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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014457
10/07/10 08:35 PM
10/07/10 08:35 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
G
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis
gliderma  Offline
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
I guess I'm confused then too. I thought sterile lines meant that the males were indeed sterile. The fact that my mosaic male is producing offspring would mean that he is not from a sterile line. I sure would like to be enlightened as to what makes a line sterile?


Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014477
10/07/10 09:20 PM
10/07/10 09:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
The fact that my mosaic male is producing offspring would mean that he is not from a sterile line.


Just because you have a male that can produce, does not mean he is not from sterile lines, it means HE is not sterile. He can still come from a grandmother who produced sterile males. And it is possible for him to produce sterile offspring. A non sterile male from sterile lines would be considered (and commonly referred to) as being from a producing sterile line.

Since the females are not sterile, they can produce. It seems that by breeding out far enough, the sterility is being bred out but it has not been far enough to consider it a "non issue" anymore. And no, I don't have a clue how far out that would need to be. So, if your glider is from one of the "sterile lines" you need to be aware that the sterility COULD pop up again in either your joeys or their offspring or grandoffspring.

If you sell any of the joeys from sterile lines, you need to make sure the buyer knows they are from sterile lines.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: Dancing] #1014590
10/08/10 07:12 AM
10/08/10 07:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
Quote:
So, if your glider is from one of the "sterile lines" you need to be aware that the sterility COULD pop up again in either your joeys or their offspring or grandoffspring.


I live by this statement. It 'could' happen again later on.

While all of Astrid's boys that have not been neutered have proven not to be sterile. All of their offsprings are in a pet only home (Mary and Nancy) so there have never breen breed out again. And the boys who were neutered, vet said in his opinion there was no way they were sterile.

But what I wonder/only because I don't know. Can anyone show a lineage where sterility appears to be beed out (like Astrid's) but then later sterility pops up again. We always say it can happen but I have not been shown any lineage showing it. I'd love to see one.

I agree that if they came from a sterile line even if now producing, the buyer should be told that. How far back to we inform. on? 3 generations, 5, 6? I don't know.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014624
10/08/10 09:59 AM
10/08/10 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i also wonder if the sterility in the line that is bred out has come back with male joeys that are sterile.
if there are no lines to show this i then would assume the sterility would not come back.
i know of a breeder that has 9 generations out from sterility and is going to prove out 10 generations. so i am of the thinking it does not come back (as long as their is no inbreeding, of course).

regards,
nancy in detroit/fl


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: hwh4ev] #1014646
10/08/10 11:00 AM
10/08/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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wildlifeangel  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: hwh4ev

i know of a breeder that has 9 generations out from sterility and is going to prove out 10 generations. so i am of the thinking it does not come back (as long as their is no inbreeding, of course).
nancy in detroit/fl


That is exactly the point. When sterile lines are bred to leu/creamino/albino, the recessive colors are always eventually inbred to produce the colors... not closely, but if there IS something in the genetics of sterile lines, then the possibility of it coming back in the recessive colors is quite high if the sterile lines are bred to recessive colors. The history needs to be known, especially as we do not conclusively know exactly how the sterility works.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014684
10/08/10 12:51 PM
10/08/10 12:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Where does any of this help us though when a glider now only goes back TWO generations and the grandmother has ZERO lineage? (after being told the line went back 6 generations with no "inbreeding" and no lines with my male)

Doesn't this make the COI's that were originally told to now be FALSE?


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014700
10/08/10 01:14 PM
10/08/10 01:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
"but if there is something in the genetics of sterile lines"
with that quote i still would assume all these gliders that are breeding from sterile lines and not producing any sterility in the male joeys will continue on down the line without sterility. because if there were something in the genes it surely would of shown up by now.

regards,
nancy in detroit/fl
p.s. if there is no lineage on a glider it will show a 0 coi as there is no information for it to calculate.

Last edited by hwh4ev; 10/08/10 01:25 PM.

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: hwh4ev] #1014766
10/08/10 03:24 PM
10/08/10 03:24 PM

T
The_Pet_Glider
Unregistered
The_Pet_Glider
Unregistered
T



Hello everyone. I thought Iíd try to clear some of this up. First I absolutely believe sterility can be bred out. When a female from a sterile line is bred to new blood, sterility begins to disappear quickly. Within a generation or two of breeding out, some or most of the boys will develop. We donít know any absolutes or how this works but nature goes to work and little boys start producing again.

I have gone into the pedigree program and noted sterility to the original gliders that were inbred by their former owner. I hope this helps everyone.

The formerly sterile lines are some of the prettiest and most unique colorings I have seen. It would be ashamed to let these beautiful lines die out because we donít understand exactly when the sterility is 100% bred out.

I feel compelled to share with all of you the emails where I disclosed sterility to the two people in question. You can judge for yourself if you think they were informed when they made their decision to purchase their little gliders. Each of them has received a copy of these emails and they are still posting about not knowing.

My email to one person: From: thepetglider@thepetglider.com
> To:
> Subject: RE: The Pet Glider: Sugar Gliders For Adoption: Mosiacs
> Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 12:28:42 -0500
>
> Hi A.,
>
> Her father is from a sterile line and obviously he is able to reproduce.
> However we don't know yet if his male offspring can reproduce since he's
> only having girls. This girl is another generation out so I think her boys
> have a good chance of reproducing. If you would like to be part of our
> research on breeding out sterility I will let you have her for $xxxx. The
> Jason female would be priced at $xxxx if we had completed our research on
> her line. We expect soon we will be able to call this new line a producing
> line. Females from sterile lines can always reproduce.
>
> I have females with less color that would be around $xxxx-xxxx if you are
> interested. The can still produce joey with lots of color.
>
> Priscilla

My email to B.: From: The Pet Glider <thepetglider@thepetglider.com>
To:
Date: May 20 2009 - 7:29pm
Hey B.,

There are no common ancestors until the 6th generation on Mollyís girl, which is great! This is a formerly sterile line. Molly has a sister Jalo who throws producing boys. One of the boys is Jason. Jason is Mollyís nephew and is an excellent producer. So you should have all producing boys. I love the sterile lines, the colors are just beautiful. We have bred most of them out to producing now. We have a shortage of sterile male. Lots of people want the sterile males because they get the color without having to pay the higher prices. Unfortunately we are not getting very many anymore.

I registered the little girl, here is her pedigree:

Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/images/male.gifHYPERLINK "http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/dog.php?id=2037"Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

OOP Date : 2008/12/22
Color : Mosaic/Pinto
Genetics :
Remarks :
Priscilla
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨----------------------------------------------
I had sold M--- R--- as pet only. When B. said she wanted one baby from her but didnít care if they bred I thought I was being nice by letting her breed for one baby to keep.
Here is B.ís comment to me about breeding a pet only mosaic:
I don't breed, my males are neutered. I bought Hammy (Abraham) from Rebecca

last December on a payment plan. (he is fully paid) I decided I would like

to find him a mosaic wife. (like he would know the difference..lol) I

would like to see if they will have a baby, if not fine...if anything goes

"wrong", he would be neutered. Him and his wife will always be here with

me.


I am sorry for the misunderstanding between A., B. and myself. I feel that I adequately disclosed the gliders genetic past.

I have edited this post to remove the names.

Sincerely,
Priscilla Price
The Pet Glider
713-213-2020

Last edited by The_Pet_Glider; 10/08/10 03:36 PM.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014775
10/08/10 03:49 PM
10/08/10 03:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Originally Posted By: The_Pet_Glider


My email to Bridget: From: The Pet Glider <thepetglider@thepetglider.com>
To: virginiabound <virginiabound@insightbb.com>
Date: May 20 2009 - 7:29pm
Hey Bridget,

There are no common ancestors until the 6th generation on Mollyís girl, which is great! This is a formerly sterile line. Molly has a sister Jalo who throws producing boys. One of the boys is Jason. Jason is Mollyís nephew and is an excellent producer. So you should have all producing boys. I love the sterile lines, the colors are just beautiful. We have bred most of them out to producing now. We have a shortage of sterile male. Lots of people want the sterile males because they get the color without having to pay the higher prices. Unfortunately we are not getting very many anymore.

Priscilla, I was looking at SEVERAL of your girls for almost a YEAR. Mary was the best match according to you. There are many more emails that I will have access to as soon as a part for my computer comes in. I told you I wanted to have ONE breeding pair! I sent you emails when the joeys were born and pictures of them! I knew NOTHING about any of this until I got a phone call the other night. The email you have here is from MAY, 2009. I did not get Mary until MONTHS later.

WHERE does Mary go back SIX generations NOW?? Her lineage only shows her to her grandmother who has NO lineage only as of a FEW NIGHTS AGO!


I registered the little girl, here is her pedigree:

Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/images/male.gifHYPERLINK "http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/dog.php?id=2037"Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

This does not work.

OOP Date : 2008/12/22
Color : Mosaic/Pinto
Genetics :
Remarks :
Priscilla
¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨¨----------------------------------------------
I had sold Mary Rose as pet only. When Bridget said she wanted one baby from her but didnít care if they bred I thought I was being nice by letting her breed for one baby to keep.
Here is Bridgetís comment to me about breeding a pet only mosaic:

Priscilla, you are mixing emails from looking at different gliders!

ALSO, I told you about Grace and how I was not into breeding because I was scared of rejection or anything that might go wrong. You suggested maybe I should look at a "cheaper" glider and to just have a mosaic and Leu (my only colored gliders) with my male being neutered.

I decided I wanted to try breeding with one pair, if they had HETS, to buy more unrelated HETS (since that would have been cheaper than buying the breeding colors to begin with) to eventually have THREE breeding pairs.

Mary was NEVER a PET ONLY or supposed to be from a Sterile line!!

I said what I did about ANY of the gliders we were looking at for Abraham that in the case of REJECTION or any problems that I would just get Abraham neutered. IN other words, that I would ALWAYS keep them together no matter what and my "try" at breeding would end at that point as I WILL NOT seperate a bonded pair!

I also said that IF they had babies I might end up keeping them because I am bad at letting joeys go! THAT is what I said!


I don't breed, my males are neutered. I bought Hammy (Abraham) from Rebecca

last December on a payment plan. (he is fully paid) I decided I would like

to find him a mosaic wife. (like he would know the difference..lol) I

would like to see if they will have a baby, if not fine...if anything goes

"wrong", he would be neutered. Him and his wife will always be here with

me.

See what I just wrote above.


I am sorry for the misunderstanding between Angie, Bridget and myself. I feel that I adequately disclosed the gliders genetic past.

Priscilla, this is NOT a misunderstanding!! Me and Angie are also NOT the ONLY ones having these issues either!Sincerely,
Priscilla Price
The Pet Glider
713-213-2020


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: queenduck] #1014791
10/08/10 04:31 PM
10/08/10 04:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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jacknsally  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: queenduck
Can anyone show a lineage where sterility appears to be beed out (like Astrid's) but then later sterility pops up again.


I have asked for this several times & no one has answered- people just keep saying it "could".

I've given the example with the cystic fibrosis trait and it not possible of showing up again but still nothing. If sterility is due to a mutation in the chromosome, a glider who is not sterile, shouldn't have that mutation, so how would they pass it along and having it show up again?


—ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014799
10/08/10 04:58 PM
10/08/10 04:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
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H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
peronally i believe that if you take a glider from sterile producing lines and find a mate without the same ancestors they will produce and continue to produce non sterile males.
i dont think it could pop up some where with this breeding or other breeding pairs because it would of shown up already.
so i do disagree with the statements 'that it could come out again'.

now having said this, it is up to the breeder and buyer to make sure of what they are buying and to check the lineage as far back as possible.

with all that is coming out including the joeys with the
bouncy problem, i forgot the name of it, you best believe when i buy my mosaic i will know everything abt. it or i didnt do my homework.

regards,
nancy in detroit for now


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #1014802
10/08/10 05:02 PM
10/08/10 05:02 PM

T
The_Pet_Glider
Unregistered
The_Pet_Glider
Unregistered
T



Bridget,

This is why I don't post. But it is hard to see you and another person posting that you had no prior knowledge of sterility when you were both informed. I posted the emails showing that you did know. Those are the facts. It is disappointing to see you trying to twist the facts.

If anyone wants to PM or call me I will be glad to discuss the detail. I just wanted the facts to be presented and I have done that.

Priscilla

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014828
10/08/10 05:51 PM
10/08/10 05:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
As I suspected, Priscilla did inform of the possible sterility in the lines. I have bought several of Priscilla's gliders, contacted her about others (including Astrid's line) and she has always been very helpful. I bought Astrid from someone else, Priscilla was no way responsible for filling in the blanks for me/additional information that was helpful but not needed, but she still took time out to update me on Astrid's relatives she has there.

breeders do need to take the responsiblity of informing buyers that their was or may be sterility in the lines, and often there is a lower price set on these mosaics, or they are sold with provisions in case they are unable to breed.

But buyers who plan on breeding also need to take responsiblity of checking the lines, having others look into the lineage for you in case you are uncertain of what you are looking for.

We all have to be careful when it comes to breeding, selling, and buying if we want to keep the best interest of these gliders above the best interest of our pocketbooks or potention sale of joeys.

Nancy, I see it all the time... 'It can pop back up' and I too have asked before and never been provided a link or a gliders name that popped up sterile after a few generations. So I'll keep watching for someone to show why they think this is possible.

Until then I'll just keep saying... it could pop back up.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014830
10/08/10 05:58 PM
10/08/10 05:58 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Originally Posted By: The_Pet_Glider
Bridget,

This is why I don't post. But it is hard to see you and another person posting that you had no prior knowledge of sterility when you were both informed. I posted the emails showing that you did know. Those are the facts. It is disappointing to see you trying to twist the facts.

If anyone wants to PM or call me I will be glad to discuss the detail. I just wanted the facts to be presented and I have done that.


There is SEVERAL of us with the same issue, not just two!

The emails you put on here were NOT ABOUT MARY! There were MANY MANY emails concerning MANY different females over the course of many MONTHS! I have not twisted ANY facts!


Priscilla


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014834
10/08/10 06:12 PM
10/08/10 06:12 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Happy Birthday Obsolescenttears  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Well you havent shown any facts just accusations and yelling. Calm down - be mature about this please.
I think Priscilla managed to come her calmly and state her side, posted proof, and didnt manage to yell at anyone.... I would think someone who is on forums a lot more than her would have the ability to retain some calm dignity.

If this is true start listing facts/proof dont pick apart everything she posted and just post random statements. Your going to get this bloody thread locked with your attitude.

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014848
10/08/10 06:49 PM
10/08/10 06:49 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
And just what facts is that? Priscilla did not even want a contract. "I" ASKED!

Okay, how's this for a FACT???

Mary Rose Charlotte was $2,600.00! Is THAT a "pet price non breeding glider"?????

As far as I am concerned at this point, the people that brought all this up and is so upset about it and got ME upset must have had some kind of motive as NONE of this makes sense. Until any of them make their prescence known, I won't be back on this thread.

No one can even agree as to whether the Leucistic lines are/was or is being "tainted" by introducing sterile lines into them.

Since a breeder doesn't care about lineage and the fact that her records are not and have not been straight for years whether through their own fault or not, how can WE be told what is right or wrong for OUR gliders?

Priscilla, you have bred many gliders with no lineage. So does this make it alright for the rest of the community? I think not. I would NEVER had even looked at colored gliders if I'd known the things I do now!

We always tell people DO NOT BREED without lineage!

Where is my Mary's lineage now? Why has it been changed to only show to her grandma who has NO lineage? Where did Lollie come from? Was Lollie pregnant with Molly when she was "wild caught"?

It's heartbreaking that gliders were brought over to the U.S for the sole purpose of profit. They are animals for God sake, not toys made of wood!

The Leucistic, mosaics and all other colors are solid unless there is close inbreeding in the lines. These lines have been inbred from the very beginning to get a lot of the colors we see. So what has changed apparently? Nothing.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: Obsolescenttears] #1014849
10/08/10 06:55 PM
10/08/10 06:55 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Originally Posted By: Obsolescenttears
Well you havent shown any facts just accusations and yelling. Calm down - be mature about this please.
I think Priscilla managed to come her calmly and state her side, posted proof, and didnt manage to yell at anyone.... I would think someone who is on forums a lot more than her would have the ability to retain some calm dignity.

Of course.

If this is true start listing facts/proof dont pick apart everything she posted and just post random statements. Pick apart? She has "picked" emails from 1 1/2 yrs ago that has NOTHING to do with any of this! Of course, I am going to defend myself against such garbage! Your going to get this bloody thread locked with your attitude.


Darn right I have an attitude! I was LIED to, blantantly LIED to and am getting more lies on top of it!


Tell you what Priscilla, you want the last word? You can have it! The damage you have caused has already been done.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014852
10/08/10 06:58 PM
10/08/10 06:58 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Please calm down. Your ranting is doing no good.

It is a well-established fact that the mosaics that Priscilla got came from original sources and priscilla started keeping their lineages when there was none recorded prior to that.

Lolli was on the list of the original sterile line mosaics that came from Helen Moreno. There is no prior records because the "prarie dogs ate the records" of the sterile-line mosaics.

Can you produce any documentation about the price you paid? Or anything about your glider that Priscilla sent you?


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #1014864
10/08/10 07:20 PM
10/08/10 07:20 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Happy Birthday Obsolescenttears  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
And just what facts is that? Priscilla did not even want a contract. "I" ASKED!

Yeah, she doesnt do contracts - her choice, her gliders, her business, a lot of people dont do contracts. I havent signed a single contract with Priscilla and I have gotten several gliders from her... not sure how this is some horrible thing...
Okay, how's this for a FACT???

Mary Rose Charlotte was $2,600.00! Is THAT a "pet price non breeding glider"?????

Thats Priscillas price, you have a problem with it take it up with her privatly, airing it here has no place. And how long ago did you get that glider? Many gliders were 3K plus for Mo's even 6mo ago, so perhaps that was pet only price.

As far as I am concerned at this point, the people that brought all this up and is so upset about it and got ME upset must have had some kind of motive as NONE of this makes sense. Until any of them make their prescence known, I won't be back on this thread.

Good because your doing nothing to help this thread acting like this.

No one can even agree as to whether the Leucistic lines are/was or is being "tainted" by introducing sterile lines into them.

Since a breeder doesn't care about lineage and the fact that her records are not and have not been straight for years whether through their own fault or not, how can WE be told what is right or wrong for OUR gliders?

breeders care about lineage, and so does Priscilla, but things are big picture to her - and within the small community we feel things are different. Its her viewpoint. You have a problem with it thats your choice, but you cant do anything about it, and she DOES CARE, and frankly your accusations are immature.

You really need to see the big picture, you refuse to - thats your choice, im not going to speak logic to someone who isnt willing to listen.
Priscilla, you have bred many gliders with no lineage. So does this make it alright for the rest of the community? I think not. I would NEVER had even looked at colored gliders if I'd known the things I do now!

Well glad you know, now, make choices/changes based on things you see/hear that you dont like.

We always tell people DO NOT BREED without lineage!

Where is my Mary's lineage now? Why has it been changed to only show to her grandma who has NO lineage? Where did Lollie come from? Was Lollie pregnant with Molly when she was "wild caught"?

It's heartbreaking that gliders were brought over to the U.S for the sole purpose of profit. They are animals for God sake, not toys made of wood!

I agree completely, but SHOCKER gliders came over here in the beigining just for profit, you wouldnt have gliders if they hadnt, and we need new gliders to come over for new blood. Its the way of any industry, any animal breeding system, importation is a fact of life - and again this isnt the topic of this thread.

The Leucistic, mosaics and all other colors are solid unless there is close inbreeding in the lines. These lines have been inbred from the very beginning to get a lot of the colors we see. So what has changed apparently? Nothing.




Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014865
10/08/10 07:20 PM
10/08/10 07:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
Bridget, I said price could reflect it coming from a sterile line. If it is a male and that line has not proven out to be now producing, you will always find the price lower with a few exceptions. I can name one glider who was bought from P for $2500 and very sterile, known to be sterile, his price was based on his color. This was several years ago.

I know of another male neutered and bought as a pet only just last year for $2500. And I have a female that was bought for pet only also for several thousands. Sometimes you are paying for breeding, sometimes you are paying for rarity. Sometimes both.

Sterile line females will always produce but often their price is also seriously reduced.

I paid $3700 for Astrid several years ago. She is very unique, very pretty, and I had no promise her boys would produce. I was told her boys 'might' produce. I paid that price for her because she was the dream glider I wanted, not for what she would produce. I have been very careful with her line, but that is my own personal choice. To each their own. Astrid's mom is from the Kitty line, she was paired to a leu. Not my choice and not something I would have done. However, we each have our own opinion. I have chosen to pair her, and her few offspring, with NO leu in the lines. But there are others that have done it. Priscilla is not the only one that would suggest a pairing like that, there are others who would have.

As for when you got your emails and when you received your glider... that proves nothing. There are many people who pay on a glider for quite sometime (deposit/downpayment) before they actually recive their joey. This is not an uncommon practice.

You have said you were not exactly sure of what you were looking for/lineage and breeding. Did you share your possible pairing with friends who have simular beliefs, ideas of what she be breed to what?

What I choose to pair my gliders with are different than what Priscilla might, but they are also different than what Adri might. The advise you get from a breeder is only their opinion. They can't possible have all the same beliefs as you. It often best to share lineage with friends before you choose a future mate.

People should be buying gliders for pets first, breeding second. It should be the one you have to have, the look you want, that way you are never dissapointed if they don't produce what you want or never produce at all. You should be able to walk away happy once that joey is paid for knowing you may never produce a joey or a dime in return.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014867
10/08/10 07:26 PM
10/08/10 07:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
And, yes, Priscilla has breed gliders with no lineage. Most of us that have been around as long as I have (8 years) have all done it. Those before me most definantly did. That was the only way at the begining.

If it wasn't for those older, larger breeders (Judie, Sheila, Priscilla) who actually thought... Hey, maybe we should keep trak of all this stuff.


Then our lineage wouldn't be as good as it is.

Did they make mistakes in doccumentation? Heck yes.

Did they make mistakes in breeding? Heck yes.

But prior to them no one even tried. At least they started the ball rolling, to now kick and scream and yell that they did it wrong, it not right. You have to start somewhere and it was them that started.

I thank them all for that. And I thank all of them who have sat on the phone with me, and in person, and gave me ideas of how to get started. I took all of their advice, some I used, some I didn't.

That is what makes us all different.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #1014874
10/08/10 07:56 PM
10/08/10 07:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms


Where is my Mary's lineage now? Why has it been changed to only show to her grandma who has NO lineage? Where did Lollie come from? Was Lollie pregnant with Molly when she was "wild caught"?



It doesn't look any different than a few days ago. What do you records of Mary's lineage say? Or do you not keep a copy for yourself & rely on the psg database?

Mistakes happen- Did Priscilla purposely lie to you on the line having sterile in it's history, I highly doubt it. That wouldn't help breed out the line. There would be nothing for her to gain in a lie, I highly doubt the loss of your sale would have had any effect on her.

Now you know and it's time to move forward. Can you still be upset, some would say yes, but it's not getting anyone anywhere. Ranting/raving & pointing fingers isn't changing anything. There's quite a bit to learn from this experience and I'm sure others have also.

Go and enjoy your gliders for what they should be- your pets.


—ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: queenduck] #1014880
10/08/10 08:05 PM
10/08/10 08:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
Bridget, it is clear that Priscilla was talking to you about one of Molly's girls in her email. Even if it wasn't your Mary Rose Charloette, it was an offspring of Molly so that glider has the exact same lineage of the girl you eventually did buy, so I assume she is speaking of your Mary Rose Charloette. Also right before providing you lineage on the glider she is obviously speaking of, she lists her parents... Molly/Rome. So this little girl she is listing, has the same parents of Mary Rose Charloette.

The reson her link she provided you with full lineage does not work now, is because she must have coppied your old email. That link no longer works because once you registered her as Mary Rose Charloette, and no longer as joey from Molly/Rome, she would have removed the old lineage. She didn't provide a bad link, she provided a link that no longer works because you went in and added MRC yourself.

Quote:
My email to B.: From: The Pet Glider <thepetglider@thepetglider.com>
To:
Date: May 20 2009 - 7:29pm
Hey B.,

There are no common ancestors until the 6th generation on Mollyís girl, which is great! This is a formerly sterile line. Molly has a sister Jalo who throws producing boys. One of the boys is Jason. Jason is Mollyís nephew and is an excellent producer. So you should have all producing boys. I love the sterile lines, the colors are just beautiful. We have bred most of them out to producing now. We have a shortage of sterile male. Lots of people want the sterile males because they get the color without having to pay the higher prices. Unfortunately we are not getting very many anymore.

I registered the little girl, here is her pedigree:

Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/images/male.gifHYPERLINK "http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/dog.php?id=2037"Rome/Molly - 12-22-08

OOP Date : 2008/12/22
Color : Mosaic/Pinto
Genetics :
Remarks :
Priscilla


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014907
10/08/10 08:40 PM
10/08/10 08:40 PM

J
JamieInWA
Unregistered
JamieInWA
Unregistered
J



Please keep rule 4 in mind when posting.

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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014989
10/08/10 10:35 PM
10/08/10 10:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
gliderdad79 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
gliderdad79  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 15,514
Long Island, NY
Just wanted to follow up to Jamie's rule 4. Next person that posts here that violates rule 4 and wants to start drama will have their account suspended.

This is a good topic, we don't need finger pointing, name calling, drama starting etc.


Eddie

In the Tropics somewhere between the port of indecision and southeast of disorder!

"Great people talk about ideas. Average people talk about things. Small people talk about other people."

One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure its worth watching!
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: gliderdad79] #1015087
10/09/10 08:06 AM
10/09/10 08:06 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
Quote:
And just what facts is that? Priscilla did not even want a contract. "I" ASKED!

Okay, how's this for a FACT???

Mary Rose Charlotte was $2,600.00! Is THAT a "pet price non breeding glider"?????



Opps, quoted wrong, the quotes were posted by Bridget.


Bridget, I keep thinking of that price you say you paid for Mary Rose.

What color is she exactly? Is there any way you can post a picture of her. I'd love to see what she looks like.

A few years ago the price was much higher for sterile line mosaic females, but last year it went down. I agree that $2600 does not sound quite right for her. Are you sure that was just for her, or did that include something else, shipping, etc. Like I said before, I've seen some really pretty mosaics go for higher than that and not be intended for breeding, but that doesn't really follow Priscilla's normal pricing range. But I'd have to see a picture of her to know for sure.

Quote:
As far as I am concerned at this point, the people that brought all this up and is so upset about it and got ME upset must have had some kind of motive as NONE of this makes sense. Until any of them make their prescence known, I won't be back on this thread.


I don't understand this at all. Not sure what you are talking about but it you are saying your not coming back until someone else comes back (I'm confused) that is a shame. This is a great topic and a lot can be learned about breeding, pairing, genetics here.

Quote:
No one can even agree as to whether the Leucistic lines are/was or is being "tainted" by introducing sterile lines into them.


Lots of us can agree on this Bridget. This case is not the first case of a sterile line mosaic to be mixed into the lue line. Some of the leu lines were crossed and leus were the result. I can not remember who it was but I am sure someone will come in here and tell us. It was either Jennifer Bender, Stacie or Helen. DON'T SHOOT ME, I really can't remember.

And then with my Astrid her sterile line mosaic mother was paired to a leu. So Astrid is also 100% leu het.

I choose to keep the sterile line (I only have the 1) tightly regulated. Let me show you why..


Here are the joeys that have resluted from Mary Rose. Now, if the database is wrong, please correct me.



Buddy (Dustin) 2010/02/04 White Face 100% Het Leucistic

Cheryl Beth 2010/02/04 Classic Grey 100% Het Leucistic

DewDrop(Suggiemom1980) 2010/06/26 Mosaic/Pinto het for leustic

Lucy 2010/06/26 Mosaic/Pinto Mosaic Pinto/Platinum 100% Het Leucistic

Buddy is a wfb and leu het. So if he is able to produce, the line is prob. clear. If not, well then he will be sterile and can't pass anything on.

Cheryl Beth a classic gray and 100% leu het. So she will be able to produce if placed in a breeding situation (this one I would have placed in a pet only home). She not only has the chance to pass on the sterile line to a leu situation, but... also in a gray situation. So you could have a line of sterile line producing females that are gray or leu.


Dewdrop is a male mosaic, same as with Beuddy. He will eithor produce or he won't. If he produces than the line is probably good, if not, end of that line.

Lucy, a mosaic female. She has the same chance of producing gray, leus if paired with a leu het, or mosaics. So same chances of making a sterile line of lues and grays and now mosaics as Cheryl Beth. This one I also would have placed pet only.

But that is my opinion. Had someone contacted me about my opinion and pairings, that is what I would have told them.

But I know that othesr out there hate that I am breeding Astrid at all. Had you bought a sterile line mosaic female from me, I'd advise you to do what I do. And then this could be a post about me. People saying... what the heck, how could she have advised you of that?

In breeding you have to take the advice you get from a breeder and realize, that is the what that one breeder would do it, but it might not be something you want to do, might not be something that the 'community' wants you to do. Priscilla can only advise you and what 'she' would do. You ultimately have to make your own choice.

Personally, I would not panic. I would breed and handle Mary Rose's joeys just as I have with Astrid's joeys. But if you are uncomfortable with that, have her mate neutered. You have gotten mosaic joeys from her already, she has had the oppertunity to be a mother. Let her have the next set of joeys, neuter dad and any male joeys and have yourself one big happy family.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: queenduck] #1015302
10/09/10 04:42 PM
10/09/10 04:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: queenduck

Here are the joeys that have resluted from Mary Rose. Now, if the database is wrong, please correct me.



Buddy (Dustin) 2010/02/04 White Face 100% Het Leucistic

Cheryl Beth 2010/02/04 Classic Grey 100% Het Leucistic

DewDrop(Suggiemom1980) 2010/06/26 Mosaic/Pinto het for leustic

Lucy 2010/06/26 Mosaic/Pinto Mosaic Pinto/Platinum 100% Het Leucistic

Buddy is a wfb and leu het. So if he is able to produce, the line is prob. clear. If not, well then he will be sterile and can't pass anything on.

Cheryl Beth a classic gray and 100% leu het. So she will be able to produce if placed in a breeding situation (this one I would have placed in a pet only home). She not only has the chance to pass on the sterile line to a leu situation, but... also in a gray situation. So you could have a line of sterile line producing females that are gray or leu.


Dewdrop is a male mosaic, same as with Beuddy. He will eithor produce or he won't. If he produces than the line is probably good, if not, end of that line.

Lucy, a mosaic female. She has the same chance of producing gray, leus if paired with a leu het, or mosaics. So same chances of making a sterile line of lues and grays and now mosaics as Cheryl Beth. This one I also would have placed pet only.



Just as you did with Astrid's boys - she could also let the females go into very selected/trusted breeding situations to watch/monitor the sterile line issue. Just pair them with the thought that the sterility issue is there and don't taint and cross any lines. Answers to whether the sterility is being passed on or been bred out can be answered in just a couple male joeys from the females.

I don't see anything wrong with trying to breed out the sterility if done carefully & properly and it doesn't cause damage to any other lines.


—ancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1016969
10/13/10 07:29 AM
10/13/10 07:29 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
Iowa
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian
Lindsay  Offline
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Posts: 1,027
Iowa
Just as a quick question. What would you all charge for a pet only producing sterile line white mosaic with some platinum coloring on his back? I got him back in May this year so I am kind of looking for pricing as of that time.


Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: Lindsay] #1016993
10/13/10 08:22 AM
10/13/10 08:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 6,254
Kansas
queenduck Offline
Serious Glideritis
queenduck  Offline
Serious Glideritis

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Posts: 6,254
Kansas
Lindsay, it is subjective and up to each breeder. If it were me I'd have to know personality and see how white he is.


Alicia aka Queenduck, Bentley's Nana

We need role models who are going to break the mold ~ Carly Simon
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1017089
10/13/10 11:00 AM
10/13/10 11:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

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Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
I have Panda here and I wouldn't let him go to anyone at any price (except Gina if she gets to the point she wants him and Isis back and then I'll cry forever over loosing Isis again). But it isn't because of his coloring. It is 100% about his awesome playful, extremely well socialized and friendly personality.

I think that personality is worth more than coloring. I'll take the most common colored glider with the best temperment and personality over the most gorgous colored unsocial glider every time and be willing to pay more for it.


620-704-9109
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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