Thank you for all that Brandi!! I am so glad he is seeing such a great vet!! I did know the vet was going out of his way for him etc... but I had just wondered how Simba let him... I guess it must help that you and Simba are bonded so tight!! He knows you trust him so he does as well, I guess?

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: ] #1108487
05/03/11 06:20 PM
05/03/11 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict
Usha77  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Originally Posted By: NavyChiefWife
Originally Posted By: vagraphix
Brandi can you bring that vet back with you this summer?


I begged him to come but for some reason he just wont do it. Darn! At least he talks to Dr.Brinker in VA so we know Dr.Brinker can call him any time for advice if he needs to. They are both good vets!
I still think we should take over Texas and move all of the glider owners there along with all of the good vets! grin


I am in!! grin Love TX!

So glad Simba is feeling better. Prayers continuing from here! hug2


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108515
05/03/11 07:34 PM
05/03/11 07:34 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Tx is big enough for all of us, COME ON DOWN..

Simba your doin good buddy, dont stop now!!!


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: Cora] #1108516
05/03/11 07:41 PM
05/03/11 07:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 539
Capital Region, NY USA
Gemini67 Offline
Glider Lover
Gemini67  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 539
Capital Region, NY USA
Simba, you are the bravest, strongest little boy! Happy HAppy HAPpy HAPPy HAPPY jump that you're doing better and better!


Darby

~ Lucky to have rescued all of my :grey: "silly goosies" and my kitties Jani Rose and Artie-Choke
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108527
05/03/11 08:12 PM
05/03/11 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,082
Hampton, Virginia
vagraphix Offline
Glider Addict
vagraphix  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,082
Hampton, Virginia
yay Simba...keep getting stonger


Debra
Two sons in the U.S. Army
Slaves to:
Mikki, Loki & Thor
dogs: Morgan & Isabella
Bunnies Bob & TMan
gangel RIP Wellington, Minnie & Dazzle bunny, Willow July 6 2013, Squirtle 7-24-09, Maggie May 12-14-10

Licensed wildlife rehabilitator - Cottontail Rabbits & Squirrels
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108535
05/03/11 08:36 PM
05/03/11 08:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Hey everyone! Guess what! Brandi's vet called and said she could pick Simba up and bring him home tonight! He's doing well and he felt that being back home with Brandi would be a good thing for him.

Now, he can't have any family visitation because he doesn't want him to get too excited but he can at least cuddle with Brandi for the night.

Needless to say, she's on her way there to get him!! clap

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108537
05/03/11 08:41 PM
05/03/11 08:41 PM

N
NavyYN
Unregistered
NavyYN
Unregistered
N



Yaaaaayyyy!!!

This is wonderful news.

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108545
05/03/11 08:59 PM
05/03/11 08:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
GliderGuy540 Offline
Glider Lover
GliderGuy540  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Hey everyone! Guess what! Brandi's vet called and said she could pick Simba up and bring him home tonight! He's doing well and he felt that being back home with Brandi would be a good thing for him.

Now, he can't have any family visitation because he doesn't want him to get too excited but he can at least cuddle with Brandi for the night.

Needless to say, she's on her way there to get him!! clap


So glad to hear this!!


--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108550
05/03/11 09:02 PM
05/03/11 09:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
WOOT WOOT!!!!! dance dance That is such SPECTACULAR NEWS!!!! (oh gee, I feel like I'm gonna start leaking again!!! cry all HAPPY tears!!)

I'm gonna add that Dr. Pat is ONE FANTASTIC vet and definitely one in a MILLION! mlove Do I HAVE to move to Florida to be a client of his? tant I literally WILT in the heat of summertime, and the bugs and other creepy-crawlies that live down there....NUH UH!!! Guess I'll have to just keep on keepin' on with what I got to work with.

Enjoy your evening with your special little man, Brandi! mlove mlove hug2


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108553
05/03/11 09:08 PM
05/03/11 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 123
Topeka, Ks
sugmama77 Offline
Joey Member
sugmama77  Offline
Joey Member

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 123
Topeka, Ks
Does the little man have to go back to the vets in the morning or does he finally get to stay home? Im busting at the seams with happiness that Simba gets to go home!!! You go little buddy!!! The power of prayer is so strong and Simba is proof of that.


Angela
Mom of Gizmo, Daisy, Roo, Paco and Flurry
:grey: :grey: :grey: :grey: :leu:
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: sugmama77] #1108568
05/03/11 09:30 PM
05/03/11 09:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 429
Cincinnati, Ohio
Faerie Offline
Glider Lover
Faerie  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 429
Cincinnati, Ohio
I am soooooo happy!!


~Michelle~

wife, mom to 3 teens and 1 adult,

and slave to my 8 gliders

Skeeter, Luna, Rocky, Patches, Sweetie, Big Sissy, Little Buddha, and Nikko
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108586
05/03/11 09:48 PM
05/03/11 09:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
just dont stop praying folks, this little glider is not out of the woods yet! COME ON SIMBA!!!!


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108587
05/03/11 09:51 PM
05/03/11 09:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict
Usha77  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
So happy to hear he's coming home! Still praying!


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108597
05/03/11 10:01 PM
05/03/11 10:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
Woohoo! That means he's MUCH better!!!!


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: suggiemom1980] #1108606
05/03/11 10:08 PM
05/03/11 10:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
Glider Addict
tbull  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
dance jump dance


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108645
05/03/11 11:06 PM
05/03/11 11:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 316
southern Ct
Nora Offline
Glider Explorer
Nora  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 316
southern Ct
Yeah Simba....Brandi..so glad Simba gets to come home tonight! Still praying he continues to get stronger every day! dance clap clap


Sharon

Mom to:
Zeva :grey: & Zoey :grey:

Cooper- Our wonderful Bichon!


Daughters, Lauren & Jennifer(all grown up)
Hubby & best friend, Paul heart
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108676
05/03/11 11:46 PM
05/03/11 11:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
T
tournesoul Offline
Glider Guardian
tournesoul  Offline
Glider Guardian
T

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 772
usa
grin party grin hooray!!! SUCH good news!! grin party grin

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108681
05/03/11 11:53 PM
05/03/11 11:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
Glider Slave
kjgoulet  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
Amazing news! Glad to hear he gets to go home to his mom laugh Keep up the good work Simba, in no time you'll get to see your girls!


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108703
05/04/11 01:43 AM
05/04/11 01:43 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
dance Wonderful news! dance


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: DCMuffin] #1108705
05/04/11 01:55 AM
05/04/11 01:55 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



dance

Re: Penis Problem Please Help! - Part Four [Re: ] #1108739
05/04/11 07:34 AM
05/04/11 07:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 539
Capital Region, NY USA
Gemini67 Offline
Glider Lover
Gemini67  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 539
Capital Region, NY USA
mloveFantastic news! How awesome to have Simba home with you again! Keep healing little guy! You're doing SOOOO well!


Darby

~ Lucky to have rescued all of my :grey: "silly goosies" and my kitties Jani Rose and Artie-Choke
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Happy 4th Of July 2020
by KarenE. 07/04/20 10:16 AM
What should i do with my gliders?
by Tamxie. 06/29/20 10:14 AM
Nectar
by royb. 06/25/20 06:40 PM
So excited to start anew!
by JadedKitteh. 06/25/20 01:05 AM
It's Party Time
by KarenE. 06/18/20 10:15 AM
stopping by to say hi.
by Dancing. 06/16/20 12:01 AM
My wife passed, now it's my turn....
by THECATMAC. 06/15/20 09:17 PM
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